Tired of mbb and wbb blowouts against jr. high teams. This whole play the weakest teams you can find has to be corrected. I appreciate that our wbb team did schedule a few real opponents, but across the board, these 40 point wins are worthless. I understand three or so games, but this slaughter gauntlet has been endless. Look at our men yesterday. Sixty point win against Arlington Baptist??? And LSU wbb played one real opponent in early season. They literally won one game 115 to 26! What is going on? Pad the win stats to make sure you make the tournament? N.C.A.A. is worthless, or perhaps they could devalue such wins to 1/3 of a win to pressure the end of carnage. And such games foster injury as players dive for meaningless loose balls when the team is up by 30. Don't know why, but this trend seemed worse to me this year. This is NOT about KM anymore than it is Scott D. or Geno. No one wants to buy a ticket to a slaughter game. Period. Stop it on future schedules! Three warm up games and then off to the real opponents in real conferences.

BUVA said:

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These "carnage" games against P4 schools help fund many of the smaller programs. The Southern coach once said they make lots of $ getting smacked in non-con to fund the basketball programs, then they proceed to do well in their conference. Does anyone know how much these teams get paid? I agree there shouldn't be as many, and also increases opportunity for injuries on both sides. They certainly aren't any fun to watch.

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Yes. A lot of these smaller programs build their athletic budget by going to a P4 (and getting killed). This happens in football mainly but apparently also in basketball. With that money they build their programs. For basketball if you can win your conference, you go to the big dance and that's the payoff for the players (and the school). Also the players at small schools can showcase their skills against tougher competition and jump into the portal if they believe they are good enough.

I did an AI dive

For college basketball guarantee (buy) games, here's what the data shows:

Typical Payouts for Small Schools

• These are usually non-conference away games and feature five- or sometimes six-figure payouts for the visiting schooloften between $50,000 and $100,000+. [url=https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/investigating-college-basketball-buy-games/][athleticdi...ectoru.com][/url], [url=https://herosports.com/cbb-basketball-scheduling-economics-buy-games-mtes-and-march-madness-ksks/][herosports.com][/url]
• For instance, Evansville (DI mid-major) earned $90,000 for playing at Kentucky. [url=https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/investigating-college-basketball-buy-games/][athleticdi...ectoru.com][/url]

Division II vs Power Five

• Division II schools (like Arlington Baptist) generally receive less than DI mid-majors. So expect payouts in the $30,000$75,000 range, possibly below $50,000, though specific figures aren't often public.
• No exact number exists for Arlington Baptist vs Baylor, but similar small-school games typically fall in this range.

Summary Table
Opponent's Level
Typical Payout
DI mid-major (vs P5)
$50,000 $100,000+
DII (vs P5)
Likely $30,000 $75,000 (possibly $50,000)

Final Insight
Arlington Baptist probably received a low to mid five-figure guaranteesomewhere around $30K to $75K, most likely $40K$60K. Exact figures are generally not disclosed publicly.

FWIW, I agree not as fun to watch. It's almost like charity for these smaller schools. I would presume the numbers would be even smaller for WBB, but probably still a little something.

fredbear said:

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Tired of mbb and wbb blowouts against jr. high teams. This whole play the weakest teams you can find has to be corrected. I appreciate that our wbb team did schedule a few real opponents, but across the board, these 40 point wins are worthless. I understand three or so games, but this slaughter gauntlet has been endless. Look at our men yesterday. Sixty point win against Arlington Baptist??? And LSU wbb played one real opponent in early season. They literally won one game 115 to 26! What is going on? Pad the win stats to make sure you make the tournament? N.C.A.A. is worthless, or perhaps they could devalue such wins to 1/3 of a win to pressure the end of carnage. And such games foster injury as players dive for meaningless loose balls when the team is up by 30. Don't know why, but this trend seemed worse to me this year. This is NOT about KM anymore than it is Scott D. or Geno. No one wants to buy a ticket to a slaughter game. Period. Stop it on future schedules! Three warm up games and then off to the real opponents in real conferences.

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Top tier teams constantly balance keeping their SOS high by seeking Q2 and Q3 level teams for Buy Games vs. budget limitations. Ultimately the money pile is only so high and some Q4 games become inevitable.

I dont think it is BU's responsibility to fund lower teir athletic budgets, nor do i think BU or any other school schedules slaughter games for benevolent reasons. They schedule them because they win. And the sure win against a nobody seems more attractive than the possible
Loss against a somebody. And the SOS attraction is less magnetic than the W. Look at LSU. Conference play will take care of SOS, so schedule weaklings.

fredbear said:

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I dont think it is BU's responsibility to fund lower teir athletic budgets, nor do i think BU or any other school schedules slaughter games for benevolent reasons. They schedule them because they win. And the sure win against a nobody seems more attractive than the possible
Loss against a somebody. And the SOS attraction is less magnetic than the W. Look at LSU. Conference play will take care of SOS, so schedule weaklings.

