Sawyer looked solid against WV. We lost but he played well. Players can improve and Utah and Texas being two of your first starts is tough. I'd like to see if Finn can have a good first half against Air Force. If so let's ride that train but if not maybe mix in Sawyer in the 2nd half.

boykin_spaniel said:

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Sawyer looked solid against WV. We lost but he played well. Players can improve and Utah and Texas being two of your first starts is tough. I'd like to see if Finn can have a good first half against Air Force. If so let's ride that train but if not maybe mix in Sawyer in the 2nd half.

---

This is where I am too. Would love to see Finn get it figured out and build some confidence at this level....but if we keep seeing the same way off target throws I'm ready to see what Sawyer can do.

Jorkel said:

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In the 1 quarter against Tarleton, Sawyer looked like a quarterback who at least threw with confidence. Finn didn't even look like he belonged on the field against lesser talent.

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Get Sawyer some protection and I bet he starts to look really good. Kid looks like a natural.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Jorkel said:

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In the 1 quarter against Tarleton, Sawyer looked like a quarterback who at least threw with confidence. Finn didn't even look like he belonged on the field against lesser talent.

---

Get Sawyer some protection and I bet he starts to look really good. Kid looks like a natural.

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'Get Sawyer some protection' is the part we are having trouble with...

Karab said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Jorkel said:

---

In the 1 quarter against Tarleton, Sawyer looked like a quarterback who at least threw with confidence. Finn didn't even look like he belonged on the field against lesser talent.

---

Get Sawyer some protection and I bet he starts to look really good. Kid looks like a natural.

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'Get Sawyer some protection' is the part we are having trouble with...

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Yep seems like a recurring problem for this 5 year long coaching experiment.

Daveisabovereproach said:

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BUMBA1 said:

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I need to see more of Finn.

We saw what sawyer could do last year vs tough defenses (Utah and Texas). It wasn't impressive. Not defending Finn, but yall are acting like sawyer would've lit it up through the air today.

If yall don't remember we played Utah, at home last year. We put up 13 pts and sawyer had 2 picks and no tds through the air. At home.

Our running game was the only thing going that game and sawyer scored a short 4 yard TD on a designed run that we didn't have the luxury of doing today.

We've seen what sawyer can do with basically a whole season. Let's give Finn some time. The answer could be that we don't have a QB solution on campus and need to hit the portal. But I don't think Sawyer is going to dramatically increase our chances of winning over Finn.

Vs Texas last year - sawyer had no TDs. 1 pick, and negative 14 yards rushing. At home. We had nothing going through the air. I'm not bashing sawyer but we've already seen what he can do in basically a whole season. Now's not the time to give up on Finn and just go back to that yet. Let's give him some games to see how things shake out. Sawyer isn't the answer right now.

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I don't think anyone is arguing that Sawyer is secretly the next Joe Burrow. It's just that this was one of the worst quarterback performances from a Baylor quarterback in a long time, and we know that Sawyer can't be any worse

And again I have to say, people are flip-flopping between acting like Utah is overrated and treating them like a juggernaut based on what type of sunshine they're trying to sell in that post

---

There's no flip-flopping. Utah has a really good, really sound defense. That's been true for Morgan Scalley's entire tenure there as DC.

Where Utah is overrated is on the offensive side of the ball. They're solid offensively, but nothing special. They very rarely have game-breaking skill talent or the type of explosiveness you would expect from a true top 10-15 squad.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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WE PAY PLAYERS!

And this is the half baked offense we get? C'mon guys, we were told we'd be fast and have weapons. They lied. It's hot garbage.

Not overreacting, sure we may win several, but C'mon, our expectations should be much higher for a 5th year head coach.

---

This offense has the same problem last year's did. Our offensive line is deficient.

You can't scheme around an incompetent O-line. It's really that simple.

Art Briles couldn't do it. Why would anyone think Jeff Grimes and Jake Spavital could?

The key the rest of this season is to figure out what we can do well and try to get as effective as we can at those things. But we're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season, just as we were last year, because you can't fix a broken line in one offseason or with a scheme change.

bear2be2 said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

WE PAY PLAYERS!

And this is the half baked offense we get? C'mon guys, we were told we'd be fast and have weapons. They lied. It's hot garbage.

Not overreacting, sure we may win several, but C'mon, our expectations should be much higher for a 5th year head coach.

---

This offense has the same problem last year's did. Our offensive line is deficient.

You can't scheme around an incompetent O-line. It's really that simple.

Art Briles couldn't do it. Why would anyone think Jeff Grimes and Jake Spavital could?

