Thoughts? The houses look beautiful and in a great natural setting. But a long haul after a night at George's or Diamondbacks. Anybody have any first hand experience?
Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
Yeah, and it's a reasonable fear on the part of any competitive grocery store like Brookshire's. HEB is the 800 pound gorilla in the Texas supermarket industry. If I was Brookshire's I would want to stay as far away as reasonably possible from one of their stores. I remember when Walmart was opening on Hewitt Drive a number of folks suggested this would hurt the HEB at the corner of Hwy 84 and Estates Drive. Personally, I thought it might negatively impact HEB as well. But, I don't think it did a damn thing. HEB continues to blow and go.BaylorGuy314 said:HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
BaylorGuy314 said:HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
Volunteer said:Yeah, and it's a reasonable fear on the part of any competitive grocery store like Brookshire's. HEB is the 800 pound gorilla in the Texas supermarket industry. If I was Brookshire's I would want to stay as far away as reasonably possible from one of their stores. I remember when Walmart was opening on Hewitt Drive a number of folks suggested this would hurt the HEB at the corner of Hwy 84 and Estates Drive. Personally, I thought it might negatively impact HEB as well. But, I don't think it did a damn thing. HEB continues to blow and go.BaylorGuy314 said:HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
Good insight, thanks.Rog said:BaylorGuy314 said:HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
I do a lot of business with and work closely with HEB store planners, I can tell you as of right now there is zero talk internally of building on that property. They always say that might change, but they're much more focused on growing Houston, Austin, & SA.
As for living in the Preserve or CS area, it's as my good friend crash would say "Waco-far"... It's not really that far to anything, people in Waco just don't like going further than 15 minutes for anything.
I wonder if one of things - aside from the great sub-prime mortgage fiasco - that has somewhat restricted the growth in China Spring is that the area is not incorporated. There isn't a China Spring "town". No China Spring police force and no China Spring fire department (maybe there's a volunteer group). To be honest I haven't really kept up with the area, but maybe much of the China Spring area has already been annexed by Waco.BaylorGuy314 said:Volunteer said:Yeah, and it's a reasonable fear on the part of any competitive grocery store like Brookshire's. HEB is the 800 pound gorilla in the Texas supermarket industry. If I was Brookshire's I would want to stay as far away as reasonably possible from one of their stores. I remember when Walmart was opening on Hewitt Drive a number of folks suggested this would hurt the HEB at the corner of Hwy 84 and Estates Drive. Personally, I thought it might negatively impact HEB as well. But, I don't think it did a damn thing. HEB continues to blow and go.BaylorGuy314 said:HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
Absolutely. I get it. Brookshires is a great operation but they can't compete with the big boys (Wal-Mart and HEB being the biggest in Texas). They thrive in places like China Spring but if they pushed forward and then an HEB came along 5 years later, it would be a huge loss for them, financially.
Strategically, I get why HEB did what they did. They were likely looking at the map of Waco at the time (they bought the land not long after they opened in Woodway) and recognized the growth pattern and took advantage, knowing that the 19th street store was not long for this world. Frankly, this was pre-mortgage crisis so they likely thought the CS growth was going to accelerate faster than it has (even though it has grown substantially).
Still, I wish someone would push forward out there. I can't blame anyone for being scared of HEB and, frankly, they should be. But China Spring is a great school district and great area. It has plenty of room to grow but needs more retail. If a decent grocery chain was a certainty in the near future, I think you'd see increased growth which would fuel additional retail, which would fuel growth, etc, and it would really take off.
