Any given Saturday but it'll take a complete 180 from last Saturdays debacle

IowaBear said:

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The next 5 games will be telling… if we're 1-5 (likely) changes need to be made. If we by some miracle can get to 3-3 I'll be extremely happy all things considered.

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Same here. I'm rooting for Aranda to turn it around. And even at 6-6, I'd probably support a fifth year to see what he can do with what will be an extremely experienced roster next season.

But barring a significant turnaround starting this week against Utah, it's hard to envision this team even getting to 6-6 and a minor bowl at this point.

Yep. Tomorrow is very unlikely but if they can turn things around enough to be competitive and at least not embarrass themselves & then totally curb stomp LIU, then we will have momentum on our side before the Cows come to town. I know I'm grasping at straws, but the alternative is a 1-3 start which looks more likely.

This is where I'm at. This truly looks like a 1-11 team (granted it's week 1) if Dave can get to 3 or more wins I'd be ok giving him one more year. If this team goes 1-11 I don't know how BU can justify keeping him. There's several winnable games IF this team improves. Big few months for Aranda imo

historian said:

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Good or great offense and good or great defense are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult, but it's possible for a team to have both. That's one way to define a championship level team.

Statistics are one way to measure it but not the only and you use only one stat. I don't know what the other numbers look like (probably comparable but maybe a little better or worse in some cases) but I know that our defense was good enough in 2013 & 2014 to win the conference title while defeating Texas, OU & TCU. At times it was great, such as the goal line stand vs OU in 2013. There were many examples in those years. By the same token, our defense was elite in 2021. And our offense was enough was good enough to win another Big 12 championship & the Sugar Bowl. In three separate years we were almost good enough on both sides to get into the playoffs (2014, 2019, & 2021).

If we ever get back to being good or great at both then we will have another shot at a title. Once we get there, it's important to do do consistently. Briles was doing that before the fake scandal.

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The only way to get both is to recruit elite talent. We've never done that and likely never will.

Baylor's best path to success is a coach with a clear and proven identity that he can recruit and develop to.

Briles and Rhule were very different in their approaches to the game, but both knew exactly what they wanted their teams to look like and recruited athletes they could turn into players in their schemes. We need to get back to that, whether it's with this staff or the next one.

IowaBear said:

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This is where I'm at. This truly looks like a 1-11 team (granted it's week 1) if Dave can get to 3 or more wins I'd be ok giving him one more year. If this team goes 1-11 I don't know how BU can justify keeping him. There's several winnable games IF this team improves. Big few months for Aranda imo

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I think we'll win at least three games. There are a lot of mediocre teams in the Big 12 this year, and I think our offense will eventually be pretty good. But getting from three to six wins will require a lot of improvement in areas of deficiency currently.

Going on a bros trip to Cincy for the game. Praying they look at least competent by them. A 9 hr ride home after a shellacking doesn't sound fun

bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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Good or great offense and good or great defense are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult, but it's possible for a team to have both. That's one way to define a championship level team.

Statistics are one way to measure it but not the only and you use only one stat. I don't know what the other numbers look like (probably comparable but maybe a little better or worse in some cases) but I know that our defense was good enough in 2013 & 2014 to win the conference title while defeating Texas, OU & TCU. At times it was great, such as the goal line stand vs OU in 2013. There were many examples in those years. By the same token, our defense was elite in 2021. And our offense was enough was good enough to win another Big 12 championship & the Sugar Bowl. In three separate years we were almost good enough on both sides to get into the playoffs (2014, 2019, & 2021).

If we ever get back to being good or great at both then we will have another shot at a title. Once we get there, it's important to do do consistently. Briles was doing that before the fake scandal.

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The only way to get both is to recruit elite talent. We've never done that and likely never will.

Baylor's best path to success is a coach with a clear and proven identity that he can recruit and develop to.

Briles and Rhule were very different in their approaches to the game, but both knew exactly what they wanted their teams to look like and recruited athletes they could turn into players in their schemes. We need to get back to that, whether it's with this staff or the next one.