The key the rest of this season is to figure out what we can do well and try to get as effective as we can at those things. But we're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season, just as we were last year, because you can't fix a broken line in one offseason or with a scheme change.

---

Not so sure about your premise, Art did scheme around an average offensive line. Spread the field, get the ball to the playmakers quickly , up tempo. all created success without a dominating line.

At the start but we ended up with all-Americans like Cyril Richardson and Spencer Drango.

BEAR 45 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

WE PAY PLAYERS!

And this is the half baked offense we get? C'mon guys, we were told we'd be fast and have weapons. They lied. It's hot garbage.

Not overreacting, sure we may win several, but C'mon, our expectations should be much higher for a 5th year head coach.

---

This offense has the same problem last year's did. Our offensive line is deficient.

You can't scheme around an incompetent O-line. It's really that simple.

Art Briles couldn't do it. Why would anyone think Jeff Grimes and Jake Spavital could?

The key the rest of this season is to figure out what we can do well and try to get as effective as we can at those things. But we're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season, just as we were last year, because you can't fix a broken line in one offseason or with a scheme change.

---

Not so sure about your premise, Art did scheme around an average offensive line. Spread the field, get the ball to the playmakers quickly , up tempo. all created success without a dominating line.

---

This is revisionist history. In Art's first several seasons -- most of those with a future Heisman winner at QB -- there was a whole lot of *****ing about our over-reliance on what our fans incorrectly labeled as "bubble screens."

We could run some in Year 1 because Art inherited a couple of quality linemen from Morriss and Robert Griffin was electric. But we got crushed almost every time we played a quality team and got bottled up with some regularity. We only averaged 376.5 yards and 28 points that year on 64.2 plays per game.

And Year 2, without Griffin, our offense was downright bad. We averaged almost 100 yards less per game than Jeff Nixon's last two offenses and finished 101st out of 120 FBS teams in scoring offense -- again on a pretty modest 65 plays per game.

There wasn't a ton of tempo and there wasn't a ton of success. We lost twice as many games as we won in both of the first two years.

And even in Years 3 and 4, when we put up big offensive numbers, we still laid eggs from time to time, causing fans to knee jerk and spray negativity on the boards. It's a shame baylorfans.com doesn't exist anymore, because we could see exactly what our fans thought of the early Briles regime by revisiting the midseason 2011 game threads. After losing three of five games that year and falling way behind Kansas in a November road game, there were calls for him to be fired (idiotic, I agree).

We came back and won that game in a miracle, didn't lose the rest of that season and the rest is history. But the Art Briles offense didn't become the Art Briles offense most of our fans remember until late in Year 4. And it coincided with his/our ability to field a competent, cohesive, road-grading offensive line -- something he maintained the rest of his tenure in Waco.

Without that, no scheme looks particularly good.

I warned y'all

Kind of hard to point the finger 100% at CDA. His hands were tied bringing in Jake as they pushed him from the head coaching role to focus on defense. Defense has improved so it's not like CDA is doing nothing.

boykin_spaniel said:

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At the start but we ended up with all-Americans like Cyril Richardson and Spencer Drango.

---

Stunning isn;t it, All of those wins and two all Americans, Great players no doubt. but personal accolades are also a result of winning teams as well. What about all of the other linemen during that time ?

johnnychimpo said:

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Kind of hard to point the finger 100% at CDA. His hands were tied bringing in Jake as they pushed him from the head coaching role to focus on defense. Defense has improved so it's not like CDA is doing nothing.

---

If you've got a head coach in his fifth year that has failed to earn the right to have complete autonomy over his own football team, that's a really bad sign. There's also no real evidence to suggest that he was forced to take Jake specifically. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that he was forced to fire Grimes. At most, I think changes were expected, and the rest was left up to him. It's a tough job, sure, but that's why he's getting paid the big bucks. There aren't many CEOs in the business world earning 7 figures that would get the slack that he has gotten

bear2be2 said:

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BEAR 45 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

WE PAY PLAYERS!

And this is the half baked offense we get? C'mon guys, we were told we'd be fast and have weapons. They lied. It's hot garbage.

Not overreacting, sure we may win several, but C'mon, our expectations should be much higher for a 5th year head coach.

---

This offense has the same problem last year's did. Our offensive line is deficient.

You can't scheme around an incompetent O-line. It's really that simple.

Art Briles couldn't do it. Why would anyone think Jeff Grimes and Jake Spavital could?