It's possible that not being incorporated is an issue but Waco extends it's services well into China Spring, so it has pretty reliable utility and service infrastructure. I think the biggest thing that has hurt it is that most of the job growth has been on the southwest side of town (Woodway/Hewitt/etc) over the last 10 years, especially in the more white collar arena.Volunteer said:I wonder if one of things - aside from the great sub-prime mortgage fiasco - that has somewhat restricted the growth in China Spring is that the area is not incorporated. There isn't a China Spring "town". No China Spring police force and no China Spring fire department (maybe there's a volunteer group). To be honest I haven't really kept up with the area, but maybe much of the China Spring area has already been annexed by Waco.BaylorGuy314 said:Volunteer said:Yeah, and it's a reasonable fear on the part of any competitive grocery store like Brookshire's. HEB is the 800 pound gorilla in the Texas supermarket industry. If I was Brookshire's I would want to stay as far away as reasonably possible from one of their stores. I remember when Walmart was opening on Hewitt Drive a number of folks suggested this would hurt the HEB at the corner of Hwy 84 and Estates Drive. Personally, I thought it might negatively impact HEB as well. But, I don't think it did a damn thing. HEB continues to blow and go.BaylorGuy314 said:HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
Absolutely. I get it. Brookshires is a great operation but they can't compete with the big boys (Wal-Mart and HEB being the biggest in Texas). They thrive in places like China Spring but if they pushed forward and then an HEB came along 5 years later, it would be a huge loss for them, financially.
Strategically, I get why HEB did what they did. They were likely looking at the map of Waco at the time (they bought the land not long after they opened in Woodway) and recognized the growth pattern and took advantage, knowing that the 19th street store was not long for this world. Frankly, this was pre-mortgage crisis so they likely thought the CS growth was going to accelerate faster than it has (even though it has grown substantially).
Still, I wish someone would push forward out there. I can't blame anyone for being scared of HEB and, frankly, they should be. But China Spring is a great school district and great area. It has plenty of room to grow but needs more retail. If a decent grocery chain was a certainty in the near future, I think you'd see increased growth which would fuel additional retail, which would fuel growth, etc, and it would really take off.
Volunteer said:I wonder if one of things - aside from the great sub-prime mortgage fiasco - that has somewhat restricted the growth in China Spring is that the area is not incorporated. There isn't a China Spring "town". No China Spring police force and no China Spring fire department (maybe there's a volunteer group). To be honest I haven't really kept up with the area, but maybe much of the China Spring area has already been annexed by Waco.BaylorGuy314 said:Volunteer said:Yeah, and it's a reasonable fear on the part of any competitive grocery store like Brookshire's. HEB is the 800 pound gorilla in the Texas supermarket industry. If I was Brookshire's I would want to stay as far away as reasonably possible from one of their stores. I remember when Walmart was opening on Hewitt Drive a number of folks suggested this would hurt the HEB at the corner of Hwy 84 and Estates Drive. Personally, I thought it might negatively impact HEB as well. But, I don't think it did a damn thing. HEB continues to blow and go.BaylorGuy314 said:HEB bought 25 acres at the corner of 19th and Lake Shore back in 2006. They still own it so I believe their intention is, legitimately, to put a location there. But I don't know timeline and every time another chain comes looking at that China Spring area, HEB seems to ramp up discussions as a scare tactic.Grinnin bear said:
314, does HEB just talk about that China Spring store store to keep other stores (i.e. Brookshires) from ever making the plunge)?
Absolutely. I get it. Brookshires is a great operation but they can't compete with the big boys (Wal-Mart and HEB being the biggest in Texas). They thrive in places like China Spring but if they pushed forward and then an HEB came along 5 years later, it would be a huge loss for them, financially.
Strategically, I get why HEB did what they did. They were likely looking at the map of Waco at the time (they bought the land not long after they opened in Woodway) and recognized the growth pattern and took advantage, knowing that the 19th street store was not long for this world. Frankly, this was pre-mortgage crisis so they likely thought the CS growth was going to accelerate faster than it has (even though it has grown substantially).
Still, I wish someone would push forward out there. I can't blame anyone for being scared of HEB and, frankly, they should be. But China Spring is a great school district and great area. It has plenty of room to grow but needs more retail. If a decent grocery chain was a certainty in the near future, I think you'd see increased growth which would fuel additional retail, which would fuel growth, etc, and it would really take off.
City of Waco has annexed Preserve and it has city services.Volunteer said:
You raise an interesting point about growth in downtown having a positive effect on China Spring. Areas around the airport are indeed a straight shot to the downtown area and with the improvements to FM1637 the travel should be pretty easy.
Has the Preserve been annexed by Waco? Woodfield is another significant development out that way that might be an annexation candidate.