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Depends on what "elite" means. We've had lots of success over the past decade recruiting 3* & 4* players and getting elite results: winning more conference championships than any Big 12 team except OU.

IowaBear said:

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Going on a bros trip to Cincy for the game. Praying they look at least competent by them. A 9 hr ride home after a shellacking doesn't sound fun

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Been there done that. We drove from Waco to Birmingham (about a 10-hour drive) for the 2004 opener only to watch us get destroyed 56-14 by UAB.

But I also have some great road trip memories from those days. We went to Colorado in 2006 for the triple-OT win there, and that was awesome.

Road trips are fun regardless. But they're a lot more fun when your team plays well/wins.

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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Good or great offense and good or great defense are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult, but it's possible for a team to have both. That's one way to define a championship level team.

Statistics are one way to measure it but not the only and you use only one stat. I don't know what the other numbers look like (probably comparable but maybe a little better or worse in some cases) but I know that our defense was good enough in 2013 & 2014 to win the conference title while defeating Texas, OU & TCU. At times it was great, such as the goal line stand vs OU in 2013. There were many examples in those years. By the same token, our defense was elite in 2021. And our offense was enough was good enough to win another Big 12 championship & the Sugar Bowl. In three separate years we were almost good enough on both sides to get into the playoffs (2014, 2019, & 2021).

If we ever get back to being good or great at both then we will have another shot at a title. Once we get there, it's important to do do consistently. Briles was doing that before the fake scandal.

---

The only way to get both is to recruit elite talent. We've never done that and likely never will.

Baylor's best path to success is a coach with a clear and proven identity that he can recruit and develop to.

Briles and Rhule were very different in their approaches to the game, but both knew exactly what they wanted their teams to look like and recruited athletes they could turn into players in their schemes. We need to get back to that, whether it's with this staff or the next one.

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Depends on what "elite" means. We've had lots of success over the past decade recruiting 3* & 4* players and getting elite results: winning more conference championships than any Big 12 team except OU.

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We've never been great on both sides of the ball. We've had elite offenses and elite defenses, but never at the same time. In fact, most years the unit across from our elite one was average to slightly above average.

To reach that level on both sides of the ball, you have to recruit elite talent.

bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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Good or great offense and good or great defense are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult, but it's possible for a team to have both. That's one way to define a championship level team.

Statistics are one way to measure it but not the only and you use only one stat. I don't know what the other numbers look like (probably comparable but maybe a little better or worse in some cases) but I know that our defense was good enough in 2013 & 2014 to win the conference title while defeating Texas, OU & TCU. At times it was great, such as the goal line stand vs OU in 2013. There were many examples in those years. By the same token, our defense was elite in 2021. And our offense was enough was good enough to win another Big 12 championship & the Sugar Bowl. In three separate years we were almost good enough on both sides to get into the playoffs (2014, 2019, & 2021).

If we ever get back to being good or great at both then we will have another shot at a title. Once we get there, it's important to do do consistently. Briles was doing that before the fake scandal.

---

The only way to get both is to recruit elite talent. We've never done that and likely never will.

Baylor's best path to success is a coach with a clear and proven identity that he can recruit and develop to.

Briles and Rhule were very different in their approaches to the game, but both knew exactly what they wanted their teams to look like and recruited athletes they could turn into players in their schemes. We need to get back to that, whether it's with this staff or the next one.

---

Depends on what "elite" means. We've had lots of success over the past decade recruiting 3* & 4* players and getting elite results: winning more conference championships than any Big 12 team except OU.

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We've never been great on both sides of the ball. We've had elite offenses and elite defenses, but never at the same time. In fact, most years the unit across from our elite one was average to slightly above average.

To reach that level on both sides of the ball, you have to recruit elite talent.

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And hope that the BOR doesn't fire the coach!

Worst was Morgantown last year. Literally hoped on my motorcycle last minute… boy that ride home was brutal. But yes typically I have a blast. None of us have been to Cincy so it'll be a good time regardless I'm sure.

