https://www.fox44news.com/news/local-news/local/cameron-park-zoo-plans-new-expansion-project/





WACO, Texas The fate of a $14.5 million expansion project at Cameron Park Zoo will be in the hands of voters.

The McLennan County Commissioners Court gave its approval to put the issue on the November 5th, 2019 ballot.

The Cameron Par Zoological & Botanical Society received approval last week from Waco's City Council members on the potential expansion project.
Executive Director Terri Cox and Cameron Park Zoo Interim Director Johnny Binder presented the expansion project Tuesday to the McLennan County Commissioners Court.
Zoo leaders say the bond will not impact property taxes. The expansion project will include Penguin Shores, a habitat for critically endangered South African black-footed penguins, an Education and Veterinary Complex, and renovations to the Zoo's existing animal commissary and hoofstock barn.
Cameron Park Zoo currently has 1,628 animals and 70 exhibits on 52 acres.
Source: Cameron Park Zoo

A bond issue with zero tax rate increase. Even so, it might still face an uphill climb with voters. Anything to do with property taxes is viewed quite negatively with many citizens.

As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

I'm curious were you opposed to the city helping build McLane? Are you opposed to the city helping with all the other developments.

CorsicanaBear said:

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As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

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BaylorGuy314 said:

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Coyote Bear said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

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I believe they only called for $148MM. $177MM was recommended.

I'll be voting for the bond. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that they should've proceeded with $177MM. It's going to be needed and what's really the difference anyways?? $20 on a $100k home?

School facilities are one of the best places a community should invest.

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Agree 100%. Midway is exploding and the planned growth with no additional schools would create a problem. Additional schools are desperately needed. The one for the indoor practice facility a few years back was much more questionable re: want vs need.

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From the outside looking in, it seems suburban schools (Midway, China Springs, Robinson, etc.) are thriving, while Waco ISD is barely surviving. Is there any hope to get WISD more competitive, where parents of children don't feel the need to head out to stronger school districts?

CorsicanaBear said:

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As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

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Midway put together a rather large committee of parents, citizens, and educators to examine the current and future needs of the district. This group spent several months touring facilities and hashing out their suggestions. Their final recommendation was to call for a $177 million bond to meet these needs.

After reviewing their recommendations the board settled on calling a $148 million bond which will result in a 1 cent per hundred dollar valuation decrease in the I&S tax rate. The current I&S rate of $0.28 would go to $0.27. The bond election will be this November.

As a future note, the Texas legislature voted to compress M&O rates for schools districts state-wide. This means that Midway's current $1.04 M&O rate will drop to $0.97 per hundred dollar valuation. Should the bond pass the overall Midway tax rate will drop from the current $1.32 to $1.24 ($0.97 M&O + $0.27 I&S).

CorsicanaBear said:

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As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

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Presumably you're completely against zoos and similar facilities. It's really hard for a city to build a zoo out of cash on hand. I would argue that it's not just entertainment. It's educational and it's a decent tourist draw. It's a great facility and one of the things that makes Waco a better place.

On the Midway ISD bond election do you have an objection other than a potential tax increase? The growth in the area presents some real needs for more capacity.

boxster said:

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BaylorGuy314 said:

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Coyote Bear said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

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I believe they only called for $148MM. $177MM was recommended.

I'll be voting for the bond. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that they should've proceeded with $177MM. It's going to be needed and what's really the difference anyways?? $20 on a $100k home?

School facilities are one of the best places a community should invest.

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Agree 100%. Midway is exploding and the planned growth with no additional schools would create a problem. Additional schools are desperately needed. The one for the indoor practice facility a few years back was much more questionable re: want vs need.

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From the outside looking in, it seems suburban schools (Midway, China Springs, Robinson, etc.) are thriving, while Waco ISD is barely surviving. Is there any hope to get WISD more competitive, where parents of children don't feel the need to head out to stronger school districts?

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Wisd has a lot of problems in the ivory tower downtown. The district is very top heavy with way too many chiefs running their own little fiefdoms. Each department has its own ideas and there is little communication between them.

The teachers do the best they do but constantly get hampered by the people at the top who constantly come up with ideas to fix things. The problem is again they often contradict each other in all the little fiefdoms of separate ideas.

The other problem is what many districts face. It is hard to fix the school system when the community doesn't support it, sends in students very behind the curve, uninvolved parents, and worse the parents who don't see the value or point of education.

