"[The environment against OU in 2019] is what Baylor fans want. They want that back, but that's the only time we've seen that."@Colt_Barber gives some context as to why #Baylor is at a crossroads with its fan base🐻⬇️ https://t.co/ApB60TWDSF pic.twitter.com/ZYZyg3cy95

— Baylor Athletics on SicEm365 (@SicEm365_) September 13, 2023

There's no swagger with this program. All the POP nonsense is just worthy of eye-rolls.

O black uniforms.

No chrome helmets

Only L's

We will never get anything that resembles the briles era

I recall the environment of the KState game; that of the OU-KJ Morton -playing-Jack Tatum; Mack' and the ice fog; OU on other occasions incl the worst beatdown in Owen; multiple horn games. We've had plenty of those "environments" and all were due to preparation and execution on the field. The fandom followed en masse.

We do not, have never had, and in our lifetimes probably never will have a fan base that packs out a stadium/arena no matter the external circumstances. Most programs honestly don't have that. Doesn't mean things can't be done to improve, but it's just not the reality.

Folks have mentioned it in the past but it's sort of a "what is our identity" question at its base. We're just sort of a nebulous floating program right now you can't really put your finger on, and students/casuals pick up on that when they're deciding how to spend their Saturdays. And our marketing suuuuucks. Always has really, back to when putting GuyMo on a motorcycle on the pregame jumbotron into was the coolest thing we could imagine. The only thing I can even remember us doing that was even moderately cool/successful from a marketing perspective was the RG3 Heisman campaign.

That said, the few times when it is packed and rolling, that stadium kicks ass. Very loud, rowdy environment, hard to play in. It's just not that way nearly often enough.

drahthaar said:

---

I recall the environment of the KState game; that of the OU-KJ Morton -playing-Jack Tatum; Mack' and the ice fog; OU on other occasions incl the worst beatdown in Owen; multiple horn games. We've had plenty of those "environments" and all were due to preparation and execution on the field. The fandom followed en masse.

---

Yeah, we've created a great environment several times over the last decade or so. But certainly not right now, when we're on a long losing streak.

They messed up tailgating when they brought in the outside vendor and charged way too much $$ for the lots. The last couple seasons at Floyd Casey are my fondest memories because tailgating was fun and the fans were excited. The black out game with OU was probably the best environment I've experienced.

Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. Doesn't happen all the time. Certainly not now b/c we're all asleep and waiting for it to end. But I've been a Baylor fan for 4 decades now, and I've seen that happen plenty of times. Dirty looks if you're standing up being loud, especially if you do something brazen like boo the refs. God forbid a "bad" word slips. On and on.

And our game day production reflects that. Go to a game at OU vs a game at Baylor. No comparison. Compare their announcer to ours and the way he hypes up the stadium to the guys doing in game / on field mic work at Baylor games. It's night and day. That culture is always going to be an issue that makes our game day environment different than many schools (i.e. stodgier).

Baylor does have a large contingent that prefers a certain type of Sunday school decorum everywhere, including at football games.

Well, I think it's pretty easy to argue those bluehairs had somewhat of an argument in that case, because even differing minds can agree the program was way too loose in multiple ways - the nation's most successful programs certainly weren't run to where the whole apparatus felt like a wobbly train running at 150mph routinely careening around turns on two wheels. If felt like we flew way too close to the sun at least several times per game where you thought, "if it looks this unhinged on gamedays, how does it look when no one's watching?"

The shushing during games and admonitions to sit down are something else though - it's just a problematic part of our older fan culture that is present in just about every program, but is usually drowned out by the insanity elsewhere in the stadium, namely the student section. And on non-hyped gamedays our student section is just sort of meh.

We were just mediocre/bad for so long that I don't think lasting traditions developed the same way they did at many other schools, and many of the ones that did just seem kind of half-baked. Like the pre-snap sic 'em for instance - the whole stadium is roaring until the snap and then there's this stillness during the actual play after it finishes. A small thing in microcosm but it's just emblematic of other gameday things bigger programs don't do.

