Are we as deep as we think we are?

2,818 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Married A Horn
Married A Horn
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Walter Missi Bridges Dennis Nunn got starter level minutes.

Love and Ojianwuna seem to be in line for 1st 2 off the bench.

And that's it. I feel like we are at 7 capable at the elite National Championship level.

It would be nice if Little or Grimes could be the 8th by conference...but time will tell.

I'm not expecting Jonathan & Lohner to be a huge factor.
CTbruin
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Lohner spellls Bridges
Married A Horn
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CTbruin said:

Lohner spellls Bridges


Which is a huge drop in production.
EvilTroyAndAbed
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Married A Horn said:

CTbruin said:

Lohner spellls Bridges


Which is a huge drop in production.


Nobody who spells someone else keeps up the production. That's why they are where they are.
Married A Horn
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

Married A Horn said:

CTbruin said:

Lohner spellls Bridges


Which is a huge drop in production.


Nobody who spells someone else keeps up the production. That's why they are where they are.


Yes. I understand this. My point is - is it too big of a drop?

I see us with 7 right now that I would be comfortable with on the floor against Kansas or in the Final Four.
DanaDane
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National Championship teams don't have 10 elite level players. They usually have 7, max 8.

What National Championship teams have are role players who fill certain niches because you run into many different styles of play on your way to a championship.

Lohner, Grimes and even Jonathan (some of our fans are suddenly reducing his effectiveness, possibly without understanding last night his minutes were curtailed with spasms) are perfectly fine as role players.

We will need Lohner in games like last night that are physical. Yes, I realize if you glance at his stat line it doesn't jump out at you. What isn't in that stat line is that his physical blockouts on 4 different series down the court led to rebounds by one of our other players. We won't need him against finesse teams too often.

Grimes is going to be an insurance policy at PG as you can guarantee we will run into some games where we get into foul trouble or an injury. He also gives speed and from all reports from the staff, defense. Give him a little time. He's still adjusting to this level of play. He's not a superstar but he has the ability to be much more of a threat to earn quality minutes than historical guys in spot on the bench such as Jordan Turner and Zach Loveday.

The wildcard is Little. Little missed time over the summer and so he's not 100% in sync with this team right now. If you watched closely last night, he had a few really good moves to the basket during his limited time on the court. He's still gotta reduce those TOs, but those are the product of adjusting to the physicality and fast hands at this level. I suspect by midway through conference play he'll be a valuable reserve off the bench.

Remember, two years ago everyone was fawning over Kendall during non-conference and no one was saying anything about Sochan. Sochan started a little slow but then gradually started building until he was one of our best players by end of the year. I don't know if Little will progress that far, but I think his similar record in overseas competition suggest he can develop quickly during the year.
CTbruin
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Married A Horn said:

CTbruin said:

Lohner spellls Bridges


Which is a huge drop in production.
Yes, a drop in offensive production. But not in defense or especially rebounding. We are a better rebounding team with Lohner on the floor.
Crawfoso1973
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Married A Horn said:

CTbruin said:

Lohner spellls Bridges


Which is a huge drop in production.
I think Dana nailed it....Lohner will be a situational rebounding specialist, not a consistent rotation player behind Bridges. I think last night's rotation is pretty set, a 7 man rotation with Lohner and EJ playing time fluctating based on matchups and situational roles. I do agree Miro could potentially be a member of the rotation come conference time. The talent is there he just needs to adjust to the speed and physicality of this level of ball.
alfred08
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Miro has to and WILL be a huge contributor this year
Married A Horn
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Crawfoso1973 said:

Married A Horn said:

CTbruin said:

Lohner spellls Bridges


Which is a huge drop in production.
I think Dana nailed it....Lohner will be a situational rebounding specialist, not a consistent rotation player behind Bridges. I think last night's rotation is pretty set, a 7 man rotation with Lohner and EJ playing time fluctating based on matchups and situational roles. I do agree Miro could potentially be a member of the rotation come conference time. The talent is there he just needs to adjust to the speed and physicality of this level of ball.


This is what I am thinking. Its all I'm saying.
TWD 1974
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Married A Horn said:

Walter Missi Bridges Dennis Nunn got starter level minutes.

Love and Ojianwuna seem to be in line for 1st 2 off the bench.

And that's it. I feel like we are at 7 capable at the elite National Championship level.

It would be nice if Little or Grimes could be the 8th by conference...but time will tell.