The key the rest of this season is to figure out what we can do well and try to get as effective as we can at those things. But we're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season, just as we were last year, because you can't fix a broken line in one offseason or with a scheme change.

---

Not so sure about your premise, Art did scheme around an average offensive line. Spread the field, get the ball to the playmakers quickly , up tempo. all created success without a dominating line.

---

This is revisionist history. In Art's first several seasons -- most of those with a future Heisman winner at QB -- there was a whole lot of *****ing about our over-reliance on what our fans incorrectly labeled as "bubble screens."

We could run some in Year 1 because Art inherited a couple of quality linemen from Morriss and Robert Griffin was electric. But we got crushed almost every time we played a quality team and got bottled up with some regularity. We only averaged 376.5 yards and 28 points that year on 64.2 plays per game.

And Year 2, without Griffin, our offense was downright bad. We averaged almost 100 yards less per game than Jeff Nixon's last two offenses and finished 101st out of 120 FBS teams in scoring offense -- again on a pretty modest 65 plays per game.

There wasn't a ton of tempo and there wasn't a ton of success. We lost twice as many games as we won in both of the first two years.

And even in Years 3 and 4, when we put up big offensive numbers, we still laid eggs from time to time, causing fans to knee jerk and spray negativity on the boards. It's a shame baylorfans.com doesn't exist anymore, because we could see exactly what our fans thought of the early Briles regime by revisiting the midseason 2011 game threads. After losing three of five games that year and falling way behind Kansas in a November road game, there were calls for him to be fired (idiotic, I agree).

We came back and won that game in a miracle, didn't lose the rest of that season and the rest is history. But the Art Briles offense didn't become the Art Briles offense most of our fans remember until late in Year 4. And it coincided with his/our ability to field a competent, cohesive, road-grading offensive line -- something he maintained the rest of his tenure in Waco.

Without that, no scheme looks particularly good.

---

I will counter with this, Briles had one of the top offenses in the country and yet had only a handfull of players with significant NFL careers. Does not matter what fans post on a message board, His system WAS the difference

BEAR 45 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

BEAR 45 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

WE PAY PLAYERS!

And this is the half baked offense we get? C'mon guys, we were told we'd be fast and have weapons. They lied. It's hot garbage.

Not overreacting, sure we may win several, but C'mon, our expectations should be much higher for a 5th year head coach.

---

This offense has the same problem last year's did. Our offensive line is deficient.

You can't scheme around an incompetent O-line. It's really that simple.

Art Briles couldn't do it. Why would anyone think Jeff Grimes and Jake Spavital could?

The key the rest of this season is to figure out what we can do well and try to get as effective as we can at those things. But we're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season, just as we were last year, because you can't fix a broken line in one offseason or with a scheme change.

---

Not so sure about your premise, Art did scheme around an average offensive line. Spread the field, get the ball to the playmakers quickly , up tempo. all created success without a dominating line.

---

This is revisionist history. In Art's first several seasons -- most of those with a future Heisman winner at QB -- there was a whole lot of *****ing about our over-reliance on what our fans incorrectly labeled as "bubble screens."

We could run some in Year 1 because Art inherited a couple of quality linemen from Morriss and Robert Griffin was electric. But we got crushed almost every time we played a quality team and got bottled up with some regularity. We only averaged 376.5 yards and 28 points that year on 64.2 plays per game.

And Year 2, without Griffin, our offense was downright bad. We averaged almost 100 yards less per game than Jeff Nixon's last two offenses and finished 101st out of 120 FBS teams in scoring offense -- again on a pretty modest 65 plays per game.

There wasn't a ton of tempo and there wasn't a ton of success. We lost twice as many games as we won in both of the first two years.

And even in Years 3 and 4, when we put up big offensive numbers, we still laid eggs from time to time, causing fans to knee jerk and spray negativity on the boards. It's a shame baylorfans.com doesn't exist anymore, because we could see exactly what our fans thought of the early Briles regime by revisiting the midseason 2011 game threads. After losing three of five games that year and falling way behind Kansas in a November road game, there were calls for him to be fired (idiotic, I agree).

We came back and won that game in a miracle, didn't lose the rest of that season and the rest is history. But the Art Briles offense didn't become the Art Briles offense most of our fans remember until late in Year 4. And it coincided with his/our ability to field a competent, cohesive, road-grading offensive line -- something he maintained the rest of his tenure in Waco.

Without that, no scheme looks particularly good.

---

I will counter with this, Briles had one of the top offenses in the country and yet had only a handfull of players with significant NFL careers. Does not matter what fans post on a message board, His system WAS the difference

---

I've said many, many times that Art was an offensive genius. He was a savant, because he didn't care about or pay much attention to anything but that offense, but his scheme was revolutionary.

