NC is an amazing tactician. I get the feeling that she has had to deal with some difficulties(personalities or otherwise). No other explanation for the bad stretch we went through. She was able to pull us through the hard times and get us to the dance and then push us through to the sweet 16. The VA Tech game was a masterpiece in strategy. How many times did we implement her out of bounds plays or end of game plays where we either scored or ran time off the clock. Her use of timeouts was masterful. Her personnel moves when we ran into early foul trouble were right on point. Her defensive system has been the difference in so many games as we are able to take away the easy 3 pointer. The only weakness in this team is it's offensive inconsistency and that is more due to execution than system. Her knowledge of the game and her wisdom in letting us ride a hot Jada made all of the difference.
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one of the best strategically coached women's games that I have seen at Baylor
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Last: 29 days ago by Brusinbear2001
yeah i really feel like most of the time it's wide open shots on offense, it's just about knocking it down. There maybe like 4-5 times a game where the defense just seems to guess right on the screens and we run out of options to run out of it.
Totally agree!
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That slip screen off the inbounds to seal it last night for Jada was brilliant.
I caught the end of the game after watching the men's game in person. Very exciting and fun to watch the final few minutes.
Brian Ethridge said:
That slip screen off the inbounds to seal it last night for Jada was brilliant.
That was a fabulous play and should have all but sealed it if they'd called the obvious intentional foul.
OTOH, there was a tun the clock play right at the end that was pretty awful.
Overall, a very well coached game.
Have not been a NC fan but I totally agree she did a great job. We should not have won that game for more than one reason but she found a way..great win. However, one game does not make..
oh my gosh, one game cannot make what? Cannot make you respect her and that she is not an awful coach? Cannot respect the fact that we are in the sweet 16? We haven't just won one big game but some Baylor fans are really big on what have you done for me lately and it is sad!!! I seen on the Men's board how long should we keep Scott Drew that's ridiculous. This team is good we still have not played our best game yet collectively, without some mistakes we made we would have won by 10 plus on sunday. I do not understand what more you need to just give a coach respect.
Not worthy of a response.
it's because you have nothing to say, you just hate to bring negativity. You say things like that but have nothing to back any of it up. I do not even know why you come on this board if i am being honest. Nothing will impress you, so just don't buy a ticket. Go support who you want to support but clearly it isn't Baylor.
What was also impressive was the team focus, composure, and energy on display during the entire game in what was a super-charged atmosphere. So hoping that can carry forward to the next round.
Fritz definitely adds a big defensive component
In my experience, people who don't give Coach Collen her propers do it because of reasons unrelated to her prowess as a basketball coach.
Imagine not basing your opinion of a basketball coach on her ability to coach the game of basketball.
Imagine not basing your opinion of a basketball coach on her ability to coach the game of basketball.
if we could get her to knock down 3's she is a perfect option off the bench for Bella
In your experience? That's weird wording given that there are very valid reasons that CNC has struggled in many games late. She is knowledgeable but she has struggled in both time management and player substitutions on several occasions throughout the season.Mitch Henessey said:
In my experience, people who don't give Coach Collen her propers do it because of reasons unrelated to her prowess as a basketball coach.
Imagine not basing your opinion of a basketball coach on her ability to coach the game of basketball.
"In my opinion" or "I feel" would be a much better way of phrasing your comment. "In my experience" has you losing immediate credibility in anything that follows.
"In my experience observing and interacting with Baylor fans, most of whom are generally clueless..."bawitdaball said:In your experience? That's weird wording given that there are very valid reasons that CNC has struggled in many games late. She is knowledgeable but she has struggled in both time management and player substitutions on several occasions throughout the season.Mitch Henessey said:
In my experience, people who don't give Coach Collen her propers do it because of reasons unrelated to her prowess as a basketball coach.
Imagine not basing your opinion of a basketball coach on her ability to coach the game of basketball.
"In my opinion" or "I feel" would be a much better way of phrasing your comment. "In my experience" has you losing immediate credibility in anything that follows.
I didn't think I had to elaborate, but I spelled it out for you. You feel better about things now?
In the experience I have with our fanbase, the vast majority of criticisms of Nicki Collen come down to three things, none of which have anything to do with her coaching on the basketball court:
1) Collen's not Kim Mulkey. Much like a former president who won't seem to go away, Mulkey had/has a cult of personality, and people who fall into that cult are not easily extricated. No amount of on-court success will measure up to what they've built Mulkey to in their minds, and no amount of unseemly behavior by our former coach will be enough to dissuade them of their affection and pining for her. This is the number one reason with a bullet.
