P3 funding for downtown revitalization

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CammoTX
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Study envisions new downtown, possible P3 project funding for Waco

Downtown Waco's future may include a baseball stadium, cinema complex, performing arts center, a river boardwalk and a complex of large municipal and private office buildings. The plans are part of a consultant possible solution to consolidating scattered city operations and reimagining the downtown area from Mary Avenue to Waco Drive.

Schematic drawings show mid-rise office buildings and public parking around Heritage Square, including a 100,000-square-foot municipal building, a facility three times larger than the current City Hall.

Other proposed changes:

Office buildings and parking garages west of Fourth Street alongside the ALICO Building and Roosevelt Tower.

Multistory buildings on Austin Avenue, opening onto a new plaza across Washington.

Indian Spring Middle School would be converted into a multi-block urban residential complex, with the track and field next to the school becoming a Double-A minor league baseball stadium and a cinema multiplex.

A small "harbor" from the Brazos River would extend toward the stadium, offering a boathouse.

A $100 million performing arts center on a 6-acre riverfront site.

Razing the Waco Convention Center and Hilton Hotel and moving them to Franklin Avenue. That would allow a large green space from City Hall to the suspension bridge and riverfront.

City officials hope to publish a request for proposals later this year for the city parking lots around City Hall. Project funding will most likely take the form of a public-private partnership (P3), according to officials.
BaylorHistory
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CammoTX said:

Downtown Waco's future may include a baseball stadium, cinema complex, performing arts center, a river boardwalk...
cowboycwr
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Some of this sounds good but some of it is absolute pie in the sky thinking like so many other downtown/riverfront projects.

I also did not know WISD planned on getting rid of Indian Springs??
BaylorHistory
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I just hope we get the performing arts complex out of all of that. I know that has been a plan for a bit.
baylorguy09
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Well Baylor has already agreed to commit money towards the Performing Arts Center, so I am sure that will happen at some point over the next 10 years.

Baseball stadium and cinema seems pointless at this point. They have tried twice with the baseball stadium and both have never come to fruition.

I wish Waco would put in a really nice amphitheater/park similar to Waterloo in Austin. I think it would attact some good acts to come through Waco between Austin and Dallas. It would be a nice asset to Cameron Park and downtown.

Eventually, the growth will come this way from Austin. Austin is bursting at the seams and cannot keep up with the infrastructure. I see more of that industry coming to Waco with it being central to Austin and Dallas.
Redbrickbear
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CammoTX said:

Study envisions new downtown, possible P3 project funding for Waco

Downtown Waco's future may include a baseball stadium, cinema complex, performing arts center, a river boardwalk and a complex of large municipal and private office buildings. The plans are part of a consultant possible solution to consolidating scattered city operations and reimagining the downtown area from Mary Avenue to Waco Drive.

Schematic drawings show mid-rise office buildings and public parking around Heritage Square, including a 100,000-square-foot municipal building, a facility three times larger than the current City Hall.

Other proposed changes:

Office buildings and parking garages west of Fourth Street alongside the ALICO Building and Roosevelt Tower.

Multistory buildings on Austin Avenue, opening onto a new plaza across Washington.

Indian Spring Middle School would be converted into a multi-block urban residential complex, with the track and field next to the school becoming a Double-A minor league baseball stadium and a cinema multiplex.

A small "harbor" from the Brazos River would extend toward the stadium, offering a boathouse.

A $100 million performing arts center on a 6-acre riverfront site.

Razing the Waco Convention Center and Hilton Hotel and moving them to Franklin Avenue. That would allow a large green space from City Hall to the suspension bridge and riverfront.

City officials hope to publish a request for proposals later this year for the city parking lots around City Hall. Project funding will most likely take the form of a public-private partnership (P3), according to officials.
That would be beautiful.

But don't know if its a smart economic move to tear town a Convention Center just for green space.
Eleven-League Grant
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Quote:

That would be beautiful.

But don't know if its a smart economic move to tear town a Convention Center just for green space. [url=https://sicem365.com/forums/27/topics/122800][/url]
Yes, it's only been 10 years since the city dropped $17.5 million to renovate the place.

