Has Baylor "quiet quit" on football?

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BUATX2000
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5:33a, 12/5/23
A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.
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hodedofome
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6:09a, 12/5/23
How much more do we have to pay off McLane stadium?
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Realitybites
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6:10a, 12/5/23
It's entirely possible. The Vanderbilt of the Big 12.

This article was written four years ago and since then the pressure on FBS programs to perform has only increased.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/1/31/18200696/fbs-membership-leave-fcs
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drahthaar
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7:08a, 12/5/23
Either way, there's a hard landing coming for BU football.
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bear2be2
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In reply to BUATX2000 • 7:13a, 12/5/23
BUATX2000 said:
A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.
The relegation happened when Texas and OU left the Big 12 and Big Ten killed the PAC.

Guys, we're already in the second tier and are in no danger of falling further.

Baylor hasn't quit football. Our NIL operation is in line with our Big 12 peers, and if Aranda fails this year, we'll go out and throw upwards of $4 million per year at another coach.

Enjoy the Big 12 and stop worrying about where we fit on the national scene. The P2 is already here and we're not part of it.
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Aberzombie1892
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In reply to BUATX2000 • 7:20a, 12/5/23
BUATX2000 said:
A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.
Baylor had an extraordinary run of luck between Art Briles, Matt Rhule, and the first two years of Dave Aranda, and that string of luck may have created unrealistic expectations for the program among some of the posters here, and, further, the landscape of college football has changed dramatically in last few years (P2 consolidation, transfer portal, NIL, removal of recruiting class scholarship limit, more P5s - in the ACC and the Big are now or will soon be playing conference games in Texas, the specific elevation of Houston/SMU to P5 status, Baylor's loss of its relatively recent status as the closest P5 to Dallas, legacy Big 12 teams taking a two year pay cut in order to pay Houston/BYU/Cincinnati/UCF, etc.) and those changes in aggregate undoubtedly are having a negative impact on Baylor.

The core challenge with all of that is that it's not clear what the new baseline will be because many of those changes are still in the process of occurring and haven't completed yet - UT/OU are currently Big 12 members, SMU does not elevate to P5 until year, Baylor's first reduced Big 12 payout is next year, etc.
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BUATX2000
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In reply to bear2be2 • 7:28a, 12/5/23
bear2be2 said:
BUATX2000 said:
A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.
The relegation happened when Texas and OU left the Big 12 and Big Ten killed the PAC.

Guys, we're already in the second tier and are in no danger of falling further.

Baylor hasn't quit football. Our NIL operation is in line with our Big 12 peers, and if Aranda fails this year, we'll go out and throw upwards of $4 million per year at another coach.

Enjoy the Big 12 and stop worrying about where we fit on the national scene. The P2 is already here and we're not part of it.


Ah yes…the P2 with such storied franchises as Vanderbilt, Mississippi state, South Carolina, Rutgers, Maryland, Illinois, northwestern, Perdue, Indiana (the most losing football program of all time)….

3/4 of the P2 exists for the sole purpose of propping up the other 1/4 by serving as cannon fodder.

A 12 team playoff almost guarantees a spot for at least 1, possibly 2 big12 teams. I am not complaining about that.

What I am saying is that it seems Baylor isn't even interested in competing for relevance in this new Big12.
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BellCountyBear
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In reply to bear2be2 • 7:38a, 12/5/23
bear2be2 said:
BUATX2000 said:
A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.
The relegation happened when Texas and OU left the Big 12 and Big Ten killed the PAC.

Guys, we're already in the second tier and are in no danger of falling further.

Baylor hasn't quit football. Our NIL operation is in line with our Big 12 peers, and if Aranda fails this year, we'll go out and throw upwards of $4 million per year at another coach.

