Clemson is a big dog and fits perfectly in the SEC. To say they're not is like saying Musk isn't a big dog because he wasn't billionaire 30 years ago.

The Big 12 needs to be proactive (whatever that is) to stay at the third spot at the table and be there when the dust clears.

The scary part now is that if the 7 ACC teams find a way out of the ACC and they are not able to immediately find homes in the SEC/B1G, they would probably put together their own conference - likely by raiding the Big 12 - to the detriment of Baylor's athletic future.

That isn't going to happen, just to be brief.

PartyBear said:

---

That isn't going to happen, just to be brief.

---

How can we be so sure? It would be difficult to create a better geography-friendly core of non B1G/SEC programs for a #3 conference. If those 7 broke off and did their own conference, it would be extremely attractive since it would have shed the weight of all of its lower value programs - apparently Wake/Duke/Syracuse/BC/Pitt(?)/Louisville/GT - and would be able to leverage the value of its core membership to cherry pick the most valuable remaining programs in the central and eastern time zones.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

That isn't going to happen, just to be brief.

---

How can we be so sure? It would be difficult to create a better geography-friendly core of non B1G/SEC programs for a #3 conference. If those 7 broke off and did their own conference, it would be extremely attractive since it would have shed the weight of all of its lower value programs - apparently Wake/Duke/Syracuse/BC/Pitt(?)/Louisville/GT - and would be able to leverage the value of its core membership to cherry pick the most valuable remaining programs in the central and eastern time zones.

---

Because a) there's likely very little appetite to join a new group of mediocre programs/brands in an unfamiliar league and b) the Big 12 is currently under a grant of rights agreement that would make leaving extremely expensive.

PartyBear is 100 percent right here. Not gonna happen.

bear2be2 said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

That isn't going to happen, just to be brief.

---

How can we be so sure? It would be difficult to create a better geography-friendly core of non B1G/SEC programs for a #3 conference. If those 7 broke off and did their own conference, it would be extremely attractive since it would have shed the weight of all of its lower value programs - apparently Wake/Duke/Syracuse/BC/Pitt(?)/Louisville/GT - and would be able to leverage the value of its core membership to cherry pick the most valuable remaining programs in the central and eastern time zones.

---

Because a) there's likely very little appetite to join a new group of mediocre programs/brands in an unfamiliar league and b) the Big 12 is currently under a grant of rights agreement that would make leaving extremely expensive.

PartyBear is 100 percent right here. Not gonna happen.

---

I suppose so. The thought arose from the belief that (1) it's unlikely that all 7 of those ACC programs have guaranteed spots in the SEC/B1G and it's unlikely that any would want to bail just to join the Big 12 and (2) those 7 are the only ones of any real value in the ACC and would be quite attractive to media if the conference could cherry pick the best of the rest (outside of Mountain and Pacific time zones). If (1) is true, then there has to be something else going on.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

That isn't going to happen, just to be brief.

---

How can we be so sure? It would be difficult to create a better geography-friendly core of non B1G/SEC programs for a #3 conference. If those 7 broke off and did their own conference, it would be extremely attractive since it would have shed the weight of all of its lower value programs - apparently Wake/Duke/Syracuse/BC/Pitt(?)/Louisville/GT - and would be able to leverage the value of its core membership to cherry pick the most valuable remaining programs in the central and eastern time zones.

---

Because a) there's likely very little appetite to join a new group of mediocre programs/brands in an unfamiliar league and b) the Big 12 is currently under a grant of rights agreement that would make leaving extremely expensive.

PartyBear is 100 percent right here. Not gonna happen.

---

I suppose so. The thought arose from the belief that (1) it's unlikely that all 7 of those ACC programs have guaranteed spots in the SEC/B1G and it's unlikely that any would want to bail just to join the Big 12 and (2) those 7 are the only ones of any real value in the ACC and would be quite attractive to media if the conference could cherry pick the best of the rest (outside of Mountain and Pacific time zones). If (1) is true, then there has to be something else going on.

---

It's every man for himself. Those with a chance to get into the SEC/Big Ten will never have any real solidarity with those who don't. We've seen that in the PAC with Oregon and Washington and are seeing it in the ACC currently with Florida State and Clemson.

Baylor -- and all others like it -- should accept its place as a middling brand with strong on-court/on-field potential and stop trying to attach itself to blue bloods that will stab us in the back at the first opportunity.

As long as there's enough money in the Big 12 to field competitive programs, this will remain the perfect conference for us. Baylor in the SEC, Big Ten or some Frankenstein conference that replaces Texas with new blue blood overlords would be a disaster for everything except for our athletic department budget. And that's about my 12th-highest priority as a Baylor sports fan.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

That isn't going to happen, just to be brief.

