They both started this year.

chorne68 said:

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I would not be surprised if George comes back.

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I wouldn't, either.

IowaBear said:

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Where did I say I didn't want them on the team ?

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You implied it.

By stating the defense would still be horrendous ? Good grief did you actually watch any of the games? Did you see our defense at all this year?

Crawfoso1973 said:

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They both started this year.

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My point was, they are both shooting guards and they should both play the same position. Only one can start and both would want to. Flagler is not a natural point guard.

IowaBear said:

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By stating the defense would still be horrendous ? Good grief did you actually watch any of the games? Did you see our defense at all this year?

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Go cheer for Iowa or the Cyclones, then.

Bakersdozen said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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They both started this year.

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My point was, they are both shooting guards and they should both play the same position. Only one can start and both would want to. Flagler is not a natural point guard.

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You are about 12 months behind in your analysis. Flag started at PG from day 1.

Yes because me pointing out the obvious (our defense was bad) makes me a horrible fan. Your soft grandpa paper soft. I'd rather change your diapers than root for the hawks

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Bakersdozen said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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They both started this year.

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My point was, they are both shooting guards and they should both play the same position. Only one can start and both would want to. Flagler is not a natural point guard.

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You are about 12 months behind in your analysis. Flag started at PG from day 1.

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This isn't that hard. Flagler was a failure at point guard this year. Baylor has two of the best shooting guards in the nation if Flagler returns. They both need to be playing the 2. I don't think that will happen and one will potentially leave.

Bakersdozen said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Bakersdozen said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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They both started this year.

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My point was, they are both shooting guards and they should both play the same position. Only one can start and both would want to. Flagler is not a natural point guard.

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You are about 12 months behind in your analysis. Flag started at PG from day 1.

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This isn't that hard. Flagler was a failure at point guard this year. Baylor has two of the best shooting guards in the nation if Flagler returns. They both need to be playing the 2. I don't think that will happen and one will potentially leave.

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Failure is a gross exaggeration. With Flagler at point guard this season, we were statistically one of the most efficient offenses in the nation. Did we have some untimely lulls? Sure. But so does every other offense on the planet. And with even decent defense, we win several more games and are preparing for a Sweet 16 appearance right now.

Is Adam Flagler a perfect point guard? Not at all. But we've only had three of those in the Scott Drew era -- Tweety Carter, Pierre Jackson and Davion Mitchell. To call him a failure when offense was the least of this team's problems is a joke.

Bakersdozen said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Bakersdozen said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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They both started this year.

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My point was, they are both shooting guards and they should both play the same position. Only one can start and both would want to. Flagler is not a natural point guard.

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You are about 12 months behind in your analysis. Flag started at PG from day 1.

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This isn't that hard. Flagler was a failure at point guard this year. Baylor has two of the best shooting guards in the nation if Flagler returns. They both need to be playing the 2. I don't think that will happen and one will potentially leave.

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What planet were you on this season? Flagler was competent and did an admirable job playing the point guard position for us this season. The season didn't end the way we all would have wanted it to, but it wasn't due to Flagler failing at the point guard position.

canoso said:

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chorne68 said:

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I would not be surprised if George comes back.

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I wouldn't, either.

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I can't find a mock draft that has him going beyond the 13th pick. No way he stays.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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canoso said:

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chorne68 said:

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I would not be surprised if George comes back.

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I wouldn't, either.

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I can't find a mock draft that has him going beyond the 13th pick. No way he stays.

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NBA Mock Draft has him at 15. The only reason to drop out of the draft, in my opinion, is if the player is at risk of falling out of the first round. Not likely with Keyonte.

IowaBear said:

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Yes because me pointing out the obvious (our defense was bad) makes me a horrible fan. Your soft grandpa paper soft. I'd rather change your diapers than root for the hawks

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I am not interested in your perverse hobbies. You have made clear you will not respect the team.

So go and find one more your speed.

bear2be2 said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

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Agreed. Keyonte seemed more interested in making big plays than actually winning. We did not have the correct personnel this year.

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I don't think Keyonte is selfish. I just think he lacks any sort of situational awareness whatsoever. He consistently took quick, contested jumpers, made ill-advised drives into traffic and forced passes into closed windows ... and always at the worst possible times. He thought he had to be the guy to get us out of ruts, but he didn't have the game to back up that mindset, and just often started runs for the opposition as a result.

Some of that is immaturity. Some of it is being allowed to do way too much by the coaching staff. Any other player would have been benched when they made the same hard-headed mistakes that George consistently did all season.

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No kiddin' ... I mean, how fast did Matt "Shaggy" Mayer get shipped to the bench when he did these exact same things. Took him 3 years to earn CSD's trust (sorta), whereas Drew might've promptly pulled KG maybe three times all season for similar chicanery.

Love Flagler but why take the best shooting guard in the nation and make them a better than average point guard? No one who watched Baylor with any basketball knowledge, other than looking through green glasses, would say he did a great job

We consistently started our offense at mid-court when there was pressure. Neither him or cryer could handle athletic, long pressure with the ball. He was not a good penetrating, had trouble getting to the rim and isn't a great passer inside the lane. Man, is he good but is not a natural point guard.
We need a ball handling, decent shooter, get to the rim, penetrate, lock down defender and passing point guard. Baylor has had success doing this in the past.