IowaBear said:

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Worst was Morgantown last year. Literally hoped on my motorcycle last minute… boy that ride home was brutal. But yes typically I have a blast. None of us have been to Cincy so it'll be a good time regardless I'm sure.

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I've been to Cincinnati twice (three times if you count a layover in the airport) and enjoyed it both times. It's a cool, clean Midwestern city that's easy to get around.

We drove through most recently this summer on our way back home from Detroit and ate at a taco restaurant right by Great American Ballpark. It was pretty cool. The Reds were out of town that day, but a bunch of fans were eating in that area and watching the game on a big screen on the side of the ballpark.

They were playing the Astros, and you'd hear cheering every time the Reds did something good. Those were better days as a Rangers fan. Haha.

IowaBear said:

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Worst was Morgantown last year. Literally hoped on my motorcycle last minute… boy that ride home was brutal. But yes typically I have a blast. None of us have been to Cincy so it'll be a good time regardless I'm sure.

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did you see any couches get burned?

bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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Good or great offense and good or great defense are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult, but it's possible for a team to have both. That's one way to define a championship level team.

Statistics are one way to measure it but not the only and you use only one stat. I don't know what the other numbers look like (probably comparable but maybe a little better or worse in some cases) but I know that our defense was good enough in 2013 & 2014 to win the conference title while defeating Texas, OU & TCU. At times it was great, such as the goal line stand vs OU in 2013. There were many examples in those years. By the same token, our defense was elite in 2021. And our offense was enough was good enough to win another Big 12 championship & the Sugar Bowl. In three separate years we were almost good enough on both sides to get into the playoffs (2014, 2019, & 2021).

If we ever get back to being good or great at both then we will have another shot at a title. Once we get there, it's important to do do consistently. Briles was doing that before the fake scandal.

---

The only way to get both is to recruit elite talent. We've never done that and likely never will.

Baylor's best path to success is a coach with a clear and proven identity that he can recruit and develop to.

Briles and Rhule were very different in their approaches to the game, but both knew exactly what they wanted their teams to look like and recruited athletes they could turn into players in their schemes. We need to get back to that, whether it's with this staff or the next one.

---

Depends on what "elite" means. We've had lots of success over the past decade recruiting 3* & 4* players and getting elite results: winning more conference championships than any Big 12 team except OU.

---

We've never been great on both sides of the ball. We've had elite offenses and elite defenses, but never at the same time. In fact, most years the unit across from our elite one was average to slightly above average.

To reach that level on both sides of the ball, you have to recruit elite talent.

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True. But we have had one good while the other was great. If we could have kept that trend going, we might have recruited more elite talent and thus had greater success.

historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

---

Good or great offense and good or great defense are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult, but it's possible for a team to have both. That's one way to define a championship level team.

Statistics are one way to measure it but not the only and you use only one stat. I don't know what the other numbers look like (probably comparable but maybe a little better or worse in some cases) but I know that our defense was good enough in 2013 & 2014 to win the conference title while defeating Texas, OU & TCU. At times it was great, such as the goal line stand vs OU in 2013. There were many examples in those years. By the same token, our defense was elite in 2021. And our offense was enough was good enough to win another Big 12 championship & the Sugar Bowl. In three separate years we were almost good enough on both sides to get into the playoffs (2014, 2019, & 2021).

If we ever get back to being good or great at both then we will have another shot at a title. Once we get there, it's important to do do consistently. Briles was doing that before the fake scandal.

---

The only way to get both is to recruit elite talent. We've never done that and likely never will.

Baylor's best path to success is a coach with a clear and proven identity that he can recruit and develop to.

Briles and Rhule were very different in their approaches to the game, but both knew exactly what they wanted their teams to look like and recruited athletes they could turn into players in their schemes. We need to get back to that, whether it's with this staff or the next one.