---

How can we be so sure? It would be difficult to create a better geography-friendly core of non B1G/SEC programs for a #3 conference. If those 7 broke off and did their own conference, it would be extremely attractive since it would have shed the weight of all of its lower value programs - apparently Wake/Duke/Syracuse/BC/Pitt(?)/Louisville/GT - and would be able to leverage the value of its core membership to cherry pick the most valuable remaining programs in the central and eastern time zones.

---

Because a) there's likely very little appetite to join a new group of mediocre programs/brands in an unfamiliar league and b) the Big 12 is currently under a grant of rights agreement that would make leaving extremely expensive.

PartyBear is 100 percent right here. Not gonna happen.

---

I suppose so. The thought arose from the belief that (1) it's unlikely that all 7 of those ACC programs have guaranteed spots in the SEC/B1G and it's unlikely that any would want to bail just to join the Big 12 and (2) those 7 are the only ones of any real value in the ACC and would be quite attractive to media if the conference could cherry pick the best of the rest (outside of Mountain and Pacific time zones). If (1) is true, then there has to be something else going on.

---

Even more unlikely in fact so unlikely it can be stated, not going to happen, that they would want to leave the ACC so they can take the big risk of trying to be the founders of a new conference. This isnt even taking into consideration the networks would have none of that.

PartyBear said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

That isn't going to happen, just to be brief.

---

How can we be so sure? It would be difficult to create a better geography-friendly core of non B1G/SEC programs for a #3 conference. If those 7 broke off and did their own conference, it would be extremely attractive since it would have shed the weight of all of its lower value programs - apparently Wake/Duke/Syracuse/BC/Pitt(?)/Louisville/GT - and would be able to leverage the value of its core membership to cherry pick the most valuable remaining programs in the central and eastern time zones.

---

Because a) there's likely very little appetite to join a new group of mediocre programs/brands in an unfamiliar league and b) the Big 12 is currently under a grant of rights agreement that would make leaving extremely expensive.

PartyBear is 100 percent right here. Not gonna happen.

---

I suppose so. The thought arose from the belief that (1) it's unlikely that all 7 of those ACC programs have guaranteed spots in the SEC/B1G and it's unlikely that any would want to bail just to join the Big 12 and (2) those 7 are the only ones of any real value in the ACC and would be quite attractive to media if the conference could cherry pick the best of the rest (outside of Mountain and Pacific time zones). If (1) is true, then there has to be something else going on.

---

Even more unlikely in fact so unlikely it can be stated, not going to happen, that they would want to leave the ACC so they can take the big risk of trying to be the founders of a new conference. This isnt even taking into consideration the networks would have none of that.

---

Maybe, but what's the most likely event from the below?

(1) All 7 teams have guaranteed spots in the B1G/SEC
(2) 2 or more of those 7 teams desire to leave the ACC solely for the purpose of joining the Big 12
(3) Those 7 teams would be willing to build their own conference outside of the existing ACC if they are not invited to the B1G/SEC

Well...if one is not going to the SEC or B10, then the XII now isnt a bad spot rather than risking being left out in 10 years when the GOR expires if circumstances change for that school. I think it would be combo of the B10,SEC and XII doing a raid to create the votes to end the ACC.

Forgot Radakovich was at Miami now… So many moving parts.

— Justin Cohen (@BadBoyOfScoops) May 16, 2023

I don't understand why other schools would want out of this because if this happens Fsu and Clemson would head to the Sec and leave them with even less money.

Ok... so the Magnificent 7 ACC schools are as follows:
Clemson
FSU
Miami
UNC
NC State
Virginia
Virginia Tech

To break the grant of rights, they'd need 8. I don't think there's another that would be willing to break the GoR right now. Does Georgia Tech think Big Ten would call?

— Gary Segars (@GaryWCE) May 15, 2023

I guess they could always combine with the big 12 and get more than they get now?

Those ACC schools really like our personality and think our national championship is very impressive. They think we have a great sense of humor and on paper would make a good match, but they aren't DTF. Too many other hotties to swipe right on before us.

gobears20 said:

---

I don't understand why other schools would want out of this because if this happens Fsu and Clemson would head to the Sec and leave them with even less money.

---

Agreed and that's exactly my point. Unless the B1G/SEC has offered them all seats - which is extremely unlikely - there must be something else going on if these reports are accurate.

Well one....we dont know what is going on. The meeting may not have been about disbanding the ACC, it could have been about starting unequal revenue sharing for example and there may be enough votes for that. That could be why the WF AD reportedly had a major exchange with the NC State AD in a bar later.

Again the only way there are actual votes now to end the conference is if 8 schools have a guaranteed place somewhere and the B10 and the SEC are not together taking a total of 8 ACC teams. Which would mean the XII is also likely in on the situation if that is what it is. Which again I doubt is the case right now.