I guess it's part of the beauty of spending someone else's money and then changing a few nebulous spreadsheet assumptions to make the numbers 'work'.
PartyBear
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I wonder where on Franklin they plan on putting the new Convention Center and Hilton.
cowboycwr
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PartyBear said:

I wonder where on Franklin they plan on putting the new Convention Center and Hilton.
Especially when they are pretty much right next to Franklin anyways. Or at least the back side of the convention center and the Hilton parking lot are on Franklin.
Nguyen One Soon
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My dear departed wife worked for the City from the mid '70's until the mid '80's. One of her coworkers had a set of book shelves completely full of different proposals for bringIng downtown into the 20th Century. Hint: None of them ever came to fruition. I know things are much better now than they were then, but let's not waste millions more on pie in the sky projects.
PartyBear
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cowboycwr said:

PartyBear said:

I wonder where on Franklin they plan on putting the new Convention Center and Hilton.
Especially when they are pretty much right next to Franklin anyways. Or at least the back side of the convention center and the Hilton parking lot are on Franklin.
Franklin is developed all the way to VM drive and then some. They are going to have to make offers the owners of buildings cant refuse to build on Franklin anywhere from the river to 25 street which I would assume somewhere in that location is what they are talking about. Additionally to just duplicate the current Hilton and convention center, they will need to have about two full blocks at least, I would think which means it would also be on either Austin Avenue or Mary.
Calrocks94
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Outside of downtown they really need to be developed LaSalle
So much wasted potential there first off the flea market got to go. It's a big pile of junk. But I'm all for more development downtown Waco has so much potential.
cowboycwr
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PartyBear said:

cowboycwr said:

PartyBear said:

I wonder where on Franklin they plan on putting the new Convention Center and Hilton.
Especially when they are pretty much right next to Franklin anyways. Or at least the back side of the convention center and the Hilton parking lot are on Franklin.
Franklin is developed all the way to VM drive and then some. They are going to have to make offers the owners of buildings cant refuse to build on Franklin anywhere from the river to 25 street which I would assume somewhere in that location is what they are talking about. Additionally to just duplicate the current Hilton and convention center, they will need to have about two full blocks at least, I would think.


Yup. And putting a new convention center and Hilton anywhere past about 5th street doesn't make sense. Putting it past there takes it out of the immediate downtown area and away from the other hotels and high growth area.
OsoCoreyell
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Calrocks94 said:

Outside of downtown they really need to be developed LaSalle
So much wasted potential there first off the flea market got to go. It's a big pile of junk. But I'm all for more development downtown Waco has so much potential.
I had heard that the Gains' were looking at buying the flea market and turning it back into a drive-in. That would be quite a gift to Waco.
Calrocks94
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I mean just do something with it it's nasty. I went once before I graduated. It was one big pile of crap. Also get rid of the strip club. It's just so much potential for la sale that they're just wasting.
baylorguy09
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Calrocks94 said:

I mean just do something with it it's nasty. I went once before I graduated. It was one big pile of crap. Also get rid of the strip club. It's just so much potential for la sale that they're just wasting.


I have never understood why they don't develop La Salle into a sort of Austin-style Guadalupe Street. Restaurants and retail all the way from University Parks to the circle.
Grinnin bear
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I love a good Waco Revitalization architectural rendering. One of my favorite pastimes, actually.
BaylorHistory
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Calrocks94 said:

I mean just do something with it it's nasty. I went once before I graduated. It was one big pile of crap.
You can take the pulga from my cold, dead hands.
FirmBear24
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I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
T-REX
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FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
Agreed.

As for Lasalle, so much economical potential there. Huge investment but can be done with out any drastic changes. Rezone if needed & provide the right tax incentives. Boom. Bar/restaurant/retail strip a few miles long like 1 said above from uparks to the circle.
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Baylor MBA 2023
THE BAYLOR APOLOGY TOUR IS OVER!!!
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cowboycwr
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FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
Lund Vernquist
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I wonder how a USL League Two soccer team would do. Currently there are clubs in College Station and Corpus among others.
BaylorHistory
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Lund Vernquist said:

I wonder how a USL League Two soccer team would do. Currently there are clubs in College Station and Corpus among others.


I'd buy season tickets, but they'd probably need to sell more than 1.
BCL79
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Lund Vernquist said:

I wonder how a USL League Two soccer team would do. Currently there are clubs in College Station and Corpus among others.
Not well ... I live in College Station and I have no knowledge of a USL team here (and my son was very active in soccer here till he graduated HS a couple years ago).
UrsinusInfction
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Lund Vernquist said:

I wonder how a USL League Two soccer team would do. Currently there are clubs in College Station and Corpus among others.


