Has Dave Aranda ever faced the Art briles offense or a form of it? I know Lebby is gone and Ole miss might not run it in the bowl game. Would love to see how he would dissect it and attack it. Just curious

vg1984 said:

---

Has Dave Aranda ever faced the Art briles offense or a form of it? I know Lebby is gone and Ole miss might not run it in the bowl game. Would love to see how he would dissect it and attack it. Just curious

---

Probably in practice when he was on Briles staff at UH.

PartyBear said:

---

vg1984 said:

---

Has Dave Aranda ever faced the Art briles offense or a form of it? I know Lebby is gone and Ole miss might not run it in the bowl game. Would love to see how he would dissect it and attack it. Just curious

---

Probably in practice when he was on Briles staff at UH.

---

I honestly did not realize he was on Briles staff in 2003-2004.

The Veer & Shoot offense is really specific and employed by relatively few teams in the way Briles ran it. It requires a lot out of your personnel to spread field and create gaps, and recruiting to it can be a challenge. I'm sure Aranda is extremely familiar with it, but we won't have played anything like it in the time our current group was on the field.

Honestly other than Lebby, it's not really been implemented all that well by his coaching tree. Babers, Montgomery, Gilbert, Lynch, Sowder have all had kind of middling results with it. Kendal did well with it until he got back into a P5 conference, and Arkansas showed some flashes but I know their fanbase isn't all that enamored with their offensive performance as a whole.

Josh Heupel at Tennessee is the first coach outside the Briles tree I'm aware of to implement a whole cloth Briles Veer & Shoot offense faithfully. His returns were relatively promising in 2021, which means that the V&S accounted for the #2, #5 and #7 offenses in the SEC. Not too shabby.

Also didn't realize that Aranda and Tom Herman were teammates at Cal Lutheran:

https://www.callutheran.edu/news/11090.html

Quote:

---

The roots of Cal Lutheran's massive coaching tree start with Bob Shoup, the program's first head coach. The NAIA Hall of Famer won a national championship for the school in 1971. In his 28 seasons, he coached 186 players that would go on to coach at some level. That is nearly one out of every four men that put on a jersey during Shoup's career.

---

I think Lebby will be gone, so that could help.

texillian said:

---

Also didn't realize that Aranda and Tom Herman were teammates at Cal Lutheran:

https://www.callutheran.edu/news/11090.html

Quote:

---

The roots of Cal Lutheran's massive coaching tree start with Bob Shoup, the program's first head coach. The NAIA Hall of Famer won a national championship for the school in 1971. In his 28 seasons, he coached 186 players that would go on to coach at some level. That is nearly one out of every four men that put on a jersey during Shoup's career.

---

---

Welcome, come stay a while.

IIRC, Aranda said last year that he was roommates with Herman. He said Herman never stopped talking! I think his comments were in the presser before the Texas game if anyone wants to search.

Thank you for the in depth reply parch. Appreciate it

Both Briles and now Aranda brought Big 12 Championships to Baylor. Both should be honored by Baylor for their success

The V&S offense is really tactically interesting, in that it's essentially a sub-variant of another variant of another variant. It's like the center doll of a really weird spread offense Matryoshka doll.

But the one element that will always leave it a niche outsider adopted in its pure form by relatively few OCs is the tempo requirement. The creation of space, favorable matchups, and the branching route trees you're asking receivers to come up with on snap judgment reads can't exist if let the defense set up. Which means speed all the time. Which means you're losing TOP battles hand over fist. Which means you're forcing your defense to take sometimes 50-75% more snaps than your offense. We were actually doubled up a couple times.

No self-respecting defensive coordinator wants to play for a team schemed out for the V&S. Even if you have a phenomenal defensive gameplan, it can feel at times like you're actually playing against two offenses.

How many games in the Briles era did TV announcers mention how he didn't care shout time of possession? Multiple

I wonder if Aranda's habit of going for it on 4th almost regardless of where we are on the field is some of the Briles influence. Perhaps it isnt. But the broadcasters the other day were talking about how unusual that is for a defense oriented HC. At the time they were discussing this we had made a critical mistake doing so which put OSU in position to almost win the championship.

historian said:

---

How many games in the Briles era did TV announcers mention how he didn't care shout time of possession? Multiple

---

What's interesting is that we generally had a punishing running game.

