Wowoowowow

That

Was

Dirty

Someone post the vid

Epic

Never seen him do that

I didn't know Key had that in him.

Mean muggin the KU bench afterwards

Gotta close it out or all for naught

robal said:

---

And what did he do in the 2nd half? Drew ranked him almost immediately. Got to play both halves.

---

Yep. Cool neato highlight

He's a highlight reel but but that's only 2-3 plays a game. Rest of the time he's just an average freshman that probably shouldn't get as many minutes as he does.

Sorry, not a fan. Terrible shot selection, turnovers, horrendous defense, and he was getting bullied on the boards. Shooting % usually < 40. I've been mostly disappointed this year.

Yup. First round pick next year...

It would seem George would benefit greatly from another year at Baylor. Too many holes in his game at present. And the holes are mostly in the decision making aspect of his game.

contrario said:

---

possible12 said:

---

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

It would seem George would benefit greatly from another year at Baylor. Too many holes in his game at present. And the holes are mostly in the decision making aspect of his game.

---

Probably better chance of him learning that stuff while making 3-5 mil.

---

Yeah, it's amazing to me some people don't realize players can grow in the pros too. If anything, they grow quite a bit more because they can focus all of their time and energy on making their game better and don't have to worry about dealing with classes and other things that go along with being in college.

---

I have no idea about KG personally in this regard, but in general I doubt the average one and done worries much about dealing with classes and the other things that go along with being in college beyond doing the minimum to be eligible for one season (which isn't that tough).

I honestly had no idea that players could grow on the pros. I really appreciate this insightful information.

ImABearToo said:

---

He's a highlight reel but but that's only 2-3 plays a game. Rest of the time he's just an average freshman that probably shouldn't get as many minutes as he does.

---

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I did see one disappointing play. In the second half and the game was getting away, he missed a shot, but instead of rushing down the court to get set up on defense, he hung his head and hesitated to get back down the court. The guy is a freshmen. On some plays he looks all world. On others he throws passes as if he is still playing against a high school team. I think out of our 4 four turnovers to start the game, he was the cause of 3 of them. Glad we have him, but wish he was a more mature college player with the same skills.

contrario said:

---

possible12 said:

---

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

It would seem George would benefit greatly from another year at Baylor. Too many holes in his game at present. And the holes are mostly in the decision making aspect of his game.

---

Probably better chance of him learning that stuff while making 3-5 mil.

---

Yeah, it's amazing to me some people don't realize players can grow in the pros too. If anything, they grow quite a bit more because they can focus all of their time and energy on making their game better and don't have to worry about dealing with classes and other things that go along with being in college.

---

Players can and do grow in the pros, but the NBA, like the NFL, is a no-patience league. And that's especially true if the holes in your game drop your draft stock out of the lottery or first round. We saw this with Perry Jones, Quincy Miller and Kendall Brown.

If you don't start your NBA clock ready to compete at that level, you get about three years to get there. If you don't by then, you're getting traded or dumped.

There's a new crop of players that are just as athletic as you coming in every year. Teams aren't going to wait on players to develop when they can just replace them in the next year's draft.

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

We were all spoiled by Sochan, because Sochan was mature beyond his years and had an advanced BBIQ due to his European experience. People need to remember one-and-done players are not all going to be polished products like Sochan, and in fact Sochan was the exception not the rule. Like the vast majority of one-and-done players, Keyonte is far from a finished product, but NBA GMs see he has all the tools be developed into a star at the next level.

---

All the more reason to use those scholarships on guys you can build around IMO.

Sochan was special because he wasn't recruited expecting to be a one-and-done guy. He earned that opportunity with his play. Most of those who come in expecting to stay one year and leave for the pros aren't ready to anchor a championship team, play frustratingly inconsistent basketball and leave without making a significant mark on the program.

I'd rather use those scholarships on multi-year transfers or developmental players who will be ready to contribute to championship teams as juniors and/or seniors.

Guys like Quincy Acy, Cory Jefferson, Jonathan Motley and Taurean Prince made a far greater impact on the Baylor program than Quincy Miller or Kendall Brown did.

Our program is now at a stature where Drew can selectively recruit one-and-done players who fit our culture on and off the court. Sochan, KB, Keyonte, and potential one and dones Ja'Kobe and Miro next year. Drew has always been excellent when it comes to building a roster with 3 and 4 year guys, transfers, development guys, and now integrating the one-and-dones.

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

Our program is now at a stature where Drew can selectively recruit one-and-done players who fit our culture on and off the court. Sochan, KB, Keyonte, and potential one and dones Ja'Kobe and Miro next year. Drew has always been excellent when it comes to building a roster with 3 and 4 year guys, transfers, development guys, and now integrating the one-and-dones.