Was curious about this so I looked up their schedule. 12 games spread out from late May to mid July wouldn't drive a whole lot of traffic due to heat imo.
Robert Wilson
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cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
I don't know. It would be interesting and I think turn a lot on marketing. Blue Cats tanked b/c the entire league tanked.

Tons of baseball fans around Waco - many driving to Arlington several times a year. For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball. Recently, it's easy to understand. If Mitch gets things rolling, Baylor oughta come out with a loud and proud Baylor-is-Waco-Waco-is-Baylor marketing campaign for Baylor baseball. Helps that Mitch stayed in Waco and did so well at MCC. Problem is ... I'm afraid Baylor doesn't really want to do that. Briles is the only one I can remember really making that kind of noise. A little from the Mulk.
BaylorHistory
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Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball.
No beer
Robert Wilson
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BaylorHistory said:

Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball.
No beer
That's probably part of it. Gotta admit a couple beers really help a baseball game.
Calrocks94
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Baylor also needs to desperate put money into the stadium. It is need of a facelift. They need a new video board. It's too tiny. It's the same one from Floyd Casey.
T-REX
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Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
I don't know. It would be interesting and I think turn a lot on marketing. Blue Cats tanked b/c the entire league tanked.

Tons of baseball fans around Waco - many driving to Arlington several times a year. For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball. Recently, it's easy to understand. If Mitch gets things rolling, Baylor oughta come out with a loud and proud Baylor-is-Waco-Waco-is-Baylor marketing campaign for Baylor baseball. Helps that Mitch stayed in Waco and did so well at MCC. Problem is ... I'm afraid Baylor doesn't really want to do that. Briles is the only one I can remember really making that kind of noise. A little from the Mulk.
Baylor is already currently starting to market as wacos team. Lot of "This is bear country" billboards went up recently. Mayor Meek & President Livingstone popped the Baylor bubble the second Foster broke ground.
DFW Baylor Social Media Promoter
Baylor MBA 2023
THE BAYLOR APOLOGY TOUR IS OVER!!!
Twitter: T_REX1991
Instagram: t_rex_bu
cowboycwr
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Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
I don't know. It would be interesting and I think turn a lot on marketing. Blue Cats tanked b/c the entire league tanked.

Tons of baseball fans around Waco - many driving to Arlington several times a year. For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball. Recently, it's easy to understand. If Mitch gets things rolling, Baylor oughta come out with a loud and proud Baylor-is-Waco-Waco-is-Baylor marketing campaign for Baylor baseball. Helps that Mitch stayed in Waco and did so well at MCC. Problem is ... I'm afraid Baylor doesn't really want to do that. Briles is the only one I can remember really making that kind of noise. A little from the Mulk.
I don't think it would do well at all.

Your average baseball fan probably cannot name a single college player or minor league player.

They go to the pro games. How many Waco people drive down to round rock for games? I would think the number is small.
Redbrickbear
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T-REX said:

Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
I don't know. It would be interesting and I think turn a lot on marketing. Blue Cats tanked b/c the entire league tanked.

Tons of baseball fans around Waco - many driving to Arlington several times a year. For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball. Recently, it's easy to understand. If Mitch gets things rolling, Baylor oughta come out with a loud and proud Baylor-is-Waco-Waco-is-Baylor marketing campaign for Baylor baseball. Helps that Mitch stayed in Waco and did so well at MCC. Problem is ... I'm afraid Baylor doesn't really want to do that. Briles is the only one I can remember really making that kind of noise. A little from the Mulk.
Baylor is already currently starting to market as wacos team. Lot of "This is bear country" billboards went up recently. Mayor Meek & President Livingstone popped the Baylor bubble the second Foster broke ground.

I hope so...but we will see.

Its hard to get areas to buy into a local private school.

USC when its winning...Miami when its football team is winning...Notre Dame....these are a few I can think of.

Even Duke (with a long time successful basketball program) does not get much buy in from local Durham residents.

Its very hard for a private school.

No one in Nashville for instance cares about Vanderbilt athletics.
CammoTX
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Redbrickbear said:

T-REX said:

Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
I don't know. It would be interesting and I think turn a lot on marketing. Blue Cats tanked b/c the entire league tanked.