But that scheme didn't start producing real tangible results until Year 3 and it didn't start really humming until the second half of Year 4. He had to get his players in first. He didn't recruit elite talent, but he recruited players that could execute his schemes to elite results.

It took time to get there because you can't scheme around some talent deficiencies, and a poor offensive line is at the very top of that list.

bear2be2 said:

---

BEAR 45 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

BEAR 45 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

WE PAY PLAYERS!

And this is the half baked offense we get? C'mon guys, we were told we'd be fast and have weapons. They lied. It's hot garbage.

Not overreacting, sure we may win several, but C'mon, our expectations should be much higher for a 5th year head coach.

---

This offense has the same problem last year's did. Our offensive line is deficient.

You can't scheme around an incompetent O-line. It's really that simple.

Art Briles couldn't do it. Why would anyone think Jeff Grimes and Jake Spavital could?

The key the rest of this season is to figure out what we can do well and try to get as effective as we can at those things. But we're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season, just as we were last year, because you can't fix a broken line in one offseason or with a scheme change.

---

Not so sure about your premise, Art did scheme around an average offensive line. Spread the field, get the ball to the playmakers quickly , up tempo. all created success without a dominating line.

---

This is revisionist history. In Art's first several seasons -- most of those with a future Heisman winner at QB -- there was a whole lot of *****ing about our over-reliance on what our fans incorrectly labeled as "bubble screens."

We could run some in Year 1 because Art inherited a couple of quality linemen from Morriss and Robert Griffin was electric. But we got crushed almost every time we played a quality team and got bottled up with some regularity. We only averaged 376.5 yards and 28 points that year on 64.2 plays per game.

And Year 2, without Griffin, our offense was downright bad. We averaged almost 100 yards less per game than Jeff Nixon's last two offenses and finished 101st out of 120 FBS teams in scoring offense -- again on a pretty modest 65 plays per game.

There wasn't a ton of tempo and there wasn't a ton of success. We lost twice as many games as we won in both of the first two years.

And even in Years 3 and 4, when we put up big offensive numbers, we still laid eggs from time to time, causing fans to knee jerk and spray negativity on the boards. It's a shame baylorfans.com doesn't exist anymore, because we could see exactly what our fans thought of the early Briles regime by revisiting the midseason 2011 game threads. After losing three of five games that year and falling way behind Kansas in a November road game, there were calls for him to be fired (idiotic, I agree).

We came back and won that game in a miracle, didn't lose the rest of that season and the rest is history. But the Art Briles offense didn't become the Art Briles offense most of our fans remember until late in Year 4. And it coincided with his/our ability to field a competent, cohesive, road-grading offensive line -- something he maintained the rest of his tenure in Waco.

Without that, no scheme looks particularly good.

---

I will counter with this, Briles had one of the top offenses in the country and yet had only a handfull of players with significant NFL careers. Does not matter what fans post on a message board, His system WAS the difference

---

I've said many, many times that Art was an offensive genius. He was a savant, because he didn't care about or pay much attention to anything but that offense, but his scheme was revolutionary.

But that scheme didn't start producing real tangible results until Year 3 and it didn't start really humming until the second half of Year 4. He had to get his players in first. He didn't recruit elite talent, but he recruited players that could execute his schemes to elite results.

It took time to get there because you can't scheme around some talent deficiencies, and a poor offensive line is at the very top of that list.

---

Agree, but we are in year 6 with Aeanda and it is now 180 degrees from Art. Aranda is all defense minded You claim that our offensive line is talent deprived and I agree with what they are trying to do with this offense. Art's offensive linemen were not the type to blow anybody off the line either. If you put these linemen in Art's offense , how would they do ? Spreading the defense out and creating running and passing lanes QUICKLY required less power and more finesse. Hard to close the gap in about 2 seconds , even for the best defenses. Art's offense was based entirely on what the defense lined up in. The opponent dictated what the offensive play call became. Baylor simply does not have the talent to run the offense we now have. I actually don't see much difference in this years and last years. Slow play development and slow read from Finn. Finn is not going to scare anyone with his running. he may be a decent scrambler, but nobody will respect him as a solid running threat at the snap.