---

Sochan was not recruited as a one-and-done. He shouldn't be included on your list. He played his way into that opportunity, and deserves nothing but credit for doing so. The others were good, not great players for us and drafted on potential alone.

And fitting our culture is great. I have no issue with any of these guys as human beings or teammates. They all seem like great kids. I just philosophically disagree with building a program around immature players who want to be treated like "the guy" but aren't remotely ready, generally speaking, to perform at that level consistently.

I don't like promising freshman the types of minutes and usage that is required to land these players during the recruiting process. You end up depending on guys to do things they're not ready to do -- and won't be at any point while wearing your uniform.

bear2be2 said:

---

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

Our program is now at a stature where Drew can selectively recruit one-and-done players who fit our culture on and off the court. Sochan, KB, Keyonte, and potential one and dones Ja'Kobe and Miro next year. Drew has always been excellent when it comes to building a roster with 3 and 4 year guys, transfers, development guys, and now integrating the one-and-dones.

---

Sochan was not recruited as a one-and-done. He shouldn't be included on your list. He played his way into that opportunity, and deserves nothing but credit for doing so. The others were good, not great players for us and drafted on potential alone.

And fitting our culture is great. I have no issue with any of these guys as human beings or teammates. They all seem like great kids. I just philosophically disagree with building a program around immature players who want to be treated like "the guy" but aren't remotely ready, generally speaking, to perform at that level consistently.

I don't like promising freshman the types of minutes and usage that is required to land these players during the recruiting process. You end up depending on guys to do things they're not ready to do -- and won't be at any point while wearing your uniform.

---

You can disagree with Drew, this is a message board and you can have an opinion. I guess I just disagree on the premise of your opinion. Drew is able to recruit the kind of kids who fit our culture of JOY. Our one and done players are not entitled or demanding usage or minutes. KB was willing to blend in as a low usage player and filled his role at an excellent level. Sochan didni't even start. Keyonte is a very unselfish player, willing to do the dirty work like taking charges and rebounding. He is better than Bonner so that's why he's in the rotation ahead of Bonner. HIs spot in the rotation has been earned alongside Cryer and Flagler in the backcourt. I am glad he is playing for us, despite his flaws. You are maybe generalizing one-and-done players as being selfish or demanding minutes or usage who play for other programs. None of our guys have been selfish or demanded to be "the guy."

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

Our program is now at a stature where Drew can selectively recruit one-and-done players who fit our culture on and off the court. Sochan, KB, Keyonte, and potential one and dones Ja'Kobe and Miro next year. Drew has always been excellent when it comes to building a roster with 3 and 4 year guys, transfers, development guys, and now integrating the one-and-dones.

---

Sochan was not recruited as a one-and-done. He shouldn't be included on your list. He played his way into that opportunity, and deserves nothing but credit for doing so. The others were good, not great players for us and drafted on potential alone.

And fitting our culture is great. I have no issue with any of these guys as human beings or teammates. They all seem like great kids. I just philosophically disagree with building a program around immature players who want to be treated like "the guy" but aren't remotely ready, generally speaking, to perform at that level consistently.

I don't like promising freshman the types of minutes and usage that is required to land these players during the recruiting process. You end up depending on guys to do things they're not ready to do -- and won't be at any point while wearing your uniform.

---

You can disagree with Drew, this is a message board and you can have an opinion. I guess I just disagree on the premise of your opinion. Drew is able to recruit the kind of kids who fit our culture of JOY. Our one and done players are not entitled or demanding usage or minutes. KB was willing to blend in as a low usage player and filled his role at an excellent level. Sochan didni't even start. Keyonte is a very unselfish player, willing to do the dirty work like taking charges and rebounding. He is better than Bonner so that's why he's in the rotation ahead of Bonner. HIs spot in the rotation has been earned alongside Cryer and Flagler in the backcourt. I am glad he is playing for us, despite his flaws. You are maybe generalizing one-and-done players as being selfish or demanding minutes or usage who play for other programs. None of our guys have been selfish or demanded to be "the guy."

---

It's not a selfishness thing. It's a motivation/priorities thing. One-and-done players are only going to college because a) they're forced to by a stupid NBA rule and b) they trying to showcase their skills for NBA scouts.

If George could have been drafted out of high school, he wouldn't be at Baylor. And similarly, if Scott Drew had told him 'You're going to average 24 minutes, play off the ball and get about eight shots a game," he wouldn't be at Baylor. He'd have gone to one of the schools that would have allowed him to play more, handle the ball more and shoot more.

That doesn't make Keyonte George a bad kid. He's just motivated by different things than a freshman who is committing three-plus years of his life to a program would be. I'd argue the latter is more invested in that program and its success because that could be the pinnacle of his basketball career. He doesn't have a big payday and pro career in his immediate future, so his primary goal will be to maximize his time in college.

