A set of working eyes is all you need to know the D isn't good.
Much St has struggled all year and they straight torched us.

Fre3dombear said:

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Things change super quick. But defensively this team was never as good as some thought

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Who thought it was good? It has the potential to be okay to solid.. isn't right now. Losing confidence in the defensive coaching.

Just one example, Nunn who was a solid defender looks pretty bad on D right now. Something with the defensive growth is lacking right now. Too many bad trends.

The young bigs need work but the guards can't get blown by over and over. The offense should be fine. Dennis and Nunn need to work ball security and concentration . Walter was hesitant. It happens. But the lack of intensity and defensive discipline are concerning

Duke game is huge now. Need a good performance

Our perimeter D has to get better but the good news is, unlike last year, it has the potential to improve. Dennis is usually adequate but he was bad today. Nunn and Walter are good defenders but I noticed the past few games they are playing guys too close on the ball, which easily allows opposing guards to maneuver around them pretty easily. Today Love was exposed for how bad he still is defensively. When his shot isn't falling like today he is a big liability because he literally contributes nothing else.

Fre3dombear said:

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Things change super quick. But defensively this team was never as good as some thought

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This team has been in the 45-50 range defensively most of the season. That's likely where we'll finish. Today was a really bad day on both ends, but we're not nearly as bad as we looked.

We're #73 after today, which is what I think is a fairly accurate representation of what we are -- and, where we'll like be (in the 60-80 range) for most of the rest of the season. That is still better than the #107 we finished last year.

We've basically played the following P6 Offensive Rankings:

Auburn (17)
Florida (34)
Michigan St (57)
Seton Hall (91)
Oregon St (252)

Duke will be the first Top 10 efficient offense we've faced, so we should have a much better idea of what we are defensively after that game.

The caveat to all this is that we've just now reached the point where KenPom, Torvik and whatever the other guy (can't remember his name) statistics start trending to true statistical validations given sample size.

Quinton said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Things change super quick. But defensively this team was never as good as some thought

---

Who thought it was good? It has the potential to be okay to solid.. isn't right now. Losing confidence in the defensive coaching.

Just one example, Nunn who was a solid defender looks pretty bad on D right now. Something with the defensive growth is lacking right now. Too many bad trends.

The young bigs need work but the guards can't get blown by over and over. The offense should be fine. Dennis and Nunn need to work ball security and concentration . Walter was hesitant. It happens. But the lack of intensity and defensive discipline are concerning

Duke game is huge now. Need a good performance

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I don't know who but seen posts on here about how much better it is and similar to the natty team etc. All kinds of hyperbole. Can it be and is it better defensively than last year yeah but some on here seem to think it could approach 2020-2021 level

Quinton said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

Things change super quick. But defensively this team was never as good as some thought

---

Who thought it was good? It has the potential to be okay to solid.. isn't right now. Losing confidence in the defensive coaching.

Just one example, Nunn who was a solid defender looks pretty bad on D right now. Something with the defensive growth is lacking right now. Too many bad trends.

The young bigs need work but the guards can't get blown by over and over. The offense should be fine. Dennis and Nunn need to work ball security and concentration . Walter was hesitant. It happens. But the lack of intensity and defensive discipline are concerning

Duke game is huge now. Need a good performance

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Yeah the blow bys to Get to the paint at will are gonna be killer if we don't get it fixed or have the speed to stop it

Really miss a Maston or Gillespie

EvanMiya?

https://evanmiya.com/

Yes! Thank you.

Fre3dombear said:

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Quinton said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Things change super quick. But defensively this team was never as good as some thought

---

Who thought it was good? It has the potential to be okay to solid.. isn't right now. Losing confidence in the defensive coaching.

Just one example, Nunn who was a solid defender looks pretty bad on D right now. Something with the defensive growth is lacking right now. Too many bad trends.

The young bigs need work but the guards can't get blown by over and over. The offense should be fine. Dennis and Nunn need to work ball security and concentration . Walter was hesitant. It happens. But the lack of intensity and defensive discipline are concerning

Duke game is huge now. Need a good performance

---

I don't know who but seen posts on here about how much better it is and similar to the natty team etc. All kinds of hyperbole. Can it be and is it better defensively than last year yeah but some on here seem to think it could approach 2020-2021 level

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Comparisons to 2021 are always going to be ridiculous. That was a very special team that we will probably never replicate. This doesn't mean we cannot have a good team make a deep run in the tournament. Will this team do it? Who knows? We will have a better idea after the Duke game.

