In a scandal that even the media indicates is far worse than Baylor's was, just watch Mich State is probably going to show you dont have to react like idiots as Baylor did. I suspect Izzo and Dantonio will survive without much controversy about their personal survival there. They arent even suspended or anything. You know damn well they will end up keeping their jobs and keep the wins and $$ flowing into the school.

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

I don't think they will preserve the status quo. They will take action but meaningful real action and real reform. At least I hope they do.

MilliVanilli said:

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Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I don't think anybody is comfortable with that. It's the double standard that's troubling. I don't like knowing that other schools can get away this while Baylor has to self administer a flogging. I don't like knowing that journalists in Austin or Norman or Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa, etc will never in a million years file FOIA requests to uncover the truth about the local athletic programs. Baylor needs to demand fairness as an institution and go after these other programs. There's nothing to lose anyway. Realignment won't be kind.

This is how it always works.

And if the NCAA gets involved, they'll suspend Cleveland State again.

They will keep their jobs. There will be those in the media who will pressure them. They will stonewall them. And then it will go away, and we'll find something else to talk about.

It happened with Jimbo Fisher, and now he has one of the biggest contracts in sports at aggy. And no one talks about all the rapes at FSU.

A testament to our failed BoR. Thanks BoR. Winning was fun.

Lots of journalists are MSU grads. "Journalists" control the narrative these days.

Mich St clearly isn't run by a bunch of cowards like Baylor is.

When the media asks us to cave....we'll get right on that sir.

So stonewalling is the brave and honorable thing to do.

Keyser Soze said:

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So stonewalling is the brave and honorable thing to do.

---

All you have to do is "win" apparently, the ends justify the means.

That's what the usual suspects have told us all along and now they fawn over the notion someone might do just that.

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

I bet you're loads of fun at parties

Amarillobear said:

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MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

So because you aren't privy to information then action must not have been warranted...

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

Maybe one day the extent of the rot will be for public consumption, but frankly, there's a reason it isn't.

And we didn't buy out Briles, we fired him and gave him a severance settlement.

MilliVanilli said:

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Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

---

Everybody understands the position you are taking. But you really can't blame people or show disdain towards people for coming to alternate conclusions than your own based on what has been by the admission of just about every party involved an almost entirely informationless "reformation" by Baylor.

That approach, right or wrong, inherently breeds distrust. It just does. Call it the nature of man. Isn't it the mission of a Christian institution to be completely transparent? Would God pat someone on the back for legal maneuvering? It's a rightful question under the circumstances that seems central to the larger picture of what Baylor represents. I'm sure that there are more Baylor alums outside of this message board that have doubts about how this was handled.

Let's say that former police chief acted illegally. Shouldn't we serve him up to the Texas Rangers? Or Ramsower? Or a host of other people. They would deserve prison time, right?

Chanceux said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

---

Everybody understands the position you are taking. But you really can't blame people or show disdain towards people for coming to alternate conclusions than your own based on what has been by the admission of just about every party involved an almost entirely informationless "reformation" by Baylor.

That approach, right or wrong, inherently breeds distrust. It just does. Call it the nature of man. Isn't it the mission of a Christian institution to be completely transparent? Would God pat someone on the back for legal maneuvering? It's a rightful question under the circumstances that seems central to the larger picture of what Baylor represents. I'm sure that there are more Baylor alums outside of this message board that have doubts about how this was handled.

Let's say that former police chief acted illegally. Shouldn't we serve him up to the Texas Rangers? Or Ramsower? Or a host of other people. They would deserve prison time, right?

---

Yup. Sometimes the legally right thing to do may not necessarily be the morally right thing to do.

Our leaders burned down the reputation of the school and apparently cared little if it kept the heat off of them by the public. And I guess they succeeded. A large segment of the public talks about how evil our football program was and got what it deserved all along. The school's reputation is in the toilet and few out there have a clue that the systemic failure that caused this was bred and fostered by policies instituted by our leadership long before Briles, Starr or McCaw ever saw the light of Waco. Yet our BOR has apparently been successful in leading the public to think it all was just an athletic program that had no standards and that they were just deceived into thinking all was fine.

