Long article but worth the read.



https://mail.uofl.me/t/r-e-tkujtiud-nttkjhijyl-y/

Thee University said:

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Long article but worth the read.



https://mail.uofl.me/t/r-e-tkujtiud-nttkjhijyl-y/

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Great article, my friend. Thanks for posting. The days of student-athletes are long gone. As is loyalty to a school.

The authors lost me at the end when they wrote that their proposed "cap" would not apply to NIL for players. Of course, it must - because college football is not like pro football, where fans have zero interest in paying $ to players to incentivize them to play for their favorite NFL team - but we insane rich college boosters absolutely will.

The authors also lost we with their "student athlete" assertions. They are very much student athletes in the non-revenue sports, but not so much in FB or MBB, and maybe not in WBB or BB - and haven't been in a long time.

baylorrific said:

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The authors lost me at the end when they wrote that their proposed "cap" would not apply to NIL for players. Of course, it must - because college football is not like pro football, where fans have zero interest in paying $ to players to incentivize them to play for their favorite NFL team - but we insane rich college boosters absolutely will.

The authors also lost we with their "student athlete" assertions. They are very much student athletes in the non-revenue sports, but not so much in FB or MBB, and maybe not in WBB or BB - and haven't been in a long time.

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spot on with the all of this, but I agree especially with the bolded part. The wailing & gnashing of teeth over the 'death of the student-athlete' has always perplexed me.

Football players in particular have only had to engage with Academics to the degree they've wanted to for like decades now. Sure, some are wise young men who work hard to earn a useful degree, but many have just coasted through school going back, hell, to the 1980s.

The fact there is no longer a thin veil of fiction covering that reality hasn't really changed things for me.

Do not fear.

Trump's College Sports roundtable this Friday afternoon with Mack Brown... Tiger Woods.. Tim Tebow.. Charlie Ward and others will surely figure everything out.

Big Mac's and chocolate shakes for all!

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Thee University said:

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Long article but worth the read.



https://mail.uofl.me/t/r-e-tkujtiud-nttkjhijyl-y/

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Great article, my friend. Thanks for posting. The days of student-athletes are long gone. As is loyalty to a school.

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I don't understand how alumni can forgive the lack of loyalty to Baylor by these team jumpers. I am 100% against the NIL and the transfer portal. It is killing college football.

If it is here to stay, there ought to be a number of prerequisites accomplished before a dime is given to these thieves. Here are a few that make sense to me.

1. Big penalties of $$$ if you show up in a police blotter. Forfeiture of all $$$ paid out at the time of crime if you commit a felony and a 50% reduction if you commit a misdemeanor.
2. 10% to 15% is automatically taken out and dispersed to all players on the team who are not receiving any NIL money
3. A verifiable GPA of 2.0 or above must be maintained every year to get any access to $
4. Along with a GPA the player must attend 75% of classes.
5. Every player receiving $$ must fund at least 1 full scholarship for that University before receiving a dime.
6. 5% of the $ must go to help a charity of player's choice in the city of the university.

Trump did say he would submit a reform proposal for college athletics, after meeting with the select attendees. He did promise that if his proposals were to put into action, there would be lawsuits. Going after the belly of the beast is bold but ultimately necessary.

Quote:

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At Louisville, we sponsor 23 sports, 14 for women and nine for men. Twenty-one of these sports operate in the red, and two operate in the black and we're considered one of the lucky few. Our football program is expected to spend approximately $30 million on financial aid, salaries, and operating costs, this total does not include revenue sharing expenses. Our football and men's basketball program are the economic engine that subsidizes 21 other varsity programs. Our baseball program the one that is in the nation's top five for wins over the last 20 years is estimated to lose over $4 million for the 2026 season. Our women's basketball program, which has won at least 20 games for 16 consecutive seasons, will have expenses that exceed revenues by over $4 million. Our Men's and Women's Swimming and Diving and Track and Field teams will cost our department nearly $6 million to operate this fiscal year.

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This is the reality.

So why should a university be operating a "swimming and diving", a "track and field", or in Baylor's case an Equistrian team?

Maybe the way forward is this, end all nonrevenue sports or demote them to club/intramural status, spin off your football program into its own 501c3 entity, and the University licenses It's NIL to the football program.

An NFL model, but the affiliate is an institution instead of a city.

The NCAA is replaced with the NCFL and NCBA.

Players contract directly with the team. Classes optional.

Realitybites said:

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An NFL model, but the affiliate is an institution instead of a city.

The NCAA is replaced with the NCFL and NCBA.

Players contract directly with the team. Classes optional.