Enjoy the Big 12 and stop worrying about where we fit on the national scene. The P2 is already here and we're not part of it.
I don't always agree with bear2be2, but when I do, it's this.
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PartyBear
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7:43a, 12/5/23
The premise is off in the first place. Waving the white towel on NIL? We finally just in the past couple of weeks started working in getting our act together in that. That is the opposite of waving the white towel. We are offering a lot of guys in the portal as well despite the implied claim in the OP that we are ignoring the portal.
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TinFoilHatPreacherBear
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7:58a, 12/5/23
The premise that the new OC would leave his current gig for a school like the OP described doesn't make much sense.
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BigGameBaylorBear
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8:09a, 12/5/23
Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?
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oorahpa
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8:17a, 12/5/23
Linda is Woke and has shown no interest in returning Baylor to our former position in football.
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guadalupeoso
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In reply to oorahpa • 8:26a, 12/5/23
oorahpa said:
Linda is Woke and has shown no interest in returning Baylor to our former position in football.
We literally had the best season in school history during her tenure as president. literally.
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oorahpa
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8:27a, 12/5/23
Proof in Baylor leadership will come in the portal. We have large talent needs both in quality and quantity. Dave' recruiting has been poor since Joey and Blanchard left. Have we become competitive on the portal world or is it all talk and back the portal Prius up to the loading dock? Dave/Mack and Linda have been all talk and no action in the past. The hole Dave has dug will require a massive repair job. Is Dave up to it? Are Linda and Mack up to it. Very doubtful based on past performance. Time will time but not expecting much improvement from this group.
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drahthaar
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In reply to BigGameBaylorBear • 8:29a, 12/5/23
BigGameBaylorBear said:
Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?
This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.
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oorahpa
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8:34a, 12/5/23
Proof in Baylor leadership will come in the portal. We have large talent needs both in quality and quantity. Dave' recruiting has been poor since Joey and Blanchard left. Have we become competitive on the portal world or is it all talk and back the portal Prius up to the loading dock? Dave/Mack and Linda have been all talk and no action in the past. The hole Dave has dug will require a massive repair job. Is Dave up to it? Are Linda and Mack up to it. Very doubtful based on past performance. Time will time but not expecting much improvement from this group.
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guadalupeoso
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In reply to drahthaar • 8:34a, 12/5/23
drahthaar said:
BigGameBaylorBear said:
Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?
This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.
Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.
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Daveisabovereproach
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8:41a, 12/5/23
I alternate between feeling like we've decided to stop competing at a high-level, and feeling like we have career academics in leadership positions that aren't good at their jobs. Not sure which one it is. Maybe both? That's scary
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to drahthaar • 8:44a, 12/5/23
drahthaar said:
BigGameBaylorBear said:
Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?
Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.


That to me is a sign that while Baylor leadership does want to win…they are also placing scandal-free at a higher priority.

They will take no risks and take no chances with a repeat of the disasters of 2016. (Of course many of those disasters were of their own making like not having a title XI office)

So they have not given up on winning…its just lower on the priority list
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chriscbear
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8:45a, 12/5/23
I wonder about this too .
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Daveisabovereproach
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In reply to BellCountyBear • 8:48a, 12/5/23
BellCountyBear said:
bear2be2 said:
BUATX2000 said:
A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.
The relegation happened when Texas and OU left the Big 12 and Big Ten killed the PAC.

Guys, we're already in the second tier and are in no danger of falling further.

Baylor hasn't quit football. Our NIL operation is in line with our Big 12 peers, and if Aranda fails this year, we'll go out and throw upwards of $4 million per year at another coach.

Enjoy the Big 12 and stop worrying about where we fit on the national scene. The P2 is already here and we're not part of it.
I don't always agree with bear2be2, but when I do, it's this.


except it's pure speculation. No one on this board knows the true story and the actual figures associated with our NIL program much less the NIL programs of every other big 12 school
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oorahpa
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8:51a, 12/5/23
The problems have caught Baylor by surprise since the Sugar Bowl. Progressive leadership has been nonexistent. Dave's coaching and recruiting have led us from the top of our league to the very bottom. A totally nonrelivant Woke NIL program was a joke. Are we really competing in NIL now? Our team has never looked this poor in years. Talent level has diminished. Coaching level has diminished. Both have been an embarrassing product to watch. Dave/Mack/Linda have been given everything they need to stay on top and have led us to the bottom. The portal situation will tell us if our leadership has changed course. I am hoping for the best but bracing for the worst. Texas Football.will be projecting us as a one or two win team this coming year. Baylor's problems are very deep. Have a low confidence level in our leadership's vision or ability to fix it.
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bear2be2
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In reply to BUATX2000 • 8:55a, 12/5/23
BUATX2000 said:
bear2be2 said:
BUATX2000 said:
A lot of what I am seeing from a leadership decision perspective feels a lot like Baylor is waiving the white flag on football in the NIL era.