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

I honestly had no idea that players could grow on the pros. I really appreciate this insightful information.

---

I'm glad I could be of assistance. You should sign up for my newsletter.

I'm pretty sure our staff was in on Keyonte going back to middle school. Our staff builds relationships when these guys are super young. They know a bit more about player motivations and priorities as opposed to a couple guys posting on a message board.

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

We were all spoiled by Sochan, because Sochan was mature beyond his years and had an advanced BBIQ due to his European experience. People need to remember one-and-done players are not all going to be polished products like Sochan, and in fact Sochan was the exception not the rule. Like the vast majority of one-and-done players, Keyonte is far from a finished product, but NBA GMs see he has all the tools be developed into a star at the next level.

---

Anyone who remembers Sochan also remembers another guy who was supposed to be one and done, but in hindsight should have developed more before going.

I think Drew's strategy is sound.. we just whiffed this year with a combo of guys not panning out and bad breaks.

Last year's team is the first repeat in ages with Cryer, Love, and Jon. This year's team is probably a favorite with Sochan (was a projected 2 year guy) and possible healthy Jon taking advantage of an extra year. It just didn't turn that way. We also have 2 guys on scholarship that cannot play at this level and a transfer that plays hard but doesn't have much to plug our weaknesses. We don't dump guys like that because the program is genuine if the guys do their part they will most likely stay.

We are going to have to deliberately reject talent if we follow through with this supposed 3-4 year plan. There are only 3 teams recruiting consistently above us now. We are the best recruiting team in the new big 12.. yes including KU as of right now. The teams that have to do this type of plan typically don't have quite enough talent to get over the hump. Or its a crap shoot and teams develop while not deliberately trying to downgrade talent (Ku after the recruiting issues had their 22' team filled with longer term guys but not necessarily by choice; it was largely chance).

The sweet spot for college success is sophomores and juniors that have developed to mid to high level nba guys. Mix that in with senior leadership and toughness and you have the perfect formula. Its extremely difficult to plan for this and project it out though as all the best talent is typically gone after their first year.

Villanova did it twice and they had the perfect mix. We did it in 21'. VA in 19'. Other teams with the heavy experience formula have come up short when playing the top tier talents because they just weren't skilled or talented enough to pull it out (Uh, Tech). Duke in 15' doesn't fit this mold exactly but the other way, they won with young talent. No current examples of these seasoned teams that finish the job bc seniors on a team typically means they are not talented enough to make the league. Its just how it is. I think last year and this year are ripe for exceptions due to the extra Covid year that would give the seasoned team model an additional leg up. Would not be a surprise for one of those teams to break through this year.

George with a different roster and a legit downhill pg with top ball handling ability would look a lot different. This isn't an ideal fit but better here than elsewhere. We lose WVU away and Tech away without him. Marquette and VA games don't change even removing some of the early mistakes from the equation. KU game doesn't either. Neither does the Tcu home loss. The roster is beyond flawed defensively right now outside of any one and done issue.

Mitch Henessey said:

---

This thread turning into a *****fest about Keyonte George is both incredibly disappointing and wholly predictable. George is not even top 3 things that are fatal flaws on this roster.

Our basketball fans are so terrible.

---

Yep. We win like 9 out of 10 games in the toughest conference in America, and when we lose a game in the toughest road venue in America against a final 4 caliber team the sky is falling and suddenly Drew doesn't know how to build a roster. It is truly unbelievable.

Porteroso said:

---

Crawfoso1973 said:

---

We were all spoiled by Sochan, because Sochan was mature beyond his years and had an advanced BBIQ due to his European experience. People need to remember one-and-done players are not all going to be polished products like Sochan, and in fact Sochan was the exception not the rule. Like the vast majority of one-and-done players, Keyonte is far from a finished product, but NBA GMs see he has all the tools be developed into a star at the next level.

---

Anyone who remembers Sochan also remembers another guy who was supposed to be one and done, but in hindsight should have developed more before going.

---

HIndsight is always 20/20. KB was projected all along a mid to late 1st round pick until he slid towards the end of conference play. Unfortunately it didn't work out for him. Would love to have his length and defense on the perimeter, would have loved to have MM back for another year instead of Lohner, but that is life.

Jared Butler, Davion Mitchell & MaCio Teague had us spoiled. We got used to elite offense & defense and now we only have it on one side. We can add Mark Vital to that list, Mr 95%, in terms of defense.

We didn't get blown out on the road vs. KU because Scott Drew recruits one-and-done players. After every loss you find a way to circle back to that axe to grind. Those types of games happen when you play in the best conference in America. It's unrealistic to expect us to go undefeated in the big 12 gauntlet.