He recently graduated from Baylor with a Ph.D. in statistics. It's great to see another Baylor success story.

We will see how mentally tough we are on Wednesday v Duke.

Do we let Mich State beat us twice? Or do we sack up and get ready for the biggest stage yet?

Who will be the leader on this team?

This.

@BearBuck claims it's ok guys. They were studying for and taking finals.

Discuss......

Oh wow. Didn't know he is a Baylor guy. Cool! Thanks for the background.

I think we have a good team and that will grow and should be sweet 16 or maybe even Elite 8. However, this team suffers like several other Baylor teams lately - lack of defensive intensity, no real physical stopper inside and against good, physical teams we start our offense at mid-court away from pressure.

I will set aside the MState game as we were coming off a break but the Duke game is big for our guys. Let's see how we respond.

It seems that so many of us, like in football, have higher expectations for our football and basketball teams than is reality, as of late.

Bakersdozen said:

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I think we have a good team and that will grow and should be sweet 16 or maybe even Elite 8. However, this team suffers like several other Baylor teams lately - lack of defensive intensity, no real physical stopper inside and against good, physical teams we start our offense at mid-court away from pressure.

I will set aside the MState game as we were coming off a break but the Duke game is big for our guys. Let's see how we respond.

It seems that so many of us, like in football, have higher expectations for our football and basketball teams than is reality, as of late.

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What higher expectations than is reality? You yourself think this team has elite 8 potential. I think that anything beyond sweet 16 would be an incredible season and as fans we should be grateful for the quality product CSD puts out there year after year.

Speaking of football, I think many of our fans are still suffering PTSD and from an inferiority complex based on the football program and are projecting their negative emotions and frustrations onto the basketball team.

Who's projecting negative emotions from football onto the basketball team? You keep saying this. Are we not allowed to be critical of the play. I was there yesterday and believe me when I tell you this. The team that played yesterday did in fact lack toughness. That showing will get them curb stomped in conference play. Call it whatever you wish but that was pathetic

DanaDane said:

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Oh wow. Didn't know he is a Baylor guy. Cool! Thanks for the background.

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I recently listened to an interview, I think on the ODB podcast. That's how I know some of this stuff.

IowaBear said:

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Who's projecting negative emotions from football onto the basketball team? You keep saying this. Are we not allowed to be critical of the play. I was there yesterday and believe me when I tell you this. The team that played yesterday did in fact lack toughness. That showing will get them curb stomped in conference play. Call it whatever you wish but that was pathetic

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Yep I agree it was a pathetic showing, but it was a one game sample size. Variance happens in college basketball during a long season.

The one game sample size excuse was used last year after VA clocked us. It may be just 1 game but it exposed a lot of this teams weaknesses. People can throw whatever stat out they want but this team is just plain bad defensively again. We have zero leaders at this point. And as we saw if the 3's aren't falling we're still vulnerable.
Maybe we bounce back at beat Duke but it's rather alarming that we just got our asses kicked by a sub .500 MSU.

MSU was top 4 preseason most places I saw. They have talent. It just took them a minute to gel, like a lot of teams. It was Murphy's Law and everything happened to finally click for them against us. It happens. We had our asses handed to us, as Scott Drew said, they were the hammer we were the nail. On to the next one.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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Bakersdozen said:

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I think we have a good team and that will grow and should be sweet 16 or maybe even Elite 8. However, this team suffers like several other Baylor teams lately - lack of defensive intensity, no real physical stopper inside and against good, physical teams we start our offense at mid-court away from pressure.

I will set aside the MState game as we were coming off a break but the Duke game is big for our guys. Let's see how we respond.

It seems that so many of us, like in football, have higher expectations for our football and basketball teams than is reality, as of late.

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What higher expectations than is reality? You yourself think this team has elite 8 potential. I think that anything beyond sweet 16 would be an incredible season and as fans we should be grateful for the quality product CSD puts out there year after year.

Speaking of football, I think many of our fans are still suffering PTSD and from an inferiority complex based on the football program and are projecting their negative emotions and frustrations onto the basketball team.