Keeping a .500 coach (who has had 3 losing seasons in 4 years)

The new OC claiming that the roster we have is good enough to win, when those same players were amongst the bottom of the league in all meaningful metrics.

A generally rudderless style of leadership out of the AD with respect to the fan experience

Is it just that the cost to field and retain a sufficiently talented roster is too much and we would rather focus on basketball?

Maybe the play is to collect as much big12 money as possible for the next decade before getting relegated to the second tier, where we will be able to compete for the Magnolia cup against the likes of tulane, rice, Tulsa and UTEP.
The relegation happened when Texas and OU left the Big 12 and Big Ten killed the PAC.

Guys, we're already in the second tier and are in no danger of falling further.

Baylor hasn't quit football. Our NIL operation is in line with our Big 12 peers, and if Aranda fails this year, we'll go out and throw upwards of $4 million per year at another coach.

Enjoy the Big 12 and stop worrying about where we fit on the national scene. The P2 is already here and we're not part of it.


Ah yes…the P2 with such storied franchises as Vanderbilt, Mississippi state, South Carolina, Rutgers, Maryland, Illinois, northwestern, Perdue, Indiana (the most losing football program of all time)….

3/4 of the P2 exists for the sole purpose of propping up the other 1/4 by serving as cannon fodder.

A 12 team playoff almost guarantees a spot for at least 1, possibly 2 big12 teams. I am not complaining about that.

What I am saying is that it seems Baylor isn't even interested in competing for relevance in this new Big12.
I don't think there's any hard evidence to support your premise that we're not committed to competing at a high level in the Big 12 in the long run/big picture.

I think the decision to retain Aranda was twofold. A) The administration loves the guy (he checks every Baylor box if he can win) and wants to give him every opportunity to succeed. And B) the buyout was enough to prevent a quick trigger.

At this point, that is what it is. He's got one extra make or break season to keep his job. But if he fails, I fully expect us to go get the best coach we can and support him in the same ways we have Rhule and Aranda.
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oorahpa
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9:05a, 12/5/23
Our stadium was built by Art Briles. Much of the campus improvements were built on the back of Art Briles. Football pulls the finances. Our current leadership built non of this. Our current leadership has created our current team which is at the bottom of the Big 12. Today's football is about what you are building today. Are today's decisions building a competitive team? The opportunities are available but it will require a complete change in direction from all the Woke leadership we have had the last several years. The BOR bears great responsibility also but they li e in the shadows.

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BigCheese83
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9:13a, 12/5/23
I don't think building a new state of the art training facility is "quiet quitting"
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blackie
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9:29a, 12/5/23
The answer to the question in the title of the post is no. Several have indicated why and I won't take the space to repeat it. Baylor was never going to be in the P2 regardless of what we do / did on the field. Unless you can magically increase our alumni 10 fold, that (P2), is never going and never was going to happen. If your standing is based on being in P2, you need to find another school to support because it is never going to happen regardless of what the administration wants or does.

And.....please take this "woke" crap to the R&P board. You probably have neighbors and friends that you like that if truth be known under your definition you would label as "woke" because of how they feel about society. Perhaps if more of us old codgers had been a little "woke" growing up we wouldn't have the absolute disaster of a society we have today. That is all I am going to say about it because it really has no place on the sports boards.
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Chamberman
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In reply to oorahpa • 9:30a, 12/5/23
oorahpa said:
Our stadium was built by Art Briles. Much of the campus improvements were built on the back of Art Briles.
If you changed Art Briles to RG3, then I'd agree with you. Beyond his Heisman trophy win, a couple of conference championships does not build a stadium.
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Big_Pumpin
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9:31a, 12/5/23
The only quitters I see are the whiny fans!
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BUATX2000
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In reply to guadalupeoso • 9:35a, 12/5/23
guadalupeoso said:
drahthaar said:
BigGameBaylorBear said:
Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?
This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.
Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.