I'm not expecting Jonathan & Lohner to be a huge factor.
I was startled to see Walter had 34 minutes. I would expect starters minutes to come down in the next few games at home. Drew has always seemed to go with a short rotation that gets shorter come March. I would be a bit surprised if more than 7 or 8 get meaningful minutes a night. What is interesting about this team is the ability to matchup with the opponent so it may be a different 7 or 8 guys from game to game.
I would also note that the Auburn starters all saw fewer minutes, but which team had the energy in the last 6-7 minutes? Our Bigs were definitely fresher at the end.
TWD 1974
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alfred08 said:

Miro has to and WILL be a huge contributor this year
I tried to watch a few replay games of Sunrise Academy (where Miro played last year). Team of stars (some of whom I'm happy we didn't get), they underachieved dramatically for much of the season. (A couple of his teammates last year will be lottery picks). Miro was instrumental in the run they made in the tournament to upset the no.1 team. In short, he is not the fastest or flashiest...I am unsure how good a defender he will be at this level, but he has loads of basketball IQ, he sees the court, can make a great pass, can score inside and can hit from 3. Once he adjusts to the speed of this level, I expect him to make an impact later in the year.
Quinton
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Jon, Grimes, Lohner, and Little as the potential end of bench is anything but a problem. If those are the "scrubs " you are really good. And I haven't given up on Jon quite yet anyway
JP1037
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DanaDane said:

National Championship teams don't have 10 elite level players. They usually have 7, max 8.

What National Championship teams have are role players who fill certain niches because you run into many different styles of play on your way to a championship.

Lohner, Grimes and even Jonathan (some of our fans are suddenly reducing his effectiveness, possibly without understanding last night his minutes were curtailed with spasms) are perfectly fine as role players.

We will need Lohner in games like last night that are physical. Yes, I realize if you glance at his stat line it doesn't jump out at you. What isn't in that stat line is that his physical blockouts on 4 different series down the court led to rebounds by one of our other players. We won't need him against finesse teams too often.

Lots of good points in your post but 2 stand out.

I was concerned that JTT did not see the court until the end. I am glad at least there is a physical explanation. Missi and Oijanwuna are amazing players with incredible upside but that was a physical game and JTT is my guy in that scenario. We had too many missed cutters in the paint where he helps.

Dudes down on Lohner just don't like his type of player I guess. He is physical, he hustles, he can rebound and score within his role. You just don't want him dribbling much and he is turnover prone with the ball away from the basket. Last year we would go 5-10 minutes without a rebound and Drew puts in Lohner and he grabs one immediately.
IowaBear
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One thing of note, last year we played very few skilled bigs. This year that's not the case. We're going to need guys like Jon and Lohner. I trust those 2 against guys like Dickinson, Filipowski, Disu etc more than I do Yves and Josh O at this point. I still think Jon will end up being a 15 min a guy night assuming he's not a detriment to the team
Crawfoso1973
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Lohner hustles and rebounds, but last year he was a disaster in every other phase of the game. A turnover machine who was lost on defense and inept on offense. The only way he sees a meaningul role in the rotation is if he took huge strides during the offseason.

EJ will have a limited 8-12 minute minute role IMO and won't expand beyond that unless Josh or Missi get into foul trouble (and they are young bigs who frequently WILL get into foul trouble, so EJ will be needed). Those three guys will never play together so there's only 40 possible minutes to split between all 3 of them. EJ is a walking miracle and an inspiration, but he is what he is at this point after the injury devastated his athleticism. Still will help us in spots and I expect some big, clutch moments from him this season.
Married A Horn
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As I said earlier, I did not watch the full game. But was there a point where neither Bridges or Lohner were on the floor? What would be a lineup in that scenario?

Dennis
Nunn
Love
Walter
(One of the 3 bigs)

?

Surely you dont put Josh O at 5 and Missi at 4, right? That seems like a potentail disaster in today's guard driven game.
Crawfoso1973
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Bridges I think will have to play huge minutes this season. I think they will keep Lohner around 5 minutes at most against good teams. Love and Walter have good size for guards and they might play some small ball 4. Bridges is not our best player, but given our roster construction, he might be our most "valuable" player. That's why it was so huge when he announced he's returning.
DanaDane
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IowaBear said:

One thing of note, last year we played very few skilled bigs. This year that's not the case. We're going to need guys like Jon and Lohner. I trust those 2 against guys like Dickinson, Filipowski, Disu etc more than I do Yves and Josh O at this point. I still think Jon will end up being a 15 min a guy night assuming he's not a detriment to the team
Yup. Josh O will get eaten alive by dudes like those 3. He'll be fine against mid-range players but his inability to react quickly on D will see him getting fewer and fewer minutes against any skilled big such as Dickinson and Filipowski, both who would simply eat him alive. Drew has even said as much in interviews.
JP1037
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Crawfoso1973 said:

Lohner hustles and rebounds, but last year he was a disaster in every other phase of the game. A turnover machine who was lost on defense and inept on offense. The only way he sees a meaningul role in the rotation is if he took huge strides during the offseason.

