Was interested in seeing if there is any significant deviation in a few basic statistical categories for any of the 5 starters when comparing individual performance in games against P4 or tournament level teams vs low mid majors or D2.

The categories were divided as follows: P4/Tournament (Gonzaga, Arkansas, St Johns, Tennessee, UConn, Utah, Iowa St). Others (Sam, Tarleton, New Orleans, ACU, Norfolk, Arlington Baptist)

Jeremy Roach*
P4/Tourn: FG: 32-74 (43.2%), 3 pt: 12-30 (40.0%), Scoring: 12.8 ppg* (only played 1 half vs UConn)
Others: FG: 21-47 (44.7%), 3 pt: 8-22 (36.4%), Scoring: 12.7 ppg* (missed Norfolk & Arl Baptist games)

VJ Edgecombe (missed UConn game)
P4/Tourn: FG: 24-73 (32.8%), 3 pt: 8-28 (28.5%), Scoring: 11.3 ppg
Others: FG: 26-52 (50.0%), 3 pt: 6-21 (28.5%), Scoring: 12.0 ppg

Jayden Nunn
P4/Tourn: FG: 20-62 (32.2%), 3 pt: 11-33 (33.3%), Scoring: 7.7 ppg
Others: FG: 30-57 (52.5%), 3 pt: 24-39 (61.5%), Scoring: 12.6 ppg

Norchad Omier (added rebounds to Norchad and Josh since they are our primary guys there)
P4/Tourn: FG: 42-78 (53.8%), 3 pt: 3-19 (15.8%), Scoring: 16.3 ppg; Rebounds: 10.3 per game
Others: FG: 37-56 (66.1%), 3 pt: 2-5 (40.0%), Scoring: 14.7 ppg; Rebounds: 11.5 per game

Josh Ojianwuna
P4/Tourn: FG: 15-18 (83.3%), 3 pt: 0-1 (0.0%), Scoring: 5.7 ppg; Rebounds: 6.7 per game
Others: FG: 21-28 (75.0%), 3 pt: 0-0 (0.0%), Scoring: 10.3 ppg; Rebounds: 6.5 per game

Why is ormier taking more than one 3 per game ? Is that part of his game that I did t know about?

Fre3dombear said:

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Why is ormier taking more than one 3 per game ? Is that part of his game that I did t know about?

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I appreciate Omier's talent and versatility, but I really would like to see him just stop taking 3 point attempts - and I pretty much feel the same way about Edgecombe. There is a reason opponents are consistently leaving both of them open from beyond the arc.

Let's remove any "other" team stats from the reporting/analysis. This is not a good shooting team from beyond or inside the arc. We just aren't. We do not have "that guy" who can take over the game and force teams to double team.....We lack the guard who can physically take the ball to the hole (like Butler). Maybe we get a 6-8 seed in the tournament but Drew & Co will have to get some major items addressed if we have any chance of making it out opening weekend for March Madness.

I want them to do it

Sadly I have not been keeping up with our Bears this year. I hope to start paying a bit more attention if life allows. But for those of you that have been paying attention, are we any good this year? The little I've seen show that I shouldn't get my hopes up. Are we a top 25 team, a top 10 team?

I'm sure one of the selling points for Norchad to come here was the ability to showcase his shot. The reason he is shooting more threes is he wants to show scouts that he can play the 3. He is way too short to play the 4-5 in the NBA. He is going to have to prove he can hit outside shots to have any chance at getting drafted. It's not looking promising thus far. He does have fairly good form and rotation, but he has a slow release and doubt he can do it off the dribble…at least I have not seen it. That is one of the hardest skills to learn in basketball. Going to be hard to get proficient in one year.

Yesterday was an outlier as far as Omier shooting 3s. He is not coming to Baylor jacking up threes to impress NBA scouts. He attempted 7 yesterday but has only 17 attempts in all his other games combined this season. My guess is he took that many threes because Celestine was out. Celestine plays the stretch 4 in our offense, and we struggled with spacing with Omier and Josh O on the floor together at the same time for long stretches yesterday.

Johnny Bear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Why is ormier taking more than one 3 per game ? Is that part of his game that I did t know about?

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I appreciate Omier's talent and versatility, but I really would like to see him just stop taking 3 point attempts - and I pretty much feel the same way about Edgecombe. There is a reason opponents are consistently leaving both of them open from beyond the arc.

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Agree. Remember Mark Vital would do it about once a game. It was kinda like "worked my ass off in the paint, so I've earned this"

PaperBear89 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Why is ormier taking more than one 3 per game ? Is that part of his game that I did t know about?

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I appreciate Omier's talent and versatility, but I really would like to see him just stop taking 3 point attempts - and I pretty much feel the same way about Edgecombe. There is a reason opponents are consistently leaving both of them open from beyond the arc.

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Agree. Remember Mark Vital would do it about once a game. It was kinda like "worked my ass off in the paint, so I've earned this"

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I wouldn't mind Omier doing it once a game. But there's never any good reason for him to be shooting seven 3s in a game. That's just bad offense.

He needs to get his ass back under the basket and go back to work on the block, where he's capable of dominating games.

Unfortunately for him, his skill set isn't a desirable one in the modern NBA game. It sucks because I love back-to-the-basket post play, and he's really good at it. But there's no place in the current NBA for a player like him.

He can either accept that and be an elite college player and go play overseas. Or he can try to become something he's not, be a worse college player ... and then go play overseas. He's not going to shoot his way into the NBA.

