Big 12 is done. Stick a fork in it. We should pull a Costanza and do a pre-emptive breakup. Drop out of the conference before the conference folds.

BarleyMcDougal said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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They could say the same thing about having 4 teams from Texas.

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Actually, no they couldn't. Texas has a population of 30 million. This is just about getting people to watch, giving them ratings and selling ads. The population of Kansas and Oklahoma combined is only 6 million and they have 4 teams.

How is that equal?

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UT and A&M already own every market in the state. You could add A&M and drop every other team from Texas out of the Big 12 and the ratings would be the same. That's my point. Oklahoma owns every market in Oklahoma. Kansas owns every market in Kansas, which is really just KC.

The Big 12 needs new blood or an infusion of old members to get jumpstarted again. The issue is in perception. We all are culturally tied more to the south than to the west or to the north. Midwesterners and Southerners have no business being in a conference together. Always been an odd marriage.

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Witchita counts, largest City in Kansas. Decent ratings up their.

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Yeah you're right. A decently sized city for sure.

I don't particularly care for either UNM or Nevada/UNLV, but they'd add eyeballs. Nevada is one of the fastest growing states and has the Vegas market. New Mexico is a large enough state that it would be worth pulling the Lobos into the fold.

Neither school has cachet, but it would develop over time. I still can't believe we haven't added Tulane to the conference.

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I live in New Mexico and can tell you nobody in NM gives a hoot about UNM.

The issue is that the Big 12 ratings in general aren't that great. It's true that OU and UT do decently in general and even better when they are top 20 teams, but the rest of the conference doesn't do as much in terms of viewership even when they're ranked highly.

Even 2014 Baylor - which was preseason AP top 10 rank and won the Big 12 the prior season - only had 3 regular season games with 3M or more viewers (Tech, TCU and Texas), and add to that that the Baylor v WVU game had 1.64M viewers, Baylor v ISU had 1.3M, and Baylor v Kansas had 322k. That is not going to make networks throw money at the Big 12.

Given that the 2018 Big 12 title game rematch viewership was up 72% over the 2017 game by removing TCU and replacing it with a Texas team that had 1 more loss than that TCU team had when it played, the future in regard to conference $$$ looks bleak and that is made worse by the fact that Disney is consolidating Fox in with it so there will be fewer traditional bidders.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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The issue is that the Big 12 ratings in general aren't that great. It's true that OU and UT do decently in general and even better when they are top 20 teams, but the rest of the conference doesn't do as much in terms of viewership even when they're ranked highly.

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That is true.

But its also true for all the Power 5 conferences.

Think of the ACC outside of Florida State and Clemson football.

The PAC outside of USC, Oregon, Washington.

The Big 10 outside of Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State.

Even the SEC has 14 schools but probably on 4-5 are big tv draws (Bama, LSU, UGA, Florida...maybe Auburn)

Stranger said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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They could say the same thing about having 4 teams from Texas.

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Actually, no they couldn't. Texas has a population of 30 million. This is just about getting people to watch, giving them ratings and selling ads. The population of Kansas and Oklahoma combined is only 6 million and they have 4 teams.

How is that equal?

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UT and A&M already own every market in the state. You could add A&M and drop every other team from Texas out of the Big 12 and the ratings would be the same. That's my point. Oklahoma owns every market in Oklahoma. Kansas owns every market in Kansas, which is really just KC.

The Big 12 needs new blood or an infusion of old members to get jumpstarted again. The issue is in perception. We all are culturally tied more to the south than to the west or to the north. Midwesterners and Southerners have no business being in a conference together. Always been an odd marriage.

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Witchita counts, largest City in Kansas. Decent ratings up their.

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Yeah you're right. A decently sized city for sure.

I don't particularly care for either UNM or Nevada/UNLV, but they'd add eyeballs. Nevada is one of the fastest growing states and has the Vegas market. New Mexico is a large enough state that it would be worth pulling the Lobos into the fold.

Neither school has cachet, but it would develop over time. I still can't believe we haven't added Tulane to the conference.

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I live in New Mexico and can tell you nobody in NM gives a hoot about UNM.

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They'd start caring a whole lot more if all of the sudden they have P5 money and a P5 stadium. If you build it...

