Will Finn still get another season to play next year? Curious which G5 he leads to the playoff under a competent staff.
Firing a coach opens a 30 day transfer window
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Last: 1 yr ago by FLBear5630
Kevin Steele had a great career at great schools as a defensive coordinator. I think Aranda will do the same. And I'm not sure his feelings will be hurt over that. Mack took an idiotic risk hiring someone with no head coaching experience. And one with a personality type that's the exact opposite of 99% of leaders.TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:
No P5 University is going to hire CDA as head coach when he gets fired. Not a single one wants him. It's clear to anyone paying attention that he cannot head coach. See if he can get to 5 or 6 wins with "pay to play" talent? C'mon, what on earth are some of you thinking? Makes absolutely zero sense. He needed to be gone last Monday. But Mack gonna Mack.
Might I be right stating that Steele had zero resources and lost with them, and Aranda had resources but refused to use them?
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
Most of the people on these boards are allergic to logical consistency.
Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
Kirby Hocutt says Hi!Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
Sometimes Not firing a coach opens a 30 year portal to football hell.
McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
It's only happening because we suck and saying we should have hired MacGyver is low hanging fruit.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
I do find it funny that people are now saying they wish it would have been MacGyver. Like hiring a guy with 2-3 years of college coaching experience would have been a good idea.
I didn't want to hire either guy, so I'm not in the 'wish it would have been' Macgyver camp.
Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
All of these discussions were had contemporaneously. It's not hindsight for those of us who laid out these same arguments for McGuire in 2019 and watched Aranda's introductory press conference and said, "Really, this guy?"morethanhecouldbear said:It's only happening because we suck and saying we should have hired MacGyver is low hanging fruit.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
I do find it funny that people are now saying they wish it would have been MacGyver. Like hiring a guy with 2-3 years of college coaching experience would have been a good idea.
I didn't want to hire either guy, so I'm not in the 'wish it would have been' Macgyver camp.
bear2be2 said:Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
You're making counter arguments to arguments that aren't being made. Look at the post that I responded to, look at my responses, and then look at what you posted. I'm responding to arguments being made while you are not.
But I'll bite anyway.
Aranda has a top 5 AP finish, NY6 win, and a Big 12 title to show for his roster. What does McGuire have to show for his? The answer is nothing because he's a nobody that's done nothing. Maybe that will change this year, maybe not.
Separately, tons of coordinators have been ultra successful in their first HC job from being a P5 coordinator - Georgia's coach says hello. That's not really important - what is important is that
Aranda was a no brainer hire over McGuire at the time he was hired.
Four losing seasons in a five-year tenure trumps any single-season accomplishment that's not a national championship. Dave Aranda will leave Baylor with a sub-.450 winning percentage. Now three years removed, I don't really give a **** about the one season that keeps that number from being truly dismal. I would much rather have a coach that wins seven or eight games consistently and flashes in his best years than a guy who had one good season with his predecessor's players and completely tanked a healthy program after.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
You're making counter arguments to arguments that aren't being made. Look at the post that I responded to, look at my responses, and then look at what you posted. I'm responding to arguments being made while you are not.
But I'll bite anyway.
Aranda has a top 5 AP finish, NY6 win, and a Big 12 title to show for his roster. What does McGuire have to show for his? The answer is nothing because he's a nobody that's done nothing. Maybe that will change this year, maybe not.
Separately, tons of coordinators have been ultra successful in their first HC job from being a P5 coordinator - Georgia's coach says hello. That's not really important - what is important is that
Aranda was a no brainer hire over McGuire at the time he was hired.
And I don't want to hear about coordinators having success at blue blood programs. Those places draw top-15 classes regardless of who's coaching them and have a much higher floor than our program or any of our peers. Oklahoma can get away with hiring Venables, a good former coordinator and ****ty head coach. They'll bottom out at six or seven wins, he'll get fired and they'll make a better hire next time.