Only reason I said he is trying to impress on scouts that he has that in his repertoire is that every broadcast I have watched they talk about him spending a lot of time practicing his 3 point shot. I'm not at practice so can't say I know. But he certainly has the green light to shoot from there. It's not like Scott pulled him after the 2nd or 3rd attempt. I highly doubt he is getting drafted, which just speaks to the NBA and where the league is at. Frankly it's why I don't like the NBA for the most part. I grew up a Spurs fan and loved the way they played for the big three stretch. Ball movement is not a skill that is evident in today's game. Some teams are really good it, Iowa State showcased that multiple sets on Saturday. When the ball moves around the perimeter good things happen, but it takes a lot of coordination. One year in a system is not enough to do it well IMO. That's why it's going to be tough for our guys until we get further into the year. If everyone is healthy we have a sweet 16 type team. Maybe elite 8. In the interim, we will have games where Norchad jacks up some bad shots because our ball movement is not mature enough.

I agree with you and I know he for sure needs to work on his 3 to get a shot at the next level. I think he can accomplish both, use his 3 point attempts sparingly and play to his strengths while still preparing for a shot at the next level. I can live with 1-2 attempts per game within the flow of the offense. Hopefully we don't see upwards of 5-7 attempts again because it wouldn't bode well for us winning many games.

bear2be2 said:

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PaperBear89 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Why is ormier taking more than one 3 per game ? Is that part of his game that I did t know about?

---

I appreciate Omier's talent and versatility, but I really would like to see him just stop taking 3 point attempts - and I pretty much feel the same way about Edgecombe. There is a reason opponents are consistently leaving both of them open from beyond the arc.

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Agree. Remember Mark Vital would do it about once a game. It was kinda like "worked my ass off in the paint, so I've earned this"

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I wouldn't mind Omier doing it once a game. But there's never any good reason for him to be shooting seven 3s in a game. That's just bad offense.

He needs to get his ass back under the basket and go back to work on the block, where he's capable of dominating games.

Unfortunately for him, his skill set isn't a desirable one in the modern NBA game. It sucks because I love back-to-the-basket post play, and he's really good at it. But there's no place in the current NBA for a player like him.

He can either accept that and be an elite college player and go play overseas. Or he can try to become something he's not, be a worse college player ... and then go play overseas. He's not going to shoot his way into the NBA.

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Omier would need to turn himself into a PJ Tucker type of 3-and-D player to have a shot at the NBA. I remember when PJ was in college at UT, he dominated as an inside player but couldn't sniff the NBA until he went overseas to work on his corner 3 and reinvent himself as a 3 and D guy. He then enjoyed a long and extremely successful career. Omier would have to make a similar transformation. He is too much of a tweener.... too small to dominate inside, and too limited from the perimeter to find a niche in today's NBA.

Crawfoso1973 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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PaperBear89 said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Why is ormier taking more than one 3 per game ? Is that part of his game that I did t know about?

---

I appreciate Omier's talent and versatility, but I really would like to see him just stop taking 3 point attempts - and I pretty much feel the same way about Edgecombe. There is a reason opponents are consistently leaving both of them open from beyond the arc.

---

Agree. Remember Mark Vital would do it about once a game. It was kinda like "worked my ass off in the paint, so I've earned this"

---

I wouldn't mind Omier doing it once a game. But there's never any good reason for him to be shooting seven 3s in a game. That's just bad offense.

He needs to get his ass back under the basket and go back to work on the block, where he's capable of dominating games.

Unfortunately for him, his skill set isn't a desirable one in the modern NBA game. It sucks because I love back-to-the-basket post play, and he's really good at it. But there's no place in the current NBA for a player like him.

He can either accept that and be an elite college player and go play overseas. Or he can try to become something he's not, be a worse college player ... and then go play overseas. He's not going to shoot his way into the NBA.

---

Omier would need to turn himself into a PJ Tucker type of 3-and-D player to have a shot at the NBA. I remember when PJ was in college at UT, he dominated as an inside player but couldn't sniff the NBA until he went overseas to work on his corner 3 and reinvent himself as a 3 and D guy. He then enjoyed a long and extremely successful career. Omier would have to make a similar transformation. He is too much of a tweener.... too small to dominate inside, and too limited from the perimeter to find a niche in today's NBA.

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I just hate that the modern NBA game only has a market for preying mantis bigs who chuck 3s or defensive rim runners that excel in the pick-and-roll and transition.

There is no place whatsoever for a traditional back-to-the-basket post, which is IMO an indictment on the modern game. Due to load management and the utter lack of defense, the NBA is unwatchable until the playoffs. And even then, it's typically one ball-dominant guard dribbling and either waiting for a pick and roll or passing to one of the four guys just standing stationary on the 3-point line.

The skill level is impressive, but it's a terrible game to watch.

I agree with this 100. I was talking about this with another buddy whose dad was a precessional coach. We both watch a lot of basketball but not the NBA. I don't know many guys like me in their 40s that watch it anymore.

TXBEAR_bf said:

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I agree with this 100. I was talking about this with another buddy whose dad was a precessional coach. We both watch a lot of basketball but not the NBA. I don't know many guys like me in their 40s that watch it anymore.

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I'll watch the playoffs. Once you add some urgency and defensive intensity to the mix, the game improves. But I can't watch more than a few minutes here and there in the regular season. It's an abomination. It's almost gotten as bad as the G League in terms of defensive effort and intensity. And I just don't care enough for the modern four- and five-out style to put up with all of the negatives.

There is no professional or high major college sport that has a greater gap in product quality between its regular season and the postseason than the NBA. And if TV ratings are a judge, it's becoming a problem for the league.

I am not a big NBA fan either. I do like gambling / fantasy, but even that is not enjoyable due to all the guys sitting out games for no reason.

You gamble on the NBA?? That's the one sport I hate betting on. Rarely touch the NBA or really even the NFL.

very rarely. Mostly mlb and nfl

CFB, CBB and Tennis for me.