If Mack Rhoades would have decided to fire Aranda two years ago, could Baylor hired Curt Cignetti and had the same success as Indiana.
Baylor could have been indiana
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Last: 13 days ago by JP1037
Quinton said:
Art was very good and would have contended for titles. Not close to Cignetti. Smarter, even better eye for talent, more structured and disciplined. This years Indiana team is one of the best coached Cfb I've ever seen.
Cignetti is generational.
No argument from me that Cignetti is a great coach, but it's hard to compare post NIL versus pre-NIL. The program we had when Briles was fired compared to the program that he took over were in different stratospheres. My comparison between the two was that they both got the most out of their talent unlike any coaches I have seen.
blackie said:
It is someone ironic. Baylor fans get upset when basketball announcers bring up the Bliss scandal for them not letting it go, but just another opportunity to keep it in the news to spout something bad about Baylor. Likely many people hearing it had never heard it before. But the same Baylor fans have no problem constantly churning up what happened 10 years ago in football so we can interject as much negativity into the program as possible. I suspect some HS recruits are not even aware of it till they read about it on a Baylor message board.
The past isn't going to change. The entire football environment has morphed into something no one even thought about 10 years ago. It may morph again and Indiana becomes the next Michigan, players no longer can just flit from one place to another....or it just gets worse. Things cycle.....that is also not going to change.
Outside of all speculation is that rehashing the past does nothing to provide anything with which to move forward.
I have fond memories of the Briles era and use that as a measuring stick for what is possible now. I know that ship has sailed, but I don't think I will be able to completely move on from it until Baylor takes some responsibility for what happened and honors him at halftime of a home game. What happened to Art was a grave injustice and not only destroyed the career of a great coach but also one of the most exciting brands of football in the country. Forget Baylor, I would have loved to see him coach again, just for love of the game.
BUATX2000 said:Fre3dombear said:
Only better but the baylor bor san hedrin committed suicide to try to avoid anyone seeing their sins
We don't have mark cuban writing $30M checks. And we never did.
BOR chased off the money at the same time.
2016 BOR f'd our football program and many of them still walk around like they own the place.
Im thinking they are burning the midnight oil @ A&M to figure out how many more HS students they have to admit to fix this, or how to make all those satellite schools like Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi count in the total.
Quote:
Indiana University (IU) currently holds the title for the university with the largest living alumni base in the U.S., boasting over 805,000 graduates worldwide, surpassing Penn State, and maintaining a very active network with many dues-paying members and chapters globally
I have a friend who graduated from
Juilliard BS
Indiana MS
Illinois PhD
He plays the clarinet !
Juilliard BS
Indiana MS
Illinois PhD
He plays the clarinet !
Chuckroast said:blackie said:
It is someone ironic. Baylor fans get upset when basketball announcers bring up the Bliss scandal for them not letting it go, but just another opportunity to keep it in the news to spout something bad about Baylor. Likely many people hearing it had never heard it before. But the same Baylor fans have no problem constantly churning up what happened 10 years ago in football so we can interject as much negativity into the program as possible. I suspect some HS recruits are not even aware of it till they read about it on a Baylor message board.
The past isn't going to change. The entire football environment has morphed into something no one even thought about 10 years ago. It may morph again and Indiana becomes the next Michigan, players no longer can just flit from one place to another....or it just gets worse. Things cycle.....that is also not going to change.
Outside of all speculation is that rehashing the past does nothing to provide anything with which to move forward.
I have fond memories of the Briles era and use that as a measuring stick for what is possible now. I know that ship has sailed, but I don't think I will be able to completely move on from it until Baylor takes some responsibility for what happened and honors him at halftime of a home game. What happened to Art was a grave injustice and not only destroyed the career of a great coach but also one of the most exciting brands of football in the country. Forget Baylor, I would have loved to see him coach again, just for love of the game.
Art fired himself. Many former players I know could see it coming.
All he had to do was play by the Baylor Rules which he was fully capable of doing. Well, two or three other things were needing to happen so we don't get embarrassed by UCF & Michigan State.
1. He needed to hire a real Defensive Coordinator and during practices give the defense enough snaps to confidently know where to line up and play 100% every snap.