Well unless the stodgy pearl clutchers are going to fill the stadium with butts in seats and donate to the BBF, they need to tolerate some fun and excitement.

parch said:

---

Well, I think it's pretty easy to argue those bluehairs had somewhat of an argument in that case, because even differing minds can agree the program was way too loose in multiple ways - the nation's most successful programs certainly weren't run to where the whole apparatus felt like a wobbly train running at 150mph routinely careening around turns on two wheels. If felt like we flew way too close to the sun at least several times per game where you thought, "if it looks this unhinged on gamedays, how does it look when no one's watching?"

The shushing during games and admonitions to sit down are something else though - it's just a problematic part of our older fan culture that is present in just about every program, but is usually drowned out by the insanity elsewhere in the stadium, namely the student section. And on non-hyped gamedays our student section is just sort of meh.

We were just mediocre/bad for so long that I don't think lasting traditions developed the same way they did at many other schools, and many of the ones that did just seem kind of half-baked. Like the pre-snap sic 'em for instance - the whole stadium is roaring until the snap and then there's this stillness during the actual play after it finishes. A small thing in microcosm but it's just emblematic of other gameday things bigger programs don't do.

---

Eh, I think there are examples of that working quite a while other places, but it won't at Baylor. And even if you managed it to tighten up the off-the-field issues, I think lots of Baylor folks still resented what they viewed as a "thug" image on the field.

And I think the shushing and such is related. It's all kinda part of the same thing. And I agree us being terrible for so long is a big part of it. But I think that's related, too. We do cheesy stuff because ... we are kinda cheesy. Can you imagine Baylor fans reacting to the Va Tech Enter Sandman entrance in the same way? I just don't think that would work here.

But if we win a lot, the atmosphere is plenty good enough, including under Rhule or Aranda. And everyone is happy.

Robert Wilson said:

---

parch said:

---

Well, I think it's pretty easy to argue those bluehairs had somewhat of an argument in that case, because even differing minds can agree the program was way too loose in multiple ways - the nation's most successful programs certainly weren't run to where the whole apparatus felt like a wobbly train running at 150mph routinely careening around turns on two wheels. If felt like we flew way too close to the sun at least several times per game where you thought, "if it looks this unhinged on gamedays, how does it look when no one's watching?"

The shushing during games and admonitions to sit down are something else though - it's just a problematic part of our older fan culture that is present in just about every program, but is usually drowned out by the insanity elsewhere in the stadium, namely the student section. And on non-hyped gamedays our student section is just sort of meh.

We were just mediocre/bad for so long that I don't think lasting traditions developed the same way they did at many other schools, and many of the ones that did just seem kind of half-baked. Like the pre-snap sic 'em for instance - the whole stadium is roaring until the snap and then there's this stillness during the actual play after it finishes. A small thing in microcosm but it's just emblematic of other gameday things bigger programs don't do.

---

Eh, I think there are examples of that working quite a while other places, but it won't at Baylor. And even if you managed it to tighten up the off-the-field issues, I think lots of Baylor folks still resented what they viewed as a "thug" image on the field.

And I think the shushing and such is related. It's all kinda part of the same thing. And I agree us being terrible for so long is a big part of it. But I think that's related, too. We do cheesy stuff because ... we are kinda cheesy. Can you imagine Baylor fans reacting to the Va Tech Enter Sandman entrance in the same way? I just don't think that would work here.

But if we win a lot, the atmosphere is plenty good enough, including under Rhule or Aranda. And everyone is happy.

---

I don't think it's all the same, because there are snappy old alumni in every stadium getting uppity if people around them aren't adhering to their gentile values. Hell, I've seen that happen at The Shoe at Ohio State, and if it can happen there I feel like it can happen anywhere.

