Interesting question posed by Smoak. If TCU had kept it within 25 points or so I'd say give me TCU's season.

But a historic 58 point drubbing on national TV with a huge audience.....that's gonna leave a mark. TCU's CFP semis win over B1G champ Michigan was very impressive....but I think all that most college football fans in the years ahead will remember is this epic beat down.

Would you rather have Baylor's 2021 season or TCU's 2022 season?

12-2, Big 12 Champs, Sugar Bowl Champs
VS.
13-2, CFP win, Natty appearance

Historic CFP berth and Michigan W made it TCU until now, but that beatdown has me curious.

— Craig Smoak (@CraigSmoak) January 10, 2023

That loss is the only thing ANYONE (tcu fans included) will remember.

We have the McPlay, a conference title, and a Sugar Bowl win over an sec favorite.

Give me Baylor 2021 all day every day!

Had you asked this question Monday, prior to the game….

2021. Don't want to live with that TCU embarassment.. like above poster said, that's what will be remembered.

Tcu basically the 1985 guymo NE patriots

"We just glad to be here"

"House money"

Shame

For now TCU given that TCU (1) saw a boost in recruiting that Baylor never saw and (2) beat a previously undefeated B1G champ. Those achievements are more valuable than winning the Big 12 and beating the #3 SEC team despite the loss to Georgia.

The Kevin Steele fumble return for a TD still pisses me off and that was just a regular game. This CFP loss will haunt TCU forever…..way worse than a meaningless fumble.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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For now TCU given that TCU (1) saw a boost in recruiting that Baylor never saw and (2) beat a previously undefeated B1G champ. Those achievements are more valuable than winning the Big 12 and beating the #3 SEC team despite the loss to Georgia.

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that's because TCU has a better recruiter, better organized NIL and they got the "cool" factor like we use to have. Monday May have changed that cool factor.

This kind of meaningless speculation is perfect for these forums: it's a silly question because you cannot turn back the clock. That said, of course I wouldn't change history if I could.

As for those recruiting benefits that TCU gained, I wonder how many new recruits will now have second thoughts. Despite beating Baylor repeatedly over the past several years, they have not been a good program. The truly amazing part about TCU in 2022 is that it was under a first year coach. I hope he cannot sustain that level of success. I would prefer they not even sniff the ccg for several years.

Ghostrider said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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For now TCU given that TCU (1) saw a boost in recruiting that Baylor never saw and (2) beat a previously undefeated B1G champ. Those achievements are more valuable than winning the Big 12 and beating the #3 SEC team despite the loss to Georgia.

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that's because TCU has a better recruiter, better organized NIL and they got the "cool" factor like we use to have. Monday May have changed that cool factor.

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Sure.

As a separate note, the premise of this thread is the question of whether a team is better off if it avoids the best teams in the nation, and that's regrettable because a team should strive to be the best and not take solace in pounding its chest for beating 2nd tier teams.

The OP presents an interesting question - not sure I know the answer. I will say it's hard to imagine how a program that won 13 games (including a CFP game) could go into the off season feeling any crappier about themselves that TCU probably does.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Ghostrider said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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For now TCU given that TCU (1) saw a boost in recruiting that Baylor never saw and (2) beat a previously undefeated B1G champ. Those achievements are more valuable than winning the Big 12 and beating the #3 SEC team despite the loss to Georgia.

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that's because TCU has a better recruiter, better organized NIL and they got the "cool" factor like we use to have. Monday May have changed that cool factor.

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Sure.

As a separate note, the premise of this thread is the question of whether a team is better off if it avoids the best teams in the nation, and that's regrettable because a team should strive to be the best and not take solace in pounding its chest for beating 2nd tier teams.

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That's the Baylor way.

I've never seen a fan base that revels more in beating up dregs. It's very fitting that our greatest era in program history was built on avoiding real competition in nonconference play, feasting on down Big 12 rosters and losing major bowl games.

TCU is lucky they are expanding the playoffs as they would never get in a 4 team playoff system again unless undefeated and they had no choice but to put them in over 2 loss teams.

JustWinBears said:

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TCU is lucky they are expanding the playoffs as they would never get in a 4 team playoff system again unless undefeated and they had no choice but to put them in over 2 loss teams.

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Beat downs can happen. TCU did beat the B10 champ in the play off to get to that game. The game did nothing to keep TCU out in the future. ND has been beat down on that stage in the CFP era and so has Bama so has Ohio State. Not as badly as TCU but TCU isn't the first to get embarrassed by losing by at least several TDs.

Baylor 2021. We have two pieces of hardware/trophies to present.