We just also ran at a really fast pace and often scored fast so it didn't matter.

And he absolutely didn't care about TOP (Ole Miss doesn't either btw). He made this clear multiple times. It was a feature of his system he liked to tout, not a bug.

Of course you could kind of sense Phil Bennett hearing those things somewhere in the background and rolling his eyes. This is a lesson Baby Briles has certainly taken to heart, and something the Arkansas forums have been on fire about since October. Their clock management has been spotty, because there isn't much thought given to clock management when you're always in a 2-minute drill.

The way it typically went is the better our offense played, the worse our defense played. Our defenses actually weren't that bad in the Veer & Shoot era (I think we peaked out nationally in the #30's somewhere), but they had the individual talent to be much better than they were.

It's an exciting and relatively innovative offensive system, obviously, but I always felt like it was sort of like a vintage Ferrari. Unbelievably high speeds but the motor requires a lot of maintenance and very specific conditions to work properly. We have more of a rugged Land Rover spread now. More durable, more adaptable, more plug-and-play. And infinitely more defense-friendly.

Yeah, I think it's interesting that Venables is going this route at OU, as a head guy who is primarily defensive minded. He does have to get a good offensive guy and basically hand the reins over on that side of the ball; at the same time, that system is going to put a lot more pressure on his D. Surely he knows that and thinks he's prepared for it. Going to be interesting to see how that works out for him.

I think it's also possible Lebby sacrifices some of the core tempo principles at the altar of practicality in Norman and turns away from a strict V&S like he has now. Kiffin is an offensive guy and decided he wanted the system for his next head coaching gig come hell or high water while he was at Alabama. He didn't hire Lebby for Lebby, he hired him because he happened to be the best available option who ran that system.

Venables is obviously coming from a very different background and mentality, and he certainly isn't enamored with the V&S itself. As you say, the type of offense OU churns out next year will be super interesting. I'm personally really excited to see our defensive schemes up against it in New Orleans.

One thing we experienced, is when the V&S doesn't work, it can get you in big trouble. Your offense eats no clock and is off the field very fast. 3 and outs are killer for your defense. If our D can get some 3 and outs and our offense can grind, that could be fun.

Fascinating observations about the R&V offense. As others noticed, I was amazed how well we ran from it. when working on all cylinders, it puts tremendous pressure on the defense.

I noticed how gassed our defense was by the end of many games during the Briles tenure. I'm wondering if a strategy (which we didn't seem to employ) is recruit more bodies on defense and substitute more. Even if it meant the quality of our unit for some downs was less.

I was most impressed with how Briles adjusted his offense each year to the players he had available. It went from pass happy in the early years to a well balanced running / passing machine in later years.

Definitely, I would say the run implementation is probably the most unique thing about the Veer & Shoot. Most traditional spreads pass to set up the run, while the V&S is the opposite - a lot of designed vertical power runs out of the RPO to set up passing lanes. If you look at footage of the long breaking TD runs we had in the Briles years, almost all of them are between the tackles.

You'll see two vastly different spread concepts on Jan. 1, which is why this game should be so fun under the hood. Briles (and by extension Lebby) wanted huge dudes up front blasting holes for vertical gainers on ground and air. Grimes' RVO is an outside zone concept, so lots of horizontal movement and deception to set up the middle for runs at the second and third tier for long gainers.

Ay Baylor prepares for Ole Miss in the Sugar Bowl, Dave Aranda is going up against an offensive scheme he knows how to beat all too well. The spread.

Here's the linebacker and defensive line shade tools that'll boost the Bears over the Rebs

full clip https://t.co/eBDeQu4mxG pic.twitter.com/gRPB5CbwtN

— Football Coach™️ (@footballdothow) December 9, 2021

OddFire71 said:

---

I was most impressed with how Briles adjusted his offense each year to the players he had available. It went from pass happy in the early years to a well balanced running / passing machine in later years.