2. He needed to spend a day or two every year before 2-a-days began to review Baylor history (both scholastically/religiously) and athletically. During this pre-summer 2-a-days he needed to lay down the rules & regulations to follow in order to keep your scholarship, how to conduct yourself in interviews and in front of the public and to introduce them to the new "chaperone" or Ray Donovan.
Fre3dombear said:BUATX2000 said:Fre3dombear said:
Only better but the baylor bor san hedrin committed suicide to try to avoid anyone seeing their sins
We don't have mark cuban writing $30M checks. And we never did.
Didnt need em then with art briles breaking college football
Does he also get any credit for almost breaking Baylor through lack of curiosity?
It is so easy to rewrite history. We see it in politics and here in sports.
Thee University said:Chuckroast said:blackie said:
It is someone ironic. Baylor fans get upset when basketball announcers bring up the Bliss scandal for them not letting it go, but just another opportunity to keep it in the news to spout something bad about Baylor. Likely many people hearing it had never heard it before. But the same Baylor fans have no problem constantly churning up what happened 10 years ago in football so we can interject as much negativity into the program as possible. I suspect some HS recruits are not even aware of it till they read about it on a Baylor message board.
The past isn't going to change. The entire football environment has morphed into something no one even thought about 10 years ago. It may morph again and Indiana becomes the next Michigan, players no longer can just flit from one place to another....or it just gets worse. Things cycle.....that is also not going to change.
Outside of all speculation is that rehashing the past does nothing to provide anything with which to move forward.
I have fond memories of the Briles era and use that as a measuring stick for what is possible now. I know that ship has sailed, but I don't think I will be able to completely move on from it until Baylor takes some responsibility for what happened and honors him at halftime of a home game. What happened to Art was a grave injustice and not only destroyed the career of a great coach but also one of the most exciting brands of football in the country. Forget Baylor, I would have loved to see him coach again, just for love of the game.
Art fired himself. Many former players I know could see it coming.
All he had to do was play by the Baylor Rules which he was fully capable of doing. Well, two or three other things were needing to happen so we don't get embarrassed by UCF & Michigan State.
1. He needed to hire a real Defensive Coordinator and during practices give the defense enough snaps to confidently know where to line up and play 100% every snap.
2. He needed to spend a day or two every year before 2-a-days began to review Baylor history (both scholastically/religiously) and athletically. During this pre-summer 2-a-days he needed to lay down the rules & regulations to follow in order to keep your scholarship, how to conduct yourself in interviews and in front of the public and to introduce them to the new "chaperone" or Ray Donovan.
It wasn't that Baylor simply fired him… I understand that. What was egregious was the way they demonized him publicly to try to take the spotlight off of themselves.
Most coaches recover from being fired, but they intentionally destroyed him and his career to try to save themselves. They deliberately trumped up the narrative. That's what they need to own up to, and I'm not holding my breath.
They've privately admitted he never looked the other way after a sexual assault scandal through the general counsel letter, but I don't recall them ever publicly stating such. Their silence has been deafening amidst the out of control media narrative that Briles faced. They likely were patting each other on the backs behind closed doors because their plan to put media attention on Art and not themselves had worked. I'm ashamed of my university for that.
I love Art but he is nowhere near what Indiana is with Curt Cignetti. Indiana is a complete football team in all 3 phases of the game and is very disciplened. Baylor was excellent on Offense, average at best on defense and poor on special teams and overall was very undiscplened. Baylor was never going to be what Indiana is today under Art. Would I take it over what we have now, absolutetly I would.
Indiana is proof that most any team can do a turnaround with the right coach.
And I believe BU could realize that too with the right coach. USC was languishing for years without any push for a NC. I was to a point where I felt it would probably never happen again. But CPC turned it around within a couple of years.
Someone was saying how few 4 and 5 star players Indiana has compared to the rest. And they did it. Convincingly.
I will be interested to see how SC does next year with its high recruiting class.
Unfortunately a highly recruited class means nothing if the coach isn't up to par. And a great coach take a lesser recruited class and work wonders.
And I believe BU could realize that too with the right coach. USC was languishing for years without any push for a NC. I was to a point where I felt it would probably never happen again. But CPC turned it around within a couple of years.