I guess the point is that cheesiness and a vibrant gameday are not mutually exclusive items. Go to Iowa - Kinnick is midwest Velveta cheese, their product is more boring than paint drying and it's full and loud every Saturday. Hell, BYU is probably even cornier than we are, they don't even drink soda and give snacks to opposing fans. If our fanbase is kind of Christian corny, there are ways to market and lean into that - and it's one reason - for better and worse - why Briles always felt like a round peg/square hole to a large portion of our fan base.

parch said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

parch said:

---

Well, I think it's pretty easy to argue those bluehairs had somewhat of an argument in that case, because even differing minds can agree the program was way too loose in multiple ways - the nation's most successful programs certainly weren't run to where the whole apparatus felt like a wobbly train running at 150mph routinely careening around turns on two wheels. If felt like we flew way too close to the sun at least several times per game where you thought, "if it looks this unhinged on gamedays, how does it look when no one's watching?"

The shushing during games and admonitions to sit down are something else though - it's just a problematic part of our older fan culture that is present in just about every program, but is usually drowned out by the insanity elsewhere in the stadium, namely the student section. And on non-hyped gamedays our student section is just sort of meh.

We were just mediocre/bad for so long that I don't think lasting traditions developed the same way they did at many other schools, and many of the ones that did just seem kind of half-baked. Like the pre-snap sic 'em for instance - the whole stadium is roaring until the snap and then there's this stillness during the actual play after it finishes. A small thing in microcosm but it's just emblematic of other gameday things bigger programs don't do.

---

Eh, I think there are examples of that working quite a while other places, but it won't at Baylor. And even if you managed it to tighten up the off-the-field issues, I think lots of Baylor folks still resented what they viewed as a "thug" image on the field.

And I think the shushing and such is related. It's all kinda part of the same thing. And I agree us being terrible for so long is a big part of it. But I think that's related, too. We do cheesy stuff because ... we are kinda cheesy. Can you imagine Baylor fans reacting to the Va Tech Enter Sandman entrance in the same way? I just don't think that would work here.

But if we win a lot, the atmosphere is plenty good enough, including under Rhule or Aranda. And everyone is happy.

---

I don't think it's all the same, because there are snappy old alumni in every stadium getting uppity if people around them aren't adhering to their gentile values. Hell, I've seen that happen at The Shoe at Ohio State, and if it can happen there I feel like it can happen anywhere.

I guess the point is that cheesiness and a vibrant gameday are not mutually exclusive items. Go to Iowa - Kinnick is midwest Velveta cheese, their product is more boring than paint drying and it's full and loud every Saturday. Hell, BYU is probably even cornier than we are, they don't even drink soda and give snacks to opposing fans. If our fanbase is kind of Christian corny, there are ways to market and lean into that - and it's one reason - for better and worse - why Briles always felt like a round peg/square hole to a large portion of our fan base.

---

It's all related to a group that is just generally more uptight than most fan bases.

But I agree you can still have a good atmosphere. You need to win. And we could do a lot better with our gameday productions without ruffling too many feathers.

I agree with many of the posts on here. Several factors have affected where the fan base is now. Basically IMO we were at the top during Briles era and then in a few short days we were at the bottom again. It wasn't a slow descent. It was immediate. Fans don't see a way back or an athletic department who is trying to get it back.

Win games and these things tend to take care of themselves. I came to Baylor in 2010 as a freshman. Even then with Briles, the program still had to build up to that kind of swagger or whatever it is you want to call it. Best home game I experienced wasn't in 2019, it was the 2013 Halloween game versus OU

Robert Wilson said:

---

Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. ......

---

I will say it for you.

Its because Baylor (as a school and fan base) is soft and white collar.

I loved watching those guys hit the hell out of people and become a feared program that was down right mean at times.

We went up 30 points on a team and I wanted them to keep throwing for the end zone and go up by another 30

We as a school and fan base we are SMU mixed with Oral Roberts.

Our leadership is like that...and alot of our fans are like that.

Seems like they want a wine and cheese environment mixed with a sunday school session

Redbrickbear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. ......

---

I will say it for you.

Its because Baylor (as a school and fan base) is soft and white collar.

I loved watching those guys hit the hell out of people and become a feared program that was down right mean at times.

We went up 30 points on a team and I wanted them to keep throwing for the end zone and go up by another 30

We as a school and fan base we are SMU mixed with Oral Roberts.

Our leadership is like that...and alot of our fans are like that.