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The Equestrian team is supported by specific donations, and I'd be surprised if they operate at a significant loss for the university.

But as to this model - classes have been optional at most unis for the last 50 years. The instant that TV contracts entered the picture, the whole thing began shifting towards professionalism...it was just couched in "student-athlete' verbiage specifically to avoid paying the players.

FWIW, a pro team being attached to a school instead of a city isn't a bad thing - that's one more anchor pulling against any relocation efforts.

I would hate to think that the way to save college football and basketball from being totally insane is to scrap all the less popular sports that don't make money.

Even so, if they did that, the amount of expense they save probably wouldn't be a drop in the bucket in the pool of player salaries in the "revenue" sports.

College football could be the death of sports in general, much less college sports.

47 to the rescue.......

- UF

.... on his Orange steed named Liberty!

D!

DD!!

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donuts }

Dia del DougO said:

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I would hate to think that the way to save college football and basketball from being totally insane is to scrap all the less popular sports that don't make money.

Even so, if they did that, the amount of expense they save probably wouldn't be a drop in the bucket in the pool of player salaries in the "revenue" sports.

College football could be the death of sports in general, much less college sports.

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I too would like to turn back the clock on this, but it simply isn't going to happen.

So just admit what it is, a for profit enterprise, and run it like that.

Such a format would be more compatible with the sorts of deals that Utah made with private equity as well.

Under the model, coaches would be hired, paid by, and fired by the team, not the school.

The NCAA could either disband or continue as an organization overseeing club sports.

Realitybites said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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I would hate to think that the way to save college football and basketball from being totally insane is to scrap all the less popular sports that don't make money.

Even so, if they did that, the amount of expense they save probably wouldn't be a drop in the bucket in the pool of player salaries in the "revenue" sports.

College football could be the death of sports in general, much less college sports.

---

I too would like to turn back the clock on this, but it simply isn't going to happen.

So just admit what it is, a for profit enterprise, and run it like that.

Such a format would be more compatible with the sorts of deals that Utah made with private equity as well.

Under the model, coaches would be hired, paid by, and fired by the team, not the school.

The NCAA could either disband or continue as an organization overseeing club sports.

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I just think once college football and basketball become officially another pro league with some weak association with a college, it won't be long before they don't need the college part any more, and it just becomes another pro league, probably sponsored by Amazon and Google and other big corporations.

It won't be good for the schools. It won't be good for sports. It will all collapse if they can't get it under some kind of rational control.

Dia del DougO said:

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Realitybites said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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I would hate to think that the way to save college football and basketball from being totally insane is to scrap all the less popular sports that don't make money.

Even so, if they did that, the amount of expense they save probably wouldn't be a drop in the bucket in the pool of player salaries in the "revenue" sports.

College football could be the death of sports in general, much less college sports.

---

I too would like to turn back the clock on this, but it simply isn't going to happen.

So just admit what it is, a for profit enterprise, and run it like that.

Such a format would be more compatible with the sorts of deals that Utah made with private equity as well.

Under the model, coaches would be hired, paid by, and fired by the team, not the school.

The NCAA could either disband or continue as an organization overseeing club sports.

---

I just think once college football and basketball become officially another pro league with some weak association with a college, it won't be long before they don't need the college part any more, and it just becomes another pro league, probably sponsored by Amazon and Google and other big corporations.

It won't be good for the schools. It won't be good for sports. It will all collapse if they can't get it under some kind of rational control.

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The love of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ obliterates rationality.

Dia del DougO said:

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Realitybites said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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I would hate to think that the way to save college football and basketball from being totally insane is to scrap all the less popular sports that don't make money.

Even so, if they did that, the amount of expense they save probably wouldn't be a drop in the bucket in the pool of player salaries in the "revenue" sports.

College football could be the death of sports in general, much less college sports.

---

I too would like to turn back the clock on this, but it simply isn't going to happen.

So just admit what it is, a for profit enterprise, and run it like that.

Such a format would be more compatible with the sorts of deals that Utah made with private equity as well.

Under the model, coaches would be hired, paid by, and fired by the team, not the school.

The NCAA could either disband or continue as an organization overseeing club sports.

---

I just think once college football and basketball become officially another pro league with some weak association with a college, it won't be long before they don't need the college part any more, and it just becomes another pro league, probably sponsored by Amazon and Google and other big corporations.

It won't be good for the schools. It won't be good for sports. It will all collapse if they can't get it under some kind of rational control.

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And then some schools not involved in the initial "pro" league, have donors that decide while they can't compete with the big boys on funding can provide more for their school than their peers, take it court and win (can't deny free enterprise) and it starts all over again, just at a smaller entry point.

