IowaBear said:

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This is why it's dumb for the WNBA to keep expanding. The viewership and cash income are driven really by 1pkYer. The WNBA already saw the negatives of that 1 player getting hurt. What happens when she retires and the viewership numbers absolutely tank. I get capitalizing on your cash cow. But long term league expansion is likely to be an abject failure

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Although ratings dropped for games after Clark's injury, they still remained much stronger than before she entered the league. I suspect history will tell the story that she was the spark that caused people to be interested in the game, and many fans will have stuck around because of other players they became fans of.

I don't remember the exact numbers but didn't viewership drop by like 40%? Ticket sales also tanked. Viewership is up overall despite her being hurt. But that's not saying much when you consider the numbers before her arrival in the league. I'm not sure that justifies adding what 5 new teams total the next few years.

Game 1 of championship series tonight at 7pm on espn,Phoenix at Las Vegas.The Aces have the home court advantage and are favored to win the series.

Adding teams is about adding markets, thus adding viewers/fans. If Oklahoma City adds a team, a whole new market emerges. As long as expansion is incremental, it is a strong strategy. Cities are actually competing to get a franchise and owners are now paying millions to gain a spot. All looking good except infighting by excessive player expectations.

fredbear said:

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Adding teams is about adding markets, thus adding viewers/fans. If Oklahoma City adds a team, a whole new market emerges. As long as expansion is incremental, it is a strong strategy. Cities are actually competing to get a franchise and owners are now paying millions to gain a spot. All looking good except infighting by excessive player expectations.

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Exactly. The Valkyries sold out all their games this year, and Caitlin Clark was only on the court for two of them.

Liking the product is great.

But let's not forget objectively verifiable facts: since its inception only one team for one season didn't lose money.
Without NBA financially propping up the WNBA, it folds. And not close.

It isn't close to being a standalone financially viable venture.

If Disney ever decides to stop gifting broadcast dollars disproportionate to viewership, that choice nukes the WNBA as much as a NBA pullout would. Again, not close.

The player demands are simply destabilizing the venture further. Sad but true.

AP

Not disagreeing with the financials. They are getting better, but not nearly as quickly as players are demanding cash. Watched the 1st championship game tonight with game going down to the final shot after a very physical contest. The product is improving, and the arenas have butts in seats (full crowd tonight). But the players disrespect for what seems to be a very effective leader is ridiculous. If they run her off, they will regret it. She got the charter planes and best tv deal possible, but they want MORE. They can have more if they create more value. It is truly up to them. There is not greedy miser hiding the bag of gold.

And given NBA salaries and profits, I dare say it is not going to hurt their league one iota to build interest in the broader game by promoting the WNBA with a very meager piece of their gigantic pie,12 BILLION . They have so much money, they are paying insane salaries.
And Let's not forget the NBA started the WNBA and still holds 42 percent of ownership as a whole and 60 percent when you take into account the WNBA teams owned by NBA owners. Thus, it is not a benevolent third part donation, but an "us deal" compared to "we and they." The WNBA has always been driven by NBA vision and ownership. The NBA wanted to showcase women's basketball talent. A noble goal.

fredbear said:

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AP

Not disagreeing with the financials. They are getting better, but not nearly as quickly as players are demanding cash. Watched the 1st championship game tonight with game going down to the final shot after a very physical contest. The product is improving, and the arenas have butts in seats (full crowd tonight). But the players disrespect for what seems to be a very effective leader is ridiculous. If they run her off, they will regret it. She got the charter planes and best tv deal possible, but they want MORE. They can have more if they create more value. It is truly up to them. There is not greedy miser hiding the bag of gold.

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The league has three revenue sources:

1) NBA charity
2) TV contract (which is Disney charity - way above market value)
3) ticket sales

merchandising is effectively nothing.

WNBA growing their way to independence is amusing at this point. Take away the charity dollars and they would need another 20-30 years of decent growth simply to reach break even. And that would only be achievable with expenses flatlining.

the likelihood of the players destroying the goodwill behind the charity seems far higher than them creating more revenue. They can't even stop making crazy expense demands.

Not NBA charity, see above. The NBA started the WNBA.

fredbear said:

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Not NBA charity, see above. The NBA started the WNBA.

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When you give money for no value that equals charity in most people's minds.

AP,

I think there is value beyond making a ROI. The NBA started, has ownership in, and promotes the WNBA in order to generate interest in the broader sport of basketball. There are fans whose primary love for basketball is the result of the W. So making money? No. Creating basketball value? For sure. Just my opinion.

