As I read these last few comments, it is so refreshing to hear all these positive comments from you people who obviously love Baylor so much !
Is it at all possible you have any thing else positive to say?

For you critics, apparently some, no, a lot of students and their parents are trying hard to have the Baylor experience, as I did, and willing to sacrifice/pay the price to do so. Colleges, state and private supported are closing their doors every semester due to low enrollment/financing.

Seems like there are always and forever will be those who are ready to criticize/hate winners. Baylor continues to thrive despite the odds and its critics.
Thank you for not being one???? And please understand I truly am not trying to argue with you; I'm just proving I am right.
After all we're all taught to love one another as He loved us.

I was told that 80% of incoming freshmen get some kind of scholarship.

Clearly we are getting all of those applications because of the success of our 3-9 football team

Apparently, at least to a lot of people, it doesn't.
""Just so far as we are pleased at finding faults, are we displeased at finding perfection" is something some may need to understand, or perhaps not?

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Baylor is a Texas Ivy.

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LOL

So we're going through this right now. My eldest is a senior and he applied on a hope and prayer with no real idea that we would be able to afford it. He has exceptional test scores, solid gpa, and loads of accolades. He was accepted and offered scholarships and grants that equaled less than half of the roughly $78k price tag.

That wasn't going to work for us BUT then he was awarded the full 4 year Army ROTC scholarship to any of his top three schools including BU! We went from Baylor being a dream to a certainty and I could not be more proud and excited to have my son committed to Baylor and then to serving our country.

Private school economics are a strange beast. It seems the greater the endowment, the higher the sticker price, AND the greater the availability of financial aid. If you qualify for ANY need based aid (less than $220k household income give or take) and you're an exceptional student, schools like Rice, U of Chicago, John's Hopkins, will be massively reduced and likely to carry a price tag similar to or better than state schools. Baylor doesn't have that level of funding but they essentially work off the same formula but even more selective. If you don't have government defined need and stellar academics, or out of this world academics, Baylor will be an expensive proposition for you.

ScrappyPaws said:

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So we're going through this right now. My eldest is a senior and he applied on a hope and prayer with no real idea that we would be able to afford it. He has exceptional test scores, solid gpa, and loads of accolades. He was accepted and offered scholarships and grants that equaled less than half of the roughly $78k price tag.

That wasn't going to work for us BUT then he was awarded the full 4 year Army ROTC scholarship to any of his top three schools including BU! We went from Baylor being a dream to a certainty and I could not be more proud and excited to have my son committed to Baylor and then to serving our country.

Private school economics are a strange beast. It seems the greater the endowment, the higher the sticker price, AND the greater the availability of financial aid. If you qualify for ANY need based aid (less than $220k household income give or take) and you're an exceptional student, schools like Rice, U of Chicago, John's Hopkins, will be massively reduced and likely to carry a price tag similar to or better than state schools. Baylor doesn't have that level of funding but they essentially work off the same formula but even more selective. If you don't have government defined need and stellar academics, or out of this world academics, Baylor will be an expensive proposition for you.

---

Just a side note about the perceived value... with the continued leftward movement of higher education as a whole, Baylor is among a select few universities that provide a top tier education from a more balanced perspective. The Wake Forests and Vanderbilts of the world also fit that niche. But a top tier school that also openly supports spiritual development. Only Baylor and Notre Dame come to mind. That makes the price tag worth it for many. We couldn't have done it no matter how much we wanted to had he not been awarded the ROTC scholarship.

The demand for a Baylor education has never been higher. #SicEm 🟩🟨

We saw that last fall, when BU received 56,000+ applications for Fall 2024 -- and again Saturday, when 3,500 prospective students & family members were on campus for Premiere:https://t.co/kMw36OIqa9

— BaylorProud (@BaylorProud) April 16, 2024

ScrappyPaws said:

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ScrappyPaws said:

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So we're going through this right now. My eldest is a senior and he applied on a hope and prayer with no real idea that we would be able to afford it. He has exceptional test scores, solid gpa, and loads of accolades. He was accepted and offered scholarships and grants that equaled less than half of the roughly $78k price tag.

That wasn't going to work for us BUT then he was awarded the full 4 year Army ROTC scholarship to any of his top three schools including BU! We went from Baylor being a dream to a certainty and I could not be more proud and excited to have my son committed to Baylor and then to serving our country.

Private school economics are a strange beast. It seems the greater the endowment, the higher the sticker price, AND the greater the availability of financial aid. If you qualify for ANY need based aid (less than $220k household income give or take) and you're an exceptional student, schools like Rice, U of Chicago, John's Hopkins, will be massively reduced and likely to carry a price tag similar to or better than state schools. Baylor doesn't have that level of funding but they essentially work off the same formula but even more selective. If you don't have government defined need and stellar academics, or out of this world academics, Baylor will be an expensive proposition for you.