We can't do that. Hiring Aranda's sorry ass has set our program back a half-decade at least, and makes nailing our next hire even more difficult. There were several of us who aren't surprised by this outcome. We hired a guy who proved in Year 1 he can't build a staff and proved in Year 3 he can't build a roster. No-brainer, my ass.
bear2be2 said:Four losing seasons in a five-year tenure trumps any single-season accomplishment that's not a national championship. Dave Aranda will leave Baylor with a sub-.450 winning percentage. Now three years removed, I don't really give a **** about the one season that keeps that number from being truly dismal. I would much rather have a coach that wins seven or eight games consistently and flashes in his best years than a guy who had one good season with his predecessor's players and completely tanked a healthy program after.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
You're making counter arguments to arguments that aren't being made. Look at the post that I responded to, look at my responses, and then look at what you posted. I'm responding to arguments being made while you are not.
But I'll bite anyway.
Aranda has a top 5 AP finish, NY6 win, and a Big 12 title to show for his roster. What does McGuire have to show for his? The answer is nothing because he's a nobody that's done nothing. Maybe that will change this year, maybe not.
Separately, tons of coordinators have been ultra successful in their first HC job from being a P5 coordinator - Georgia's coach says hello. That's not really important - what is important is that
Aranda was a no brainer hire over McGuire at the time he was hired.
And I don't want to hear about coordinators having success at blue blood programs. Those places draw top-15 classes regardless of who's coaching them and have a much higher floor than our program or any of our peers. Oklahoma can get away with hiring Venables, a good former coordinator and ****ty head coach. They'll bottom out at six or seven wins, he'll get fired and they'll make a better hire next time.
We can't do that. Hiring Aranda's sorry ass has set our program back a half-decade at least, and makes nailing our next hire even more difficult. There were several of us who aren't surprised by this outcome. We hired a guy who proved in Year 1 he can't build a staff and proved in Year 3 he can't build a roster. No-brainer, my ass.
Being disappointed in Aranda is one thing, claiming McGuire (1) has not been objectively disappointing at Tech based on his completed seasons there, (2) could have won the same number of games at Baylor as Aranda in 2021, (3) made sense to hire over Aranda at the time of Aranda's hire, (4) does not benefit from a much better NIL program at Tech than Aranda does at Baylor, or (5) did not benefit from a super stacked roster in his first two seasons - likely better than Aranda's during the same time is something else entirely.
Both can be true: Aranda can be disappointing as of late and McGuire can be a nobody that's accomplished nothing despite having advantages over Aranda.
You're living in fantasy land.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Four losing seasons in a five-year tenure trumps any single-season accomplishment that's not a national championship. Dave Aranda will leave Baylor with a sub-.450 winning percentage. Now three years removed, I don't really give a **** about the one season that keeps that number from being truly dismal. I would much rather have a coach that wins seven or eight games consistently and flashes in his best years than a guy who had one good season with his predecessor's players and completely tanked a healthy program after.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
You're making counter arguments to arguments that aren't being made. Look at the post that I responded to, look at my responses, and then look at what you posted. I'm responding to arguments being made while you are not.
But I'll bite anyway.
Aranda has a top 5 AP finish, NY6 win, and a Big 12 title to show for his roster. What does McGuire have to show for his? The answer is nothing because he's a nobody that's done nothing. Maybe that will change this year, maybe not.
Separately, tons of coordinators have been ultra successful in their first HC job from being a P5 coordinator - Georgia's coach says hello. That's not really important - what is important is that
Aranda was a no brainer hire over McGuire at the time he was hired.
And I don't want to hear about coordinators having success at blue blood programs. Those places draw top-15 classes regardless of who's coaching them and have a much higher floor than our program or any of our peers. Oklahoma can get away with hiring Venables, a good former coordinator and ****ty head coach. They'll bottom out at six or seven wins, he'll get fired and they'll make a better hire next time.
We can't do that. Hiring Aranda's sorry ass has set our program back a half-decade at least, and makes nailing our next hire even more difficult. There were several of us who aren't surprised by this outcome. We hired a guy who proved in Year 1 he can't build a staff and proved in Year 3 he can't build a roster. No-brainer, my ass.
Being disappointed in Aranda is one thing, claiming McGuire (1) has not been objectively disappointing at Tech based on his completed seasons there, (2) could have won the same number of games at Baylor as Aranda in 2021, (3) made sense to hire over Aranda at the time of Aranda's hire, (4) does not benefit from a much better NIL program at Tech than Aranda does at Baylor, or (5) did not benefit from a super stacked roster in his first two seasons - likely better than Aranda's during the same time is something else entirely.