Zoos, love 'em. I'm a Waco Zoo member/contributor. But just because I like something (or you do) does not make it right to tax people to support it. If we can tax people to build zoos (or football stadiums) are there any limits on the power of taxation?

Public libraries. Dead. Only use is for bums to watch porn and sleep. If you want your kids to enjoy books buy them yourself and spend time reading to them like I did for mine. Loved Public Libraries as a kid, so I understand the nostalgia, but there are better ways now.

School bonds. When the superintendent agrees to a pay cut, lays off every one with the word "curriculum" in their title, and cuts the number of coaches then I'll believe they need more money.

$0.01 tax rate cut. They are laughing all the way to the bank on this one. When the pirates at MCAD raise values 10% every year we still wind up paying more tax ( the definition of a tax increase). Nobody's tax bill will go down.

Vote no on bonds. Make them cut administrative and entertainment overhead (athletics).

CorsicanaBear said:

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Zoos, love 'em. I'm a Waco Zoo member/contributor. But just because I like something (or you do) does not make it right to tax people to support it. If we can tax people to build zoos (or football stadiums) are there any limits on the power of taxation?

Public libraries. Dead. Only use is for bums to watch porn and sleep. If you want your kids to enjoy books buy them yourself and spend time reading to them like I did for mine. Loved Public Libraries as a kid, so I understand the nostalgia, but there are better ways now.

School bonds. When the superintendent agrees to a pay cut, lays off every one with the word "curriculum" in their title, and cuts the number of coaches then I'll believe they need more money.

$0.01 tax rate cut. They are laughing all the way to the bank on this one. When the pirates at MCAD raise values 10% every year we still wind up paying more tax ( the definition of a tax increase). Nobody's tax bill will go down.

Vote no on bonds. Make them cut administrative and entertainment overhead (athletics).

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Zoos- agreed

Libraries- mostly agree but I think the Waco ones do a good job with their summer reading programs, computer use restrictions that prevent porn, computer use for people without access, reading programs during the year and other events. Overall though I think they are still dying and will be a thing of the past in many cities.

School bonds- agree on all of it except coaches. Superintendents get paid way too much. Most districts have way to many people in the admin building who have zero influence or impact on the kids.

Coaches I would agree to cut the coaches who only coach. Way to many schools have head coaches, offensive coordinators, DC, basketball head coach, etc that don't teach. They all should be in the classroom except the head coach who is the campus athletic director (or district at smaller districts).

The tax rate cuts are a joke like you said. The appraisal district seems to think values are increasing way too much in McLennan county.

The problem with voting no is that the board/superintendent won't cut their pay or administrative costs. They cut teachers to force the voters to vote yes.

A great example of this is a local district doing exactly that. The voters said no. They cut teachers at all campuses, gave the superintendent a raise to make her the 4th highest paid in the county while being the 7th or 8th largest district in the county and said it was because the voters said no and they couldn't afford to keep everyone. The cut long time teachers, coaches, the entire band staff, art teachers, long time language teachers, science, etc and had to cut several classes when they couldn't find teachers for special subjects.

I disagree with your "coaches not in the classroom" take but as for school districts and their admin costs.... there is a topic I will avoid for my own sanity.

NoLayUps21 said:

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I disagree with your "coaches not in the classroom" take but as for school districts and their admin costs.... there is a topic I will avoid for my own sanity.

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What about it do you disagree with?

The FACT is there are a lot of coaches that do not teach anything. Not even PE.

That is silly at the high school level other than the head coach who serves as the campus AD or district AD.

cowboycwr said:

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NoLayUps21 said:

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I disagree with your "coaches not in the classroom" take but as for school districts and their admin costs.... there is a topic I will avoid for my own sanity.

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What about it do you disagree with?

The FACT is there are a lot of coaches that do not teach anything. Not even PE.

That is silly at the high school level other than the head coach who serves as the campus AD or district AD.

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There are other roles in a school that a coach can fill that is not teaching in classroom. If that gets a better coach in, that's fine. In school suspension, transportation head, facilities head, etc.

I am with you that there are places that take advantage of this and give coaches jobs that they have no background in (a coach being district "director of discipline" comes to mind). However I'm fine with a coach having an auxiliary role that is not necessarily teaching in a classroom.

Tax payers should not have to pay for your children to play sports through school taxes. Period. You want them to play sports, you pay. I'll pay for them to learn math and science (an actual benefit to society and notice I did not mention humanities). You pay for them to play sports.