---

Just a side note about the perceived value... with the continued leftward movement of higher education as a whole, Baylor is among a select few universities that provide a top tier education from a more balanced perspective. The Wake Forests and Vanderbilts of the world also fit that niche. But a top tier school that also openly supports spiritual development. Only Baylor and Notre Dame come to mind. That makes the price tag worth it for many. We couldn't have done it no matter how much we wanted to had he not been awarded the ROTC scholarship.

---

I can see that as a big selling point for Baylor.

But not being on campus anymore... I am not sure how much Baylor is actually standing up to ideological drift toward the Left.

Baylor seems to be selling conservatism to moderate & conservative families...but I'm not sure they practice what they are selling that much anymore.

While Baylor has undoubtedly drifted to the left ideologically, it is actually more traditional/conservative compared to its peers because most other comparable private schools have become dramatically more liberal.

For example, a poster above addressed Vanderbilt and Wake Forest. Children of some of our close friends attend Wake and Vandy, and it is shocking how woke both schools became through Covid and the Black Lives Matter events. TCU has fully abandoned any pretense at being a Christian university and has fully embraced the transgender "rights" movement. So, in a relative sense, Baylor is basically Abilene Christian or Dallas Baptist compared to other private schools

I transferred from a northeastern public school to Baylor around covid. It was the best decision i ever made. The Christian mission is still legit and I could probably count on two hands the amount of kids who were openly liberal that I knew

I was at Baylor for an awards ceremony yesterday. Dr. Livingstone spoke as well as others. The leadership has a monumental task of balancing laws and regulations, their Christian beliefs and glorifying God, and alumni/parents/students. I can't imagine the stress or difficulty. I do know that as a parent of a May graduate and a current junior, I have never been sorry. Baylor is an unapologetically Christian university, and it has been a great fit for my students. We did the TCU tour as well, and they couldn't distance themselves fast enough from religion. As a parent, paying has been painful, especially when state schools would have been free for one and mostly for the other. However, I am thankful they have been/are at Baylor. We have become huge Baylor fans in the process.

Fre3dombear said:

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chorne68 said:

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In 1964 enrollment was 6000, my dorm room cost $75 per semester, and tuition was $25 per semester hour. Glad my folks did not have to pay todays rates.

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Once government turbocharged the price making it free well, here we are lol

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The federal government ruins everything.

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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I transferred from a northeastern public school to Baylor around covid. It was the best decision i ever made. The Christian mission is still legit and I could probably count on two hands the amount of kids who were openly liberal that I knew

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Redbrick has demonstrated he has no interest in your first hand accounts of what life is actually life on campus.

BellCountyBear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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chorne68 said:

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In 1964 enrollment was 6000, my dorm room cost $75 per semester, and tuition was $25 per semester hour. Glad my folks did not have to pay todays rates.

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Once government turbocharged the price making it free well, here we are lol

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The federal government ruins everything.

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You're not wrong

Aberzombie1892 said:

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The comments in this thread, and general economics, make it clear that if the federal government stopped guaranteeing student loans, Baylor would probably be a casualty of that as Baylor cannot justify its costs in any quantitative manner.

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That's true gif most colleges & universities in the country including state schools.

Edmond Bear said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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I transferred from a northeastern public school to Baylor around covid. It was the best decision i ever made. The Christian mission is still legit and I could probably count on two hands the amount of kids who were openly liberal that I knew

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Redbrick has demonstrated he has no interest in your first hand accounts of what life is actually life on campus.

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I'm certainly interested in such 1st hand accounts and have never said they are not real reflections of personal experience.

Though I have personally spoken to a much younger cousin on campus and young guys in the fraternity I was in that paint a much darker version of what is going on at Baylor and a much more Liberal politicized atmosphere on campus.

Why did you feel the need to chime in to misrepresent my views?

BellCountyBear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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chorne68 said:

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In 1964 enrollment was 6000, my dorm room cost $75 per semester, and tuition was $25 per semester hour. Glad my folks did not have to pay todays rates.

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Once government turbocharged the price making it free well, here we are lol

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The federal government ruins everything.

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Or at the least makes everything more expensive

That is one way to ruin things

Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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I transferred from a northeastern public school to Baylor around covid. It was the best decision i ever made. The Christian mission is still legit and I could probably count on two hands the amount of kids who were openly liberal that I knew

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Redbrick has demonstrated he has no interest in your first hand accounts of what life is actually life on campus.