Even if every conference only has a few teams that are big draws, there is clearly a difference between the SEC and Big 12:

Big 12 conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
OU v. WVU - 5.63M
Texas v. OU - 5.608M
OU v. ISU - 3.434M
Texas v. Oklahoma State - 3.547M
OU v. TTU - 3.135M
WVU v. Texas - 4.431M
Oklahoma State v. OU - 3.992M
WVU v. Oklahoma State - 3.948M

SEC conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
Auburn v. Bama - 9.123M
Miss State v. Bama - 5.419
Auburn v. UGA - 3.987M
Bama v. LSU - 11.543M
UGA v. UK - 4.392M
UGA v. UF - 6.347M
Bama v. Tenn - 4.305M
Miss State v. LSU - 3.106M
UGA v. LSU - 5.549M
Missouri v. Bama - 3.758M
LSU v. UF - 4.703M
Tenn v. UGA - 3.640M
Texas A&M v. Bama - 5.650M
UGA v. Missouri - 3.328M
LSU v. Auburn - 5.936M
Bama v. Ole MIss - 4.109M

Interestingly enough, the Big 12 2018 title game had the highest Big 12 rating in a game with Big 12 schools playing each other since 2009 and that rating was still lower than Bama v. LSU in 2018.

*This excludes the conference title games since they are not part of the regular season.

Redbrickbear said:

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Aberzombie1892 said:

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Even if every conference only has a few teams that are big draws, there is clearly a difference between the SEC and Big 12:

Big 12 conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
OU v. WVU - 5.63M
Texas v. OU - 5.608M
OU v. ISU - 3.434M
Texas v. Oklahoma State - 3.547M
OU v. TTU - 3.135M
WVU v. Texas - 4.431M
Oklahoma State v. OU - 3.992M
WVU v. Oklahoma State - 3.948M

SEC conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
Auburn v. Bama - 9.123M
Miss State v. Bama - 5.419
Auburn v. UGA - 3.987M
Bama v. LSU - 11.543M
UGA v. UK - 4.392M
UGA v. UF - 6.347M
Bama v. Tenn - 4.305M
Miss State v. LSU - 3.106M
UGA v. LSU - 5.549M
Missouri v. Bama - 3.758M
LSU v. UF - 4.703M
Tenn v. UGA - 3.640M
Texas A&M v. Bama - 5.650M
UGA v. Missouri - 3.328M
LSU v. Auburn - 5.936M
Bama v. Ole MIss - 4.109M

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True

Helps that the SEC has 4 more teams....creates more inventory for tv.

Plus having the Florida (21 million) and Georgia (11 million) population markets helps as well.

Its one of the only real drags on the Big 12 that it depends heavily on the Texas market (near 30 million).....we need another large market that cares about college football.

Its why aggy getting pissed and leaving was not a major blow to the conference. (Big 12 already has that market)

But losing Colorado (6 million person state) was probably a more serious loss.

The Big 12 has no real choice but to stay at 10 members and try and maximize revenue....or....try and poach teams from new markets.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Even if every conference only has a few teams that are big draws, there is clearly a difference between the SEC and Big 12:

Big 12 conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
OU v. WVU - 5.63M
Texas v. OU - 5.608M
OU v. ISU - 3.434M
Texas v. Oklahoma State - 3.547M
OU v. TTU - 3.135M
WVU v. Texas - 4.431M
Oklahoma State v. OU - 3.992M
WVU v. Oklahoma State - 3.948M

SEC conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
Auburn v. Bama - 9.123M
Miss State v. Bama - 5.419
Auburn v. UGA - 3.987M
Bama v. LSU - 11.543M
UGA v. UK - 4.392M
UGA v. UF - 6.347M
Bama v. Tenn - 4.305M
Miss State v. LSU - 3.106M
UGA v. LSU - 5.549M
Missouri v. Bama - 3.758M
LSU v. UF - 4.703M
Tenn v. UGA - 3.640M
Texas A&M v. Bama - 5.650M
UGA v. Missouri - 3.328M
LSU v. Auburn - 5.936M
Bama v. Ole MIss - 4.109M

Interestingly enough, the Big 12 2018 title game had the highest Big 12 rating in a game with Big 12 schools playing each other since 2009 and that rating was still lower than Bama v. LSU in 2018.

*This excludes the conference title games since they are not part of the regular season.

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One wonders how many of those 11.5MM viewers of the Bama-LSU game were like me and sound asleep before the end of the 1st quarter out of sheer boredom.

Bama is the differentiator

They are compelling for the average sports fan

bularry said:

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Bama is the differentiator

They are compelling for the average sports fan

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They're hated, which to a tv network is far more valuable than being loved.

Cowboys, Yankees, Red Sox, Duke, Bama, UT, Ohio St, Florida, etc. All of those are hated and they get great ratings.