Other than changing the headline names that the public saw being removed (how many in the public have any clue that people like Ramsower had anything to do with sweeping assaults under the rug and by the tactics they used), what proof do any of us have that anything different has been instituted that makes a difference.

Don't give me all the PH recommendations that have been installed. What we need are people of integrity that would have resigned their position on the board for being a part of this. That hasn't occurred. We are left with essentially the same group that has continuously done their best to keep the heat off them and keep their alumni as much in the dark as possible.

We burned the school down and the rats and roaches are still here. They have never even issued an apology for doing such crappy job of fiduciary duty that deserves no grade better than an "F".

Chanceux said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

---

Everybody understands the position you are taking. But you really can't blame people or show disdain towards people for coming to alternate conclusions than your own based on what has been by the admission of just about every party involved an almost entirely informationless "reformation" by Baylor.

That approach, right or wrong, inherently breeds distrust. It just does. Call it the nature of man. Isn't it the mission of a Christian institution to be completely transparent? Would God pat someone on the back for legal maneuvering? It's a rightful question under the circumstances that seems central to the larger picture of what Baylor represents. I'm sure that there are more Baylor alums outside of this message board that have doubts about how this was handled.

Let's say that former police chief acted illegally. Shouldn't we serve him up to the Texas Rangers? Or Ramsower? Or a host of other people. They would deserve prison time, right?

---

I agree with the general theme of your post, but there are many zealots that continue to cling to any pro Briles anti-BOR position no matter how much we have learned since May of 2016 - which is a bunch. It is one thing to have an alternative conclusion in June of 16 - not so much in Feb of 18.

There has been nothing to indicate the regents lacked the stones to fire anyone who needed to be fired. Yet there are many who believe RR is being protected with little to support it.


I have always thought RR has a striking resembles to Skeletor ... but again nothing to support they are the same person

Chanceux said:

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MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I don't think anybody is comfortable with that. It's the double standard that's troubling. I don't like knowing that other schools can get away this while Baylor has to self administer a flogging. I don't like knowing that journalists in Austin or Norman or Baton Rouge or Tuscaloosa, etc will never in a million years file FOIA requests to uncover the truth about the local athletic programs. Baylor needs to demand fairness as an institution and go after these other programs. There's nothing to lose anyway. Realignment won't be kind.

---

I have always felt that if you randomly picked any successful P5 level football program out there and subjected it to anything like the kind of anal exam Baylor got between the summer of 2015 and May of 2016, while throwing on top of that the review of a law firm in essence engaged to do everything it can to find evidence to destroy the program while furthermore trashing the school as collateral damage, the result would be little different than what was revealed about our program and in many cases it would've been even worse. In fact if all successful P5 programs subjected themselves to that level of intense scrutiny I would be happy to bet the farm that CAB's program would be about average at worst (and possibly better). Milli can keep on sanctimoniously preaching, but the bottom line is we flat got screwed over and the worst part is we enthusiastically participated in doing it to ourselves.

While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

Keyser Soze said:

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While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

---

I think you are living in a dream world if you really think that. What may be different is that the school itself wasn't essentially participating in the same thing outside the athletic department as to how they treated accusations concerning student sexual assault. The way Baylor was run apparently (I say apparently because no one tells us the whole story) was non-discriminatory.......it tried to make the world think that sexual assault didn't happen at Baylor,whether it be in the athletic department or the English department.

Keyser Soze said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

---

Everybody understands the position you are taking. But you really can't blame people or show disdain towards people for coming to alternate conclusions than your own based on what has been by the admission of just about every party involved an almost entirely informationless "reformation" by Baylor.

That approach, right or wrong, inherently breeds distrust. It just does. Call it the nature of man. Isn't it the mission of a Christian institution to be completely transparent? Would God pat someone on the back for legal maneuvering? It's a rightful question under the circumstances that seems central to the larger picture of what Baylor represents. I'm sure that there are more Baylor alums outside of this message board that have doubts about how this was handled.

Let's say that former police chief acted illegally. Shouldn't we serve him up to the Texas Rangers? Or Ramsower? Or a host of other people. They would deserve prison time, right?