Seems like they want a wine and cheese environment mixed with a sunday school session

---

Ouch. You're on the money. The truth does hurt lol. I've always felt like you could put the people that are in charge of game day environment in charge of the theater department, and you wouldn't see anything but a perfectly smooth transition.

you mentioned wine and cheese, but I think you meant grapejuice and cheese. The ban on alcohol at games is the last Baptist holdover tradition that the admin is holding onto.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. Doesn't happen all the time. Certainly not now b/c we're all asleep and waiting for it to end. But I've been a Baylor fan for 4 decades now, and I've seen that happen plenty of times. Dirty looks if you're standing up being loud, especially if you do something brazen like boo the refs. God forbid a "bad" word slips. On and on.

And our game day production reflects that. Go to a game at OU vs a game at Baylor. No comparison. Compare their announcer to ours and the way he hypes up the stadium to the guys doing in game / on field mic work at Baylor games. It's night and day. That culture is always going to be an issue that makes our game day environment different than many schools (i.e. stodgier).

Baylor does have a large contingent that prefers a certain type of Sunday school decorum everywhere, including at football games.

---

Yeah, Dixon was awesome. We are desperately missing players with his personality. The Gary Patterson interview where he complained about feeling threatened was TV gold…. And I don't remember a single Baylor fan complaining about how that might affect chemistry, person over player, or any of this self-righteous moral victory stuff that we hear today as if to beat our chest about our superior moral fiber versus other programs

All fans want is wins. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no more context. If you don't win, you won't have fans.

Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser.
G. Patton

CorsicanaBear said:

---

All fans want is wins. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no more context. If you don't win, you won't have fans.

Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser.
G. Patton

---

At least that was true in Pattons day.

Wacoraisedbear said:

---

We will never get anything that resembles the briles era

---

Yep, the woke have taken over

Robert Wilson said:

---

Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. Doesn't happen all the time. Certainly not now b/c we're all asleep and waiting for it to end. But I've been a Baylor fan for 4 decades now, and I've seen that happen plenty of times. Dirty looks if you're standing up being loud, especially if you do something brazen like boo the refs. God forbid a "bad" word slips. On and on.

And our game day production reflects that. Go to a game at OU vs a game at Baylor. No comparison. Compare their announcer to ours and the way he hypes up the stadium to the guys doing in game / on field mic work at Baylor games. It's night and day. That culture is always going to be an issue that makes our game day environment different than many schools (i.e. stodgier).

Baylor does have a large contingent that prefers a certain type of Sunday school decorum everywhere, including at football games.

---

East Waco boy? Dixon went to Midway from at least 7th grade on.

But I agree with the rest of your post. The old Baylor crowd never liked that. They want slow plodding football because that is how football was for years and what they are used to. They want good nice gentleman as players. Not flashy, trash talking or showboating.

Unfortunately they are the big donors so they drive the decisions.

cowboycwr said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. Doesn't happen all the time. Certainly not now b/c we're all asleep and waiting for it to end. But I've been a Baylor fan for 4 decades now, and I've seen that happen plenty of times. Dirty looks if you're standing up being loud, especially if you do something brazen like boo the refs. God forbid a "bad" word slips. On and on.

And our game day production reflects that. Go to a game at OU vs a game at Baylor. No comparison. Compare their announcer to ours and the way he hypes up the stadium to the guys doing in game / on field mic work at Baylor games. It's night and day. That culture is always going to be an issue that makes our game day environment different than many schools (i.e. stodgier).

Baylor does have a large contingent that prefers a certain type of Sunday school decorum everywhere, including at football games.

---

East Waco boy? Dixon went to Midway from at least 7th grade on.

But I agree with the rest of your post. The old Baylor crowd never liked that. They want slow plodding football because that is how football was for years and what they are used to. They want good nice gentleman as players. Not flashy, trash talking or showboating.

Unfortunately they are the big donors so they drive the decisions.

---

I sat in the middle of those "old geezers" in the Case (E-EE) and that was decidedly not their take. They were glad to have a football team with some swag and killer instinct rather than the mess they had been watching for years.