EJ will have a limited 8-12 minute minute role IMO and won't expand beyond that unless Josh or Missi get into foul trouble (and they are young bigs who frequently WILL get into foul trouble, so EJ will be needed). Those three guys will never play together so there's only 40 possible minutes to split between all 3 of them. EJ is a walking miracle and an inspiration, but he is what he is at this point after the injury devastated his athleticism. Still will help us in spots and I expect some big, clutch moments from him this season.
I don't like him enough to argue too much but I just don't agree with you on "lost" and "inept". He is not a "gifted" player but he is a dirty work player. I actually think he was better than most on defense last year (we had some really bad defense players last year). We have plenty of guys who want to shoot and dribble. If we don't put him in situations where he has to create a shot or dribble away from the basket he can play an important role.

I also think Jon can play some minutes PF alongside Missi or Josh if the other team has a match up that allows it but agree that most nights that won't be the case. I assume you believe Jon would be better spelling Bridges than Lohner?


Quinton
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I thought Lohner was serviceable in the game v Auburn. Didn't watch his D too closely but didn't seem lost like many times last year. Banged inside and was physical. Don't think he pulled down too many boards but kept some balls alive. Also had no TOs from what I remember vs a very chaotic Auburn team.

The team this year fits him much more smoothly than last year where we asked for way too many minutes and we had very few reliable ball handlers / facilitators. The ball was in his hands with the clock running down way too many times last year. Think he'll give some nice minutes this year where we don't ask much of him.
DanaDane
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Quinton said:

The team this year fits him much more smoothly than last year where we asked for way too many minutes and we had very few reliable ball handlers / facilitators. The ball was in his hands with the clock running down way too many times last year. Think he'll give some nice minutes this year where we don't ask much of him.

This. It's the key to why the little things he does (hustle, blocking out, etc) will be more effective this year.
WA Jim
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Generally agree with the comments on this thread re: Lohner. Was able to watch both games so far - and to me, he looks much improved from his erratic play last year, albeit on a small sample size.
historian
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TWD 1974 said:

Married A Horn said:

Walter Missi Bridges Dennis Nunn got starter level minutes.

Love and Ojianwuna seem to be in line for 1st 2 off the bench.

And that's it. I feel like we are at 7 capable at the elite National Championship level.

It would be nice if Little or Grimes could be the 8th by conference...but time will tell.

I'm not expecting Jonathan & Lohner to be a huge factor.
I was startled to see Walter had 34 minutes. I would expect starters minutes to come down in the next few games at home. Drew has always seemed to go with a short rotation that gets shorter come March. I would be a bit surprised if more than 7 or 8 get meaningful minutes a night. What is interesting about this team is the ability to matchup with the opponent so it may be a different 7 or 8 guys from game to game.
I would also note that the Auburn starters all saw fewer minutes, but which team had the energy in the last 6-7 minutes? Our Bigs were definitely fresher at the end.

It seems to me Ja'Kobe had 34 minutes because he had the hot hands. If someone is scoring 28 points in their first game as a Baylor Bear, you get him out there as much as possible, especially in a tight game in which we were behind for so long.
historian
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Does anyone think Lohner is playing somewhat of a Mark Vital role? If he ever becomes as skilled as Mark at all the dirty work the team will benefit.
Crawfoso1973
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I think that's what everyone hoped for and envisioned for Lohner. But he just has such a low basketball IQ. No instincts or feel for the game either offensively or defensively. I'm not bashing him as a person because everything I've seen suggests he's a great team guy and every locker room needs that. But anything beyond playing him in a limited niche role as a rebuilding specialist will expose his other flaws.
CTbruin
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Could not disagree more.

And I'm guessing I know as much about the game as you do. Probably more. And you certainly don't know more than our coach.
Crawfoso1973
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CTbruin said:

Could not disagree more.

And I'm guessing I know as much about the game as you do. Probably more. And you certainly don't know more than our coach.
It's a message board so we can all amicably disgree. If our coach decides to play him heavy rotation minutes, then I will be glad to admit I was wrong.
Married A Horn
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CTbruin said:

Could not disagree more.

And I'm guessing I know as much about the game as you do. Probably more. And you certainly don't know more than our coach.


Thee University...is that you?
CTbruin
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We all have opinions. But I am certainly against degrading comments about our players on a public message board.
IowaBear
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Nah CT is more classy than Thee. Thee would instantly start using profanity and name calling
Married A Horn
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IowaBear said:

Nah CT is more classy than Thee. Thee would instantly start using profanity and name calling


True.
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