Both can be true: Aranda can be disappointing as of late and McGuire can be a nobody that's accomplished nothing despite having advantages over Aranda.
1. Joey McGuire's winning seasons the last two years are two of just four for Texas Tech since 2014. And his winning Big 12 records in those campaigns were Tech's first two since Leach's last year in 2009. Any disappointment in his teams' records were solely a product of expectations he built because his two direct predecessors combined to go 48-57 overall and 25-51 in Big 12 play over the nine seasons leading up to his hire.
2. The above is the talent situation he inherited. Aranda inherited multiple NFL players on both sides of the football -- several of which played roles on an 11-2 team the year before he arrived. To think Joey McGuire couldn't have been successful with a 2021 roster that was more talented than anything Tech has had in decades is silly.
3. Aranda has been hired as a head coach at exactly one school. And Baylor will likely be the only school ever to employ him in that role based on his performance here. To act like he was some kind of no-brainer, can't-miss hire for a job he had literally never held at any level is goofy.
4. Our NIL program has been pretty damn good since our head coach decided that it was actually worth pursuing. We were among the best in the Big 12 this offseason at retaining our talent and are outperforming Tech's supposedly stellar apparatus for the 2025 class currently.
5. Aranda had way more talent on his first two rosters than McGuire has ever had at Tech, and that proves out in a comparison of NFL draft picks/free agent signings between the two programs. With the help of COVID and a number of horrible hires on his offensive staff, he completely wasted his first year. Fortunately, we had too much talent and internal leadership for him to screw up 2021.
Aranda was given every opportunity to be successful at Baylor. He started from a much higher platform than McGuire did at Tech. He needed three years to nuke the program and by Year 4 had us in a place we haven't been since Guy Morriss was on the sidelines. Joey, meanwhile, has Tech on the verge of being ranked for the first time since 2018 with a win on Saturday.
Spin it any way you want. One of those guys is a good head football coach, and it's not the weird bald one.
bear2be2 said:You're living in fantasy land.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Four losing seasons in a five-year tenure trumps any single-season accomplishment that's not a national championship. Dave Aranda will leave Baylor with a sub-.450 winning percentage. Now three years removed, I don't really give a **** about the one season that keeps that number from being truly dismal. I would much rather have a coach that wins seven or eight games consistently and flashes in his best years than a guy who had one good season with his predecessor's players and completely tanked a healthy program after.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
You're making counter arguments to arguments that aren't being made. Look at the post that I responded to, look at my responses, and then look at what you posted. I'm responding to arguments being made while you are not.
But I'll bite anyway.
Aranda has a top 5 AP finish, NY6 win, and a Big 12 title to show for his roster. What does McGuire have to show for his? The answer is nothing because he's a nobody that's done nothing. Maybe that will change this year, maybe not.
Separately, tons of coordinators have been ultra successful in their first HC job from being a P5 coordinator - Georgia's coach says hello. That's not really important - what is important is that
Aranda was a no brainer hire over McGuire at the time he was hired.
And I don't want to hear about coordinators having success at blue blood programs. Those places draw top-15 classes regardless of who's coaching them and have a much higher floor than our program or any of our peers. Oklahoma can get away with hiring Venables, a good former coordinator and ****ty head coach. They'll bottom out at six or seven wins, he'll get fired and they'll make a better hire next time.
We can't do that. Hiring Aranda's sorry ass has set our program back a half-decade at least, and makes nailing our next hire even more difficult. There were several of us who aren't surprised by this outcome. We hired a guy who proved in Year 1 he can't build a staff and proved in Year 3 he can't build a roster. No-brainer, my ass.
Being disappointed in Aranda is one thing, claiming McGuire (1) has not been objectively disappointing at Tech based on his completed seasons there, (2) could have won the same number of games at Baylor as Aranda in 2021, (3) made sense to hire over Aranda at the time of Aranda's hire, (4) does not benefit from a much better NIL program at Tech than Aranda does at Baylor, or (5) did not benefit from a super stacked roster in his first two seasons - likely better than Aranda's during the same time is something else entirely.