Someone was saying how few 4 and 5 star players Indiana has compared to the rest. And they did it. Convincingly.
I will be interested to see how SC does next year with its high recruiting class.
Unfortunately a highly recruited class means nothing if the coach isn't up to par. And a great coach take a lesser recruited class and work wonders.
Turnarounds can happen a lot faster these days because overcoming the traditional conference bullies isn't as hard as it used to be. It's looking like no program will dominate from year to year like we used to see in the past. Every team has to reload substantially and hopefully develop chemistry the following year. Coaching will be important no doubt.
Fre3dombear said:
Only better but the baylor bor san hedrin committed suicide to try to avoid anyone seeing their sins
Indiana is a giant state university. But we could have been the Notre Dame, USC, or Miami of Texas.
Quote:
And a great coach take a lesser recruited class and work wonders.
We had one of these.
Stefano DiMera said:
Yep .
Briles would have definitely left for Austin.. or Dallas for the Cowboys job.
Who knows... Maybe Tech too.
I agree. I would have loved to continue having 10+ wins every year and possibly even a natty. But Briles would certainly have to consider leaving if, say, a Texas or Ohio State or LSU came knocking at his door - and they would have. I have a hard time seeing him say, "Yeah, this Baylor gig is as good as it gets. I'll just stay here." He would, "Thanks BU. It was fun, but it will be more fun where I am going next."
Thee University said:Chuckroast said:blackie said:
It is someone ironic. Baylor fans get upset when basketball announcers bring up the Bliss scandal for them not letting it go, but just another opportunity to keep it in the news to spout something bad about Baylor. Likely many people hearing it had never heard it before. But the same Baylor fans have no problem constantly churning up what happened 10 years ago in football so we can interject as much negativity into the program as possible. I suspect some HS recruits are not even aware of it till they read about it on a Baylor message board.
The past isn't going to change. The entire football environment has morphed into something no one even thought about 10 years ago. It may morph again and Indiana becomes the next Michigan, players no longer can just flit from one place to another....or it just gets worse. Things cycle.....that is also not going to change.
Outside of all speculation is that rehashing the past does nothing to provide anything with which to move forward.
I have fond memories of the Briles era and use that as a measuring stick for what is possible now. I know that ship has sailed, but I don't think I will be able to completely move on from it until Baylor takes some responsibility for what happened and honors him at halftime of a home game. What happened to Art was a grave injustice and not only destroyed the career of a great coach but also one of the most exciting brands of football in the country. Forget Baylor, I would have loved to see him coach again, just for love of the game.
Art fired himself. Many former players I know could see it coming.
All he had to do was play by the Baylor Rules which he was fully capable of doing. Well, two or three other things were needing to happen so we don't get embarrassed by UCF & Michigan State.
1. He needed to hire a real Defensive Coordinator and during practices give the defense enough snaps to confidently know where to line up and play 100% every snap.
2. He needed to spend a day or two every year before 2-a-days began to review Baylor history (both scholastically/religiously) and athletically. During this pre-summer 2-a-days he needed to lay down the rules & regulations to follow in order to keep your scholarship, how to conduct yourself in interviews and in front of the public and to introduce them to the new "chaperone" or Ray Donovan.
Yep. While Baylor's failures far exceeded Art's IMO, Art should have known to take care of his own knitting.
Chuckroast said:blackie said:
It is someone ironic. Baylor fans get upset when basketball announcers bring up the Bliss scandal for them not letting it go, but just another opportunity to keep it in the news to spout something bad about Baylor. Likely many people hearing it had never heard it before. But the same Baylor fans have no problem constantly churning up what happened 10 years ago in football so we can interject as much negativity into the program as possible. I suspect some HS recruits are not even aware of it till they read about it on a Baylor message board.
The past isn't going to change. The entire football environment has morphed into something no one even thought about 10 years ago. It may morph again and Indiana becomes the next Michigan, players no longer can just flit from one place to another....or it just gets worse. Things cycle.....that is also not going to change.
Outside of all speculation is that rehashing the past does nothing to provide anything with which to move forward.