---

This transition was due to the improved quality of linemen we had in CAB's latter years. Wasn't so much an adjustment as it was the progression of the offense when you had the studs up front to run it properly.

You might want to proofread!

Art won 2 Championships with a top O. Aranda just won a Championship with a 37th ranked O, but a great D. If Baylor can get at least a 20th ranked O, the D won't have to try to win the game every week. Grimes O is above average, but penalties and injuries have slowed it down.

Well both were true …

I haven't really watched Ole Miss, but if their offense is like our Briles offense was, then I think stopping the run will be key. Aranda won't let them burn us in the passing game, but we'll probably need to bring 5 rushers regularly like we did against OU to get off the field. If Ole Miss has their own Terrance Ganaway gashing us up the middle, it will be a long game. We did well against OSU in the Big 12 CCG, though they were sorely missing Warren.

Based on their results, I'm expecting a back and forth tight game. I don't think we're overmatched the way Rhule's runner-up team was against Georgia, so I'm ready to see the Bears win a major bowl!

The Banterer said:

---

I haven't really watched Ole Miss, but if their offense is like our Briles offense was, then I think stopping the run will be key. Aranda won't let them burn us in the passing game, but we'll probably need to bring 5 rushers regularly like we did against OU to get off the field. If Ole Miss has their own Terrance Ganaway gashing us up the middle, it will be a long game. We did well against OSU in the Big 12 CCG, though they were sorely missing Warren.

Based on their results, I'm expecting a back and forth tight game. I don't think we're overmatched the way Rhule's runner-up team was against Georgia, so I'm ready to see the Bears win a major bowl!

---

Me too. Seriously

I really believe our O is much better than we've shown the last 3 games, only averaging 22.7 points per game. With everyone healthy, I predict 34-24 Bears.

I guess we found out what Aranda's defense can do to that offense.

I loved it, partially because Lebby had the tools and scheme to run it with Altmyer, who despite his inexperience was a highly touted 4-star recruit ranked #21 nationwide at his position - the Ole Miss offense was good enough to score more than 7, I can tell you that. Lebby tried to flatten the field a little bit, but otherwise it was the same offense Corral ran, we just smashed it into pieces.

As we've said, the V&S is predicated on the run, including designed QB options. We sacked Altmyer 7 times (Corral 3) and limited them to 138 total rushing yards. Conner/Ealy were afterthoughts. A lot of the press focused on the fact that we didn't have to face Corral, but we shut down all the pieces around him as well. Roberts/Aranda completely out-schemed Lebby/Kiffin. It was fun to see.

parch said:

---

The V&S offense is really tactically interesting, in that it's essentially a sub-variant of another variant of another variant.

---

D***. Didnt realize we were running a Covid offense back in the day.

Married A Horn said:

---

parch said:

---

The V&S offense is really tactically interesting, in that it's essentially a sub-variant of another variant of another variant.

---

D***. Didnt realize we were running a Covid offense back in the day.

---

"The Pandemic Offense: Impossible to shut down"

lol - I laughed

parch said:

---

I loved it, partially because Lebby had the tools and scheme to run it with Altmyer, who despite his inexperience was a highly touted 4-star recruit ranked #21 nationwide at his position - the Ole Miss offense was good enough to score more than 7, I can tell you that. Lebby tried to flatten the field a little bit, but otherwise it was the same offense Corral ran, we just smashed it into pieces.

As we've said, the V&S is predicated on the run, including designed QB options. We sacked Altmyer 7 times (Corral 3) and limited them to 138 total rushing yards. Conner/Ealy were afterthoughts. A lot of the press focused on the fact that we didn't have to face Corral, but we shut down all the pieces around him as well. Roberts/Aranda completely out-schemed Lebby/Kiffin. It was fun to see.

---

They did indeed, and Kiffin admitted it in the postgame presser.

Would've been fun to watch Art and Roberts/Aranda go at it. Art is an offensive mastermind. Aranda/Roberts are the equivalent on defense. Lebby, well, he's Art's son in law. He's fine, but you don't get Art because you hired Lebby. I think that's a weird hire for Venables. Be interesting to see how that goes.