It’ll be interesting to see what Baylor has up their sleeve against Michigan St and Duke.

— Michael Stallworth (@Sophisti88) October 9, 2023

I'm not sold on Michigan St. not buying the hype on them. Duke on the other hand is arguably the most talented roster in the country. That'll be a great measuring test for the Bears.

Did Jon really need to lose 20 lbs?! Not a critique...we know this guy's work ethic is incredible.

Man, I cannot wait to see these guys. Love love love that we open with a big game. Not sure we've ever done that.

There will some movement in this list by the time we play Mich St and Duke, but love to see the opportunity to play two top 5 teams in December. Duke has crazy young talent. Interested to see how our older guys perform as well as a freshman to freshman comparison. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/36058691/2023-24-way-too-early-top-25-men-college-basketball-rankings

No doubt, Quinton. I think most of us who post in the basketball forum have played the game at one time or another and know how difficult it is for someone to trust the healing process early on. The video posted by Bucandito made shivers of excitement run down my spine seeing Jonathan leaping so high and trusting the ultimate downard motion. And, I keep hearing glowing remark after glowing remark on Dennis from someone who has seen him multiple times and doesn't sugarcoat anything.

I'm still holding to my position that I'm not 100% buying off until I see some D against Auburn, Michigan St and Duke, but man oh man I think this team has a chance to be really, really, really good.

First of all I am not Bucandito, but that aside, we have had several years in a row of outstanding defensive play until last season which was an anomaly. No reason to be I'll believe it when I see it.

Bucandito is actually a pretty sweet handle

The test for Jon will be his lateral movement. Can he still switch and guard the perimeter like he did in our championship run? That's what made him so elite was his lateral agility for a big, which was completely negated last season when he returned too early.

Speaking of injury rehab, I'm also curious how Love looks another year removed from ACL surgery. His lateral agility was awful last year and he was repeatedly torched defensively. Cryer and Key were historically bad defenders, but Love was just as bad defensively but somewhow escapes criticism for how bad he was. Hopefully with another offseason he will be better or he won't be in the rotation with our added guard depth. Coming back from a serious knee injury like an ACL is as much mental as it is physical.

I guarantee you Love is in the guard rotation, that's just a silly take. He escaped criticism because he was fresh off an ACL tear. The other loafers defensively had no excuse and he did.

With our elite stable of guards, Love is not guaranteed anything. He is not competing with someone like Bonner this year for minutes. If he is not able to move better than he did last year, guys like Grimes and Little will get minutes over him.

We have exactly zero proven P5 guards right now. From a scoring stand point. Dennis hasn't proven he can consistently score and play against the big boys yet (think he will) Walter is as hyped as they come. But I don't give credit until I see it. I avoid hype. I saw Love score and play huge parts in some wins last year … like I said I guarantee you he plays big minutes and is a huge piece this year. Please feel free to revisit this if I'm wrong. And what exactly have Grimes or Little done to prove they're better than him?

I hope you are right and Love is good enough to earn heavy minutes this year. From my observations he was not good last yeatr and this year minutes will have to be earned. We are loaded especially at guard.

Guy averaged over 6 PPG snd shot 36% from 3 fresh off an ACL injury… he was far far down the list of issues last year. We're deep at guard on paper huge difference. Which of these guards have proven themselves at the P5 level ?

Yes, yes there is. There's 1 person left on the roster from 2 years ago - Jonathan, and he's not the same Jonathan he was then (although hopefully will be a lot closer this year with another year to heal). What Teague, Jared Butler and Davion did 3 years ago or what anyone did from 2021 has no bearing on this roster's ability to play defense. So, I'll wait and see what we put out on the floor. You do you.

This… I don't get this sentiment that we've always had this crazy elite D. That was never the case until the Covid shortened year. We had sone solid Defenses prior. But we're never elite defensively until the 19/20 season. Last years team would have struggled to defend YMCA squads

Last year was utterly embarrassing on D. I still have nightmares of what I saw against Marquette and Virginia. Hopefully, some of that will be eliminated in Sioux Falls in a few weeks.

Don't forget KSU lighting us up or TCU… could keep going. Just an utter sieve defensively last year. Must have rubbed off on the football team

I'm hoping Nunn and Grimes perform as well as advertised on D. That will be a tremendous step up if they do.

Yikes! Please don't remind me of those two games, TCU in particular!