Both can be true: Aranda can be disappointing as of late and McGuire can be a nobody that's accomplished nothing despite having advantages over Aranda.
1. Joey McGuire's winning seasons the last two years are two of just four for Texas Tech since 2014. And his winning Big 12 records in those campaigns were Tech's first two since Leach's last year in 2009. Any disappointment in his teams' records were solely a product of expectations he built because his two direct predecessors combined to go 48-57 overall and 25-51 in Big 12 play over the nine seasons leading up to his hire.
2. The above is the talent situation he inherited. Aranda inherited multiple NFL players on both sides of the football -- several of which played roles on an 11-2 team the year before he arrived. To think Joey McGuire couldn't have been successful with a 2021 roster that was more talented than anything Tech has had in decades is silly.
3. Aranda has been hired as a head coach at exactly one school. And Baylor will likely be the only school ever to employ him in that role based on his performance here. To act like he was some kind of no-brainer, can't-miss hire for a job he had literally never held at any level is goofy.
4. Our NIL program has been pretty damn good since our head coach decided that it was actually worth pursuing. We were among the best in the Big 12 this offseason at retaining our talent and are outperforming Tech's supposedly stellar apparatus for the 2025 class currently.
5. Aranda had way more talent on his first two rosters than McGuire has ever had at Tech, and that proves out in a comparison of NFL draft picks/free agent signings between the two programs. With the help of COVID and a number of horrible hires on his offensive staff, he completely wasted his first year. Fortunately, we had too much talent and internal leadership for him to screw up 2021.
Aranda was given every opportunity to be successful at Baylor. He started from a much higher platform than McGuire did at Tech. He needed three years to nuke the program and by Year 4 had us in a place we haven't been since Guy Morriss was on the sidelines. Joey, meanwhile, has Tech on the verge of being ranked for the first time since 2018 with a win on Saturday.
Spin it any way you want. One of those guys is a good head football coach, and it's not the weird bald one.
Feel free to agree to disagree on whichever items from the list that you wound like, but that doesn't mean that they're incorrect - and nothing stated above substantially disputes any of them.
Also, using straw man arguments all over the place is not productive and could mislead people that struggle with critical thinking. For example: I said Aranda was the hire to make over McGuire at the time of his hire. You responded by saying Aranda was not a couldn't miss hire as if I - or anyone else here - stated that he was. That's one of so many straw man arguments in the response that it would be a waste of time to even try respond to each of them.
At the end of the day, no one is happy with what Aranda has turned in as of late and if he misses a bowl he should go, but McGuire has accomplished nothing despite all of his advantages over Aranda. He was a nobody when Tech hired him and he's a nobody now - no title game appearances, titles, NY6 wins or AP finishes - that may change this year, or it may not as this isn't the first season Tech has started by winning a bunch of games.
Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:You're living in fantasy land.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Four losing seasons in a five-year tenure trumps any single-season accomplishment that's not a national championship. Dave Aranda will leave Baylor with a sub-.450 winning percentage. Now three years removed, I don't really give a **** about the one season that keeps that number from being truly dismal. I would much rather have a coach that wins seven or eight games consistently and flashes in his best years than a guy who had one good season with his predecessor's players and completely tanked a healthy program after.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
You're making counter arguments to arguments that aren't being made. Look at the post that I responded to, look at my responses, and then look at what you posted. I'm responding to arguments being made while you are not.
But I'll bite anyway.
Aranda has a top 5 AP finish, NY6 win, and a Big 12 title to show for his roster. What does McGuire have to show for his? The answer is nothing because he's a nobody that's done nothing. Maybe that will change this year, maybe not.
Separately, tons of coordinators have been ultra successful in their first HC job from being a P5 coordinator - Georgia's coach says hello. That's not really important - what is important is that
Aranda was a no brainer hire over McGuire at the time he was hired.
And I don't want to hear about coordinators having success at blue blood programs. Those places draw top-15 classes regardless of who's coaching them and have a much higher floor than our program or any of our peers. Oklahoma can get away with hiring Venables, a good former coordinator and ****ty head coach. They'll bottom out at six or seven wins, he'll get fired and they'll make a better hire next time.