Aberzombie1892 said:

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Even if every conference only has a few teams that are big draws, there is clearly a difference between the SEC and Big 12:

Big 12 conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
OU v. WVU - 5.63M
Texas v. OU - 5.608M
OU v. ISU - 3.434M
Texas v. Oklahoma State - 3.547M
OU v. TTU - 3.135M
WVU v. Texas - 4.431M
Oklahoma State v. OU - 3.992M
WVU v. Oklahoma State - 3.948M

SEC conference games* with more than 3M viewers in 2018:
Auburn v. Bama - 9.123M
Miss State v. Bama - 5.419
Auburn v. UGA - 3.987M
Bama v. LSU - 11.543M
UGA v. UK - 4.392M
UGA v. UF - 6.347M
Bama v. Tenn - 4.305M
Miss State v. LSU - 3.106M
UGA v. LSU - 5.549M
Missouri v. Bama - 3.758M
LSU v. UF - 4.703M
Tenn v. UGA - 3.640M
Texas A&M v. Bama - 5.650M
UGA v. Missouri - 3.328M
LSU v. Auburn - 5.936M
Bama v. Ole MIss - 4.109M

Interestingly enough, the Big 12 2018 title game had the highest Big 12 rating in a game with Big 12 schools playing each other since 2009 and that rating was still lower than Bama v. LSU in 2018.

*This excludes the conference title games since they are not part of the regular season.

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Some of this is a reflection of network carriage. A dog of a game on ABC is likely going to get more eyeballs than a game on ESPN, and a game on ESPN is going to get more views than a game on FS1. When so many B12 games are on FS1, well, viewership is going to be down.

It would be interesting to compare how conferences did on each channel; i.e., only compare games on ABC, only compare games on Fox, only compare games on ESPN, etc.

For example, my suspicion is that B12 games on FS1 did better than PAC games on FS1, and maybe equal to or better than B12 games on that network.

monarch said:

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Nobody WANTS to rejoin or be new additions to the BDF. Baylor sports are irrelevant outside of McClennan County; understand that

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NSFW

https://some.ly/OT78G2/

monarch said:

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Nobody WANTS to rejoin or be new additions to the BDF. Baylor sports are irrelevant outside of McClennan County; understand that

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Hey look! An aggy troll!

Bear8084 said:

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monarch said:

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Nobody WANTS to rejoin or be new additions to the BDF. Baylor sports are irrelevant outside of McClennan County; understand that

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Hey look! An aggy troll!

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You can see their low IQ ass coming a mile away.

Back to your homo-erotic bull sh*, Soviet style campus, and poultry science classes aggy.

Michibear said:

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Some of this is a reflection of network carriage. A dog of a game on ABC is likely going to get more eyeballs than a game on ESPN, and a game on ESPN is going to get more views than a game on FS1. When so many B12 games are on FS1, well, viewership is going to be down.

It would be interesting to compare how conferences did on each channel; i.e., only compare games on ABC, only compare games on Fox, only compare games on ESPN, etc.

For example, my suspicion is that B12 games on FS1 did better than PAC games on FS1, and maybe equal to or better than B12 games on that network.

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Games with over $3M viewers - Big 12/SEC - ABC, FOX, CBS, and ESPN (Primary) games only.

Big 12
OU/WVU - 5.63M ESPN
WVU/OSU - 3.9M ABC
OSU/OU - 3.992M ABC
WVU/TX - 4.431M FOX
OU/TTU - 3.134M ABC
UT/OSU - 3.547M ABC
TX/OSU - 3.547M ABC
UT/OU - 5.608M FOX

SEC
AUB/Bama - 9.132M CBS
MS State/Bama - 5.419M CBS
AUB//UGA - 3.987M ESPN
Bama/LSU - 11.543M CBS
UGA-UK - 4.392M CBS
UGA-UF - 6.347M CBS
Bama-TN - 4.305 CBS
MS State/LSU - 3.106M ESPN
UGA/LSU - 5.539M CBS
MIZ/Bama - 3.758M ESPN
LSU/UF - 4.703M CBS
TN-UGA - 3.64M CBS
TX A&M/Bama - 5.65M CBS
UGA/MIZ - 3.328M ESPN
LSU/AUB - 5.936M CBS
Bama/Ole Miss - 4.109M ESPN
UGA/SC - 3.747M CBS

It's difficult to read much into this since big SEC games appear to primarily be on CBS while big Big 12 games are on ABC and there is no crossover there. That being said, the Big 12 conference game with the most viewership - the OU/WVU play in game for the Big 12 title game - had higher ratings on ESPN than any of the 5 SEC games to appear on that channel, however, at the same time, the SEC had 5 games on CBS with higher ratings than that game.