The in game stuff is bad. There are ways to improve it. Start with ending the Jumbotron lectures such as "quiet. Offense at work." For freshmen who don't know the game they have the Chamber team or is Chamber no longer leading the freshmen? Also just play decent music. It can be the clean version. Don't force chants. If the students want to start a Baylor/Bears chant let it happen organically.

Briles' guys played with an edge. Taking that edge off the field was bad but on the field is fine. Mike Singletary took peoples heads off. The players are mostly 18-21 year old kids. Let them have fun on the field. Their fun helps fuel the crowd. Person over player? If the player wants to jaw a bit and play past the whistle every now and then to set the tone then let 'em do it. I think everyone on this board who ever played a sport with a whistle was coached to play through the whistle. Obviously no dumb penalties but an early welcome to Waco Chris Miller style shouldn't be an issue. It is football after all.

Tailgating I can't much speak to besides the fact I've heard nothing positive. Who outsources their tailgating? Was it an attempt at a work around with alcohol? Thousands of dollars for a dumpy little piece of gravel?

Some of our fans remind me of classic club seat fans. A rain drop? They go inside. Hot? They go inside. Don't feel like fighting traffic? Leave the game after the 3rd quarter. The Weeknd playing over the speakers instead of your favorite hymn? Cross your arms and give an eye roll and a "hmph" or go inside.

Student section is usually pretty good. Line was bad vs Utah. Bunch of no shows apparently. Perhaps some more engaging music and organic fun would assist. Free chick fil a sandwich for the first 500 students to show their ID? I think we can spot 500 chicken sandwiches. The forced chants don't help the students either. It's demoralizing for all.

CorsicanaBear said:

---

All fans want is wins. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no more context. If you don't win, you won't have fans.

Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser.
G. Patton

---

Yes. Losing makes for a pretty poor game day entertainment value proposition.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. ......

---

I will say it for you.

Its because Baylor (as a school and fan base) is soft and white collar.

I loved watching those guys hit the hell out of people and become a feared program that was down right mean at times.

We went up 30 points on a team and I wanted them to keep throwing for the end zone and go up by another 30

We as a school and fan base we are SMU mixed with Oral Roberts.

Our leadership is like that...and alot of our fans are like that.

Seems like they want a wine and cheese environment mixed with a sunday school session

---

Our 2019 and 2021 teams hit as hard as any Briles team ever did. And they did so without the undisciplined/unsportsmanlike bull**** many in our fanbase mistook for "swagger."

You don't have to run your program like the U or Barry Switzer's Oklahoma to be successful. That was a bug, not a feature, of the Art Briles Baylor program, and it ended up doing him in.

I am a Baylor fan with the most game-going effort toward football and mens basketball . My decision to drive 2 hours and give up my Saturday or hunting or my kid's athletic event, especially for an 11 a.m. game is 100% about whether the team has a chance of winning or they are employing a strategy that allows them to win.

My decision to come has never once been made for any other reason other than crazy bad weather. Music played, tailgate costs, uniforms, stodgy fans, concessions, game day presentation., etc.. - I have opinions and ideas on it but I can't even understand that ever making a difference on coming to a game or not.

But you can also have some passion. I think many posters are bringing up the fact that some of the old blue hairs don't like celebrating at all in any way shape or form, be it players or fans. Briles' coached an edge that bled off the field but there's plenty of quality humans off the field who play with an edge on it. Hines Ward?

Obviously winning is first and foremost for probably everyone but the aforementioned other stuff assists to keep some fans returning and better engage students who typically channel the atmosphere

boykin_spaniel said:

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But you can also have some passion. I think many posters are bringing up the fact that some of the old blue hairs don't like celebrating at all in any way shape or form, be it players or fans. Briles' coached an edge that bled off the field but there's plenty of quality humans off the field who play with an edge on it. Hines Ward?

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People keep talking about "an edge that bled off the field," when the truth is Briles' Baylor program was undisciplined and largely unaccountable at every level, in every space.

