To West Virginia. Now BU and TCU are alone in 1st place for big 12. We probably need to win out to be champs!
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K Sate goes down
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Last: 8 days ago by tmcats
I got Tcu @ home losing to west Virginia feb 23, and then to us in waco march 2.
This was all easier to understand when we played every conference team twice, but I have a couple of questions about the new system. (I had similar questions last year, but the tie scenarios never played out.)
1. Are we still differentiating between "Conference Champions" and "Conference Tournament Champions?" It seems like, in this new system, the tournament champs should take BE the Conference Champs, but I'm not sure.
2. Assuming regular season champs ARE the camps: In the case of a two-way tie, which we could conceivably be in with TCU even if they beat us again (with a TCU loss to West Virginia,) does head-to-head determine the champ, or would we share the title?
(I am fully aware that we have to beat Colorado first.)
1. Are we still differentiating between "Conference Champions" and "Conference Tournament Champions?" It seems like, in this new system, the tournament champs should take BE the Conference Champs, but I'm not sure.
2. Assuming regular season champs ARE the camps: In the case of a two-way tie, which we could conceivably be in with TCU even if they beat us again (with a TCU loss to West Virginia,) does head-to-head determine the champ, or would we share the title?
(I am fully aware that we have to beat Colorado first.)
Schedules factor in now…but they are what they are. I'm thinking if you are at the top of the standings at the end of conference play..you are the Big 12 Conference Champion. Winning the tournament would be the Big 12 Tournament Champion.
Actually, I believe they consider the tournament champion as the "conference champion" as that gets the automatic NCAA berth. But you will see the term "Regular Season Champion".
Thanks blackie
Thought I had it all figured out. Now I'm just confused. Story of my life
Thought I had it all figured out. Now I'm just confused. Story of my life
The conference champion is the regular season champion. Unless something has changed in the rules, I believe we still do recognize co-champions if the W/L loss record is equal.
Tie breakers in that case do not differentiate who is the "One True Champion" (if you remember that embarrassing debacle), but are instead used to determine seeding of the conference championship. So for instance, if Baylor and TCU end with the same record, we are both champions, but the tie-breaker decides who is the first and second seeds in the tournament.
The conference tournament does not supersede the conference championship as determined by the regular season. The only thing it does is decide which Big XII team has an automatic bid to play in the NCAA tournament. I would say that 19 out of 20 times, this is irrelevant because the team that wins the conference tournament was going to get an at large bid anyway....but in some rare cases a team that was bad all season catches fire and wins three in a row to win the tourney, just to add a little chaos to the NCAA selections. The conference tourneys tend to be more relevant for the mid-majors who are only getting one team in the Big Dance.
Tie breakers in that case do not differentiate who is the "One True Champion" (if you remember that embarrassing debacle), but are instead used to determine seeding of the conference championship. So for instance, if Baylor and TCU end with the same record, we are both champions, but the tie-breaker decides who is the first and second seeds in the tournament.
The conference tournament does not supersede the conference championship as determined by the regular season. The only thing it does is decide which Big XII team has an automatic bid to play in the NCAA tournament. I would say that 19 out of 20 times, this is irrelevant because the team that wins the conference tournament was going to get an at large bid anyway....but in some rare cases a team that was bad all season catches fire and wins three in a row to win the tourney, just to add a little chaos to the NCAA selections. The conference tourneys tend to be more relevant for the mid-majors who are only getting one team in the Big Dance.
I tried finding something that definitely says who is considered the conference champion. I couldn't find anything for the Big XII. I did find several references to the ACC considering the tournament winner as the champion.Bone Squad said:
The conference champion is the regular season champion. Unless something has changed in the rules, I believe we still do recognize co-champions if the W/L loss record is equal.
Tie breakers in that case do not differentiate who is the "One True Champion" (if you remember that embarrassing debacle), but are instead used to determine seeding of the conference championship. So for instance, if Baylor and TCU end with the same record, we are both champions, but the tie-breaker decides who is the first and second seeds in the tournament.
The conference tournament does not supersede the conference championship as determined by the regular season. The only thing it does is decide which Big XII team has an automatic bid to play in the NCAA tournament. I would say that 19 out of 20 times, this is irrelevant because the team that wins the conference tournament was going to get an at large bid anyway....but in some rare cases a team that was bad all season catches fire and wins three in a row to win the tourney, just to add a little chaos to the NCAA selections. The conference tourneys tend to be more relevant for the mid-majors who are only getting one team in the Big Dance.
I don't know if the Big XII would have any different take since we now have unbalanced schedules. But as I said, I couldn't find anything definitive that was other than opinion.
I think it's how it has always been. There are trophies for both regular season and tournament champs. Both are "champs" and regular season can be shared with same records. SEC has done this for years being unbalanced.
This is correct. You can coach for ten years and if you run the table, have 20 conference championships by winning both the regular season and tournament. Technically, the tournament champion is the "conference champion" because that is who gets the automatic bid into the NCAA. But most coaches in the country will say that if they had their pick, a regular season title bears much more weight. And ALL coaches would prefer a season sweep.franke said:
I think it's how it has always been. There are trophies for both regular season and tournament champs. Both are "champs" and regular season can be shared with same records. SEC has done this for years being unbalanced.
Here with my annual reminder that conference championships are pointless money grabs that we should all just do away with. The regular season champ (with any tie-breakers as needed) should get the automatic bid.