Universities won't like not having enough control of representative teams to protect their image. The loosely related pro team model simply won't last long - particularly for private schools like Baylor. There will be a natural pull to break away from the school as much as fan and booster support makes possible.

Shortened: "We can't handle free market economics. Please save us from ourselves."

A few things stuck out to me while reading that memo.

"These are not stories of mismanagement"
"The goal of this article is not to assign blame or relitigate how we arrived here."
"Penn State is now the most leveraged public athletic program in the country, carrying $534 million in athletics-related debt".
"These are not signs of mismanagement" << a near repeat of an earlier statement.
"To bridge these shortfalls, Louisville has relied on a $12 million institutional subsidy, a $200-per-student athletic fee and a $25 million line of credit".

What I glean from that memo is the following:

A). University administrators want to deflect all responsibility for leading schools into an athletics arms race
B). Funds have been grossly mismanaged due to the above.
C). Schools have lost their sense of direction and purpose.
D). Students, their parents and fans will ultimately pay the price for the arms race because administrators cannot, or will not keep things in check.
E). Schools are not set up to run what is now a professional sport(s).

Whats most disturbing is the deflection of responsibility. If you are running the school, yet cannot even admit you are part of the problem, then the problem will continue unabated. I wonder how much money the top administrators at a school are making these days? I wonder how much of that $12 million of institutional subsidy went to Basketball and FB coaching salaries and the AD salary at Louisville?

Since we could not legally "pay" athletes until recently, money instead poured into facilities and directly contributed to skyrocketing coaching salaries.

If rich boosters and alumni want to throw NIL money at 18-23 year olds, so be it. But schools need to reign in their outlandish facility spending and there needs to be hard caps on roster spending as well as coaching salaries.

I've worked my whole life and I'm blessed that my family has done well. I will continue to donate to academics, but I'm not contributing to the unchecked silliness that is athletics.

University administrators are not built to run large for-profit businesses. They've lived in an environment where they can just raise tuition while students will take federally-subsidized loans to pay the new price, whatever it is (remind you of housing circa 2008?).

All of that is ignoring the fact that educational institutions have no business running professional sports teams...

PE Firms a la what's happening in Utah may be the way these athletic departments just need to go if we are going to continue to indulge the fallacy of having schools run pro sports programs.

Tempus Edax Rerum said:

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I don't really care that much anymore. Once Baylor fired CAB, I quit giving a damn.

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All such people are disguised as empty seats.

Why is there no discussion of the Title Nine mandates that mandate some parity between women's and men's programs at Universities. Unless this issue is addressed , College sports will never function as a professional league does.

BEAR 45 said:

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Why is there no discussion of the Title Nine mandates that mandate some parity between women's and men's programs at Universities. Unless this issue is addressed , College sports will never function as a professional league does.

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That would be the next nuke to drop.

BEAR 45 said:

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Why is there no discussion of the Title Nine mandates that mandate some parity between women's and men's programs at Universities. Unless this issue is addressed , College sports will never function as a professional league does.

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Spinning off profitable football and basketball operations and licensing your institutional name to that entity while demoting all other sports to club status eliminates all Title IX concerns.

The good 'ol days are long gone and they ain't coming back.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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Universities won't like not having enough control of representative teams to protect their image. The loosely related pro team model simply won't last long - particularly for private schools like Baylor. There will be a natural pull to break away from the school as much as fan and booster support makes possible.

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I don't think this would be an issue.

Without the school affiliation, a semi-pro football team from Waco or Bloomington is not going to attract any attention. The entire business model depends on school branding...sort of like designer clothing.

Morals clauses are already found in most sponsorship and endorsement deals involving celebrities and professional athletes. In a typical endorsement agreement, the morals clause provides the sponsor the right to terminate the agreement if the individual is convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude or commits an act that is likely, in the sole opinion of the sponsor, to adversely affect the sponsor and its goodwill.

The more I think about this, the better it sounds. If you structure the affiliate entity as a 501c3, NIL itself becomes irrelevant and the players can become contracted employees of the affiliate. Donations to the affiliate become tax deductible gifts. And the affiliate pays the school for its branding.

Getting rid of Title IX concerns is a tremendous side benefit as well, as is the need to monitor academic achievement, progress, etc.

Realitybites said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Universities won't like not having enough control of representative teams to protect their image. The loosely related pro team model simply won't last long - particularly for private schools like Baylor. There will be a natural pull to break away from the school as much as fan and booster support makes possible.

---

I don't think this would be an issue.