TCU has the Fiesta bowl trophy for winning their playoff game and a participation banner for playing in the national championship/calling themselves the runner up but like UCF's national championship it doesn't matter like winning hardware.

Ghostrider said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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For now TCU given that TCU (1) saw a boost in recruiting that Baylor never saw and (2) beat a previously undefeated B1G champ. Those achievements are more valuable than winning the Big 12 and beating the #3 SEC team despite the loss to Georgia.

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that's because TCU has a better recruiter, better organized NIL and they got the "cool" factor like we use to have. Monday May have changed that cool factor.

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They also don't try to pay every single athlete on campus with NIL like we appear to be doing....

historian said:

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This kind of meaningless speculation is perfect for these forums: it's a silly question because you cannot turn back the clock. That said, of course I wouldn't change history if I could.

As for those recruiting benefits that TCU gained, I wonder how many new recruits will now have second thoughts. Despite beating Baylor repeatedly over the past several years, they have not been a good program. The truly amazing part about TCU in 2022 is that it was under a first year coach. I hope he cannot sustain that level of success. I would prefer they not even sniff the ccg for several years.

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It may affect some recruits in the 2024 class but those that have already signed won't jump ship because of this. All the players they have gotten in the portal won't opt out and enter again because of this. So the benefits will be there for at least next season. Then we will have to see after the season if the recruiting bump goes away. But then there will be the discussion of how next season goes and if that impacts recruiting.

PartyBear said:

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JustWinBears said:

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TCU is lucky they are expanding the playoffs as they would never get in a 4 team playoff system again unless undefeated and they had no choice but to put them in over 2 loss teams.

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Beat downs can happen. TCU did beat the B10 champ in the play off to get to that game. The game did nothing to keep TCU out in the future. ND has been beat down on that stage in the CFP era and so has Bama so has Ohio State. Not as badly as TCU but TCU isn't the first to get embarrassed by losing by at least several TDs.

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No one has ever in the history of bowl games lost one worse than TCU did last night. That won't be forgotten easily.

If TCU had lost by 17-21 points, no one would have even batted an eye. The talk would have been about how good Georgia is and everyone would have moved on quickly. But getting beat the way TCU did last night flips the narrative to how bad they were and forces people to look more critically at the conference they just went undefeated through until the championship game.

This was a really bad night for the Big 12, which looks like and is being treated as a joke today.

PartyBear said:

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JustWinBears said:

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TCU is lucky they are expanding the playoffs as they would never get in a 4 team playoff system again unless undefeated and they had no choice but to put them in over 2 loss teams.

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Beat downs can happen. TCU did beat the B10 champ in the play off to get to that game. The game did nothing to keep TCU out in the future. ND has been beat down on that stage in the CFP era and so has Bama so has Ohio State. Not as badly as TCU but TCU isn't the first to get embarrassed by losing by at least several TDs.

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ND, Bama, and OSU are all blue bloods. They can get the benefit of the doubt of an off night or not being ready or whatever.

TCU isn't a blueblood and is from a conference that is already looked down upon and thought of as a conference where no one plays defense. For them to go and suffer the biggest loss in bowl history only reinforces what outsiders already felt about the B12.

Fair or unfair....not many will give them their due for knocking off the B1G champ because of how lopsided last night was.

So what about memes. Texas and OU leaving was not the apocalypse, TCU not winning the national title game sure as hell isn't.

boognish_bear said:

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PartyBear said:

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JustWinBears said:

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TCU is lucky they are expanding the playoffs as they would never get in a 4 team playoff system again unless undefeated and they had no choice but to put them in over 2 loss teams.

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Beat downs can happen. TCU did beat the B10 champ in the play off to get to that game. The game did nothing to keep TCU out in the future. ND has been beat down on that stage in the CFP era and so has Bama so has Ohio State. Not as badly as TCU but TCU isn't the first to get embarrassed by losing by at least several TDs.

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ND, Bama, and OSU are all blue bloods. They can get the benefit of the doubt of an off night or not being ready or whatever.

TCU isn't a blueblood and is from a conference that is already looked down upon and thought of as a conference where no one plays defense. For them to go and suffer the biggest loss in bowl history only reinforces what outsiders already felt about the B12.

Fair or unfair....not many will give them their due for knocking of the B1G champ because of how lopsided last night was.

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And we're not talking about equals here anyway. TCU didn't just get blown out. They got blown out worse than any bowl participant in history.

Kevin Steele, the worst head coach in P5 football history, only had three losses on that level in a Baylor tenure filled with blowout losses.

This wasn't your run of the mill blowout. This was a humiliation of historic proportions.

bear2be2 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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PartyBear said:

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JustWinBears said:

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TCU is lucky they are expanding the playoffs as they would never get in a 4 team playoff system again unless undefeated and they had no choice but to put them in over 2 loss teams.