NoLayUps21 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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NoLayUps21 said:

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I disagree with your "coaches not in the classroom" take but as for school districts and their admin costs.... there is a topic I will avoid for my own sanity.

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What about it do you disagree with?

The FACT is there are a lot of coaches that do not teach anything. Not even PE.

That is silly at the high school level other than the head coach who serves as the campus AD or district AD.

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There are other roles in a school that a coach can fill that is not teaching in classroom. If that gets a better coach in, that's fine. In school suspension, transportation head, facilities head, etc.

I am with you that there are places that take advantage of this and give coaches jobs that they have no background in (a coach being district "director of discipline" comes to mind). However I'm fine with a coach having an auxiliary role that is not necessarily teaching in a classroom.

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Nope. They should be teaching and those roles should be filled with people who are qualified for the job.

Iss can be filled with an aide or a teacher who doesn't leave for a conference period, two athletic periods and leave early all the time for games.

Transportation head- nope. They are not qualified for that. That should be filled by someone else with experience in transportation. Like the head mechanic or something.

Facilities head- nope. Again someone more qualified.
And again someone who has experience and can take care of things.

Both of those roles also then have a person who is gone a lot for practice and games or in other words an absent leader.

Coaches should be in the classroom or in roles they are qualified for. Not made up titles and positions just to give them an easy job.

I will say this to frame my viewpoint for you, I am a teacher/coach. However, unlike most coaches I LOVE teaching and wouldn't want to ever leave the classroom. I have also been in small, title 1 districts with my current school being a 4A title 1 district. If you are in Midway, Allen, or Carroll-type districts then yes; I agree 100% with your statements (minus the ISS but that's very low on the totem pole).

You make a very good point about absences. That's also why I think coaches are a good fit for some of these support roles at the lower/middle levels. One year, I missed 37 afternoons. That's almost 20% of instructional time. That's not fair to kids, which is the whole reason we are hear (hopefully).

I would also like to say that we should face facts: 75% of coaches (rough estimate) do not put remotely the amount of care into a lesson that a non-coach teacher does. My school has two phenomenal coaches that teach their respective sports at an elite level. However they give token efforts in the classroom because they frankly don't like the classroom. I know guys in Frisco and Prosper ISD that go through the curriculum provided with little enthusiasm or energy given more than the minimum.

You can say that it's the fault of principals for letting that slide but their hands are tied.

I do believe good coaches have good organizational and managing skills, which would be high on my list of desired qualities for a facilities or transportation director to have.

I'm enjoying this discussion, FYI. It is very insightful to hear these perspectives that I have not considered.

Part of the zoo expansion needs to include an "events center". If done correctly, a place for corporate events, civic events, wedding receptions, fraternity/sorority events that could accommodate 500ish people would be great. Have it around the lemur island area or overlooking the Savannah. Ft Zoo, Zoo Atlanta, and Greenville (SC) Zoo have similar spaces.

cowboycwr said:

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boxster said:

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BaylorGuy314 said:

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Coyote Bear said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

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I believe they only called for $148MM. $177MM was recommended.

I'll be voting for the bond. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that they should've proceeded with $177MM. It's going to be needed and what's really the difference anyways?? $20 on a $100k home?

School facilities are one of the best places a community should invest.

---

Agree 100%. Midway is exploding and the planned growth with no additional schools would create a problem. Additional schools are desperately needed. The one for the indoor practice facility a few years back was much more questionable re: want vs need.

---

From the outside looking in, it seems suburban schools (Midway, China Springs, Robinson, etc.) are thriving, while Waco ISD is barely surviving. Is there any hope to get WISD more competitive, where parents of children don't feel the need to head out to stronger school districts?

---

Wisd has a lot of problems in the ivory tower downtown. The district is very top heavy with way too many chiefs running their own little fiefdoms. Each department has its own ideas and there is little communication between them.

The teachers do the best they do but constantly get hampered by the people at the top who constantly come up with ideas to fix things. The problem is again they often contradict each other in all the little fiefdoms of separate ideas.

The other problem is what many districts face. It is hard to fix the school system when the community doesn't support it, sends in students very behind the curve, uninvolved parents, and worse the parents who don't see the value or point of education.

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Cowboy, you are spot on. My wife works for wisd and we agree 100%.

On the zoo expansion, I will vote for anything that helps save a species with is going extinct due to us. My vote will be yes.