I would think any of the magnificent 7 would add value to the B12.

Another thing to consider is that members of the PAC may be trying to work something out with M7.

Aberzombie1892 said:

---

gobears20 said:

---

I don't understand why other schools would want out of this because if this happens Fsu and Clemson would head to the Sec and leave them with even less money.

---

Agreed and that's exactly my point. Unless the B1G/SEC has offered them all seats - which is extremely unlikely - there must be something else going on if these reports are accurate.

---

I think what's going on is Virginia Tech, NC State and Miami are delusional and desperate. And in vastly overestimating their programs' respective values, they're really just doing the bidding of Florida State and Clemson, who will land safely on their feet regardless.

This is no different than the Baylor fans who think it's in our best interest to latch onto a blue blood's backside like a tick and hang on for dear life.

There is some pretty serious irony in this group calling itself "the magnificent seven." In that movie, only a few survive at the end, which would be the likely outcome for that bunch as well in the unlikely event it could break the GOR deal. Va. Tech and NC State are dying for sure. Probably Miami, too.

ESPN has a major say in how this goes down. They may tell the 8th team you're invited to the new better paying party, which could get someone to sign on. No one wants to get left twisting in the wind like TCU and Houston.

1. ACC could punt the lowest members and the 8 could pursue top Big12/PAC teams and recreate the destruction of the Southwest Conference. Or… they add Memphis and Tulane and some other G5 teams and try to negotiate themselves as a solid 3rd place league.

2. SEC, Big10, ESPN, and Fox workout were to stick Clemson, FSU, UNC, and the next best team(probably UVA). The other 4 teams would have to have a decent proposal lined up. Does a merger happen? A Big12 merger would make more sense culturally and geographically than PAC for some of the teams, but that doesn't seem to matter these days.

New look Big12 if we managed to be the landing boat-
East:
1. WV
2. Cincy
3. UCF
4. VT
5. NCSU
6. Louisville
7. Pitt
8. GT
9. Duke?(culturally Big10. Wake might fit more)
10. Miami?(don't think as attractive as some think to SEC)
West:
1. BU
2. OSU
3. TCU
4. Tech
5. Houston
6. KSU
7. KU
8. ISU
9. BYU
10. SDSU(they gleefully accept a bid)

Maybe some PAC members join and the first pod system is created. Last couple league games dictated by pod ranking. Idk what happens when leagues hit these large sizes. How do you make BYU vs UCF an attractive Saturday afternoon watch when they place once every decade if that?

Us being the landing boat is no certainty. Many on here view the college sports landscape through rose colored glasses and the others are Debbie downers. There's a ton of unknowns. Life ain't rose colored or black, it's many shades of grey(that stupid book messing up my analogy)

BearFan33 said:

---

I would think any of the magnificent 7 would add value to the B12.

Another thing to consider is that members of the PAC may be trying to work something out with M7.

---

They might add value to the B12 but they don't care about that unless they want to make the move.

Personally I think it would be great if we had Pitt (historic rival for WVU with home & home football games scheduled for the next several years), Louisville (potentially a natural rival for Cincinnati, although I don't know how they feel about it), maybe GT (at least somewhat close to UCF geographically) & Miami (close to UCF but I don't know if that's enough).

They would add some interesting game possibilities, good media markets & expand recruiting opportunities.

Total fabrication….not true…did not happen.

— Dan Radakovich (@DanRadakovich) May 16, 2023

Response from Miami's AD

boykin_spaniel said:

---

ESPN has a major say in how this goes down. They may tell the 8th team you're invited to the new better paying party, which could get someone to sign on. No one wants to get left twisting in the wind like TCU and Houston.

1. ACC could punt the lowest members and the 8 could pursue top Big12/PAC teams and recreate the destruction of the Southwest Conference. Or… they add Memphis and Tulane and some other G5 teams and try to negotiate themselves as a solid 3rd place league.

2. SEC, Big10, ESPN, and Fox workout were to stick Clemson, FSU, UNC, and the next best team(probably UVA). The other 4 teams would have to have a decent proposal lined up. Does a merger happen? A Big12 merger would make more sense culturally and geographically than PAC for some of the teams, but that doesn't seem to matter these days.

New look Big12 if we managed to be the landing boat-
East:
1. WV
2. Cincy
3. UCF
4. VT
5. NCSU
6. Louisville
7. Pitt
8. GT
9. Duke?(culturally Big10. Wake might fit more)
10. Miami?(don't think as attractive as some think to SEC)
West:
1. BU
2. OSU
3. TCU
4. Tech
5. Houston
6. KSU
7. KU
8. ISU
9. BYU
10. SDSU(they gleefully accept a bid)

Maybe some PAC members join and the first pod system is created. Last couple league games dictated by pod ranking. Idk what happens when leagues hit these large sizes. How do you make BYU vs UCF an attractive Saturday afternoon watch when they place once every decade if that?

