IvanBear said:

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Quinton said:

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Bu's Nil is almost certainly higher than Iowa st and Houston. Outside of Ku and K state, pretty sure they spent the most in conference. It is not the primary issue.

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BYU apparently number one now, but that's what happens when you have cult money.

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Oh no doubt. BYU is probably number one in the country right now.

As I said I think we have very good NIL. In previous posts I have said I think CSD has made some roster construction mistakes. These have been compounded by bad luck with injuries and dudes leaving earlier than expected. It's a tough landscape at the moment and I feel like CSD is catching more flack than deserved. Let's see how the roster and coaching staff shakes out. Still a chance we add a couple small or mid major transfers with multiple years.

Houston is the exception and not the rule. It's impressive and not something you just emulate overnight.

he still hasn't taken down pg1 baylor basketball

TJ O did a great keeping a cohesive unit together but that's becoming the exception and not the rule. Plus they have like 6 dudes in the portal as of today.

5. Two of which are never going to play at iSU. 2 others who will play sparingly. And 1 contributed. Every program is going to have transfers. That's just unavoidable.
They're returning 3 starters. That should be the long term goal. Some level of retention

IvanBear said:

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Quinton said:

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Bu's Nil is almost certainly higher than Iowa st and Houston. Outside of Ku and K state, pretty sure they spent the most in conference. It is not the primary issue.

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BYU apparently number one now, but that's what happens when you have cult money.

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BYU and Tech look like they're shooting to compete at the top of the league in NIL payouts. Tech's oil money is proving to be a boon in both major sports.

Quinton said:

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I'm definitely not higher on Cda than Csd, I don't want to compare directly. Csd is a much higher level coach with way more success so far but my point is Cda had to pivot and he did.

I don't think Drew is a fool at all. I think he's been "played for a fool" by some of his players. Taking advantage of his positive nature. Time to regroup and hopefully bring in a harder defensive assistant that commands respect and resonates with the players.

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I've been very critical of Dave Aranda over the past several years, but the one thing he has done exceptionally well is create a culture that actually contributes to acquiring and retaining talent -- and hopefully ultimately competing for championships and playoff berths.

JOY is great for the everlasting souls of the individuals in our program, but it is accomplishing next to nothing these days to help cultivate and sustain a championship level basketball program.

That has to be the priority in our basketball program. And the way that's done in modern college basketball is to develop a returning core every year that you can supplement through the transfer portal. That core can be built through the portal, but it has to be done with multi-year guys.

This one-year revolving door at every key position virtually guarantees that we'll field flawed, disjointed teams each and every season. And that's not how you win at a high level.

Don't you think BYU and Tech are going to be an interesting study. 18 to 23 year olds are not typically known to have the highest level of maturity, and that is particularly magnified when they have agitators in their ears telling them things aren't fair.

So you have (just as examples) Dybantsa at $4 million and Rob at $3.5 million. You've gotta believe Saunders is somewhere in that range too or otherwise he would be walking into the portal and probably re-joining Pope at Kentucky. BYU has a lot of money, but as much money as they have they ain't paying everyone $3 million and above. The average price for most guys is in the $50 thousand to $150 thousand range, which is obviously still a lot of money for a kid that age.

But, suddenly, let's say we're now in late December or early January and some kid who's only getting $50 thousand is having a great year and any of the big money boys is having an off year. With all the handlers and voices around the $50 thousand kid, he's hearing and remembering that he has to run the same number of laps as the kid getting $4 million. He has to practice the same number of hours. He has to do everything the kid is who is making 80x what he's making. Seems like all of this is ripe with the potential for team dissension and turmoil. It will be interesting to see how these kinds of situations play out.

boykin_spaniel said:

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As I said I think we have very good NIL. In previous posts I have said I think CSD has made some roster construction mistakes. These have been compounded by bad luck with injuries and dudes leaving earlier than expected. It's a tough landscape at the moment and I feel like CSD is catching more flack than deserved. Let's see how the roster and coaching staff shakes out. Still a chance we add a couple small or mid major transfers with multiple years.

Houston is the exception and not the rule. It's impressive and not something you just emulate overnight.

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How much flak does Scott Drew deserve in your opinion?

He took a program that was competing at a championship level from 2020-22 on a near linear path to the bubble in less than five years. And with literally zero returners from the deeply flawed, terminally mediocre team we just fielded, there's almost no reason to think next season will be substantially better.

I love Scott Drew and appreciate everything he's done for our program. Genuinely.