I got crushed for talking about players who should come back last year on these threads but I'll just leave this here… George should absolutely return. Anyone with eligibility left should return

Brown felt like a no brainer. Dude was severely limited offensively and it was glaringly obvious his game needed polished. I'll be shocked if he's in the league in 3 years. Love KB but that was a bad decision. Than again passing up $$ is easier said than done

IowaBear said:

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Brown felt like a no brainer. Dude was severely limited offensively and it was glaringly obvious his game needed polished. I'll be shocked if he's in the league in 3 years. Love KB but that was a bad decision. Than again passing up $$ is easier said than done

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It is always easy to sit back and judge after the fact. Hindsight is 20/20. All long KB was expected to go late 1st round, at worst. He made his decision based on the data available to him at the time. Also are you aware he was injured and underwent surgery a few weeks ago? This injury would have affected him this year and probably would have prevented him from being drafted. Ya see? Hmmmm maybe not such a no brainer decision after all.

Injuries happen all the time… not seeing your point. The guy clearly wasn't ready for the league. And most execs, scouts obviously felt the same as he slide big time. Like I said doubt he's playing in the NBA 3 years from now. Hell it may be 2 years from now.

IowaBear said:

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Injuries happen all the time… not seeing your point. The guy clearly wasn't ready for the league. And most execs, scouts obviously felt the same as he slide big time. Like I said doubt he's playing in the NBA 3 years from now. Hell it may be 2 years from now.

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Again, KB was going on the advice given to him at the time. And the fact injuries happen all the time is my exact point. Keyonte George should absolutely take the $ and run since he is a projected 1st rounder. Risk vs. reward. Unless you are coming from generational wealth that is an easy and logical choice.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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IowaBear said:

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Injuries happen all the time… not seeing your point. The guy clearly wasn't ready for the league. And most execs, scouts obviously felt the same as he slide big time. Like I said doubt he's playing in the NBA 3 years from now. Hell it may be 2 years from now.

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Again, KB was going on the advice given to him at the time. And the fact injuries happen all the time is my exact point. Keyonte George should absolutely take the $ and run since he is a projected 1st rounder. Risk vs. reward. Unless you are coming from generational wealth that is an easy and logical choice.

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There are a couple of factors that need to be considered before we can determine whether or not it truly is a no-brainer for George to leave. I think he's leaving regardless, so this is strictly an academic discussion, but if he slides late into first round or into the second (highly unlikely), he would have been much better off staying.

If you're not a lottery pick, NBA teams make no real investment in you. You're in their plans only so long as your performance warrants it. That's a precarious place to be for a guy who struggled to score efficiently against college talent. If it doesn't click for him -- and quickly -- the shine will leave that rose quickly.

I have not seen a single indication that Key will fall to the 2nd round . Returning could potentially improve his draft slot a few slots in the 1st round but probably not worth the risk vs. reward in his decision

double post -- see below

16 Seniors
8 Juniors
13 Sophomore
2 Redshirt Freshmen
1 True Freshman
Top 28 scorers in Elite 8 are Seniors, Juniors or Sophomores

— Matt Schnider (@MattSchnider) March 25, 2023

Interesting things to ponder.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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I have not seen a single indication that Key will fall to the 2nd round . Returning could potentially improve his draft slot a few slots in the 1st round but probably not worth the risk vs. reward in his decision

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I don't think he will. But you didn't see those indications on KB last year either.

But the fact is if you're not a lottery pick, you're not a priority in the NBA. You're as valuable to an organization as your play makes you ... and that will be the only determining factor in how patient your organization will be with you.

I think George will leave and will be taken mid- to late-ish first round. I have no idea what kind of NBA player he'll be after that. But he better improve his efficiency quickly or he won't be long for that league.

It's a data point to support bear2's view. Texas's best team in years is also extremely old and experienced.

Of course physically tougher with added strength and growth. But also mentally stronger. It's no wonder they didn't fall apart when the coaching situation occurred. 23 yr ago olds can handle it and are focused on taking care of their own business.

First thing that caught my eye was that the absence of true freshmen shows how little impact the projected one-and-done's had relative to making a team National Championship worthy in a 1 game tournament elimination phase. Now, before anyone starts foaming at the mouth, I'm not saying 1-and-dones are bad. haha
Just observing what the data reflects.

DanaDane said:

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16 Seniors
8 Juniors
13 Sophomore
2 Redshirt Freshmen
1 True Freshman
Top 28 scorers in Elite 8 are Seniors, Juniors or Sophomores

— Matt Schnider (@MattSchnider) March 25, 2023

Interesting things to ponder.

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Get old, stay old.

All of our best teams have been built this way.

I'm right in between. Portal is playing a big role but I think I think the Covid year is making it even more extreme. We'll see when it settles down.

And yet the three best players for the favorites are Juniors and Sophmores. UConn fits that sweet spot profile even with all the other wildly experienced teams around them.

Me too. And it's not like our staff is suddenly against the get old, stay old model. This past recruiting class we recruited 2 experieniced D 1 transfers, 1 juco redshirt, and only had 1 one and done player. As I type this I'm sure our staff is recruiting a couple portal players. It's not like our coaches are turning our program into a one-and-done factory. We had exactly 1 (one) one-and-done player this year and he wasn't to blame for our team's faults. But that point has been belaboured over and over again on other threads.