NoLayUps21 said:

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I will say this to frame my viewpoint for you, I am a teacher/coach. However, unlike most coaches I LOVE teaching and wouldn't want to ever leave the classroom. I have also been in small, title 1 districts with my current school being a 4A title 1 district. If you are in Midway, Allen, or Carroll-type districts then yes; I agree 100% with your statements (minus the ISS but that's very low on the totem pole).

You make a very good point about absences. That's also why I think coaches are a good fit for some of these support roles at the lower/middle levels. One year, I missed 37 afternoons. That's almost 20% of instructional time. That's not fair to kids, which is the whole reason we are hear (hopefully).

I would also like to say that we should face facts: 75% of coaches (rough estimate) do not put remotely the amount of care into a lesson that a non-coach teacher does. My school has two phenomenal coaches that teach their respective sports at an elite level. However they give token efforts in the classroom because they frankly don't like the classroom. I know guys in Frisco and Prosper ISD that go through the curriculum provided with little enthusiasm or energy given more than the minimum.

You can say that it's the fault of principals for letting that slide but their hands are tied.

I do believe good coaches have good organizational and managing skills, which would be high on my list of desired qualities for a facilities or transportation director to have.

I'm enjoying this discussion, FYI. It is very insightful to hear these perspectives that I have not considered.

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I coached for years before going a different direction with my career.

To me the ISS matter depends on the school if it is high or low. A school with high population in ISS doesn't need multiple periods where they are having to pull someone else to cover it.

I agree that many coaches do not spend much time on their lesson plans. Which is a shame.

To me they are all teachers first. The majority of their salary comes from teaching. Not coaching. They need to remember this when it comes to lesson plans.

The principals hands shouldn't be tied. If they do their job and can show that a coach is a bad teacher they can put them on a growth plan, change subjects or be able to get rid of them.

While I agree coaches have good management and organizational skills I do not think they have the skills needed for those two jobs. They do not understand or know anything about transportation or facilities maintenance. If they applied for those positions with a company and not in education they would not even get an interview.

pitchman said:

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cowboycwr said:

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boxster said:

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BaylorGuy314 said:

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Coyote Bear said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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As well it might. Governments do not need to be borrowing money for entertainment (a zoo). I'll vote against.

On a related note Midway ISD is looking at a $177million bond issue which is above their current bond capacity at the current tax rate of $126million and would lead to a tax increase. I'll be voting against that one too.

---

I believe they only called for $148MM. $177MM was recommended.

I'll be voting for the bond. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that they should've proceeded with $177MM. It's going to be needed and what's really the difference anyways?? $20 on a $100k home?

School facilities are one of the best places a community should invest.

---

Agree 100%. Midway is exploding and the planned growth with no additional schools would create a problem. Additional schools are desperately needed. The one for the indoor practice facility a few years back was much more questionable re: want vs need.

---

From the outside looking in, it seems suburban schools (Midway, China Springs, Robinson, etc.) are thriving, while Waco ISD is barely surviving. Is there any hope to get WISD more competitive, where parents of children don't feel the need to head out to stronger school districts?

---

Wisd has a lot of problems in the ivory tower downtown. The district is very top heavy with way too many chiefs running their own little fiefdoms. Each department has its own ideas and there is little communication between them.

The teachers do the best they do but constantly get hampered by the people at the top who constantly come up with ideas to fix things. The problem is again they often contradict each other in all the little fiefdoms of separate ideas.

The other problem is what many districts face. It is hard to fix the school system when the community doesn't support it, sends in students very behind the curve, uninvolved parents, and worse the parents who don't see the value or point of education.

---

Cowboy, you are spot on. My wife works for wisd and we agree 100%.

On the zoo expansion, I will vote for anything that helps save a species with is going extinct due to us. My vote will be yes.

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Agree on the zoo.

Wisd could have its own thread on here where everyone lists all the problems of that district. It would be a long, long, long thread.

Volunteer said:

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cowboycwr said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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$0.01 tax rate cut. They are laughing all the way to the bank on this one. When the pirates at MCAD raise values 10% every year we still wind up paying more tax ( the definition of a tax increase). Nobody's tax bill will go down.

Vote no on bonds. Make them cut administrative and entertainment overhead (athletics).

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The tax rate cuts are a joke like you said. The appraisal district seems to think values are increasing way too much in McLennan county.