---

I agree with the general theme of your post, but there are many zealots that continue to cling to any pro Briles anti-BOR position no matter how much we have learned since May of 2016 - which is a bunch. It is one thing to have an alternative conclusion in June of 16 - not so much in Feb of 18.

This is true and cannot be refuted.

OTOH the exact same can be said of pro BOR and anti Briles folks.

---

blackie said:

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Keyser Soze said:

---

While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

---

I think you are living in a dream world if you really think that. What may be different is that the school itself wasn't essentially participating in the same thing outside the athletic department as to how they treated accusations concerning student sexual assault. The way Baylor was run apparently (I say apparently because no one tells us the whole story) was non-discriminatory.......it tried to make the world think that sexual assault didn't happen at Baylor,whether it be in the athletic department or the English department.

---

It is not just sexual assault

Assault of multiple women
assault of multiple men
a death threat
academic improprieties
masking agents - tipping off drug testing
fire arms
drug sales
drug use
gang rape
serial rapist
threatening Baylor PD
harassing sexual assault victim
breaking and entering
theft
date rape drugs

It is not a dream, it is a nightmare and the apologetics for it is beyond sad. No doubt some of the callus attitudes from administrators was terrible, but just stop.

Keyser Soze said:

---

Chanceux said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

---

Everybody understands the position you are taking. But you really can't blame people or show disdain towards people for coming to alternate conclusions than your own based on what has been by the admission of just about every party involved an almost entirely informationless "reformation" by Baylor.

That approach, right or wrong, inherently breeds distrust. It just does. Call it the nature of man. Isn't it the mission of a Christian institution to be completely transparent? Would God pat someone on the back for legal maneuvering? It's a rightful question under the circumstances that seems central to the larger picture of what Baylor represents. I'm sure that there are more Baylor alums outside of this message board that have doubts about how this was handled.

Let's say that former police chief acted illegally. Shouldn't we serve him up to the Texas Rangers? Or Ramsower? Or a host of other people. They would deserve prison time, right?

---

I agree with the general theme of your post, but there are many zealots that continue to cling to any pro Briles anti-BOR position no matter how much we have learned since May of 2016 - which is a bunch. It is one thing to have an alternative conclusion in June of 16 - not so much in Feb of 18.

There has been nothing to indicate the regents lacked the stones to fire anyone who needed to be fired. Yet there are many who believe RR is being protected with little to support it.


I have always thought RR has a striking resembles to Skeletor ... but again nothing to support they are the same person

---

Well, like I said. Don't blame them. If the unadulterated truth was spilled bare for all to see then they might be proven wrong in who knows how many numbers of ways. Or maybe not. Or maybe everybody is a little wrong and a little right.

Here's what I know about civil trial defense lawyers: eliminate or mitigate financial damages to a client. Guess how you can do that? Don't fire somebody who knows where the bodies are buried. Pandora's box doesn't get shut. Baylor has always been a shrewd, penny pinching financial institution. Probably because it operates on razor thin margins as a school relative to its state funded sisters. The difference between a bad hire in a position of power at a private school vs a public school is a world apart. The damage is always limited at a state school. The money is limited. It can crush a private school financially.

So, would you fire somebody who might cause irreversible and substantial financial harm to Baylor by opening up more and more lawsuits? Or somebody that can talk to the DOE? Or, do you convince the company man that perhaps retiring early and saving everybody the hassle is the right way out?

Keyser Soze said:

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While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

---

You are sadly mistaken. I live a mile away from a park where to Alabama players were arrested with drugs and guns, and after a couple of days, the DA decides not to press charges because "they need a second chance." BS. Saban's people got to him, and it never made more than a ripple in regional news.

That stuff (and worse) gets swept under the rug at any major institution that brings in athletes that are most likely not suited for higher education. It's happening at Bama now. At Clemson. At Ohio State. But no one wants to set up shop and do the investigative work to find out.

Michigan State shouldn't surprise anyone. Louisville shouldn't surprise anyone. But for some reason, it always does.

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

So because you aren't privy to information then action must not have been warranted...

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

Maybe one day the extent of the rot will be for public consumption, but frankly, there's a reason it isn't.

And we didn't buy out Briles, we fired him and gave him a severance settlement.