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Beat downs can happen. TCU did beat the B10 champ in the play off to get to that game. The game did nothing to keep TCU out in the future. ND has been beat down on that stage in the CFP era and so has Bama so has Ohio State. Not as badly as TCU but TCU isn't the first to get embarrassed by losing by at least several TDs.

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ND, Bama, and OSU are all blue bloods. They can get the benefit of the doubt of an off night or not being ready or whatever.

TCU isn't a blueblood and is from a conference that is already looked down upon and thought of as a conference where no one plays defense. For them to go and suffer the biggest loss in bowl history only reinforces what outsiders already felt about the B12.

Fair or unfair....not many will give them their due for knocking of the B1G champ because of how lopsided last night was.

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And we're not talking about equals here anyway. TCU didn't just get blown out. They got blown out worse than any bowl participant in history.

Kevin Steele, the worst head coach in P5 football history, only had three losses on that level in a Baylor tenure filled with blowout losses.

This wasn't your run of the mill blowout. This was a humiliation of historic proportions.

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Let that sink in.

That's a great hypothetical. I think I take Baylor 2021 ... yeah it's awesome to make the championship, but the long-term legacy will be a historic beat down and exposure as a fraud.

TCU still has never won the Big 12. Not sure there is a "We beat Michigan" trophy.

PartyBear said:

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So what about memes. Texas and OU leaving was not the apocalypse, TCU not winning the national title game sure as hell isn't.

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Apocalypse? No. But the Big 12 just cemented itself as a JV league for the foreseeable future. It will continue to exist and play entertaining games. But where the national title picture is concerned, it will rightly be viewed as a child wearing his parents' clothes. This is a league of pretenders and will be treated and talked about as such.

Would you rather have the BU starting QB from 2021 or the starter from 2022?

The play off is expanding to 12. I'm not sure you are correct if it was to remain at 4.

I would 100% take Baylor's 2021 season rather than total embarrassment in front of millions. This game will be huge negative for TCU's program. The outcome of this game will be discussed much more than TCU's season. TCU will most definitely hear about the outcome when they play at rivals' stadiums next year and it will be used in recruiting.

This outcome of Georgia game will hurt TCU's program much more than their good season will help it.

Hate to say it, but in old days, Coalition/Alliance/BCS days, voters would have Bama ahead of TCU, there’d be outrage at old guard snobbery …. then we’d have a terrific game tonight.

Instead, all were forced to say TCU was more deserving.

And we get this.

— Frank Frangie (@Frank_Frangie) January 10, 2023

boognish_bear said:

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Hate to say it, but in old days, Coalition/Alliance/BCS days, voters would have Bama ahead of TCU, there’d be outrage at old guard snobbery …. then we’d have a terrific game tonight.

Instead, all were forced to say TCU was more deserving.

And we get this.

— Frank Frangie (@Frank_Frangie) January 10, 2023

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Alabama had the opportunity to earn that game and lost to LSU.

If wins and losses don't matter, it's not sport. It's sports entertainment.

This is why we need a real playoff. So stupid discussions like this can end.

robby44 said:

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Would you rather have the BU starting QB from 2021 or the starter from 2022?

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Without question 2021!!!

Baylor without a doubt. 2- Banners. Big 12 champion, Sugar Bowl Champion.

What banner can TCU hang? Did win the Big 12. Do they have a banner for Semi-final win or runner up (I truly dont know).

Big xii representative beat the B1G champion. What should this say about the B1G?

ImwithBU said:

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Baylor without a doubt. 2- Banners. Big 12 champion, Sugar Bowl Champion.

What banner can TCU hang? Did win the Big 12. Do they have a banner for Semi-final win or runner up (I truly dont know).

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Aggy gave Jimbo a dummy NC trophy. Surly purple aggy will figure something out

If it was a standard blow out I would agree.. although Notre is always reminded of their beatings every time they get high in the rankings. But this is the biggest margin of defeat in any bowl game in cfb history. Yes, that is a real stat. It was a brutal beat down that will be remembered for a long time.

cowboycwr said:

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Baylor 2021. We have two pieces of hardware/trophies to present.

TCU has the Fiesta bowl trophy for winning their playoff game and a participation banner for playing in the national championship/calling themselves the runner up but like UCF's national championship it doesn't matter like winning hardware.

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Yeah, how many TCU players gonna wear their "championship runner up rings".....LOL

I was on a Sales pipeline call today (with several TCU grads) and I go "I can't understand why we only have 7 new opportunities in the pipeline, I could probably identify 65 prospect in time it would take to play a football game"...