I have fond memories of the Briles era and use that as a measuring stick for what is possible now. I know that ship has sailed, but I don't think I will be able to completely move on from it until Baylor takes some responsibility for what happened and honors him at halftime of a home game. What happened to Art was a grave injustice and not only destroyed the career of a great coach but also one of the most exciting brands of football in the country. Forget Baylor, I would have loved to see him coach again, just for love of the game.
This is precisely what will have to happen if BU athletics are to regain and sustain the the level of success reached during the McCaw years. But the great news is that CAB is now coaching at the collegiate level again. I personally rejoice over the failure in that sense of those in the Baylor context who sought to prevent his ever doing that again.
True.
Chuckroast said:Quinton said:
Art was very good and would have contended for titles. Not close to Cignetti. Smarter, even better eye for talent, more structured and disciplined. This years Indiana team is one of the best coached Cfb I've ever seen.
Cignetti is generational.
No argument from me that Cignetti is a great coach, but it's hard to compare post NIL versus pre-NIL. The program we had when Briles was fired compared to the program that he took over were in different stratospheres. My comparison between the two was that they both got the most out of their talent unlike any coaches I have seen.
Indeed.
Plus, imagine the talent Briles could attract through the portal with Bob Simpson, John Eddie Williams, and Drayton writing checks. "Who want to come to Baylor and put up mind-blowing offensive statistics?"
Briles was here for a while. He wasn't leaving Texas. The Tech and UT flirtations had come and passed. He'd talked too much crap on the Aggies for them to hire him. We were in for a good ride. But alas...
Robert Wilson said:Chuckroast said:Quinton said:
Art was very good and would have contended for titles. Not close to Cignetti. Smarter, even better eye for talent, more structured and disciplined. This years Indiana team is one of the best coached Cfb I've ever seen.
Cignetti is generational.
No argument from me that Cignetti is a great coach, but it's hard to compare post NIL versus pre-NIL. The program we had when Briles was fired compared to the program that he took over were in different stratospheres. My comparison between the two was that they both got the most out of their talent unlike any coaches I have seen.
Indeed.
Plus, imagine the talent Briles could attract through the portal with Bob Simpson, John Eddie Williams, and Drayton writing checks. "Who want to come to Baylor and put up mind-blowing offensive statistics?"
Briles was here for a while. He wasn't leaving Texas. The Tech and UT flirtations had come and passed. He'd talked too much crap on the Aggies for them to hire him. We were in for a good ride. But alas...
I agree with you here, Briles would have killed NIL. He had the mind-set to make it work and he would not have had to go with character risks, he could have just bought who he wanted.
baylor1984 said:
I love Art but he is nowhere near what Indiana is with Curt Cignetti. Indiana is a complete football team in all 3 phases of the game and is very disciplened. Baylor was excellent on Offense, average at best on defense and poor on special teams and overall was very undiscplened. Baylor was never going to be what Indiana is today under Art. Would I take it over what we have now, absolutetly I would.
I agree with that.
Cignetti has Indiana the favorite to win the National title...and crushing CFP opponents so far.
Guy is the complete backage as a coach.
But we would have been an Offensive monster under Art and a program to fear.
We would have had another decade of big-time winning seasons under him (since 2015) and have transformed the national perception of Baylor football among young students and players...probably forever changed how Baylor is viewed.
I think with NIL and big money donors loving the program we could have done very well in the new environment as well.
Probably regular Big 12 titles and regular CFP appearances. Maybe no national title but it would be worlds different than what we had historically been and what we are now under Aranda
Redbrickbear said:baylor1984 said:
I love Art but he is nowhere near what Indiana is with Curt Cignetti. Indiana is a complete football team in all 3 phases of the game and is very disciplened. Baylor was excellent on Offense, average at best on defense and poor on special teams and overall was very undiscplened. Baylor was never going to be what Indiana is today under Art. Would I take it over what we have now, absolutetly I would.
I agree with that.
Cignetti has Indiana the favorite to win the National title...and crushing CFP opponents so far.
Guy is the complete backage as a coach.
But we would have been an Offensive monster under Art and a program to fear.