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Folks, it ain't MCAD that has caused the dramatic increase in our property valuations. It's our representatives in Austin. By state law, at least once every two years, the state comptroller's office must accomplish what is called the Property Value Survey (PVS) for every school district in Texas. With this mechanism the comptroller tells each district what the aggregate property values must be within each school district. For example, the comptroller will generate a target property value of say $15 billion for properties within the Waco ISD. MCAD must hit this property value level within +/-5%. If they do not, they've got a year to fix it or risk Waco ISD losing state funding.

Increases in property values are baked into the state budget. Here's the language from our two most recent state budgets:

From the most recent biennium budget:
Article III, Page 5, Paragraph 3 of SB1 (the budget)
"Property values, and the estimates of local tax collections on which they are based, shall be increased bt 7.04% for tax year 2017, and by 6.77% for tax year 2018"

From our current budget:
Article III, Page 5, Paragraph 3d
"...and assumed increases in property values, and the estimates of local tax collections on which they are based, as estimated by the Comptroller of Public Accounts, of 5.76% for tax year 2019 and by 4.01% for tax year 2020".

The Comptroller uses these mandated valuation increases to generate the percentage increases required in the PVS.

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Except that before those years my taxes increased as well....

And that friends outside of McLennan county don't see increases like McLennan county does....

So yes it may start in Austin as to why there is some increase each year. But mcad is responsible for the rest. Especially when it is large jumps.

bularry said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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Zoos, love 'em. I'm a Waco Zoo member/contributor. But just because I like something (or you do) does not make it right to tax people to support it. If we can tax people to build zoos (or football stadiums) are there any limits on the power of taxation?

Public libraries. Dead. Only use is for bums to watch porn and sleep. If you want your kids to enjoy books buy them yourself and spend time reading to them like I did for mine. Loved Public Libraries as a kid, so I understand the nostalgia, but there are better ways now.

School bonds. When the superintendent agrees to a pay cut, lays off every one with the word "curriculum" in their title, and cuts the number of coaches then I'll believe they need more money.

$0.01 tax rate cut. They are laughing all the way to the bank on this one. When the pirates at MCAD raise values 10% every year we still wind up paying more tax ( the definition of a tax increase). Nobody's tax bill will go down.

Vote no on bonds. Make them cut administrative and entertainment overhead (athletics).

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This mindset is destroying America,,IMO. No taxes, I'll keep mine!! Community matters and paying as a collective matters.

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God forbid we give people the freedom to choose how to spend their money. What a hellscape that would be.

cowboycwr said:

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Volunteer said:

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cowboycwr said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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$0.01 tax rate cut. They are laughing all the way to the bank on this one. When the pirates at MCAD raise values 10% every year we still wind up paying more tax ( the definition of a tax increase). Nobody's tax bill will go down.

Vote no on bonds. Make them cut administrative and entertainment overhead (athletics).

---

The tax rate cuts are a joke like you said. The appraisal district seems to think values are increasing way too much in McLennan county.

---

Folks, it ain't MCAD that has caused the dramatic increase in our property valuations. It's our representatives in Austin. By state law, at least once every two years, the state comptroller's office must accomplish what is called the Property Value Survey (PVS) for every school district in Texas. With this mechanism the comptroller tells each district what the aggregate property values must be within each school district. For example, the comptroller will generate a target property value of say $15 billion for properties within the Waco ISD. MCAD must hit this property value level within +/-5%. If they do not, they've got a year to fix it or risk Waco ISD losing state funding.

Increases in property values are baked into the state budget. Here's the language from our two most recent state budgets:

From the most recent biennium budget:
Article III, Page 5, Paragraph 3 of SB1 (the budget)
"Property values, and the estimates of local tax collections on which they are based, shall be increased bt 7.04% for tax year 2017, and by 6.77% for tax year 2018"

From our current budget:
Article III, Page 5, Paragraph 3d
"...and assumed increases in property values, and the estimates of local tax collections on which they are based, as estimated by the Comptroller of Public Accounts, of 5.76% for tax year 2019 and by 4.01% for tax year 2020".

The Comptroller uses these mandated valuation increases to generate the percentage increases required in the PVS.

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Except that before those years my taxes increased as well....

And that friends outside of McLennan county don't see increases like McLennan county does....

So yes it may start in Austin as to why there is some increase each year. But mcad is responsible for the rest. Especially when it is large jumps.

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Come pay DFW taxes and increases. Trust me. That is not a Waco only problem. It's obscene. And this game has been played by the tea party blow hards in Austin for a LONG time. Per child expenditures in Texas has been declining while our property taxes keep skyrocketing. And the suits in Austin have done zero to actually fix it.