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I'm certainly interested in such 1st hand accounts and have never said they are not real reflections of personal experience.

Though I have personally spoken to a much younger cousin on campus and young guys in the fraternity I was in that paint a much darker version of what is going on at Baylor and a much more Liberal politicized atmosphere on campus.

Why did you feel the need to chime in to misrepresent my views?

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Because you have been given first hand accounts and completely gloss over them. You repeat the same lines over and over across multiple threads as if proof of faith and a Christian emphasis hasn't been given to you over and over.

You add your thoughts about how liberal you believe Baylor has become in threads that are discussing a different topic until people have to tell you to drop the politics.

I don't think I am misrepresenting your views.

Edmond Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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I transferred from a northeastern public school to Baylor around covid. It was the best decision i ever made. The Christian mission is still legit and I could probably count on two hands the amount of kids who were openly liberal that I knew

---

Redbrick has demonstrated he has no interest in your first hand accounts of what life is actually life on campus.

---

I'm certainly interested in such 1st hand accounts and have never said they are not real reflections of personal experience.

Though I have personally spoken to a much younger cousin on campus and young guys in the fraternity I was in that paint a much darker version of what is going on at Baylor and a much more Liberal politicized atmosphere on campus.

Why did you feel the need to chime in to misrepresent my views?

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Because you have been given first hand accounts and completely gloss over them...

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When did I "gloss over" his views or say he was wrong on this thread?

You just injected in a made up narrative on my part based on what you believe my posting history is on other threads.

I'm not sure why you are so triggered by my views on other threads instead of sticking to the point of this thread

Look at your wording, 'a darker version,' a 'liberal politicized atmosphere.' You sound like the fundamentalists who sat in religion classes with tape recorders (yes, tape recorders) years ago.

Over time, I have listed dozens of positives driven by Admin that focus on worship, evangelism, spreading truth from scripture, counseling, serving, and on and on. But, you've dismissed all of it as marketing. I have provided first hand accounts to show it's not just marketing. But, you arrive in a different thread, repeating the same misrepresentation and ignoring what was put in front of you.

For some reason, the good stuff doesn't matter. You just ignore it. Only the things you perceive as bad make Liberal Linda move Baylor to the left and not a Christian school anymore.

I provided a list showing that Baylor has less emphasis on DEI than virtually every other Christian school in the US. Made no dent. You were in another thread that day talking about DEI at Baylor.

You constantly inject your politics where it's not asked and if the word 'left' or 'right' is thrown out, you come with your misrepresentation.

I have never suggested that Baylor is perfect. It's clearly not. But, it is also not a bible college. It is a university loaded with a variety of viewpoints, some of which are left-leaning but still retaining a focus on Christian faith.

But, guess what, it has always been that way. There was a reason fundies brought tape recorders.

Edmond Bear said:

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Look at your wording, 'a darker version,' a 'liberal politicized atmosphere.' You sound like the fundamentalists who sat in religion classes with tape recorders (yes, tape recorders) years ago.

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I thought "glossing over" or "dismissing" peoples views was a bad thing?

Were you not just complaining and kvetching about that?

You are of course entitled to your personal views about Baylor and its political direction.

Why does it trigger you so much if I have a different perspective?

You are literally screaming angry that people don't just accept your view....

You also said Baylor did NOT have DEI at all… now you are backtracking and saying we have DEI but it's less than peer institutions…which is it?

Coming soon to Baylor's campus: A new Baptist Student Ministry center! 🐻⛪️

The new building will go up at Daughtrey & Fourth Street. Today, Baylor deeded the land to @TexasBaptists, who will see the building to completion: https://t.co/1wxcrvZvcT pic.twitter.com/6gFf0hvPCF

— Baylor University (@Baylor) April 18, 2024

Pretty building. Us Catholics need to one up the Baptists with a massive cathedral right on campus

boognish_bear said:

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Coming soon to Baylor's campus: A new Baptist Student Ministry center! 🐻⛪️

The new building will go up at Daughtrey & Fourth Street. Today, Baylor deeded the land to @TexasBaptists, who will see the building to completion: https://t.co/1wxcrvZvcT pic.twitter.com/6gFf0hvPCF

— Baylor University (@Baylor) April 18, 2024

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Looks nice

Wish it was going where the old ugly Bobo building is

Baylor's not competing against itself 30, 40, or 50 years ago, like most of you keep making comparisons to.

Tuition rates across the country were driven up by Federal government's guarantee of student loan programs over the past 20 years or so. Increased demand drove up price. Baylor would have been foolish to not follow suit with the rest of the market.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

Maybe they've fixed that, maybe not. Only time will tell.