Hitler made his intentions exceedingly clear in his rambling diatribe Mein Kampf a decade before the first German soldier crossed the border into Poland. He made his intentions clear when he burned the reichstag in order to consolidate power and do away with the unfortunate democracy he was bound by. He made his intentions clear when he "annexed" parts of the Sudetenland and Austria. He did most of it all to thunderous applause or at least tacit approval from a German population unwilling to resist.

It's a far ****ing stretch for me to draw parallels here, but since you opened the door…

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Daveisabovereproach
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9:51a, 12/5/23
Everyone is talking about NIL and facilities, but how about we focus on the elephant in the room. We just retained an epic failure of a head coach that has admitted in multiple interviews that he doesn't know how to get the team fired up, that he was responsible for not using NIL, that he didn't realize that running up tempo passing on offense could offset having a poor offensive line, and that he wishes that wins were determined by which team wanted it more. We were then promised a "major overhaul" of the coaching staff, and Dave fired a grand total of two coaches…..and objectively not even the worst ones. He fired the coaches that Mack called out midway through the season. Coincidence?

Facilities are a great thing to have, and I am glad that we have the donors that are willing to pony up money for them. But you build facilities to WIN GAMES. Case in point, I guarantee you that no one on here was goofy enough to brag about the new fudge center to their Texas Tech acquaintances the Monday after they beat us. No one was bragging about our commensurate NIL program to TCU fans when they destroyed us

and the only argument that could be made for keeping said failure of a coach is that we couldn't afford something like 20 million (on the high end - no one knows the exact number) to get rid of him. We now have the worst FBS head coach in the entire state. The other terrible coach just got replaced by an actual good coach (Willie Fritz), so we have that to look forward to
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guadalupeoso
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In reply to BUATX2000 • 9:59a, 12/5/23
BUATX2000 said:
guadalupeoso said:
drahthaar said:
BigGameBaylorBear said:
Finally investing in our NIL and building a new football facility is giving up?
This is essential in today's football world no matter the competitive levels so all assumptions are on the table until "they" make clear "their" intentions. Micromanaging recruiting via "character assessments" with a low threshold of mistakes/bad choices/indiscretions is an unrealistic method of "going big" in college athletics and perhaps even in the business world. Who knows with all the closed-shop mindsets emanating out of Pat Neff.
Until Hitler made his intentions totally clear by invading Poland, all assumptions were on the table.

I think taking specific action with NIL and new football facilities, even if it is just a necessary action, is still an action that shows we have not "given up" on the football program. Essentially what you are saying is, "Until we actually win, it's fair to assume that we don't want to win." Which just doesn't make any sense.


Hitler made his intentions exceedingly clear in his rambling diatribe Mein Kampf a decade before the first German soldier crossed the border into Poland. He made his intentions clear when he burned the reichstag in order to consolidate power and do away with the unfortunate democracy he was bound by. He made his intentions clear when he "annexed" parts of the Sudetenland and Austria. He did most of it all to thunderous applause or at least tacit approval from a German population unwilling to resist.

It's a far ****ing stretch for me to draw parallels here, but since you opened the door…

You are proving my point. There were plenty of signs that their intentions are clear based on actions that have been taken to try and make us competitive. Results and intentions are two separate things and the original post was conflating the two.
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to TinFoilHatPreacherBear • 10:00a, 12/5/23
TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:
The premise that the new OC would leave his current gig for a school like the OP described doesn't make much sense.
The premise that any OC would come here with AD and HC hanging by a thread means they were rather desperate knowing program is unstable.
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Aliceinbubbleland
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In reply to Big_Pumpin • 10:01a, 12/5/23
Big_Pumpin said:
The only quitters I see are the whiny fans!
Sunshine pumpers are only few left.
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Dia del DougO
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10:05a, 12/5/23
Probably more like kicked the can down the road than quit.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
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wongobear
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10:32a, 12/5/23
I don't think we've quit. Honestly, the very young offseason is actually going better than I expected. However, I DO think that our leadership probably regards football as a very expensive marketing tool as opposed to the Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones style of "spend whatever it takes to win" mentality. (If those examples are even true anymore).

I'm also in the "relegation has already happened" camp. Gotta face the truth at some point.
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