We can't do that. Hiring Aranda's sorry ass has set our program back a half-decade at least, and makes nailing our next hire even more difficult. There were several of us who aren't surprised by this outcome. We hired a guy who proved in Year 1 he can't build a staff and proved in Year 3 he can't build a roster. No-brainer, my ass.
Being disappointed in Aranda is one thing, claiming McGuire (1) has not been objectively disappointing at Tech based on his completed seasons there, (2) could have won the same number of games at Baylor as Aranda in 2021, (3) made sense to hire over Aranda at the time of Aranda's hire, (4) does not benefit from a much better NIL program at Tech than Aranda does at Baylor, or (5) did not benefit from a super stacked roster in his first two seasons - likely better than Aranda's during the same time is something else entirely.
Both can be true: Aranda can be disappointing as of late and McGuire can be a nobody that's accomplished nothing despite having advantages over Aranda.
1. Joey McGuire's winning seasons the last two years are two of just four for Texas Tech since 2014. And his winning Big 12 records in those campaigns were Tech's first two since Leach's last year in 2009. Any disappointment in his teams' records were solely a product of expectations he built because his two direct predecessors combined to go 48-57 overall and 25-51 in Big 12 play over the nine seasons leading up to his hire.
2. The above is the talent situation he inherited. Aranda inherited multiple NFL players on both sides of the football -- several of which played roles on an 11-2 team the year before he arrived. To think Joey McGuire couldn't have been successful with a 2021 roster that was more talented than anything Tech has had in decades is silly.
3. Aranda has been hired as a head coach at exactly one school. And Baylor will likely be the only school ever to employ him in that role based on his performance here. To act like he was some kind of no-brainer, can't-miss hire for a job he had literally never held at any level is goofy.
4. Our NIL program has been pretty damn good since our head coach decided that it was actually worth pursuing. We were among the best in the Big 12 this offseason at retaining our talent and are outperforming Tech's supposedly stellar apparatus for the 2025 class currently.
5. Aranda had way more talent on his first two rosters than McGuire has ever had at Tech, and that proves out in a comparison of NFL draft picks/free agent signings between the two programs. With the help of COVID and a number of horrible hires on his offensive staff, he completely wasted his first year. Fortunately, we had too much talent and internal leadership for him to screw up 2021.
Aranda was given every opportunity to be successful at Baylor. He started from a much higher platform than McGuire did at Tech. He needed three years to nuke the program and by Year 4 had us in a place we haven't been since Guy Morriss was on the sidelines. Joey, meanwhile, has Tech on the verge of being ranked for the first time since 2018 with a win on Saturday.
Spin it any way you want. One of those guys is a good head football coach, and it's not the weird bald one.
Feel free to agree to disagree on whichever items from the list that you wound like, but that doesn't mean that they're incorrect - and nothing stated above substantially disputes any of them.
Also, using straw man arguments all over the place is not productive and could mislead people that struggle with critical thinking. For example: I said Aranda was the hire to make over McGuire at the time of his hire. You responded by saying Aranda was not a couldn't miss hire as if I - or anyone else here - stated that he was. That's one of so many straw man arguments in the response that it would be a waste of time to even try respond to each of them.
At the end of the day, no one is happy with what Aranda has turned in as of late and if he misses a bowl he should go, but McGuire has accomplished nothing despite all of his advantages over Aranda. He was a nobody when Tech hired him and he's a nobody now - no title game appearances, titles, NY6 wins or AP finishes - that may change this year, or it may not as this isn't the first season Tech has started by winning a bunch of games.
You're wrong. This is becoming habitual.
Wrong about what? Joey being a nobody?
Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Tech's roster was loaded ... and our 2021 roster wasn't? The roster Aranda inherited was vastly more talented than the Tech team McGuire took over. And he had the same challenge at Tech that Aranda did at Baylor to build a staff and roster and get all of them on board and rowing in one direction in short order.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:McGuire is doing just fine at Tech, where he's faced much larger challenges than he would have in taking over our job.Aberzombie1892 said:bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Promoting from within the prior coaching admin is fine, but promoting someone that hasn't been (1) OC/DC or (2) a HC (all at the college level) is not the answer. Mack would have committed professional negligence by promoting McGuire over hiring Aranda at the time the hire was made.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, and you're still spouting the "professional negligence" nonsense.