Games with under $3M viewers - Big 12/SEC - ABC, FOX, CBS, and ESPN (Primary) games only.
Big 12
OSU-TCU - 1.615 FOX
KU-OU - 2.762M FOX
UT-TTU - 2.679M FOX
KSU-OU - 1.989M FOX
TTU-TCU 1.233M ESPN
TCU-UT - 2.887M FOX
KSU-WVU - 1.241M ESPN

SEC
ARK-MIZ - 1.919M CBS
MS State-Ole Miss - 1.108M ESPN
MIZ-TN - 2.025M CBS
AUB-MS State - 1.036M ESPN
Ole Miss - Texas A&M - 2.138M CBS
SC-UF - 2.068M ESPN
Texas A&M-AUB - 2.622M ESPN
Texas A&M-MS State - 2.178M ESPN
AUB-Ole Miss - 2.211M ESPN
UF-Vandy - 2.497M ESPN
Uk-Texas A&M - 2.547M ESPN
Bama-ARK -2.495M ESPN
Ole MIss-LSU 2.023M ESPN
UF-MIss State 1.903M ESPN
ARK-Texas A&M - 1.596M ESPN
UF-TN - 2.108M ESPN

There may be something of note here in that FOX seems to have a lot of the Big 12's less desirable games and ESPN appears to have a lot of the SEC's less desirable games. In regard to FOX, maybe that possibly plays a role in their interest. It's hard to say.

When, if ever, is the UT/ESPN LHN contract up? Wasn't it originally for 10 years?

The Big12 was once every bit as competitive as the SEC. When we lost Nebraska, Mizzou and aggy it went to hell. Colorado didn't matter.

Sports entertainment is now too expensive. Bowlsby might as well sell Big 12 Bonds if he really thinks the product is worth $20 million.

Brian Ethridge said:

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Stranger said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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OldBurlyBear86 said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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They could say the same thing about having 4 teams from Texas.

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Actually, no they couldn't. Texas has a population of 30 million. This is just about getting people to watch, giving them ratings and selling ads. The population of Kansas and Oklahoma combined is only 6 million and they have 4 teams.

How is that equal?

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UT and A&M already own every market in the state. You could add A&M and drop every other team from Texas out of the Big 12 and the ratings would be the same. That's my point. Oklahoma owns every market in Oklahoma. Kansas owns every market in Kansas, which is really just KC.

The Big 12 needs new blood or an infusion of old members to get jumpstarted again. The issue is in perception. We all are culturally tied more to the south than to the west or to the north. Midwesterners and Southerners have no business being in a conference together. Always been an odd marriage.

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Witchita counts, largest City in Kansas. Decent ratings up their.

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Yeah you're right. A decently sized city for sure.

I don't particularly care for either UNM or Nevada/UNLV, but they'd add eyeballs. Nevada is one of the fastest growing states and has the Vegas market. New Mexico is a large enough state that it would be worth pulling the Lobos into the fold.

Neither school has cachet, but it would develop over time. I still can't believe we haven't added Tulane to the conference.

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I live in New Mexico and can tell you nobody in NM gives a hoot about UNM.

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Everybody I run into in ABQ loves UNM.

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You probably run with fellow fans. FWIW I think NCAA football has experienced declining interest the last few years and Bama/Clemson every year isn't helping.

As for adding the Arizona schools in football (yuk). I think ASU has won one Pac 12 Title since their entrance decades ago and AU has yet to win one.

Basketball. Yes. I thought we were talking football. My bad.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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CHP Bear said:

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Per Barking Carnival, Fox will not pick up 2019, 21 and 23 games. Reasons are money and competing with ACC and SEC games. Further in the article, "This appears to be yet another Canary in the Coal Mine for the long-term survival of the Big 12. The league is a mile wide and 6 feet deep, in terms of being a media draw." "That's what can happen when almost 70% of all the TV households in your conference reside in one state."

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Other than an easy win, there is no need to have two teams each from Oklahoma and Kansas. That was a flaw of the Big8 that was never fixed. Force them to play one another and they can play us, but we would be better off playing Arizona, USC, or a team in the South.

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They could say the same thing about having 4 teams from Texas. No other conference has population issues like the Big 12. Nobody watches football on the west coast, but they do have the numbers.