---

ESPN has a sweetheart deal with the ACC now. I can't see it choosing to do any favors for teams that just colluded to break up that network-friendly TV deal.

And I don't think these networks are into doing anybody any favors anyway. These are businesses, not charities. And the death of cable/bundled TV is giving them less and less money to throw around.

boykin_spaniel said:

---

Us being the landing boat is no certainty. Many on here view the college sports landscape through rose colored glasses and the others are Debbie downers. There's a ton of unknowns. Life ain't rose colored or black, it's many shades of grey(that stupid book messing up my analogy)

---

The PAC-12 and ACC are paralyzed both by their GOR deal (or lack thereof, in the case if the PAC) and the disparate goals of their current membership in a way the Big 12 simply isn't. The Big 12 is in a great position compared to those other two peer leagues because it's already ensured survival and is working as a unified front to build on a guaranteed future while those others are still trying to figure out of they even want a future.

NC State and Virginia Tech must have had substantial talks with Big 12 already if they agreed to be a part of this mutiny.

It is a sweetheart deal and ESPN doesn't want to lose it, but if enough teams bind together and threaten to snap the GOR and ESPN doesn't want to lose UNC to the Big10 and Fox then they might agree to renegotiate. No one knows what is going on here except that the top money teams are unhappy and see themselves falling behind perhaps permanently.

They're currently paralyzed, but apparently 8 teams can cause the ACC GOR to break(at least that's what some guy on Twitter said . PAC is a mystery. Only the league knows what type of money they're currently being offered. No one has jumped yet meaning no one really wants to jump.

“I don’t expect them to go without a fight."@PaulCatalina gives his thoughts on the ACC’s Grant of Rights and the other #ACC members not included in the “Magnificent 7.” https://t.co/EexnBOc52y pic.twitter.com/KpdVjraU5A

— 365 Sports (@365sportsYT) May 15, 2023

boykin_spaniel said:

---

It is a sweetheart deal and ESPN doesn't want to lose it, but if enough teams bind together and threaten to snap the GOR and ESPN doesn't want to lose UNC to the Big10 and Fox then they might agree to renegotiate. No one knows what is going on here except that the top money teams are unhappy and see themselves falling behind perhaps permanently.

---

I think the biggest issue is that both the PAC and ACC have teams that think they belong in the SEC or Big Ten, and none of those will ever be satisfied settling long term for anything less.

The Big 12 doesn't have that same issue. Our conference's biggest strength is that its members know what they are and understand that there is still value in being a mid-size brand with nationally competitive athletic programs. So we're focused on maximizing that value rather than crying in our soup or pretending to be something we're not.

Stefano DiMera said:

---

NC State and Virginia Tech must have had substantial talks with Big 12 already if they agreed to be a part of this mutiny.

---

I am not vouching for this twitter account at all (in fact he sometimes seems like a loon) but that realignment obsessed guy named Swaim is now saying in the past few hours Louisville has made it the magnificent 8.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's Louisville..I would have guessed Pitt but yeah that Greg Swaim has been all over the place for so long I can't keep up on what has or hasn't come true he's predicted.

Maybe Kliakovff is a genius .stall . delay..stall.delay on announcing a TV deal waiting for ACC to implode and PAC 12 doesn't get raided by Big 12.

Stefano DiMera said:

---

Maybe Kliakovff is a genius .stall . delay..stall.delay on announcing a TV deal waiting for ACC to implode and PAC 12 doesn't get raided by Big 12.

---

The PAC would likely be hoping for the Ocean Coasts Conference to form up after ACC implosion with an ACC-PAC leftovers merger.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Stefano DiMera said:

---

Maybe Kliakovff is a genius .stall . delay..stall.delay on announcing a TV deal waiting for ACC to implode and PAC 12 doesn't get raided by Big 12.

---

The PAC would likely be hoping for the Ocean Coasts Conference to form up after ACC implosion with an ACC-PAC leftovers merger.

---

If there was serious money in a bi-coastal conference, they would have found it before the ACC imploded. If they couldn't make a conference with Oregon, Washington, Florida State, Clemson, etc. work, I don't see how one missing several of those heavy hitters would.

Reporters have hinted about a PAC-ACC merger multiple times over the past year, and it always blew up because there was no real TV money bump there.

Florida State AD Michael Alford said ACC discussing several revenue distribution options but admitted they won't get close to SEC or Big Ten numbers. "We're never going to cover the entire gap, but it will allow you to be competitive"

— Brett McMurphy (@Brett_McMurphy) May 16, 2023