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Baylor doesn't determine the market rate. Like every other team we have to pay market rates to attract opponents.

SOS being only about conference simply doesn't fly. That is why the SOS of B12 teams vary so much.
Recent Historical example: https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2024/sos-rpi
Look at the variance among B12 teams.

I think Scott Drew summed it up during his pre Arlington Baptist presser. A good game to work on some things, get the rust off, and the players would much rather play a game to do that than each other. For what that's worth.

To add to BUatbirth, I wonder if Texas thought the same when they beat us 89 to 54? A good game to work on some things, get the rust off.

Fyi the mbb game vs Arlington baptist is an exhibition. It counts for wins but has no impact on tournament nor team metrics

AP I was not suggesting that BU determines market rates, I was responding to the line of thought that BU owes it to the Missouri Bible colleges of the world to schedule them to allow such entities to build up their athletic budget. Our goal is not to make certain Wahala girls school makes $50,000 per game. Our goal should be the increase SOS by playing reasonably talented opponents. You don't want to play UT or SC every week, but the 60 point wins in mbb or wbb are not meaningful to the winner nor the loser. And yes, that is my argument, SOS warrants playing good opponents out of conference. Three bunny teams, then get real. In fact, wouldn't BU save money by scheduling SMU 2 years in a row with each team being a home team on one game. Each team just pays minimal travel costs for a bus up or down I35. Then you have 50,000 more available for NIL. Perhaps the selection committees are guilty of counting wins over SOS as you often hear 21 wins (or whatever ) and your in the tournament. So some coaches schedule sure wins to pad their count. Tech has one quality win thanks to us blowing the game. But their other wins are not notable. One win over a fairly good opponent accompanied by a bunch of bunny wins got them immediately ranked. Coaches do the gimmie games because it works. Despite all the tools and metrics, the system, at the end of the day, favors wins. Look at college football playoff selection that put 2 incapable teams in the 12 and snubbed a talented BYU. The rules did not demand they put in 2 bunnies.

Very informative. Thank you. I do find it hard to believe, however, that concessions are that helpful at the "no one attends" bunny games. I see maybe 400 people in the arena. How much popcorn and coke can they consume? There are expenses in security, ticket takers, concession employees, custodial costs etc. I bet a hard analysis of these low revenue, cheap ticket games is a loss, especially if you are paying D3 school 70,000 to show up. Not sure home games of this empty seat nature, or 5,000 free elementary school kids are big money makers. Probably lose money.

fredbear said:

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Very informative. Thank you. I do find it hard to believe, however, that concessions are that helpful at the "no one attends" bunny games. I see maybe 400 people in the arena. How much popcorn and coke can they consume? There are expenses in security, ticket takers, concession employees, custodial costs etc. I bet a hard analysis of these low revenue, cheap ticket games is a loss, especially if you are paying D3 school 70,000 to show up. Not sure home games of this empty seat nature, or 5,000 free elementary school kids are big money makers. Probably lose money.

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The really bad games aren't paid anywhere near $70,000. In MBB they are paid about $30,000. WBB rate will be lower.
And you are forgetting season tickets. 3000 season ticket holders paying an average of $15 per ticket for those bad games (even the children yell game) = $45,000.

Also haven't mentioned parking which is a huge revenue source (especially when tacked onto season ticket sales).

Bad games at home make money if the team has decent season ticket sales.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

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fredbear said:

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Very informative. Thank you. I do find it hard to believe, however, that concessions are that helpful at the "no one attends" bunny games. I see maybe 400 people in the arena. How much popcorn and coke can they consume? There are expenses in security, ticket takers, concession employees, custodial costs etc. I bet a hard analysis of these low revenue, cheap ticket games is a loss, especially if you are paying D3 school 70,000 to show up. Not sure home games of this empty seat nature, or 5,000 free elementary school kids are big money makers. Probably lose money.

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The really bad games aren't paid anywhere near $70,000. In MBB they are paid about $30,000. WBB rate will be lower.
And you are forgetting season tickets. 3000 season ticket holders paying an average of $15 per ticket for those bad games (even the children yell game) = $45,000.

Also haven't mentioned parking which is a huge revenue source (especially when tacked onto season ticket sales).

Bad games at home make money if the team has decent season ticket sales.

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1. Season ticket holders did not pay for the future bears games this year as they were not included in szn ticket package
2. Parking is not sold for basketball for single game and is only available for purchase in a very limited amount starting this season for those donating above a specified level for the entire season. So parking revenue is essentially non-existent for our mbb and wbb programs

T-REX said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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fredbear said:

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Very informative. Thank you. I do find it hard to believe, however, that concessions are that helpful at the "no one attends" bunny games. I see maybe 400 people in the arena. How much popcorn and coke can they consume? There are expenses in security, ticket takers, concession employees, custodial costs etc. I bet a hard analysis of these low revenue, cheap ticket games is a loss, especially if you are paying D3 school 70,000 to show up. Not sure home games of this empty seat nature, or 5,000 free elementary school kids are big money makers. Probably lose money.