Joey McGuire is a better head coach than Dave Aranda is and would have been a much better hire than Dave Aranda has proven to be.
Anyone who says McGuire has had a much tougher job than Aranda is simply pushing an agenda, as, objectively, Joe's first two Tech rosters were loaded with super seniors and he -still- underperformed with all of that talent. Full stop. Moving beyond that glaring and obvious fact, Tech's NIL program is head and shoulders above Baylor's based on what is publicly known about each program.
Separately, yes, hiring McGuire would have been professional negligence, as turning down one of the top two coordinators in all of FBS to hire a nobody that hasn't called plays on either offense or defense in the college level - let alone the P5 level - would have been fireable offense. To extend that concern, Joey's done nothing with all of his super seniors and all of that NIL, so he's quite literally Holgorsen pt 2 until he does something of note. If he really is Holgorsen revisited, then that may not ever happen.
Secondly, being a good coordinator means absolutely nothing when assessing a coach's ability to successfully run a program. The skill sets required to succeed in the roles are completely different. Some possess both skill sets or develop the needed skills over time to be successful head coaches. Many don't.
Successful head coaches with Dave Aranda's personality, demeanor and general philosophy are almost impossible to find at any level of football. McGuire, who was a hyper-successful high school coach, not unlike many who have gone on to college success, looks, sounds and operates like a successful head coach.
It was professional negligence to sit in an interview with Dave Aranda and be fooled into believing his oddness was genius. As it turns out, the uniqueness and intellectual curiosity that so entranced Mack Rhoades never led to any useful answers at any particular level of our program.
You're making counter arguments to arguments that aren't being made. Look at the post that I responded to, look at my responses, and then look at what you posted. I'm responding to arguments being made while you are not.
But I'll bite anyway..
This is just how he rolls. Hence it is rather pointless.
Have we ever thought that maybe the strength and conditioning program should be looked at before we fire everyone else, the monsters we have on the offensive line should be moving mountains as big as they are, but they are weak, also way to many injuries every week
cool34 said:
Have we ever thought that maybe the strength and conditioning program should be looked at before we fire everyone else, the monsters we have on the offensive line should be moving mountains as big as they are, but they are weak, also way to many injuries every week
Yes I have thought that for quite some time. But no changes were made there this past off season as I recall.
We need Kaz back
I know not much (almost nothing) about him, but would the coach at Liberty be a potential candidate?
He's apparently making $4 million and signed a 7 year contract last year. My guess is that he's too hot of a commodity for little old Baylor to compete for. Sad.
Aberzombie1892 said:
Wrong about what? Joey being a nobody?
Correct.
Joey McGuire is no more of a nobody than Art Briles was when he was hired by Houston. And his winning percentage at Tech is substantially higher than Briles' was at Houston.Guitarbiscuit said:Aberzombie1892 said:
Wrong about what? Joey being a nobody?
Correct.
Honestly, anyone trashing Joey McGuire at this point looks like a fool. He's at the very worst a good, competent Big 12 football coach. And it's not like his Tech program is anywhere near a finished product. He's still on the build.
bear2be2 said:Joey McGuire is no more of a nobody than Art Briles was when he was hired by Houston. And his winning percentage at Tech is substantially higher than Briles' was at Houston.Guitarbiscuit said:Aberzombie1892 said:
Wrong about what? Joey being a nobody?
Correct.
Honestly, anyone trashing Joey McGuire at this point looks like a fool. He's at the very worst a good, competent Big 12 football coach. And it's not like his Tech program is anywhere near a finished product. He's still on the build.
Exactly, I think Aberzombie is one of those guys who just likes to play devil's advocate for the sake of doing so.
If you get rid of Aranda, you go outside, find someone with a record of success and clean house. Let the new guy bring his team and you start over. Continuing to fit pieces from past staffs creates a mess. If you get away from Aranda, get away from Aranda. No more half measures.bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Mack better have identified someone he wants, even if from lower level, but someone that wins wherever they are.