Conference tournaments are fun though. If you've never been I definitely recommend it. It's one of the few times you can connect with a ton of different schools and their fans.
While I agree wholeheartedly, part of the fun of March Madness is the fact that anyone can get hot and make it. So the tournament allows every team from every conference to play their way into the Big Dance. Otherwise you'll have teams that are eliminated from contention half way through the conference season, and with the mentality out there these days, some players will choose to sit. So while I have thought they are pointless for over a decade, I understand where they create value, and I will at least acknowledge the role they play in keeping players engaged throughout out the season.Bone Squad said:
Here with my annual reminder that conference championships are pointless money grabs that we should all just do away with. The regular season champ (with any tie-breakers as needed) should get the automatic bid.
I have. A few times as a member of the Courtside Players. Twice as a fan after that. Even got to meet a couple of the posters here.franke said:
Conference tournaments are fun though. If you've never been I definitely recommend it. It's one of the few times you can connect with a ton of different schools and their fans.
Watch out for Utah. They have the easiest closing schedule in the top 6 teams and they are all only separated by one and a 1/2 games.
Did you check the scores before you posted this? Just lost to OSU last night at home.SirBearALot said:
Watch out for Utah. They have the easiest closing schedule in the top 6 teams and they are all only separated by one and a 1/2 games.
geewago said:Did you check the scores before you posted this? Just lost to OSU last night at home.SirBearALot said:
Watch out for Utah. They have the easiest closing schedule in the top 6 teams and they are all only separated by one and a 1/2 games.
OSU spoils again!
Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to. ~ Mark Twain
BUVA said:geewago said:Did you check the scores before you posted this? Just lost to OSU last night at home.SirBearALot said:
Watch out for Utah. They have the easiest closing schedule in the top 6 teams and they are all only separated by one and a 1/2 games.
OSU spoils again!
Ooops
OkSt makes the Utah 2fer roadtrip, loses to a bad BYU 68-64, then turns around and beats a pretty good Utah by the same score.BUVA said:geewago said:Did you check the scores before you posted this? Just lost to OSU last night at home.SirBearALot said:
Watch out for Utah. They have the easiest closing schedule in the top 6 teams and they are all only separated by one and a 1/2 games.
OSU spoils again!
That has been the story of their conference season. One game looks like conference champions and then turns around the next game as a headscratcher.whitetrash said:OkSt makes the Utah 2fer roadtrip, loses to a bad BYU 68-64, then turns around and beats a pretty good Utah by the same score.BUVA said:geewago said:Did you check the scores before you posted this? Just lost to OSU last night at home.SirBearALot said:
Watch out for Utah. They have the easiest closing schedule in the top 6 teams and they are all only separated by one and a 1/2 games.
OSU spoils again!
And would have expected the reverse in timing of won/lost games, given altitude and opponent. Coach Collen said it usually isn't first game at altitude that gets you, but second.
feels like the championship game will ultimately be yours v. the frogs. baylor @ k-state will be a hummer. but even if state pulls the upset, it will come down to baylor beating senona and how the league handles tie breakers or not.Baylorwbbb said:
I got Tcu @ home losing to west Virginia feb 23, and then to us in waco march 2.
Can't quite see how you say KSU winning over Baylor would be an upset. It is a home game for KSU and they have been ranked higher just about all season.tmcats said:feels like the championship game will ultimately be yours v. the frogs. baylor @ k-state will be a hummer. but even if state pulls the upset, it will come down to baylor beating senona and how the league handles tie breakers or not.Baylorwbbb said:
I got Tcu @ home losing to west Virginia feb 23, and then to us in waco march 2.
Correct, wouldn't be an upset.blackie said:Can't quite see how you say KSU winning over Baylor would be an upset. It is a home game for KSU and they have been ranked higher just about all season.tmcats said:feels like the championship game will ultimately be yours v. the frogs. baylor @ k-state will be a hummer. but even if state pulls the upset, it will come down to baylor beating senona and how the league handles tie breakers or not.Baylorwbbb said:
I got Tcu @ home losing to west Virginia feb 23, and then to us in waco march 2.
I'm not quite as dumb as I seem
we will have to see how lee is on her return v. ku saturday. without her, i fully disagree with this narrative that k-state beating baylor would not be an upset. if she's up to snuff, then yes, k-state/baylor is a pick 'em to my way of thinking. i'm guessing baylor handles tcu in waco the following sunday. sure hope so.MrGolfguy said:Correct, wouldn't be an upset.blackie said:Can't quite see how you say KSU winning over Baylor would be an upset. It is a home game for KSU and they have been ranked higher just about all season.tmcats said:feels like the championship game will ultimately be yours v. the frogs. baylor @ k-state will be a hummer. but even if state pulls the upset, it will come down to baylor beating senona and how the league handles tie breakers or not.Baylorwbbb said:
I got Tcu @ home losing to west Virginia feb 23, and then to us in waco march 2.
Plus we are not likely to have our best player (Buggs) for any of the final three games and maybe not Ben the Big 12 tournament
I looked at the KSU box score today and Lee only played five minutes. Any idea why?
she was obviously hurting. not a good look. i don't think it mattered that ku was awful. she wouldn't have played much if they were baylor or tcu. we'll have to see what comes of it monday night as i'm sure coach mittie alluded to in his presser. disappointing for cat fans and certainly for lee.GarlandBear84 said:
I looked at the KSU box score today and Lee only played five minutes. Any idea why?
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