Under Art Briles, Baylor had the #1 or top 5 offense in the country in multiple statistical categories for five years in a row. We had at least one 1,000 rusher and at least one 1,000 yard receiver each of those years. We had several great O Linemen who did their job well. I think the O Line deserves a sizable chunk of the credit for those successes including four 10+ win seasons, 2 conference titles, and a #2 ranking in the country for three straight weeks in 2015. We also had a series of great QBs, who were aided by the O Lines. The Heisman resulted in "the House that Art & Robert built", aka McLane Stadium.

Oh yes, our offense was lots of fun to watch.

CaliBear00 said:

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I don't understand how a scrambling QB can be so bad at throwing on the run.

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Yep, one would think that he would had worked on that his previous FIVE YEARS as a college QB.

Clown show that won't get better until Aranda (and Rhoades) is/are gone.

Am I riiight ?

boognish_bear said:

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You could install any offense you want and it will go nowhere with a below average OL and QB that can't hit an open target.

I'm not ready to blame anything on Spav yet...unless he handpicked Finn. He will have to own that one.

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I thought that was the whole point of the spread? Since you have less talent on the offense, spread 'em out and make harder on the defense?

One-Eyed Wheeler said:

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boognish_bear said:

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You could install any offense you want and it will go nowhere with a below average OL and QB that can't hit an open target.

I'm not ready to blame anything on Spav yet...unless he handpicked Finn. He will have to own that one.

---

I thought that was the whole point of the spread? Since you have less talent on the offense, spread 'em out and make harder on the defense?

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The quarterback still has to complete a pass. When we were trying to run bubble screens and he was throwing it behind the receiver, I knew we were/are screwed

BEAR 45 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

WE PAY PLAYERS!

And this is the half baked offense we get? C'mon guys, we were told we'd be fast and have weapons. They lied. It's hot garbage.

Not overreacting, sure we may win several, but C'mon, our expectations should be much higher for a 5th year head coach.

---

This offense has the same problem last year's did. Our offensive line is deficient.

You can't scheme around an incompetent O-line. It's really that simple.

Art Briles couldn't do it. Why would anyone think Jeff Grimes and Jake Spavital could?

The key the rest of this season is to figure out what we can do well and try to get as effective as we can at those things. But we're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season, just as we were last year, because you can't fix a broken line in one offseason or with a scheme change.

---

Not so sure about your premise, Art did scheme around an average offensive line. Spread the field, get the ball to the playmakers quickly , up tempo. all created success without a dominating line.

---

To be honest, the OL had a hard time blocking anyone with a pulse in Art's first 3 years.

Art won 4 games in his first season and 4 in his second. Out of those 8 wins, 3 were against conference foes while the other 5 were against **** teams.

It wasn't until the 3rd and 4th season that Art's recruits and the OL development bore fruit, which in turn saw us win 7 and 10 games, respectively. Well that and having a Heisman winner behind center..

They were very good college offensive linemen who did not give up a high pressure rate vs a team like Tarleton State. They excelled at inside zone blocking allowing a plethora of backs to have great seasons.

Just thought I would bump this thread because it's really great to see our Offense under Sawyer and Spav! About time they delivered on what they promised.

Who on earth thought we needed to buy a QB when we had Sawyer sitting on the bench??? Well at least they learned and brought in the Sawdog!

In fairness to the original poster when this was posted it was not a good offense. That was mainly because the offensive coordinator didn't trust his quarterback…And when he did it was obvious why. And then they unleashed Sawyer who is so crazy good he will be telling us Sayonara.

How the tables have turntabled.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Just thought I would bump this thread because it's really great to see our Offense under Sawyer and Spav! About time they delivered on what they promised.

Who on earth thought we needed to buy a QB when we had Sawyer sitting on the bench??? Well at least they learned and brought in the Sawdog!

---

Sawyer's been awesome and is a huge part of our offensive success, but the unsung heroes are the offensive linemen, who have done something I didn't think was possible -- go from a liability to a strength in the middle of a season.

That group's improvement -- and what it has meant for our running game -- is the biggest story of this season IMO. Those dude's are balling right now.

bear2be2 said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Just thought I would bump this thread because it's really great to see our Offense under Sawyer and Spav! About time they delivered on what they promised.

Who on earth thought we needed to buy a QB when we had Sawyer sitting on the bench??? Well at least they learned and brought in the Sawdog!

---

Sawyer's been awesome and is a huge part of our offensive success, but the unsung heroes are the offensive linemen, who have done something I didn't think was possible -- go from a liability to a strength in the middle of a season.

That group's improvement -- and what it has meant for our running game -- is the biggest story of this season IMO. Those dude's are balling right now.

---

You're not wrong. It's been great to see.
Really hope Spav builds a sustained offensive identity for the program.