Football needs to blend scheduling to fix the longterm problem. We'd benefit from a basketball-like "showdown" with the SEC. Or, we need to go get Nebraska and another team back in the fold.

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Some combination of Nebraska/Missouri/Arky wouldn't be bad. But right now we have five teams that simply don't put eyeballs on the TV sets and that's why the game is being dropped. They simply don't carry their weight. There are enough eyeballs on TV sets in Texas to carry Baylor. We need to play relevant teams in the eyes of the network. Four teams with a collective population of 30 million easily beats 5 teams with a collective population of 8 million.

The simple truth is we get nothing financially out of playing: Okla, Okla St, Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas State. Just not enough market share in those markets to carry an advertiser.

I say we pick two of those that are best and play them each year.

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If your state population logic was correct the average OSU or OU game would have fewer viewers than the average Baylor game. Unfortunately, we only run about half the viewers of an OSU game. Heck OU, had 1.5 million more viewers for its regular season games than UT in 2018.

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Board/105475/Contents/College-Football-TV-Ratings-121508375/

If your state's population cares about your state program (think Ala, LSU, OU, Clemson) your TV ratings will soar when you compare a state like Texas where loyalties and hatred are split 30 different ways

As to OU viewers outpacing UT perhaps LHN had something to do with that. I'd wager no OU games were televised on such a limited network.

The aggy fans are also limited if they do not subscribe to SEC network.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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If your state's population cares about your state program (think Ala, LSU, OU, Clemson) your TV ratings will soar when you compare a state like Texas where loyalties and hatred are split 30 different ways

As to OU viewers outpacing UT perhaps LHN had something to do with that. I'd wager no OU games were televised on such a limited network.

The aggy fans are also limited if they do not subscribe to SEC network.

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Agree. College TV viewership in a state has a lot to do with the presence of the NFL which waaayy outdraws college.

As far as the OU example, they had some pay per view games not in that total.

Just making the point that state population by itself (as one poster is trying to posit) has little to do with TV value.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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If your state's population cares about your state program (think Ala, LSU, OU, Clemson) your TV ratings will soar when you compare a state like Texas where loyalties and hatred are split 30 different ways

As to OU viewers outpacing UT perhaps LHN had something to do with that. I'd wager no OU games were televised on such a limited network.

The aggy fans are also limited if they do not subscribe to SEC network.

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Lots of people outside of Alabama are watching their games. Same for LSU. They have broader appeal due to success

bularry said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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If your state's population cares about your state program (think Ala, LSU, OU, Clemson) your TV ratings will soar when you compare a state like Texas where loyalties and hatred are split 30 different ways

As to OU viewers outpacing UT perhaps LHN had something to do with that. I'd wager no OU games were televised on such a limited network.

The aggy fans are also limited if they do not subscribe to SEC network.

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Lots of people outside of Alabama are watching their games. Same for LSU. They have broader appeal due to success

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The SEC population watches SEC games. The Southeastern U.S. loves football (sports in general) more than any other part of the country. And now it's the fastest growing part of the country.

There is a reason their slogan last year was "It just means more".

BarleyMcDougal said:

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bularry said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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If your state's population cares about your state program (think Ala, LSU, OU, Clemson) your TV ratings will soar when you compare a state like Texas where loyalties and hatred are split 30 different ways

As to OU viewers outpacing UT perhaps LHN had something to do with that. I'd wager no OU games were televised on such a limited network.

The aggy fans are also limited if they do not subscribe to SEC network.

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Lots of people outside of Alabama are watching their games. Same for LSU. They have broader appeal due to success

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The SEC population watches SEC games. The Southeastern U.S. loves football (sports in general) more than any other part of the country. And now it's the fastest growing part of the country.

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Yes, but they don't get those ratings only from the South. And agree, faster growing area plus fan interest is very high

Aliceinbubbleland said:

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There is a reason their slogan last year was "It just means more".

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That's because if one of them wins the NC, everyone in the conference gets to put up a National Champions sign in their stadium.



OK, maybe not everyone, but Aggy would.

whitetrash said:

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Aliceinbubbleland said:

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There is a reason their slogan last year was "It just means more".

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That's because if one of them wins the NC, everyone in the conference gets to put up a National Champions sign in their stadium.



OK, maybe not everyone, but Aggy would.

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Hahaha. So true. They're kinda willfully blind as a conference. I wouldn't cheer for UT if they were playing ISIS in the natty. It is what it is.