But when it comes to recruiting, he has always been attracted to shiny objects. That attraction has been the downfall of our program since the title run.

I can't absolve Drew of all blame for our current stagnation when it was the choices he made in his recruiting strategy and roster construction that have led us down the path we're on. He had a championship formula and completely abandoned it in favor of our current star-chasing/showcase program model -- to the detriment of our program.

Until he makes that realization and course corrects, we'll be stuck on this treadmill in perpetuity. And given that we voluntarily jumped off the Autobahn to spin our tires in place, I think a fair amount of frustration and criticism is warranted.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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Don't you think BYU and Tech are going to be an interesting study. 18 to 23 year olds are not typically known to have the highest level of maturity, and that is particularly magnified when they have agitators in their ears telling them things aren't fair.

So you have (just as examples) Dybantsa at $4 million and Rob at $3.5 million. You've gotta believe Saunders is somewhere in that range too or otherwise he would be walking into the portal and probably re-joining Pope at Kentucky. BYU has a lot of money, but as much money as they have they ain't paying everyone $3 million and above. The average price for most guys is in the $50 thousand to $150 thousand range, which is obviously still a lot of money for a kid that age.

But, suddenly, let's say we're now in late December or early January and some kid who's only getting $50 thousand is having a great year and any of the big money boys is having an off year. With all the handlers and voices around the $50 thousand kid, he's hearing and remembering that he has to run the same number of laps as the kid getting $4 million. He has to practice the same number of hours. He has to do everything the kid is who is making 80x what he's making. Seems like all of this is ripe with the potential for team dissension and turmoil. It will be interesting to see how these kinds of situations play out.

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I think Tech is in a much more sound position long term than BYU because I think McCasland is a championship caliber coach with formula that has proven to win at high level at all levels of college basketball.

I'm not as sold on Kevin Young, whose BYU teams look a lot like Mark Pope's did -- skilled offensively and fun to watch but neither tough enough or good enough defensively to compete at a championship level.

I think infusing a bunch of money can elevate Tech to a whole new strata. I don't see much changing for BYU until they commit to playing defense at a much higher level.

No Final Four team was outside of the top 10 in KenPom's adjusted defensive efficiency this season. And the top 15 or 20 is a hard cutoff for that level of achievement most years. BYU has had one top-50 defense in the last 10 years and was closer to 100 than they were to 50 this past year.

bear2be2 said:

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IvanBear said:

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Quinton said:

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Bu's Nil is almost certainly higher than Iowa st and Houston. Outside of Ku and K state, pretty sure they spent the most in conference. It is not the primary issue.

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BYU apparently number one now, but that's what happens when you have cult money.

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BYU and Tech look like they're shooting to compete at the top of the league in NIL payouts. Tech's oil money is proving to be a boon in both major sports.

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Yeah, about that ...

I think there are just so many factors that go into this than CSD being attracted to shiny objects (blech). For one, remember the lil conference realignment thing? I'm sure he was pressured (both outside & internally) to get the top recruits. Problem is, the NBA wanted them too. Can't compete w that, even w NIL.

Regardless, nothing to be done except move forward. What can we look fwd to w Cam Carr, Obi Agbim, JJ White & Michael Rataj?

marigold23 said:

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I think there are just so many factors that go into this than CSD being attracted to shiny objects (blech). For one, remember the lil conference realignment thing? I'm sure he was pressured (both outside & internally) to get the top recruits. Problem is, the NBA wanted them too. Can't compete w that, even w NIL.

Regardless, nothing to be done except move forward. What can we look fwd to w Cam Carr, Obi Agbim, JJ White & Michael Rataj?

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A brand new roster for 2026?

IowaBear said:

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5. Two of which are never going to play at iSU. 2 others who will play sparingly. And 1 contributed. Every program is going to have transfers. That's just unavoidable.
They're returning 3 starters. That should be the long term goal. Some level of retention

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We didn't even have a nucleus of three starters to retain. We had just one returning starter that we really needed to retain, and we lost him because we weren't willing to pay even our lone returning starter close to what he was apparently worth. That signals to me that we may not have the NIL budget that we need. I know we needed to ensure we had enough to buy 2 - 3 more starters after retaining Wright, and we must've concluded that we didn't have the surplus we would need if we paid Wright what the market demanded.

Big12Fan2024 said:

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Don't you think BYU and Tech are going to be an interesting study. 18 to 23 year olds are not typically known to have the highest level of maturity, and that is particularly magnified when they have agitators in their ears telling them things aren't fair.

So you have (just as examples) Dybantsa at $4 million and Rob at $3.5 million. You've gotta believe Saunders is somewhere in that range too or otherwise he would be walking into the portal and probably re-joining Pope at Kentucky. BYU has a lot of money, but as much money as they have they ain't paying everyone $3 million and above. The average price for most guys is in the $50 thousand to $150 thousand range, which is obviously still a lot of money for a kid that age.

But, suddenly, let's say we're now in late December or early January and some kid who's only getting $50 thousand is having a great year and any of the big money boys is having an off year. With all the handlers and voices around the $50 thousand kid, he's hearing and remembering that he has to run the same number of laps as the kid getting $4 million. He has to practice the same number of hours. He has to do everything the kid is who is making 80x what he's making. Seems like all of this is ripe with the potential for team dissension and turmoil. It will be interesting to see how these kinds of situations play out.

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Agree, we can try to get rising sophomores and juniors out of the transfer portal on the cheap, but as soon as they have success, their price tag goes up dramatically like Wright's did.

marigold23 said:

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I think there are just so many factors that go into this than CSD being attracted to shiny objects (blech). For one, remember the lil conference realignment thing? I'm sure he was pressured (both outside & internally) to get the top recruits. Problem is, the NBA wanted them too. Can't compete w that, even w NIL.

Regardless, nothing to be done except move forward. What can we look fwd to w Cam Carr, Obi Agbim, JJ White & Michael Rataj?

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Expectations sky high

Oso del lago said:

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marigold23 said:

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I think there are just so many factors that go into this than CSD being attracted to shiny objects (blech). For one, remember the lil conference realignment thing? I'm sure he was pressured (both outside & internally) to get the top recruits. Problem is, the NBA wanted them too. Can't compete w that, even w NIL.

Regardless, nothing to be done except move forward. What can we look fwd to w Cam Carr, Obi Agbim, JJ White & Michael Rataj?

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Expectations sky high

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Plus Tounde! Honestly, lfg

Chuckroast said:

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IowaBear said:

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5. Two of which are never going to play at iSU. 2 others who will play sparingly. And 1 contributed. Every program is going to have transfers. That's just unavoidable.
They're returning 3 starters. That should be the long term goal. Some level of retention

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We didn't even have a nucleus of three starters to retain. We had just one returning starter that we really needed to retain, and we lost him because we weren't willing to pay even our lone returning starter close to what he was apparently worth. That signals to me that we may not have the NIL budget that we need. I know we needed to ensure we had enough to buy 2 - 3 more starters after retaining Wright, and we must've concluded that we didn't have the surplus we would need if we paid Wright what the market demanded.

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I'm glad we weren't willing to pay $3.5 million for him. Whether or not there was a bidding war, BYU way overpaid. At some point you have to say you're not going to be held hostage by the dad of a young player.

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

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Chuckroast said:

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IowaBear said:

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5. Two of which are never going to play at iSU. 2 others who will play sparingly. And 1 contributed. Every program is going to have transfers. That's just unavoidable.
They're returning 3 starters. That should be the long term goal. Some level of retention

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We didn't even have a nucleus of three starters to retain. We had just one returning starter that we really needed to retain, and we lost him because we weren't willing to pay even our lone returning starter close to what he was apparently worth. That signals to me that we may not have the NIL budget that we need. I know we needed to ensure we had enough to buy 2 - 3 more starters after retaining Wright, and we must've concluded that we didn't have the surplus we would need if we paid Wright what the market demanded.

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I'm glad we weren't willing to pay $3.5 million for him. Whether or not there was a bidding war, BYU way overpaid. At some point you have to say you're not going to be held hostage by the dad of a young player.

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That's basically my point. If you don't have the NIL money, that price tag is going to be too high. Schools that can afford players in that price range will be willing to pay it.

With the popularity of the college game and the money and tv viewership it draws, it's not hard to conceive that players will start passing up the draft simply because they can make more money by playing college ball an extra year or two.

It's a message board. People can be as critical as they want. I think it's fair to be critical of the past few teams while acknowledging the massive change in the game and some of the bad luck that has befallen us.

Drew took over a program that was in a flaming dumpster filled with **** and turned it into a national champion. That alone should dampen criticism a tad. Doesn't mean I won't say our defense has sucked the past few years and I hope we bring in an assistant who can help address that, but I'm not going to endlessly worry.

I'm not a sunshine pumper. I'll call a spade a spade but as long as Drew is 100% invested then I have hope we can get back to pushing for better seeds and going deeper into the tournament.