Briles was a great offensive mind, who not only couldn't be bothered to lead a program like a competent administrator, he went to great lengths to avoid having to. His program was a powder keg waiting for a spark.

bear2be2 said:

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boykin_spaniel said:

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But you can also have some passion. I think many posters are bringing up the fact that some of the old blue hairs don't like celebrating at all in any way shape or form, be it players or fans. Briles' coached an edge that bled off the field but there's plenty of quality humans off the field who play with an edge on it. Hines Ward?

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People keep talking about "an edge that bled off the field," when the truth is Briles' Baylor program was undisciplined and largely unaccountable at every level, in every space.

Briles was a great offensive mind, who not only couldn't be bothered to lead a program like a competent administrator, he went to great lengths to avoid having to. His program was a powder keg waiting for a spark.

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Full hard untreatable with facts ADS

One of the best threads I've seen on here in awhile.

bear2be2 said:

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boykin_spaniel said:

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But you can also have some passion. I think many posters are bringing up the fact that some of the old blue hairs don't like celebrating at all in any way shape or form, be it players or fans. Briles' coached an edge that bled off the field but there's plenty of quality humans off the field who play with an edge on it. Hines Ward?

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People keep talking about "an edge that bled off the field," when the truth is Briles' Baylor program was undisciplined and largely unaccountable at every level, in every space.

Briles was a great offensive mind, who not only couldn't be bothered to lead a program like a competent administrator, he went to great lengths to avoid having to. His program was a powder keg waiting for a spark.

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This last paragraph is just full opinion with accusation. You don't know he couldn't be bothered to lead a program and went to great lengths not to. That is a hell of an accusation. Baylor problems then were administration issues. When a title 9 system is not created all the HC can do is not play people and kick them off the team which he did and advise complainants to call law enforcement. He did not have authority to kick people off campus.

Redbrickbear said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Obviously winning is the biggest driver.

But Baylor's personality (an incredibly nebulous concept, I admit) is also part of the issue. I was surprised how many old Baylor folks were uncomfortable with the team under Briles prior to the "unpleasantness." And a lot of those attitudes surfaced during the unpleasantness. He let his players really show their personalities. Sometimes it was messy. On the field and off the field. Ahmad Dixon was a great example. East Waco boy. You could love him (I did), or he could really grind your gears (mainly only bothered me when he was too busy celebrating to play the next play). He talked trash and celebrated a lot. He jacked up Trevon Boykin at TCU and celebrated as he was booed out of the stadium. (I was at that one - frankly it may have helped us win the game). But most people either enjoy that or really resent it and have a lot of connotations about it (nice way to say it). That big swaggering personality of the team, letting players influence uniform creativity, a general let-er-rip attitude ... lots of Baylor fans and certainly most of the Waco fan base rallied around that, and it was ton of fun.

But a lot of Baylor people flat didn't like it. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had Baylor fans ask me to sit down or shush me or someone around me at a game. ......

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I will say it for you.

Its because Baylor (as a school and fan base) is soft and white collar.

I loved watching those guys hit the hell out of people and become a feared program that was down right mean at times.

We went up 30 points on a team and I wanted them to keep throwing for the end zone and go up by another 30

We as a school and fan base we are SMU mixed with Oral Roberts.

Our leadership is like that...and alot of our fans are like that.

Seems like they want a wine and cheese environment mixed with a sunday school session

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Its an interesting mix. I will say though the avg median income for students at BU (over the last decade or so) is actually right around the same as the avg A&M and UT Student. More scholarship kids from different backrounds which I think is a good thing. Now the religiousity aspect probably makes that mix a bit goofier than the UT/A&M mix but still not really the same mix as a SMU or TCU anymore.

BU does have a lot of legacies and country clubbers who pay full price (for whatever reason) and that helps pay the bills. Also has a higher than typical mix of kids who went through private school system throughout their life.. higher than the other state schools mentioned. TCU students' avg household income is much higher than BU's and SMU's is in a world of its own. So there is actual potential with the younger fanbase as the school is much larger and much closer to reality than TCU or SMU.. although large remnants of those fan bases are in BU's mix.

But overall yes the fan base is fairly soft no doubt. Winning will still largely fix it but there are some aspects you described that make it a strange at times cornier than typical fan base.