2) Collen's a player's coach. She runs an offensive system that players like, and she cares about the things that her players care about, whether on the court, or off of it. Our former coach was a hard ass, and it got results. She gave tough love, was pri.ckly towards the media, opposing coaches, and opposing fanbases, and a lot of people ate that up. It's hard to argue with the results, but the methods used to achieve those results weren't always pretty. Because we course corrected pretty hard with our subsequent coaching hire, many fans who liked having a real hardo as HC dislike Coach Collen because of her demeanor alone.
3) Collen is seen as "woke" (whatever the hell that word means anymore). This is related to point #2, but there's a bit more nuance to it, as well. Coach Collen joined our program at a pretty volatile time in our country, politically and socially. A lot of players in WBB are outspoken about political and social issues, and a lot of fans don't like that. Collen hasn't shut down her players from speaking up and speaking out, and the fans who would prefer their team's players "shut up and dribble" do not appreciate that. She also immediately embraced Brittney Griner, and was unabashed in her support of Griner when she was unjustly imprisoned in Russia. There are many who felt that, because Griner made several mistakes (some minor - like allowing an author with an agenda to inaccurately portray her view of her time at Baylor - some major - like getting into a domestic altercation) that she didn't deserve any leeway from Baylor fans. There is also a strong undercurrent of homophobia in this camp, as though everything else may have been overlooked, if she just hadn't committed the cardinal sin of being gay. Although people who are opposed to Griner won't often voice this publicly. If people are of a certain political persuasion, Collen's support of her players speaking up and her support of Griner are unforgivable, and no amount of on-court success will ever win them back.
#1, as I mentioned, is the overwhelming majority of the criticism. It's difficult to follow a legend, and Mulkey is a legend, regardless of your feelings about her. #2 is probably the closest to a tactical basketball criticism, and it's similar to the fans we have who criticize Scott Drew for not being tough enough on players. #3 is a small minority, but those people are very vocal in their disdain for Coach Collen.
So, yes, "in my experience," people who don't respect Nicki Collen as a basketball coach do it for reasons that are generally unrelated to basketball.
I should add, there nothing wrong with disliking Coach Collen. It's a free country, and people have a right to their opinions (although disliking her because of #3 is incredibly stupid). I just wish people that continually dog on her would admit that the reasons they dislike her have nothing to do with basketball.
And critiquing and criticizing coaching decisions is also totally in bounds. No coach is perfect, and part of the fun (and I'd argue, the role) of being a fan is to dissect games and hold the coaches accountable (players, too, but less so at the college level, so long as they're still classified as "amateurs"). Just because I'm defending Coach Collen and have a high amount of affection towards her doesn't make her immune to criticism, nor does it make legitimate questions about basketball strategy inappropriate.
Last thing I'll say: if you do find yourself falling into camp #3 in your dislike for Coach Collen, at least have the self awareness to say, "yeah, she's a good basketball coach, but I can't bring myself to like her because I'm a small-minded bigot."
And critiquing and criticizing coaching decisions is also totally in bounds. No coach is perfect, and part of the fun (and I'd argue, the role) of being a fan is to dissect games and hold the coaches accountable (players, too, but less so at the college level, so long as they're still classified as "amateurs"). Just because I'm defending Coach Collen and have a high amount of affection towards her doesn't make her immune to criticism, nor does it make legitimate questions about basketball strategy inappropriate.
Last thing I'll say: if you do find yourself falling into camp #3 in your dislike for Coach Collen, at least have the self awareness to say, "yeah, she's a good basketball coach, but I can't bring myself to like her because I'm a small-minded bigot."
go lady bears!Brian Ethridge said:
......
Go Bears!
Mitch Henessey said:
Last thing I'll say: if you do find yourself falling into camp #3 in your dislike for Coach Collen, at least have the self awareness to say, "yeah, she's a good basketball coach, but I can't bring myself to like her because I'm a small-minded bigot."
Along with your statement "Much like a former President who won't seem to go away,"
WOW! Are you a relative of one of The View or just an avid, devoted, staunch viewer?
Those first eleven words pretty much jaded any possible credibility with the rest of your statements or actually… opinion. The fact you have trouble with "what does Woke mean" compounds it. Our nation is slowly coming out of its funk regarding that.