---

So if you are privy to information that Coach Briles did anything wrong please serve it up so that we can see it.
You act like you know something that many others here don't know. I don't believe you know anything more than the others here but you want to act like you do. I think that you are simply bloviating.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

---

You are sadly mistaken. I live a mile away from a park where to Alabama players were arrested with drugs and guns, and after a couple of days, the DA decides not to press charges because "they need a second chance." BS. Saban's people got to him, and it never made more than a ripple in regional news.

That stuff (and worse) gets swept under the rug at any major institution that brings in athletes that are most likely not suited for higher education. It's happening at Bama now. At Clemson. At Ohio State. But no one wants to set up shop and do the investigative work to find out.

Michigan State shouldn't surprise anyone. Louisville shouldn't surprise anyone. But for some reason, it always does.

---

Well maybe Xiledinok was correct when he said Briles needed better "fixers"


Let's assume you are correct. Are you OK with that status quo ? or should Baylor be a better place?

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

So because you aren't privy to information then action must not have been warranted...

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

Maybe one day the extent of the rot will be for public consumption, but frankly, there's a reason it isn't.

And we didn't buy out Briles, we fired him and gave him a severance settlement.

---

So if you are privy to information that Coach Briles did anything wrong please serve it up so that we can see it.
You act like you know something that many others here don't know. I don't believe you know anything more than the others here but you want to act like you do. I think that you are simply bloviating.

---

Or, simply a troll.

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

So because you aren't privy to information then action must not have been warranted...

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

Maybe one day the extent of the rot will be for public consumption, but frankly, there's a reason it isn't.

And we didn't buy out Briles, we fired him and gave him a severance settlement.

---

So if you are privy to information that Coach Briles did anything wrong please serve it up so that we can see it.
You act like you know something that many others here don't know. I don't believe you know anything more than the others here but you want to act like you do. I think that you are simply bloviating.

---

You have to be willfully uninformed not to be privy at this point.

Keyser Soze said:

---

While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

---

What about the systematic shielding of the other 90% of students involved in alleged sexual assault or domestic violence cases to the extent that RR and others did?

bearlyafarmer said:

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Keyser Soze said:

---

While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

---

What about the systematic shielding of the other 90% of students involved in alleged sexual assault or domestic violence cases to the extent that RR and others did?

---

Have never heard that?

Please elaborate

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Amarillobear said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Good to know you're perfectly comfortable with inaction if it preserves the status quo.

---

I think the point is being made that we overreacted to the situation since there has never been any proof that Coach Briles did anything wrong yet we bought out his contract. It was wrong for the school itself to have an inadequate Title 9 office and it was wrong for the BOR to try to blame all problems on Coach Briles. The BOR hoped to blame it all on him to take the attention away from their very poor oversight.

---

So because you aren't privy to information then action must not have been warranted...

You really think a popular coach, dynamic fundraising president, an AD, and many lieutenants whose names you'll never know were jettisoned over inadequate Title 9?

Laughable, absolutely laughable.

Maybe one day the extent of the rot will be for public consumption, but frankly, there's a reason it isn't.

And we didn't buy out Briles, we fired him and gave him a severance settlement.

---

So if you are privy to information that Coach Briles did anything wrong please serve it up so that we can see it.
You act like you know something that many others here don't know. I don't believe you know anything more than the others here but you want to act like you do. I think that you are simply bloviating.

---

It's not fit for public consumption, it's that heinous, there's a reason it isn't available for the world to see in full.

Yeah, totally bloviating, so much to gain from bothering to put down myths about Briles and McCaw martyrdom on a message board...

You'll have to ask people that are in the know in private if you actually want to know because it's in no one's best interests the fully ugly truth be available for a media frenzy.

bearlyafarmer said:

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Keyser Soze said:

---

While I agree you could find poor behavior of 20 year old kids at any program, I don't think you would find the systematic shielding of those players to the extent Briles did.

---

What about the systematic shielding of the other 90% of students involved in alleged sexual assault or domestic violence cases to the extent that RR and others did?

---

Thank you, finally some one is saying exactly what I have been saying all along. How can the athletic departments, including football, be blamed for everything when they are not even involved in 90% of it.

THANK YOU.

Of course no one ever blamed athletics for everything