---

Depends on what "elite" means. We've had lots of success over the past decade recruiting 3* & 4* players and getting elite results: winning more conference championships than any Big 12 team except OU.

---

We've never been great on both sides of the ball. We've had elite offenses and elite defenses, but never at the same time. In fact, most years the unit across from our elite one was average to slightly above average.

To reach that level on both sides of the ball, you have to recruit elite talent.

---

True. But we have had one good while the other was great. If we could have kept that trend going, we might have recruited more elite talent and thus had greater success.

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Which coaching staff / years are you referring to?

montypython said:

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historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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bear2be2 said:

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historian said:

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Good or great offense and good or great defense are not mutually exclusive. It's difficult, but it's possible for a team to have both. That's one way to define a championship level team.

Statistics are one way to measure it but not the only and you use only one stat. I don't know what the other numbers look like (probably comparable but maybe a little better or worse in some cases) but I know that our defense was good enough in 2013 & 2014 to win the conference title while defeating Texas, OU & TCU. At times it was great, such as the goal line stand vs OU in 2013. There were many examples in those years. By the same token, our defense was elite in 2021. And our offense was enough was good enough to win another Big 12 championship & the Sugar Bowl. In three separate years we were almost good enough on both sides to get into the playoffs (2014, 2019, & 2021).

If we ever get back to being good or great at both then we will have another shot at a title. Once we get there, it's important to do do consistently. Briles was doing that before the fake scandal.

---

The only way to get both is to recruit elite talent. We've never done that and likely never will.

Baylor's best path to success is a coach with a clear and proven identity that he can recruit and develop to.

Briles and Rhule were very different in their approaches to the game, but both knew exactly what they wanted their teams to look like and recruited athletes they could turn into players in their schemes. We need to get back to that, whether it's with this staff or the next one.

---

Depends on what "elite" means. We've had lots of success over the past decade recruiting 3* & 4* players and getting elite results: winning more conference championships than any Big 12 team except OU.

---

We've never been great on both sides of the ball. We've had elite offenses and elite defenses, but never at the same time. In fact, most years the unit across from our elite one was average to slightly above average.

To reach that level on both sides of the ball, you have to recruit elite talent.

---

True. But we have had one good while the other was great. If we could have kept that trend going, we might have recruited more elite talent and thus had greater success.

---

Which coaching staff / years are you referring to?

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I think it would apply to 2013, 2014, 2015, 2019 and 2021.

Good is subjective, but I would apply it to any unit in the top 50 in efficiency, and the 2013 team paired the the No. 5 offense with a defense ranked 22nd in defensive efficiency, the 2014 defense was ranked No. 7 in offensive efficiency and 43rd in defensive efficiency and the 2015 squad was ranked No. 4 on offense and 32 on defense.

And then the 2019 team paired the No. 6 defense with the 46th rated offense and the 2021 team was ranked No. 10 on defense and No. 34 on offense.

Our history would suggest if you have a top-10 unit on one side, all you need is a top 50 unit on the other side to field a really good football team. But without one really good unit, it's hard to field a team that's anything better than mediocre.

Those years are exactly the ones I meant. Both "good" & "great" are subjective but in three seasons during that time, both offense & defense were at least good enough for us to get 11 or 12 wins and the conference title. We had 10+ wins in other years when both were almost good enough, better than most.

IowaBear said:

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Going on a bros trip to Cincy for the game. Praying they look at least competent by them. A 9 hr ride home after a shellacking doesn't sound fun

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I was planning on attending this game with my son. Not so sure I could endure it based on last Saturday's performance. I suppose I'll reevaluate after tomorrow.

I don't discount the notion that if times get truly desperate, the 40 mil buyout money will appear.

I don't quite get this. Dave wins 3 games and he should get another year? I think we should expect greater accountability than that. That's like saying "As long as Joe Biden doesn't start a nuclear war, I'll give him another 4 years."

Comparing the number of Dave's wins to anything regarding Sleepy Joe, that's next level stuff my man. You've still got the tee box sir!

Spot on. AD change needed. C