KM is GONE! She was great. A phenomenal coach and ambassador for BU in pathetic dark times. But she's gone and frankly I'm not taken with how her presence and character she's portraying presently. BUT that's strictly an opinion, mine. She's still a top five coach all time. Once again, IMO, I credit her with FORCING this "pass the plate small time Baptist church disguised as an institution with Athletics" to PAY a HC seven figures. I'll guarantee you those Deacon SOB's and Admin choked paying it. I hold her in infinite esteem for that.
I have no issue with NC with the exception of coaching. ALL coaches and ALL fans critique. I still have issues with SLOPPY passing and lax defenses in a lot of games. THAT's coaching. I have doubts of our game, intensity and play with the upcoming game with SC. Heck even CSD is getting criticism over soft defense, many are hoping with the vacancy of Jakus he'll find a strong defensive recruiter.
So… you really are pigeonholing many folks. Enjoy The Cesspool… View.
This team, at times, has had immensely sloppy play. They weren't prepared for the first matchup with Kanata, and struggled closing out games, ultimately losing games to Kansas State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma that they should have won. She also either hasn't recruited height, or hasn't been able to close the deal with players that would add height to the roster. You can't win a NC without a true post at the college level. She might want one that can shoot the 3 ball, which is fine, but you have to have height to provide a counter for other teams who do have height when playing defense.
She, and Baylor, benefited from an advantageous draw in the tournament. That is why it is March Madness. Coaches will tell you time and time again, it's about the matchups. That said, the program got over the hump and are playing in the second weekend. With a week to prepare, they can compete with UCS for a shot at the Elite 8.
CNC has made some questionable coaching decisions over the year, and has caused many to raise their hands to question and criticize. Maybe I don't fit into one of your three camps, but this team has looked like a middle school team at times, and looked like a final four contender at times. Once she is able to bring consistency to the floor, she will earn the respect of many.
I agree, she isn't Mulkey. But right now, she also isn't a Vic, Tara, or Dawn. She is likely more in line with Iowa's Lisa Bluder, who will likely be struggling once Clark graduates as she has relied heavily on her for the last four years. She too, struggles to find consistency.
Obviously all my opinion. But your three reasons why people dislike her leaves a ton unsaid. We finished fifth in the Big 12. We lost twice to Iowa State, a team we are far better than and would have won by double digits with a reliable 5 with size. We should have blown a double digit lead with under 90 seconds against West Virginia minus a fluke miscue. Often times fans get too high on a win and too low on a loss. You have to look at the entire resume. And I think very FEW on this board would say she isn't a good coach.
Again, just my opinion.
She, and Baylor, benefited from an advantageous draw in the tournament. That is why it is March Madness. Coaches will tell you time and time again, it's about the matchups. That said, the program got over the hump and are playing in the second weekend. With a week to prepare, they can compete with UCS for a shot at the Elite 8.
CNC has made some questionable coaching decisions over the year, and has caused many to raise their hands to question and criticize. Maybe I don't fit into one of your three camps, but this team has looked like a middle school team at times, and looked like a final four contender at times. Once she is able to bring consistency to the floor, she will earn the respect of many.
I agree, she isn't Mulkey. But right now, she also isn't a Vic, Tara, or Dawn. She is likely more in line with Iowa's Lisa Bluder, who will likely be struggling once Clark graduates as she has relied heavily on her for the last four years. She too, struggles to find consistency.
Obviously all my opinion. But your three reasons why people dislike her leaves a ton unsaid. We finished fifth in the Big 12. We lost twice to Iowa State, a team we are far better than and would have won by double digits with a reliable 5 with size. We should have blown a double digit lead with under 90 seconds against West Virginia minus a fluke miscue. Often times fans get too high on a win and too low on a loss. You have to look at the entire resume. And I think very FEW on this board would say she isn't a good coach.
Again, just my opinion.
Speaking of Lisa Bluder--Oregon's Kerry Graves ...after soaring with Ionescu, the Saballys, and Hebard--had first losing season since 2012. Surprised no one from Oregon has bailed yet. Maybe that Nike NIL $$ too hard to part with? I expect some Ducks fly to TCU to play for the coach who likely had a hand in their recruitment.
I think in some instances it is a case of seeing the splinter vs. seeing the plank. Every team looks sloppy at times. However, I have not seen so much of that since the turnaround later in the season. She has stated several times that height is the priority this off-season for the portal. All of us are speculating, me and you included as to why we don't yet have the height we need. I suspect some of it might be because portal players were still skeptical about Baylor not falling off the ledge because of Mulkey's departure. Hopefully this SS run will do away with some of that trepidation and they will join us. But there may be another reason of which we are not privy.bawitdaball said:
This team, at times, has had immensely sloppy play. They weren't prepared for the first matchup with Kanata, and struggled closing out games, ultimately losing games to Kansas State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma that they should have won. She also either hasn't recruited height, or hasn't been able to close the deal with players that would add height to the roster. You can't win a NC without a true post at the college level. She might want one that can shoot the 3 ball, which is fine, but you have to have height to provide a counter for other teams who do have height when playing defense.
She, and Baylor, benefited from an advantageous draw in the tournament. That is why it is March Madness. Coaches will tell you time and time again, it's about the matchups. That said, the program got over the hump and are playing in the second weekend. With a week to prepare, they can compete with UCS for a shot at the Elite 8.
CNC has made some questionable coaching decisions over the year, and has caused many to raise their hands to question and criticize. Maybe I don't fit into one of your three camps, but this team has looked like a middle school team at times, and looked like a final four contender at times. Once she is able to bring consistency to the floor, she will earn the respect of many.
I agree, she isn't Mulkey. But right now, she also isn't a Vic, Tara, or Dawn. She is likely more in line with Iowa's Lisa Bluder, who will likely be struggling once Clark graduates as she has relied heavily on her for the last four years. She too, struggles to find consistency.
Obviously all my opinion. But your three reasons why people dislike her leaves a ton unsaid. We finished fifth in the Big 12. We lost twice to Iowa State, a team we are far better than and would have won by double digits with a reliable 5 with size. We should have blown a double digit lead with under 90 seconds against West Virginia minus a fluke miscue. Often times fans get too high on a win and too low on a loss. You have to look at the entire resume. And I think very FEW on this board would say she isn't a good coach.
Again, just my opinion.
As far as scratching my head and seeing questionable coaching decisions, I did that dozens of times with Mulkey, even up to her last game here when she let UConn go on a 19-0 run without calling a timeout. Having Didi play until the end of just about every game even in blowouts, not giving Andrews or Jordan Oliver meaningful playing time during conference to prepare them to take over when truly needed. Didi went down and we were not prepared to close out that game and missed out on a FF that we should have had. Every coach makes what fans think are questionable or dumb decisions, but we don't have the advantage of knowing everything that is going on at the time in the game with their personnel. I think most of them get it right where we get it wrong because we are making assumptions or throwing up strawmen.
I think it rather overboard to say the team looked like a "middle school team". These are grown women. Perhaps say looked like a bottom half Big XII team and I wouldn't say a word, but throwing out such metaphors is not being objective and doesn't lend credibility to your analysis, IMO.
I think a lot of it is what one is watching for. If you are watching to find something to criticize you will find plenty with any coach we have ever had. If you are just watching only for the good you will likely overlook weaknesses that are there. I think she is a good coach. I also think we have not seen the best this program can be under her. I also think she also sees every critical negative that we see about the team. But there is no way for me to know the significance she places on each one and the complexities required to be sorted out to correct each one without creating another problem in the process, so I want even speculate.
And just like you......my opinion.
Based on their season, are there any someone would really want?BUVA said:
Speaking of Lisa Bluder--Oregon's Kerry Graves ...after soaring with Ionescu, the Saballys, and Hebard--had first losing season since 2012. Surprised no one from Oregon has bailed yet. Maybe that Nike NIL $$ too hard to part with? I expect some Ducks fly to TCU to play for the coach who likely had a hand in their recruitment.
Chance Gray was among the best on the court in the McDonald's game. It doesn't seem like she's going anywhere thoughblackie said:Based on their season, are there any someone would really want?BUVA said:
Speaking of Lisa Bluder--Oregon's Kerry Graves ...after soaring with Ionescu, the Saballys, and Hebard--had first losing season since 2012. Surprised no one from Oregon has bailed yet. Maybe that Nike NIL $$ too hard to part with? I expect some Ducks fly to TCU to play for the coach who likely had a hand in their recruitment.
Grace Van Slooten is 6'3" and averages 13 points a game, but she's already announced she's staying.
BUVA said:
Grace Van Slooten is 6'3" and averages 13 points a game, but she's already announced she's staying.
We need 6'5+ or a 6'3" - 6'4" with a body that can move people around.
You are correct. I meant "middle school" as in sloppy passes and high turnover rate. Obviously better than a real middle school team. Voice inflection didn't make it onto the page.blackie said:I think in some instances it is a case of seeing the splinter vs. seeing the plank. Every team looks sloppy at times. However, I have not seen so much of that since the turnaround later in the season. She has stated several times that height is the priority this off-season for the portal. All of us are speculating, me and you included as to why we don't yet have the height we need. I suspect some of it might be because portal players were still skeptical about Baylor not falling off the ledge because of Mulkey's departure. Hopefully this SS run will do away with some of that trepidation and they will join us. But there may be another reason of which we are not privy.bawitdaball said:
This team, at times, has had immensely sloppy play. They weren't prepared for the first matchup with Kanata, and struggled closing out games, ultimately losing games to Kansas State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma that they should have won. She also either hasn't recruited height, or hasn't been able to close the deal with players that would add height to the roster. You can't win a NC without a true post at the college level. She might want one that can shoot the 3 ball, which is fine, but you have to have height to provide a counter for other teams who do have height when playing defense.
She, and Baylor, benefited from an advantageous draw in the tournament. That is why it is March Madness. Coaches will tell you time and time again, it's about the matchups. That said, the program got over the hump and are playing in the second weekend. With a week to prepare, they can compete with UCS for a shot at the Elite 8.
CNC has made some questionable coaching decisions over the year, and has caused many to raise their hands to question and criticize. Maybe I don't fit into one of your three camps, but this team has looked like a middle school team at times, and looked like a final four contender at times. Once she is able to bring consistency to the floor, she will earn the respect of many.
I agree, she isn't Mulkey. But right now, she also isn't a Vic, Tara, or Dawn. She is likely more in line with Iowa's Lisa Bluder, who will likely be struggling once Clark graduates as she has relied heavily on her for the last four years. She too, struggles to find consistency.
Obviously all my opinion. But your three reasons why people dislike her leaves a ton unsaid. We finished fifth in the Big 12. We lost twice to Iowa State, a team we are far better than and would have won by double digits with a reliable 5 with size. We should have blown a double digit lead with under 90 seconds against West Virginia minus a fluke miscue. Often times fans get too high on a win and too low on a loss. You have to look at the entire resume. And I think very FEW on this board would say she isn't a good coach.
Again, just my opinion.
As far as scratching my head and seeing questionable coaching decisions, I did that dozens of times with Mulkey, even up to her last game here when she let UConn go on a 19-0 run without calling a timeout. Having Didi play until the end of just about every game even in blowouts, not giving Andrews or Jordan Oliver meaningful playing time during conference to prepare them to take over when truly needed. Didi went down and we were not prepared to close out that game and missed out on a FF that we should have had. Every coach makes what fans think are questionable or dumb decisions, but we don't have the advantage of knowing everything that is going on at the time in the game with their personnel. I think most of them get it right where we get it wrong because we are making assumptions or throwing up strawmen.
I think it rather overboard to say the team looked like a "middle school team". These are grown women. Perhaps say looked like a bottom half Big XII team and I wouldn't say a word, but throwing out such metaphors is not being objective and doesn't lend credibility to your analysis, IMO.
I think a lot of it is what one is watching for. If you are watching to find something to criticize you will find plenty with any coach we have ever had. If you are just watching only for the good you will likely overlook weaknesses that are there. I think she is a good coach. I also think we have not seen the best this program can be under her. I also think she also sees every critical negative that we see about the team. But there is no way for me to know the significance she places on each one and the complexities required to be sorted out to correct each one without creating another problem in the process, so I want even speculate.
And just like you......my opinion.
And as for Mulkey - I criticized her tournament decisions often. Felt she was stubborn and dug her heels in. She won conference championships with games to spare, so she got a lot of leeway with the media and fan base, but she was far from perfect and should have had at least two additional NC in her pocket had she done some things that were extremely obvious from the outside looking in.
We take care of the ball and execute the game plan, we often win. Maybe it is the level of talent on the roster right now that prevents the consistency, maybe it is the coaching. Either way, we have a gap that needs to close if we are going to be playing into the third weekend in the near future.
All that to say, I do hope that Jada's growth and progress in the second half of this year gives some transfers, especially Fritz, something to work for. She has adapted to the system and is working well within the offense when she doesn't rush. Hoping she works on her ball handling in the off season. She has the potential to be a real spark.
Yes. I really hope Denae stays. Nicki is starting to play her more. I agree that she could be a spark for us.
i really do believe coach nicki is big on earning your minutes. We saw Jana earn her minutes end of Big 12. If Buggs is not doing right she will put Bella in a lot more and run a lot of small guards. Denae looked a lot more comfortable at VT than she did at say Texas. So we will see if that trend continues!!
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