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The really bad games aren't paid anywhere near $70,000. In MBB they are paid about $30,000. WBB rate will be lower.
And you are forgetting season tickets. 3000 season ticket holders paying an average of $15 per ticket for those bad games (even the children yell game) = $45,000.

Also haven't mentioned parking which is a huge revenue source (especially when tacked onto season ticket sales).

Bad games at home make money if the team has decent season ticket sales.

---

1. Season ticket holders did not pay for the future bears games this year as they were not included in szn ticket package
2. Parking is not sold for basketball for single game and is only available for purchase in a very limited amount starting this season for those donating above a specified level for the entire season. So parking revenue is essentially non-existent for our mbb and wbb programs

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And Captain Costume appears.

1. Pointing to an exception doesn't undo a rule.
2. Irrelevant as the discussion was about season ticket revenue.

We will loop back to you when we discuss aberrant behavior or weird costumes.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

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T-REX said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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fredbear said:

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Very informative. Thank you. I do find it hard to believe, however, that concessions are that helpful at the "no one attends" bunny games. I see maybe 400 people in the arena. How much popcorn and coke can they consume? There are expenses in security, ticket takers, concession employees, custodial costs etc. I bet a hard analysis of these low revenue, cheap ticket games is a loss, especially if you are paying D3 school 70,000 to show up. Not sure home games of this empty seat nature, or 5,000 free elementary school kids are big money makers. Probably lose money.

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The really bad games aren't paid anywhere near $70,000. In MBB they are paid about $30,000. WBB rate will be lower.
And you are forgetting season tickets. 3000 season ticket holders paying an average of $15 per ticket for those bad games (even the children yell game) = $45,000.

Also haven't mentioned parking which is a huge revenue source (especially when tacked onto season ticket sales).

Bad games at home make money if the team has decent season ticket sales.

---

1. Season ticket holders did not pay for the future bears games this year as they were not included in szn ticket package
2. Parking is not sold for basketball for single game and is only available for purchase in a very limited amount starting this season for those donating above a specified level for the entire season. So parking revenue is essentially non-existent for our mbb and wbb programs

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And Captain Costume appears.

1. Pointing to an exception doesn't undo a rule.
2. Irrelevant as the discussion was about season ticket revenue.

We will loop back to you when we discuss aberrant behavior or weird costumes.

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what? We are discussing small time games and how it might affect revenue at baylor. You listed 2 things that would effect revenue.

I clarified that neither do at baylor which is the entire subject. The future bears games do not make season ticket revenue because they weren't included in the season ticket package and if u are a szn ticket holder and wanted a ticket, you got them for FREE. So u cant allocate a portion of szn ticket cost to that game. And parking is included with season tickets if u give at a certain level, and they do not sell parking unless you donate a high enough level and that was very few spots. Otherwise parking is 100% free. So it does not bring in revenue either with season tickets. Just like it doesnt for football because we dont charge to get parking.

Now once you realize you are wrong, something you never admit, you still need to go Pologize for having zero understanding of euro league bball in the other thread where you quadrupled down on being wrong.


It's hilarious how you think you are the all knowing being around here simply because you got a couple things right about realignment. Too bad everything else you post is nonsense

Bunny games have zero impact on season ticket sales or prices. 3 times as many people would show up to watch us play SMU as Bulawayo bible college. Yes, we lose hosting one game next year, but little revenue, if any, is lost, and you sale 3 times as many hotdogs on a meaningful game. Bottom line, coaches are counting wins above all else. SOS is apparently a very distant factor or these slaughter games would not exist. But they do exist, so winning is king, especially by 40 points. LSU had only one meaningful pre conference game. ONE. LSU is playing the formula of wins over SOS and relying on conference games to bring up SOS. Does anyone enjoy these gimmie games past first 30 days? No one.

fredbear said:

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Bunny games have zero impact on season ticket sales or prices. 3 times as many people would show up to watch us play SMU as Bulawayo bible college. Yes, we lose hosting one game next year, but little revenue, if any, is lost, and you sale 3 times as many hotdogs on a meaningful game. Bottom line, coaches are counting wins above all else. SOS is apparently a very distant factor or these slaughter games would not exist. But they do exist, so winning is king, especially by 40 points. LSU had only one meaningful pre conference game. ONE. LSU is playing the formula of wins over SOS and relying on conference games to bring up SOS. Does anyone enjoy these gimmie games past first 30 days? No one.

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Season ticket sales don't reflect the number of games?

try to sell that idea at the market.

Market already spoken about these silly contests. Practically empty arena unless you bring school children to scream ). