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Solid 2nd Round Exit Team
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Last: 28 days ago by TechDawgMc
Hard to argue with your statement, Bill Parsells would say, "you are what your
Record says you are."
Record says you are."
Round 1 exit is not unrealistic if the leaders on the team don't show up motivated and play aggressively.
Can't imagine why they would not, but you still have to hit your shots no matter how motivated you are.sizzles0 said:
Round 1 exit is not unrealistic if the leaders on the team don't show up motivated and play aggressively.
Even now on the women's side even first round games are not gimmes if you are less than about a 3 seed. Just 2 years ago LSU was on the verge of losing in the first round at home to a 15 seed, and how many times have we seen a good men's team of ours fall in the first round to a mid-major.
Right now Creme (I know, worthless, but only bracketology to look at of which I know) has us as a 6th seed in South Bend. We would be playing Middle Tennessee. Look at their record and the games they played. It is nothing to pooh-pooh. They beat Houston and Tennessee in non-conference. Houston by 25. I suspect were they in the XII, they would not have been at the bottom of the conference. They also have height. They would be a handful. This is not a match up I would want.
The committee often gives these mid-majors low seeds just because of who they have played, and since they really haven't played a lot of majors, it is hard to gauge them, but this team won their conference by 5 games. But I'm sure many here would only look at the seed and stop there.
BU great Nina Davis is an assistant at Middle TN.
I have no doubt that the team will be motivated and play with energy. Lack of effort is not the cause of most of our losses. But somehow we have got to stop having these cold shooting spells where multiple players can't hit the side of a barn. I'm sure that these layups, mid-range shots, and even three pointers are made in practice sessions. Perhaps when the cold shooting begins in actual game situations there needs to be a timeout called and everyone told to take a deep breath, focus, and remember how these shots can be made.
Baylor shot 31% on three point attempts for the Big 12 Conference season. If you have watched Baylor what would you tell your defense, let them shot three's. Why did we take 30 three point shots against Iowa State? We hit only 27%, why do so many fans think we are a good shooting perimeter team, we are not.
Making the same mistake over and over……..
Making the same mistake over and over……..
DFW Bill said:
Baylor shot 31% on three point attempts for the Big 12 Conference season. If you have watched Baylor what would you tell your defense, let them shot three's. Why did we take 30 three point shots against Iowa State? We hit only 27%, why do so many fans think we are a good shooting perimeter team, we are not.
Making the same mistake over and over……..
Coach seems to always be ok with create your own shot and Jack it up anytime, from anywhere on court . That's why many fans think we look so undisciplined at times.
Bill, what is their real alternative? We go inside we get stuffed. If we pass inside the receiver is smothered with taller defenders. If we get the foul, great, but if there is no foul or one doesn't get called it is essentially a turnover. The shot that seems to be there and they have taken several times and made is Walker or others stopping in the paint for a pull up instead of trying to go to the basket. But they don't take it as often as it looks to be there. But yesterday, several had that shot, an open shot, Andrews, Edwards, Buggs from the side. They didn't make them.DFW Bill said:
Baylor shot 31% on three point attempts for the Big 12 Conference season. If you have watched Baylor what would you tell your defense, let them shot three's. Why did we take 30 three point shots against Iowa State? We hit only 27%, why do so many fans think we are a good shooting perimeter team, we are not.
Making the same mistake over and over……..
Forget the three point shot, yesterday we barely shot any better on 2's. We were 16 of 48 shooting 2's, many of them from less than 3'. That is 33% compared to the 27% from 3. When you consider that you get an extra point shooting a 3, without trying to figure out the math, we may have actually gotten more out of the 3's than the 2's.
Until we get some type of presence inside that is at least considered a threat, is big enough to move someone like Crooks off her spot a bit to create a driving lane or force her into a more difficult shot on defense we are going to have these games like yesterday. The frustrating thing is that it would only take 2 or 3 shots or stops to have beaten ISU twice, KSU and OU. It is not like we are not in the games, we just have to shoot a decent percentage and for whatever reason our open 2's are just as far off as our 3's in particular games. And most of those 2's are ones we have made over multiple games this year. It is not like these women are bad shooters, but it seems that in a particular game they will be OK, in others they are all throwing up bricks from wherever they are on the court, even under the basket with sometimes little interference from a defender.
I'm not going to spend the time looking back because it isn't worth it. But over the last 20 years have we ever had a team that was this short in the middle of players that are playing? It looks like Buggs at 6'1" is the tallest. Sure hope Leti and Kyla develop for next year. We have seen players make great strides between their freshman and sophomore years. That said, they do have some height, but I do have concerns about their "bulk". I suspect they will go all out to try to find one in the portal, but that assumes capable ones enter the portal.
The only shots that I see being "jacked up" are drives coming from Walker and Felder into a forest of trees surrounding the basket. I wonder if that was what they had been doing with their old teams? Sure wish we could get back to the model where most of our players are coming from the high school ranks and can be brought up in the system and not having to possibly get over bad habits. I understand however, that this has not been a real option these past few years. Because of the few number of players we had left after the coaching change, we needed some experienced bodies quick just to keep afloat. Any HS pipeline we had was blown up with the change and even Kim's last year, she was depending on transfers to fill holes, not bring in HS players.74Bear said:DFW Bill said:
Baylor shot 31% on three point attempts for the Big 12 Conference season. If you have watched Baylor what would you tell your defense, let them shot three's. Why did we take 30 three point shots against Iowa State? We hit only 27%, why do so many fans think we are a good shooting perimeter team, we are not.
Making the same mistake over and over……..
Coach seems to always be ok with create your own shot and Jack it up anytime, from anywhere on court . That's why many fans think we look so undisciplined at times.
Perhaps the portal is the devil that has to be served now, but I know that Drew has had some of his better teams and players when he was able to have players for multiple years that could be brought up through his system. Wish we could get back to the model where our bulk of incoming talent is coming from HS. I doubt fans would want to be patient with that, but wouldn't it be the best long-term model to use?
Waco, we have a coaching problem..........
That is a fireable offense
It would help if our players looked at the goal when trying layups instead of just throwing up wild shots that hit side or top of backboard. They are obviously begging for foul calls and refs are not buying.
2ndguesser
S16 needs to be reached. Time to take that next step. Anything beyond would be gravy.
Agreed, but I think it is going to be difficult, not because of the coaching, not because of the players we have or the style they play, but by one thing.....no effective inside presence. If we end up with Middle Tennessee in the first round, we will be going up against an athletic 6'6" and more that are just below that and we will have to play our best game of the season to get by them. If we had someone effective now at anywhere close to that height all the negativism found on this board would likely have never appeared this season except for those that just want to carp on Nicki because they don't like Rhoades.IowaBear said:
S16 needs to be reached. Time to take that next step. Anything beyond would be gravy.
I don't think the source of our struggles this year have much of anything to do with what people here complain about the most. It is that missing piece which affects everything else we try to do or want to do forcing us into the type of play that as of late, we have not been consistent playing.
Oh it'll be difficult zero doubt about it. I just think the natural next step for CNC is the 2nd weekend. I'm really hoping we get out with Gonzaga as that's a team we can match up with really well (assuming we both with the rd of 64 game)
I've only seen a little bit of MTSU but they're one of a few MM teams I'd prefer to avoid. Fairfield is another
I've only seen a little bit of MTSU but they're one of a few MM teams I'd prefer to avoid. Fairfield is another
blackie, your sentiment is 100% correct, we will struggle against size in postseason, especially if shots aren't falling. But you can't give the staff immunity on this, a huge part of college coaching is recruiting to your style of play. If this is the team makeup they wanted, then the scheme doesn't work.blackie said:Agreed, but I think it is going to be difficult, not because of the coaching, not because of the players we have or the style they play, but by one thing.....no effective inside presence. If we end up with Middle Tennessee in the first round, we will be going up against an athletic 6'6" and more that are just below that and we will have to play our best game of the season to get by them. If we had someone effective now at anywhere close to that height all the negativism found on this board would likely have never appeared this season except for those that just want to carp on Nicki because they don't like Rhoades.IowaBear said:
S16 needs to be reached. Time to take that next step. Anything beyond would be gravy.
I don't think the source of our struggles this year have much of anything to do with what people here complain about the most. It is that missing piece which affects everything else we try to do or want to do forcing us into the type of play that as of late, we have not been consistent playing.
"If we had someone effective now at anywhere close to that height"
if we had someone who made every shot we would be doing great too lol. Effective bigs don't grow on trees. We've been lucky to see a bunch over the years, but the good ones are few and far between. You have to scheme to your personnel and overcome the deficiencies. That's coaching.
So what type of player does Nikki need for her system? Right now she has recruited a team that has no height, can't play defense and can't shoot. I guess they look good in green and gold?
We don't know what she has tried to recruit, because it takes both sides to have a player sign on the bottom line. We only see what is the end result. Effective bigs in the portal don't grow on trees. And you can't contact players unless they go into the portal. She did get Madison last year out of the portal, but her back injury this year was really unfortunate. But she is 6'3" so we still need something bigger for next season if we can find one.BU82EX said:
So what type of player does Nikki need for her system? Right now she has recruited a team that has no height, can't play defense and can't shoot. I guess they look good in green and gold?
If you know for a fact the staff has not tried to recruit height, you have a point. But i doubt that is the case as CNC has stated a big is the priority. If Lety can make a leap from now to next year, it would go a long way to resolving the problem even if a portal big is unavailable.
I know you're all for Madison, but i don't think, regardless of injury, she would have been a factor against some of the taller teams. We have one of the tallest players in the conference on our team and it doesn't mean anything. I think we need to get it out of our heads that we are going to see the same post presence we've had in the past. That type of player doesn't fit into the offense we run now. Iowa State is a great example of having a serviceable "big" that fits into their system. Never going to be an All American, but helps cover the size deficiencies.
Now it was in the MVC, but Madison was 1st team all conference last year, so I think she has more in her than what we got to see this year. Lety is a freshmen. We don't know how she will turn out. She obviously needs development, so no she hasn't meant anything this year. Doesn't mean she will never make a difference. Will be interesting to see what we get with Kyla. She did show some promise last year.franke said:
I know you're all for Madison, but i don't think, regardless of injury, she would have been a factor against some of the taller teams. We have one of the tallest players in the conference on our team and it doesn't mean anything. I think we need to get it out of our heads that we are going to see the same post presence we've had in the past. That type of player doesn't fit into the offense we run now. Iowa State is a great example of having a serviceable "big" that fits into their system. Never going to be an All American, but helps cover the size deficiencies.
But I don't think we need the dominating post presence as we had in the past. We just need some size and bulk in there so the defense can't focus on the shooters, someone that can help create a driving lane and we have better rebounding on both ends. A Crooks would be fine to start, but you need more than one because she can't play a whole game or close to it, at least not yet. Right now, Buggs is our tallest that has been playing and she is only 6'1". Get that piece and see how the offense works. If people see team improvement it would likely boost recruiting. That is how it went under KM. For a long time until we got Griner we did not get the elite players. Even after the 2005 championship we didn't really get any great ones out of HS until we got Griner and in those years our post-season success was very limited.
And to be honest, having an average big works in this age's Big 12. Audie Crooks would absolutely get cooked in the SEC with the size most of those teams have. It's an easier matchup against the Big 12. Most teams don't have a dominant big in this league.
We indeed have a lot of undersized guards and lack a true post. CNC recruits Bella and Buggs have sufficient size for their positions and usually shoot well enough, although Buggs does not shoot beyond mid-range.
Fritz was recruited as a bigger guard who could shoot, but for whatever reason lost her confidence shooting this year. Hopefully she will be back and playing well next year.
As of now, it looks like the post next year will be played by some combination of Lety, Abraham and Madison.
We will still have the three short guards -- Jana, Sarah and Jada, but I continue to hope we will have no more than 2 of them on the floor at a given time. They have each played well in spots, and bad in spots. For example, after several good games including her career high, I don't think Jana hit a single shot against Iowa State.
YaYa can score (I would describe her as a scorer, not shooter), although she is turnover prone and is inconsistent (this team's Mathew Mayer in some ways either making a really good play or a really bad one, and not much in between). I would say she has sufficient size for her position.
In spite of closing the last game 1-18, we were probably only one made shot, maybe two, from being able to close out that Iowa State game with a win. I'm not satisfied with where we are, but don't think we are that far away from routinely getting back to the Sweet16, and then onward from there (one step at a time).
I don't expect it, but who knows, maybe we will upset someone on the road and get to the Sweet16 this year. Unlikely in my opinion, but certainly possible depending on the match-up.
Fritz was recruited as a bigger guard who could shoot, but for whatever reason lost her confidence shooting this year. Hopefully she will be back and playing well next year.
As of now, it looks like the post next year will be played by some combination of Lety, Abraham and Madison.
We will still have the three short guards -- Jana, Sarah and Jada, but I continue to hope we will have no more than 2 of them on the floor at a given time. They have each played well in spots, and bad in spots. For example, after several good games including her career high, I don't think Jana hit a single shot against Iowa State.
YaYa can score (I would describe her as a scorer, not shooter), although she is turnover prone and is inconsistent (this team's Mathew Mayer in some ways either making a really good play or a really bad one, and not much in between). I would say she has sufficient size for her position.
In spite of closing the last game 1-18, we were probably only one made shot, maybe two, from being able to close out that Iowa State game with a win. I'm not satisfied with where we are, but don't think we are that far away from routinely getting back to the Sweet16, and then onward from there (one step at a time).
I don't expect it, but who knows, maybe we will upset someone on the road and get to the Sweet16 this year. Unlikely in my opinion, but certainly possible depending on the match-up.
DFW Bill said:
Baylor shot 31% on three point attempts for the Big 12 Conference season. If you have watched Baylor what would you tell your defense, let them shot three's. Why did we take 30 three point shots against Iowa State? We hit only 27%, why do so many fans think we are a good shooting perimeter team, we are not.
Making the same mistake over and over……..
Coaching issue.
The coaching team has to take both the credit and the blame for this season. Altogether, we had a decent season that was slightly better than last year due to an oustanding start. However, we finished poorly and the b12 tournament result was quite disappointing.
In sports, you always want to accomplish negatve splits, finish stronger than you started. The coaching staff deserves the blame for that decline.
Player development is key. Fitting the game plan to the skills of the players, giving them things they can do and get better at is key. Arguably, JVG is the only player that has really improved throughout the season.
I think the coaches have done a pretty good job of teaching defensive intensity. Generally, the team did ok defensively. We rotated well, filled some passing lanes quickly, created turnovers, but we missed opportunities to double team the low post. If the coaching staff didn't assign that duty' then the blame should lay there.
Offensively, we can easily be stymied if we are not red hot from the three. Mid range should have been a point of emphasis all year. Watch South Carolina and how easy they fall back to a 10-12 footer, mostly using the glass. Its a thing of beauty and really opens up the inside and outside for much better looks.
Lastly, we virtually have no high percentage in bounds plays. This has got to improve.
We have enough talent, height, etc. to play at a higher level than we have been playing. Yes, KM would have these same players playing at a higher level, of course she would, she's a HOF coach, that is what she does.
That's not bad news, that's good news -So now that the excuses are done and you know it can be done, they just have to figure it out.
We still have a chance to finish strong.
Sic'em!
In sports, you always want to accomplish negatve splits, finish stronger than you started. The coaching staff deserves the blame for that decline.
Player development is key. Fitting the game plan to the skills of the players, giving them things they can do and get better at is key. Arguably, JVG is the only player that has really improved throughout the season.
I think the coaches have done a pretty good job of teaching defensive intensity. Generally, the team did ok defensively. We rotated well, filled some passing lanes quickly, created turnovers, but we missed opportunities to double team the low post. If the coaching staff didn't assign that duty' then the blame should lay there.
Offensively, we can easily be stymied if we are not red hot from the three. Mid range should have been a point of emphasis all year. Watch South Carolina and how easy they fall back to a 10-12 footer, mostly using the glass. Its a thing of beauty and really opens up the inside and outside for much better looks.
Lastly, we virtually have no high percentage in bounds plays. This has got to improve.
We have enough talent, height, etc. to play at a higher level than we have been playing. Yes, KM would have these same players playing at a higher level, of course she would, she's a HOF coach, that is what she does.
That's not bad news, that's good news -So now that the excuses are done and you know it can be done, they just have to figure it out.
We still have a chance to finish strong.
Sic'em!
Actually we have finished this season so far, better than last year. We won our last 6 games before losing to ISU in the tournament. Last year we went 3-3 in our last 6 games and lost to ISU by a wider margin in the first tournament game than this year. Not sure why you say we have finished the season weaker than last year. We have lost 5 fewer games to this point than our record last year and our conference record is two games better. And when your tallest player who is playing is 6'1", you don't have enough height.3rdgenbear said:
The coaching team has to take both the credit and the blame for this season. Altogether, we had a decent season that was slightly better than last year due to an oustanding start. However, we finished poorly and the b12 tournament result was quite disappointing.
In sports, you always want to accomplish negatve splits, finish stronger than you started. The coaching staff deserves the blame for that decline.
Player development is key. Fitting the game plan to the skills of the players, giving them things they can do and get better at is key. Arguably, JVG is the only player that has really imptoved throughout the season.
I think the coaches have done a pretty good job of teaching defensive intensity. Generally, the team did ok defensively. We rotated well, filled some passing lanes quickly, created turnovers, but we missed opportunities to double team the low post. If the coaching staff didn't assign that duty' then the blame should lay there.
Offensively, we can easily be stymied if we are not red hot from the three. Mid range should have been a point of emphasis all year. Watch South Carolina and how easy they fall back to a 10-12 footer, mostly using the glass. Its a thing of beauty and really opens up the inside and outside for much better looks.
Lastly, we virtually have no high percentage in bounds plays. This has got to improve.
We have enough talent, height, etc. to play at a higher level than we have been playing. Yes, KM would have these same players playing at a higher level, of course she would, she's a HOF coach, that is what she does.
That's not bad news, that's good news -So now that the excuses are done and you know it can be done, they just have to figure it out.
We still have a chance to finish strong.
Sic'em!
Regarding player development, I also think Bella's play has greatly improved this year.
The last 6 games we should have won! Probably should've won by bigger margins.! Not very good teams!! But, they're still wins!!
My point wasn't to compare last year's results wth this year's. No doubt, we achieved better results this year over last.
However, this season we failed to remarkably improve through this season. I expected to see a comparably well oiled machine from pre january.
Jana made the biggest leap. I agree, Bella continues to improve, she is our most solid player. Lety, follow Bella and you'll be fine. Mainly, follow her foot work. No one does it better than Bella.
I just don't want our staff to limit our team by the players that we don't have.
Improve what we have!
However, this season we failed to remarkably improve through this season. I expected to see a comparably well oiled machine from pre january.
Jana made the biggest leap. I agree, Bella continues to improve, she is our most solid player. Lety, follow Bella and you'll be fine. Mainly, follow her foot work. No one does it better than Bella.
I just don't want our staff to limit our team by the players that we don't have.
Improve what we have!
Why do you think they are or would want to do so?3rdgenbear said:
My point wasn't to compare last year's results wth this year's. No doubt, we achieved better results this year over last.
However, this season we faild to remarkably improve through this season. I expected to see a comparably well oiled machine from pre january.
Jana made the biggest leap. I agree, Bella continues to improve, she is our most solid player. Lety, follow Bella and you'll be fine. Mainly, follow her foot work. No one does it better than Bella.
I just don't want our staff to limit our team by the players that we don't have.
Improve what we have!
blackie said:Why do you think they are or would want to do so?3rdgenbear said:
My point wasn't to compare last year's results wth this year's. No doubt, we achieved better results this year over last.
However, this season we faild to remarkably improve through this season. I expected to see a comparably well oiled machine from pre january.
Jana made the biggest leap. I agree, Bella continues to improve, she is our most solid player. Lety, follow Bella and you'll be fine. Mainly, follow her foot work. No one does it better than Bella.
I just don't want our staff to limit our team by the players that we don't have.
Improve what we have!
Hopefully, the coaches have adapted the scheme to fit our players. The common sentiment on this fan board is that we need height, we need NIL etc. If the coaches have bought into that, they no longer believe in this team and the players won"t either. Belief, will, determination are the most important factors that a coach brings to a team.
We have what we need. If coached well, this team can get to the sweet 16.
I think you are throwing up a strawman that just isn't there and for what purpose I have no idea. Of course the coaches believe in the team. You go with what you have. But coaches and the players are not dummies. They know there are limitations on what they can do. You can't remove physical aspects from affecting the game. They try to scheme around that but there is only so much you can do with your tallest functioning player being 6'1" going against a good team with one or more relative trees in the middle, especially when they are surrounded by shooters on the outside.3rdgenbear said:blackie said:Why do you think they are or would want to do so?3rdgenbear said:
My point wasn't to compare last year's results wth this year's. No doubt, we achieved better results this year over last.
However, this season we faild to remarkably improve through this season. I expected to see a comparably well oiled machine from pre january.
Jana made the biggest leap. I agree, Bella continues to improve, she is our most solid player. Lety, follow Bella and you'll be fine. Mainly, follow her foot work. No one does it better than Bella.
I just don't want our staff to limit our team by the players that we don't have.
Improve what we have!
Hopefully, the coaches have adapted the scheme to fit our players. The common sentiment on this fan board is that we need height, we need NIL etc. If the coaches have bought into that, they know longer believe in this team and the players won"t either. Belief, will, determination are the most important factors that a coach brings to a team.
We have what we need. If coached well, this team can get to the sweet 16.
But the talk on this board about height and NIL are really talking about going forward from here roster-wise, not what happens in the next 2 to 3 weeks. We are losing three players for sure. We already have empty slots in the roster that could be filled immediately. New players must come in. A priority will be height in the middle if it can be found. I suspect if you asked everyone associated with the team, players, coaches or whoever, they would tell you the same thing.
Whether or not they get to the SS this year will depend on the matchups just like it does for every team. But that assumes we don't shoot 30% for the matchup to even matter. You can certainly "believe" in your team aiming to do their best and at the same time everyone involved knowing where there are holes that need to be filled. But that is for next season.
Maybe AP will come along and explain everything to us again on how great the new offense should be and why shooting threes is important even when you miss them!DFW Bill said:
Baylor shot 31% on three point attempts for the Big 12 Conference season. If you have watched Baylor what would you tell your defense, let them shot three's. Why did we take 30 three point shots against Iowa State? We hit only 27%, why do so many fans think we are a good shooting perimeter team, we are not.
Making the same mistake over and over……..
There needs to be balance....and if you have some monster(s) inside to get you easy buckets on easy shots then that is a really big advantage to have!
in CNCs head coaching history, there has been an emphasis on shooting threes. For people who have watched Baylor for a long time, we probably need to get used to not having a premier big like we have had in the past. That era is over.
The offense is more drive/drive and dish for 3s.
The offense is more drive/drive and dish for 3s.
I suspect that history is because of how the pro game is played which likely means that is where the college game is eventually headed. I think if she could get one, she would enthusiastically take one. You can have an effective big in the middle that makes everything work whether or not they fill up the basket or just pass out and create lanes for drives and are a big defensive problem for the opponent. The biggest problem is that those are not low-hanging fruit on trees. They are rare, not commonly found.franke said:
in CNCs head coaching history, there has been an emphasis on shooting threes. For people who have watched Baylor for a long time, we probably need to get used to not having a premier big like we have had in the past. That era is over.
The offense is more drive/drive and dish for 3s.
Under Kim when we did not have the large presence inside we struggled in the tournament against outside shooting teams. I recall several disappointments in the SS or E8 because we could not rely on the strong inside game and were not really equipped to post a real threat from outside...all the while getting beat by 3's from the opponent. Both types of offenses can work if you have all the pieces.
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