Nunn, Grimes, Walter, Missi, and a healthy EJ all represent huge individual upgrades defensively when you consider the guys they will be replacing in the rotation. Dennis is above average defensively and Miro is a wildcard to me I can't speak of his defensive abilities. The upside for this team is huge on both ends of the floor. It will be up to the staff getting them "connected" and playing an effective team defense. 100% confident we won't be a defensive sieve like we were last year, but due to all the new parts and youth it might be conference play before our team gets close to its potential.

TCU had us on skates that whole game. I cannot unsee that nightmare.

Love had a limited skill set offensively (could hit wide open set shots but not much else), and objectively was a very bad defender, probably due to recovery from ACL. Now our backcourt dynamic is much more talented with am experienced juco transfer waiting in the wings, two high level transfers and 2 stud freshmen added to the mix. I'm not hating on Love and I'm rooting for him. Just saying minutes will have to be earned and whoever earns them will have won some practice battles and showed out in preconference games. I can't wait to see how it shakes out by conference time.

I don't think you're hating on Love. Just don't think it's fair to assume all these guards coming in are automatically going to be better than him. The guy was a former 5 star whose first real action at the P5 level was 1 year removed from an ACL tear. Just don't see any reason to believe he won't take a massive step forward. Nor have I seen anything to believe Grimes, Little etc are going to better this year than him. Perhaps Love flops but all indications are he's much improved and he's now 2 years removed from the ACL injury. Mentally I'm sure he's in a much better spot trusting his knee

Oh I agree, I am also hoping Love has regained his mobility and quickness (mental is the final hurdle). And I don't think the new guys will automatically leapfrog Love. They will have to earn it. We have quality depth and talent this year competing for playing time as opposed to guys like Lovelady and Turner who were guaranteed benchwarmers taking up scholarship spots. And if there is another injury (knock on wood) we have the depth to overcome it.

The mental hurdle is always the toughest. Several athletes here at ISU who've suffered significant injuries like that really struggle mentally to trust their bodies. Year 2 is when you typically see athletes really start look like former selves. Obviously there's cases where they never fully recover which I really hope isn't the case. Jon and Love at 100% this season would be huge

Crawfoso1973 said:

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. 100% confident we won't be a defensive sieve like we were last year, but due to all the new parts and youth it might be conference play before our team gets close to its potential.

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Oh yes. Definitely agree the effectiveness will build as more games are played and all the guys know and understand their teammates tendencies. Truth is I'm not expecting incredible D in the early part of the season. I'm looking at the basics -- is the intensity there? is the lateral movement there? are the quick hands and quick legs there? do they rotate of the ball while still defending when needed? are any of the bigs physical under the basket?

They can still have some blunders in the early part of the season, but if I see promise in those areas then I will know we are already eons ahead of what we had last year. Just, please, no loafing like I saw from 3 of them last year.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Love had a limited skill set offensively (could hit wide open set shots but not much else),

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That is way way off base. If you watched him pre-injury, you know that's not the case. Hell, he was the leading scorer for either team with 12 points when he went down in the scrimmage at A&M - and not just by hitting set shots.

Now that he is healthy again, I want to see what he can really do.

Big12Bear said:

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Crawfoso1973 said:

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Love had a limited skill set offensively (could hit wide open set shots but not much else),

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That is way way off base. If you watched him pre-injury, you know that's not the case. Hell, he was the leading scorer for either team with 12 points when he went down in the scrimmage at A&M - and not just by hitting set shots.

Now that he is healthy again, I want to see what he can really do.

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I thought my post was clearly referring to last year. He was not very good last year. If he has recovered and can do more, that would be awesome.

Everyday Jon is always fun to watch. This season he will be someone special.

Craw, he saved the Ku game at home last year. Wasn't great overall but all accounts said he was primed to contribute before the injury.

Jon has alluded that Love is a big time worker. He had an excuse as he couldn't move laterally. Then the freak eye injury too, he's had really bad breaks which can crack any young player's confidence. Hopefully he is back and solid for the team this year.

IowaBear said:

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Don't forget KSU lighting us up or TCU… could keep going. Just an utter sieve defensively last year. Must have rubbed off on the football team

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Tcu and Iowa St were some of the worst high major defensive performances I've ever seen. Worst defensive backcourt in all of P5. Only solid defender on the team last year was Bridges

Yes I remember Love had some nice flashes last year. The main memories I have though were that he was torched defensively due to the lack of lateral mobility. Since he came rotated in behind Key and Cryer we had no way to hide him on that end because all three of them were very poor defenders (to put it nicely). That will not be the case this year with so many defensive-oriented guards in the rotation, including Love himself if he has recovered his mobility. Practice reports seem glowing. Very excited to see how it all comes together as we head toward conference play.