Chamberman said:

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Baylor's not competing against itself 30, 40, or 50 years ago, like most of you keep making comparisons to.

Tuition rates across the country were driven up by Federal government's guarantee of student loan programs over the past 20 years or so. Increased demand drove up price. Baylor would have been foolish to not follow suit with the rest of the market.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

Maybe they've fixed that, maybe not. Only time will tell.

---

According to Bloomberg, Baylor University admits the highest percentage of legacy students in the United States, with 32% of students being relatives of alumni

Chamberman said:

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Baylor's not competing against itself 30, 40, or 50 years ago, like most of you keep making comparisons to.

Tuition rates across the country were driven up by Federal government's guarantee of student loan programs over the past 20 years or so. Increased demand drove up price. Baylor would have been foolish to not follow suit with the rest of the market.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

Maybe they've fixed that, maybe not. Only time will tell.

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I don't understand this.

Baylor cannot force alumni to choose certain majors, so, if someone wants to pay $50-60k/year in tuition to major in the humanities or nursing, who is Baylor to tell them "no"? Further and despite would some schools will try to imply, salaries - both starting and mid career - vary by region, and this means that comparing starting salaries of Baylor alumni vs alumni of SanFran, NY, or LA based schools would just be silly as TX cost of living is much lower than that of NY or CA for now.

Separately, as the poster indicates above, a massive amount of Baylor's student body is filled with relatives/friends of alumni, and that's concerning as it would appear that Baylor struggles to sell itself to non-biased prospective students.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Chamberman said:

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Baylor's not competing against itself 30, 40, or 50 years ago, like most of you keep making comparisons to.

Tuition rates across the country were driven up by Federal government's guarantee of student loan programs over the past 20 years or so. Increased demand drove up price. Baylor would have been foolish to not follow suit with the rest of the market.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

Maybe they've fixed that, maybe not. Only time will tell.

---

I don't understand this.

Baylor cannot force alumni to choose certain majors, so, if someone wants to pay $50-60k/year in tuition to major in the humanities or nursing, who is Baylor to tell them "no"? Further and despite would some schools will try to imply, salaries - both starting and mid career - vary by region, and this means that comparing starting salaries of Baylor alumni vs alumni of SanFran, NY, or LA based schools would just be silly as TX cost of living is much lower than that of NY or CA for now.

Separately, as the poster indicates above, a massive amount of Baylor's student body is filled with relatives/friends of alumni, and that's concerning as it would appear that Baylor struggles to sell itself to non-biased prospective students.

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I don't understand how someone could come to a thread about the record number of applications and come to the conclusion that Baylor is struggling to sell itself to non-alumni.

The point of the legacy admission stat is that alumni are so pleased with their experience that they are sending their kids there.

Chamberman said:

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Tuition rates across the country were driven up by Federal government's guarantee of student loan programs over the past 20 years or so. Increased demand drove up price. Baylor would have been foolish to not follow suit with the rest of the market.

A bigger indictment on Baylor would be that it's own alumni don't have careers that have allowed their incomes to grow at a pace to permit their next generations to be able to afford to attend. That's the failure of past Baylor.

---

Yea when everyone else is raising prices and going on a building boom you kind of have to do it as well...or you get left behind.

But it does remind me of the California affect.

My mother in law was talking to a guy who just moved his family to Texas and he was saying how it was just far too expensive in California for his kids to go to the university he went to or buy a home.

But in Texas it was affordable to him...but the prices were catching up fast.

I told my MIL yea Im sure a lot of Texas people will soon be feeling that same thing....unable to pass down the life they had to their kids.

Even now I don't see how I could possibly send my kids to Baylor...its just not financially possible.

Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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Look at your wording, 'a darker version,' a 'liberal politicized atmosphere.' You sound like the fundamentalists who sat in religion classes with tape recorders (yes, tape recorders) years ago.

---

I thought "glossing over" or "dismissing" peoples views was a bad thing?

Were you not just complaining and kvetching about that?

You are of course entitled to your personal views about Baylor and its political direction.

Why does it trigger you so much if I have a different perspective?

You are literally steaming angry that people don't just accept your view....

You also said Baylor did NOT have DEI at all… now you are backtracking and saying we have it but it's less than peer institutions…which is it?

---

I'm not angry that people don't accept my view. I noted that Baylor is full of differing views and I'm cool with that.

But, when most people have evidence or new information put in front of them, they modify their opinions. You just disregard evidence that doesn't fit your narrative and keep trolling along with the same statements.