Returning to Bears in the playoffs,Aces win the first game (on their home court).Smith scored 4 points and got 6 rebounds in 16 minutes for Vegas..The bench came up big.Brown did not play for Phoenix.

Smith got in early foul trouble. Thus, limited minutes. Missed 4 free throws in a row down the stretch. Not her best night.

fredbear said:

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AP,

I think there is value beyond making a ROI. The NBA started, has ownership in, and promotes the WNBA in order to generate interest in the broader sport of basketball. There are fans whose primary love for basketball is the result of the W. So making money? No. Creating basketball value? For sure. Just my opinion.

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We aren't absolutely disagreeing.

it is a luxury spend. Ultimately the bucket of discretionary dollars dries up somewhat and luxury spends get quietly shelved and dollars redirected at core needs.

the NBA (with its rapidly escalating salaries) will at some point exceed its ability to grow at the pace necessary to continue carrying that luxury spend. Same for Disney. Then the WNBA crumbles.

Always appreciate your knowledge AP. I hope you are not a prophet on this one. Lot's of great American wbb players who need a home, and we need their development for future Olympic medals. I think it would be tough to withdraw the minor dollars (minor compared to their revenue of 12 Bill) without social media repercussions. These ladies, if anything, are loud and proud. I may not agree with their expectations but would not want to be on the other end of withdrawing meager support. And NBA owners and W.N.B.A. owners have overlap. Time will tell. And by then we both will have forgotten this exchange. lol.

Aces win #2. NaLyssa started and played 21 minutes, scored 3 points, 5 rebounds; Kalani came off bench for 4 minutes, scored 2.

Game 3 in best-of-seven series set for Wed, Oct. 8, 7pm CT on ESPN. First year for 7 game series.

Hoping lyss can have a great game in either of the next two games to be able too at least say she played a impactful part in her team winning.

Aces hold on to win game three in Phoenix to take a 3-0 lead.Smith scored 2 point and grabbed 7 rebounds in 17 minutes.She was in foul trouble much of the game.Brown did not play for Phoenix.

Aces can win the championship tonight with a sweep, 7pm CT on ESPN.

It's a sweep! Aces win 3rd championship in 4 years. Kalani played 18 minutes, scored 10. NaLyssa scored 5 in 23 minutes.

BUVA said:

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It's a sweep! Aces win 3rd championship in 4 years. Kalani played 18 minutes, scored 10. NaLyssa scored 5 in 23 minutes.

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I loved it when Smith was trying to guard Brown in the lane.Brown pushed Lyssa completely out of the paint drawing an offensive foul.I thought Brown looked good.But,Smith has the better teammates and gets a WNBA ring to go with her NCAA ring.

Task Force 2015 said:

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BUVA said:

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It's a sweep! Aces win 3rd championship in 4 years. Kalani played 18 minutes, scored 10. NaLyssa scored 5 in 23 minutes.

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I loved it when Smith was trying to guard Brown in the lane.Brown pushed Lyssa completely out of the paint drawing an offensive foul.I thought Brown looked good.But,Smith has the better teammates and gets a WNBA ring to go with her NCAA ring.

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I saw that! Like, "Remember when you were a freshman trying to guard me in practice? Nothing's changed. Get outta my way!" and then Kalani just place a forearm in Lys's chest and shoved her clear across the lane. Brown had a disgusted look on her face afterwards, and I couldn't decide if that was result of picking up her offensive foul or her irritation with Smith's defense.

Chibears2 said:

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Task Force 2015 said:

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BUVA said:

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It's a sweep! Aces win 3rd championship in 4 years. Kalani played 18 minutes, scored 10. NaLyssa scored 5 in 23 minutes.

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I loved it when Smith was trying to guard Brown in the lane.Brown pushed Lyssa completely out of the paint drawing an offensive foul.I thought Brown looked good.But,Smith has the better teammates and gets a WNBA ring to go with her NCAA ring.

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I saw that! Like, "Remember when you were a freshman trying to guard me in practice? Nothing's changed. Get outta my way!" and then Kalani just place a forearm in Lys's chest and shoved her clear across the lane. Brown had a disgusted look on her face afterwards, and I couldn't decide if that was result of picking up her offensive foul or her irritation with Smith's defense.

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You expressed exactly what I was thinking!Brown was remembering that she was the star senior low post while Smith was merely a talented college rookie.Good times.