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There some suggesting this team is a final 4 or national championship team. I am not one of them today but we are talented. We could shore up these issues but I am not optimistic as some of these are coaching trends over the last couple of years. We are committed to the freshman starters and more interested in offense than defense. Love Drew so don't go there. Just saying it as I see it.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the defense and toughness disappeared when Tang left. We're not a F4 or title contender right now. The Purdues, AZ, Kentucky, UConn's would beat us like MSU as things stand currently. Gotta play some resemblance of defense and we don't

I think I know what happened in that last game. It's the same thing that happened to the Cowboys vs. the Bills yesterday too, btw. You know that old trick where you tell someone to lift a weight above their head as quickly as they can, and then make it progressively heavier - but then you put a fake weight there that is as light as paper? You then watch that person throw that weight up through the ceiling, fully expecting it was going to be really heavy. Well, I think we saw the sports version of that. Michigan State had such high expectations for themselves, and they felt they'd let everyone down up until that point. What better opportunity for redemption than a national tv game against a #6 team, that offensive juggernaut that is Baylor? They had their preparation, focus, and intensity dialed up to 11 for that one, expecting that Baylor was going to be a heavy weight. But Baylor wasn't anywhere near as heavy as everyone made us out to be. So what does it look like to be thrown through the ceiling? 45-17 at halftime. Just like that. But unlike the trick, it isn't very funny.

TWD 1974 said:

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How the rest of the year turns out will depend on how this team answers the defensive pressure that everyone will try to replicate against us.

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Excellent point, TWD. We're almost 1/3rd through the regular season. The D may improve some over the course of the season but it's not suddenly going to become a lockdown D by any stretch of the imagination. The handling of pressure by the offense will likely determine more of our games.

Michigan St is #9 in Defensive efficiency. The only other Top 50 D we've faced was Auburn (#16).

Otherwise, here are the Defenses we've faced:

Florida (#53)
Gardner-Webb (#117)
Seton Hall (#125)
Oregon St (#136)
Nicholls St (#238)
UMKC (#289)
NW State (#359)
John Brown (NAIA school)

Maybe it was the shock of playing against a Top 10 D for the first time, and that shock factor will hopefully be worn off going forward. It was obvious the ball movement was nowhere close to what it was in any of the prior contests. Just one game though, so Wednesday night game with Duke should be very revealing on how we bounce back. I suspect it will be a very close game, whether we win or lose.

TWD 1974 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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I think I know what happened in that last game. It's the same thing that happened to the Cowboys vs. the Bills yesterday too, btw. You know that old trick where you tell someone to lift a weight above their head as quickly as they can, and then make it progressively heavier - but then you put a fake weight there that is as light as paper? You then watch that person throw that weight up through the ceiling, fully expecting it was going to be really heavy. Well, I think we saw the sports version of that. Michigan State had such high expectations for themselves, and they felt they'd let everyone down up until that point. What better opportunity for redemption than a national tv game against a #6 team, that offensive juggernaut that is Baylor? They had their preparation, focus, and intensity dialed up to 11 for that one, expecting that Baylor was going to be a heavy weight. But Baylor wasn't anywhere near as heavy as everyone made us out to be. So what does it look like to be thrown through the ceiling? 45-17 at halftime. Just like that. But unlike the trick, it isn't very funny.

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Saturday's game reminded me of the 2016-17 season. If you remember, we had a great start to the year, upset Michigan State in the holiday tournament, got to 15--0 and were voted No. 1 in the nation for the first time ever. Next day, we head to West Virginia to face a very good defensive team that had struggled offensively. Similar outcome, WVU beat up our guards and couldn't miss a shot... and an even bigger blowout than Saturday.
That team endured the embarrassment and moved on. Were they ever the best team in the country? Not a chance. We had a good season, lost in the sweet sixteen to a tough South Carolina team.

This year, we are a good offensive team that met a better defensive team. While our defense should improve, it is just as important that we learn the offensive lessons. It is pointless to look at this team and wail "where is Vitals, Davion!" We do not have that kind of physicality on the roster. How the rest of the year turns out will depend on how this team answers the defensive pressure that everyone will try to replicate against us.

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That game vs. West Virginia in 2017 wasn't even close to the blowout that this one was. WV was up 39-32 at halftime....

.....45 - 17.

And WV was ranked #10 then. MSU was unranked. It was so bad that Tom Izzo was able to play his 40-year old son during mop up time.

Auburn is an extremely aggressive and athletic team. Which is why I was so surprised by this and I could possibly buy into the finals/game gap theory. Other than Ray J turning it over, they adapted to Auburn fairly well. But it was the opener and they were clearly ready to play.

Makes Duke game very interesting to me.