About Baylor and DEI, I said they did not have any staff dedicated to it. They do have a committee and every student, including my 2 daughters, has to take a 30 minute class on equality and inclusivity. I'm aware that there is some form of it on campus and have addressed that with you before. Again, just ignored.

Edmond Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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Look at your wording, 'a darker version,' a 'liberal politicized atmosphere.' You sound like the fundamentalists who sat in religion classes with tape recorders (yes, tape recorders) years ago.

---

I thought "glossing over" or "dismissing" peoples views was a bad thing?

Were you not just complaining and kvetching about that?

You are of course entitled to your personal views about Baylor and its political direction.

Why does it trigger you so much if I have a different perspective?

You are literally steaming angry that people don't just accept your view....

You also said Baylor did NOT have DEI at all… now you are backtracking and saying we have it but it's less than peer institutions…which is it?

---

I'm not angry that people don't accept my view. I noted that Baylor is full of differing views and I'm cool with that.

But, when most people have evidence or new information put in front of them, they modify their opinions. You just disregard evidence that doesn't fit your narrative and keep trolling along with the same statements.

---

Well there is the problem

You think having an opinion is trolling.

You admit Baylor has become more progressive on some issues (DEI, LGBTQ, etc.) and then turn around and get mad that people might not like that.

You also seem to think that as long as Baylor can be compared to other peer institutions that might be even more progressive then that makes it just fine.

And you get really prissy if people don't agree.

You act like a zealot who hates zealots....

Edmond Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

Edmond Bear said:

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Look at your wording, 'a darker version,' a 'liberal politicized atmosphere.' You sound like the fundamentalists who sat in religion classes with tape recorders (yes, tape recorders) years ago.

---

I thought "glossing over" or "dismissing" peoples views was a bad thing?

Were you not just complaining and kvetching about that?

You are of course entitled to your personal views about Baylor and its political direction.

Why does it trigger you so much if I have a different perspective?

You are literally steaming angry that people don't just accept your view....

You also said Baylor did NOT have DEI at all… now you are backtracking and saying we have it but it's less than peer institutions…which is it?

---

About Baylor and DEI, I said they did not have any staff dedicated to it. They do have a committee and every student, including my 2 daughters, has to take a 30 minute class on equality and inclusivity. I'm aware that there is some form of it on campus and have addressed that with you before. Again, just ignored.

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Actually you started off saying it was not happening at all at Baylor.

Now you are saying "well Baylor does not have a designated DEI staff (just unofficial DEI)"

I have not "ignored" you statements on DEI...I just have not agreed about the concept.

I find it hard to believe if you have a college education if you can not understand the difference between ignoring something and disagreeing about it.

ps.

Students also disagree with your position

[the danger in the recent course forced upon students is the fact that Baylor attempts to blend the timeless truths of scripture with modern progressive doctrine a doctrine that, in many ways, completely opposes Christianity. As Christians, we should never attempt to hitch ourselves to movements comprised of many people who passionately despise the sound doctrine of our Lord. The progressive movement in our culture promotes unbiblical beliefs on gender, human sexuality, the sanctity of human life and the place of God in society, to list some examples. We cannot adopt the same language of the people who espouse these ideas without becoming increasingly like them (and therefore less like Christ). I noticed phrases in the online course like "microaggressions" a term adopted from the radical left in the United States that few would have taken seriously even five years ago. If we think we can reconcile these antithetical ideologies by blending their terminologies, we are sorely mistaken. Don't take my word for it. Take Paul's: "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14).

Furthermore, as a student, I am forced to take the DEI course by the Baylor administration (yes, forced). We cannot register for classes until we take the course, and I feel incredibly patronized. Forcing students to take the course gives off the impression that Baylor believes we are all little children who must be chided for our backward views...]

https://baylorlariat.com/2021/10/15/baylors-diversity-equity-inclusion-course-misses-key-marks/

Redbrickbear said:

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Edmond Bear said:

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I'm not angry that people don't accept my view. I noted that Baylor is full of differing views and I'm cool with that.

But, when most people have evidence or new information put in front of them, they modify their opinions. You just disregard evidence that doesn't fit your narrative and keep trolling along with the same statements.

---

Well there is the problem

You think having an opinion is trolling.

You admit Baylor has become more progressive on some issues (DEI, LGBTQ, etc.) and then turn around and get mad that people might not like that.

You also seem to think that as long as Baylor can be compared to other peer institutions that might be even more progressive then that makes it just fine.

And you get really prissy if people don't agree.

You act like a zealot who hates zealots....

---

I think being intentionally obtuse is trolling.

I'm comfortable letting others judge for themselves. And, just repeating the same argument with someone who has mastered invincible ignorance is just pearls before swine.