Have a hot shot coach lined up before you fire the existing one, and announce that hire immediately after you announce the firing.Bearfan1998 said:
How about a realistic option
You think Baylor can get a "hot shot" coach in this NIL environment in Waco?drahthaar said:Have a hot shot coach lined up before you fire the existing one, and announce that hire immediately after you announce the firing.Bearfan1998 said:
How about a realistic option
I see it being someone moving up Divisions, a retread looking for a 2nd chance OR a Coordinator taking this job. After Aranda, NO Coordinators.
In this case, I agree completely. You don't promote someone from a failed staff unless it's an interim who turns around a season after your head coach has been fired. And no one is going to get that chance here.FLBear5630 said:If you get rid of Aranda, you go outside, find someone with a record of success and clean house. Let the new guy bring his team and you start over. Continuing to fit pieces from past staffs creates a mess. If you get away from Aranda, get away from Aranda. No more half measures.bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Mack better have identified someone he wants, even if from lower level, but someone that wins wherever they are.
I'm talking in generalities. I don't mind promoting assistants from a successful staff. At Baylor specifically, I don't want to hire someone else's assistant as our head coach. The risk is too high.
The post you quoted was refuting the notion that it's logically inconsistent to have been for the hire of Joey McGuire in 2019 and against bringing in Aranda because neither had been a college head coach previously. I was explaining how those two situations would have been different.
Agreed. Everything about this team spells "patchwork" since Aranda had no identity from the beginning.
Where we disagree is that Joey would have been appreciatively better. I give you he is a more Fiery guy, so maybe we are 1 game better a year. Is that where we want to go? In my mind, Rhule is the yardstick. Will Joey or Aranda get us there? Not that I can see.bear2be2 said:In this case, I agree completely. You don't promote someone from a failed staff unless it's an interim who turns around a season after your head coach has been fired. And no one is going to get that chance here.FLBear5630 said:If you get rid of Aranda, you go outside, find someone with a record of success and clean house. Let the new guy bring his team and you start over. Continuing to fit pieces from past staffs creates a mess. If you get away from Aranda, get away from Aranda. No more half measures.bear2be2 said:Promoting an internal assistant and hiring one from the outside are two completely different things.TechDawgMc said:
I find it interesting that people keep complaining that Mack hired a coach with no head coaching experience and that Mack didn't hire Joey Mc. Somehow, those two things don't fit well together.
Aranda has to go, but there's no benefit to doing it now. With the new rules, you have to be hiring a new coach on the same day you fire the old one. That gives the new coach a chance to hold onto the players that he wants. If you fire Aranda now, the coach you hire in December is looking at a complete rebuild. This may not be the most talented roster BU has ever had, but it's not so bad you want everyone to leave.
If you're promoting an assistant, it's because the staff he was part of was successful at your school, eliminating many of the biggest variables from the equation (fit, buy in, staff building, recruiting, player development, etc.) right off the bat. A promoted assistant starts with an assistant and player core that has already bought into what he's doing and a fan base that already supports him.
At best, it's a continuation of the previous head coach and you keep the train rolling right down the tracks. At worst, it's a slow, gradual decline rather than a Thelma and Louise job right off the cliff like the one we've experienced with Dave.
In hiring an outside assistant, you're relying on a coach you don't have any experience with doing things he's never done to build a successful/sustainable program from scratch.
The only assistant I ever want to see hired by Baylor is an internal promotion, where a seamless transition mitigates most of the risk. I have no interest whatsoever in putting the fate of our program on a career assistant's ability to build a staff, build a roster and learn quickly enough on the job not to bottom out.
Mack better have identified someone he wants, even if from lower level, but someone that wins wherever they are.
I'm talking in generalities. I don't mind promoting assistants from a successful staff. At Baylor specifically, I don't want to hire someone else's assistant as our head coach. The risk is too high.
The post you quoted was refuting the notion that it's logically inconsistent to have been for the hire of Joey McGuire in 2019 and against bringing in Aranda because neither had been a college head coach previously. I was explaining how those two situations would have been different.
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