Without the school affiliation, a semi-pro football team from Waco or Bloomington is not going to attract any attention. The entire business model depends on school branding...sort of like designer clothing.

Morals clauses are already found in most sponsorship and endorsement deals involving celebrities and professional athletes. In a typical endorsement agreement, the morals clause provides the sponsor the right to terminate the agreement if the individual is convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude or commits an act that is likely, in the sole opinion of the sponsor, to adversely affect the sponsor and its goodwill.

The more I think about this, the better it sounds. If you structure the affiliate entity as a 501c3, NIL itself becomes irrelevant and the players can become contracted employees of the affiliate. Donations to the affiliate become tax deductible gifts. And the affiliate pays the school for its branding.

Getting rid of Title IX concerns is a tremendous side benefit as well, as is the need to monitor academic achievement, progress, etc.

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You really think Title IX is going to go away that simply ? Baylor and other schools as well, will have to pay the tab for men's and women's athletics that lose money each year ie. everything except football and maybe men's basketball. The alternative is to shut down all of those programs. The government is NOT going to allow that to happen.

BEAR 45 said:

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You really think Title IX is going to go away that simply ? Baylor and other schools as well, will have to pay the tab for men's and women's athletics that lose money each year ie. everything except football and maybe men's basketball. The alternative is to shut down all of those programs. The government is NOT going to allow that to happen.

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Baylor would not be paying the tab for *any* athletics programs. All sports played by actual students with athletic talent would be demoted to club status.

They would simply be offering the school's NIL to the team.

Baylor's athletics budget would be zero. If your football budget and mens basketball budget is zero there is no obligation to fund non revenue sports.

McLane's maintenance would be rolled into grounds maintenance.

McLane would be rented to the team for games.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Thee University said:

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Long article but worth the read.



https://mail.uofl.me/t/r-e-tkujtiud-nttkjhijyl-y/

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Great article, my friend. Thanks for posting. The days of student-athletes are long gone. As is loyalty to a school.

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Ended back in the 60's.

But some illusions die hard.

KaiBear said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Thee University said:

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Long article but worth the read.



https://mail.uofl.me/t/r-e-tkujtiud-nttkjhijyl-y/

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Great article, my friend. Thanks for posting. The days of student-athletes are long gone. As is loyalty to a school.

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Ended back in the 60's.

But some illusions die hard.

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So NIL and the transfer portal started in the 60's? Please don't be offended with me for asking, but are you an Aggie?

Realitybites said:

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BEAR 45 said:

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You really think Title IX is going to go away that simply ? Baylor and other schools as well, will have to pay the tab for men's and women's athletics that lose money each year ie. everything except football and maybe men's basketball. The alternative is to shut down all of those programs. The government is NOT going to allow that to happen.

---

Baylor would not be paying the tab for *any* athletics programs. All sports played by actual students with athletic talent would be demoted to club status.

They would simply be offering the school's NIL to the team.

Baylor's athletics budget would be zero. If your football budget and mens basketball budget is zero there is no obligation to fund non revenue sports.

McLane's maintenance would be rolled into grounds maintenance.

McLane would be rented to the team for games.

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That is why I said they would have to shut down all sports that don't generate enough revenue to cover the cost. Student enrollment would PLUMMET, as they would go somewhere else that offered a true college experience along with a good education. Baylor could not have any affiliation with either football or men's basketball without
the government being involved. That is unless NO government assistance for students or research is accepted. Waco would not provide support for either sport and alumni would be disenfranchised as well. Total disaster.

BEAR 45 said:

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Realitybites said:

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BEAR 45 said:

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You really think Title IX is going to go away that simply ? Baylor and other schools as well, will have to pay the tab for men's and women's athletics that lose money each year ie. everything except football and maybe men's basketball. The alternative is to shut down all of those programs. The government is NOT going to allow that to happen.

---

Baylor would not be paying the tab for *any* athletics programs. All sports played by actual students with athletic talent would be demoted to club status.

They would simply be offering the school's NIL to the team.

Baylor's athletics budget would be zero. If your football budget and mens basketball budget is zero there is no obligation to fund non revenue sports.

McLane's maintenance would be rolled into grounds maintenance.

McLane would be rented to the team for games.

---

That is why I said they would have to shut down all sports that don't generate enough revenue to cover the cost. Student enrollment would PLUMMET, as they would go somewhere else that offered a true college experience along with a good education. Baylor could not have any affiliation with either football or men's basketball without
the government being involved. That is unless NO government assistance for students or research is accepted. Waco would not provide support for either sport and alumni would be disenfranchised as well. Total disaster.

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clarification request: you think student enrollment is high *because* of unprofitable sports?