We would have had another decade of big-time winning seasons under him (since 2015) and have transformed the national perception of Baylor football among young students and players...probably forever changed how Baylor is viewed.
I think with NIL and big money donors loving the program we could have done very well in the new environment as well.
Probably regular Big 12 titles and regular CFP appearances. Maybe no national title but it would be worlds different than what we had historically been and what we are now under Aranda
I don't know if I agree. I always got the feeling it was a matter of resources for programs like Baylor. There were alot of BU schools that had good runs, but it was driven by one side of the ball. NIL and the Portal would have allowed a more comprehensive approach IF the money was there. Briles would have been able to fill the shopping cart, not just the offense.
JP_Brady said:
If Mack Rhoades would have decided to fire Aranda two years ago, could Baylor hired Curt Cignetti and had the same success as Indiana.
Nope. Here is why.
https://www.facebook.com/footballforeverhq/videos/curt-cignetti-is-laser-focused-on-a-postgame-drink-im-not-really-thinking-about-/2639545699749229/
The current state of the program isn't due to Art and the university leadership. BU has replaced the upper level admin and the BOR has largely turned over. And since 2016, BU has seen a major turnaround with success. This current ineptitude belongs to the current admin and BOR, Mack Rhoades, and Aranda. And now the mess is laid off on a new AD who has little to no AD chops, only "potential", and that largely to raise financial support. Looking at the landscape, BU needs more than a sackful of money and some kind of dynamic "hope" to restore success.
Thee University said:JP_Brady said:
If Mack Rhoades would have decided to fire Aranda two years ago, could Baylor hired Curt Cignetti and had the same success as Indiana.
Nope. Here is why.
https://www.facebook.com/footballforeverhq/videos/curt-cignetti-is-laser-focused-on-a-postgame-drink-im-not-really-thinking-about-/2639545699749229/
Cignetti never comes to a Baylor. He is a Nick Saban disciple, he goes where he can win. He could mot win at Baylor. He went to IU after the B10 deal, after Allen and Wilson and after the portal.
Plus the drinking, BU signing off on that?
No way Cignetti comes to the mess that is Baylor.
drahthaar said:
The current state of the program isn't due to Art and the university leadership. BU has replaced the upper level admin and the BOR has largely turned over. And since 2016, BU has seen a major turnaround with success. This current ineptitude belongs to the current admin and BOR, Mack Rhoades, and Aranda. And now the mess is laid off on a new AD who has little to no AD chops, only "potential", and that largely to raise financial support. Looking at the landscape, BU needs more than a sackful of money and some kind of dynamic "hope" to restore success.
I don't totally disagree, other than you are missing part of the story. The current university leadership was chosen precisely as a reaction to the 2015 fiasco, and our board is self perpetuating. What we are currently experiencing is an entirely predictable downstream consequence of what our board did in 2015. Gross mismanagement and incompetence, breaches of fiduciary duty… They are lucky that this is an entity without shareholders, because the shareholder derivative suit would have uncovered God knows what.
Robert Wilson said:drahthaar said:
The current state of the program isn't due to Art and the university leadership. BU has replaced the upper level admin and the BOR has largely turned over. And since 2016, BU has seen a major turnaround with success. This current ineptitude belongs to the current admin and BOR, Mack Rhoades, and Aranda. And now the mess is laid off on a new AD who has little to no AD chops, only "potential", and that largely to raise financial support. Looking at the landscape, BU needs more than a sackful of money and some kind of dynamic "hope" to restore success.
I don't totally disagree, other than you are missing part of the story. The current university leadership was chosen precisely as a reaction to the 2015 fiasco, and our board is self perpetuating. What we are currently experiencing is an entirely predictable downstream consequence of what our board did in 2015. Gross mismanagement and incompetence, breaches of fiduciary duty… They are lucky that this is an entity without shareholders, because the shareholder derivative suit would have uncovered God knows what.
Art was building a long term program of success, not a one off year with a few lucky wins leading to one good year out of the next 10. The current poor state of the program is directly related to giving that up for optics and avoiding internal accountability.
Many of us saw this coming and we were right. But of course we were. The failure has been accentuated by NIL with our big donors unwilling to support the failure and hypocrisy.
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