Tons of baseball fans around Waco - many driving to Arlington several times a year. For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball. Recently, it's easy to understand. If Mitch gets things rolling, Baylor oughta come out with a loud and proud Baylor-is-Waco-Waco-is-Baylor marketing campaign for Baylor baseball. Helps that Mitch stayed in Waco and did so well at MCC. Problem is ... I'm afraid Baylor doesn't really want to do that. Briles is the only one I can remember really making that kind of noise. A little from the Mulk.
Baylor is already currently starting to market as wacos team. Lot of "This is bear country" billboards went up recently. Mayor Meek & President Livingstone popped the Baylor bubble the second Foster broke ground.

I hope so...but we will see.

Its hard to get areas to buy into a local private school.

USC when its winning...Miami when its football team is winning...Notre Dame....these are a few I can think of.

Even Duke (with a long time successful basketball program) does not get much buy in from local Durham residents.

Its very hard for a private school.

No one in Nashville for instance cares about Vanderbilt athletics.


Syracuse, Creighton and Gonzaga would disagree.
Redbrickbear
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CammoTX said:

Redbrickbear said:

T-REX said:

Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
I don't know. It would be interesting and I think turn a lot on marketing. Blue Cats tanked b/c the entire league tanked.

Tons of baseball fans around Waco - many driving to Arlington several times a year. For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball. Recently, it's easy to understand. If Mitch gets things rolling, Baylor oughta come out with a loud and proud Baylor-is-Waco-Waco-is-Baylor marketing campaign for Baylor baseball. Helps that Mitch stayed in Waco and did so well at MCC. Problem is ... I'm afraid Baylor doesn't really want to do that. Briles is the only one I can remember really making that kind of noise. A little from the Mulk.
Baylor is already currently starting to market as wacos team. Lot of "This is bear country" billboards went up recently. Mayor Meek & President Livingstone popped the Baylor bubble the second Foster broke ground.

I hope so...but we will see.

Its hard to get areas to buy into a local private school.

USC when its winning...Miami when its football team is winning...Notre Dame....these are a few I can think of.

Even Duke (with a long time successful basketball program) does not get much buy in from local Durham residents.

Its very hard for a private school.

No one in Nashville for instance cares about Vanderbilt athletics.


Syracuse, Creighton and Gonzaga would disagree.

Does Creighton really have that kind of local support?
FrankFallonCalling
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Redbrickbear said:

CammoTX said:

Redbrickbear said:

T-REX said:

Robert Wilson said:

cowboycwr said:

FirmBear24 said:

I can't imagine there is any demand for minor league/semi pro baseball downtown. Seems like a colossal waste of real estate and resources. If the locals want baseball, hop on down to see Baylor and get a grandstand seat for $10. Children under 12 get in free.
So true. A new minor league team won't do well when you already have a college team close, a pro team just an hour and a half away, a minor league team close and have failed multiple times at sports in the city- hockey, arena football Bellmead's plans for a minor league team, etc.
I don't know. It would be interesting and I think turn a lot on marketing. Blue Cats tanked b/c the entire league tanked.

Tons of baseball fans around Waco - many driving to Arlington several times a year. For whatever reason, most of those local baseball fans won't show up for Baylor baseball. Recently, it's easy to understand. If Mitch gets things rolling, Baylor oughta come out with a loud and proud Baylor-is-Waco-Waco-is-Baylor marketing campaign for Baylor baseball. Helps that Mitch stayed in Waco and did so well at MCC. Problem is ... I'm afraid Baylor doesn't really want to do that. Briles is the only one I can remember really making that kind of noise. A little from the Mulk.
Baylor is already currently starting to market as wacos team. Lot of "This is bear country" billboards went up recently. Mayor Meek & President Livingstone popped the Baylor bubble the second Foster broke ground.

I hope so...but we will see.

Its hard to get areas to buy into a local private school.

USC when its winning...Miami when its football team is winning...Notre Dame....these are a few I can think of.

Even Duke (with a long time successful basketball program) does not get much buy in from local Durham residents.

Its very hard for a private school.

No one in Nashville for instance cares about Vanderbilt athletics.


Syracuse, Creighton and Gonzaga would disagree.

Does Creighton really have that kind of local support?

Yes. Omaha is a Nebraska football town, but sells out for the Jays in the winter.

I would add Marquette to that list.
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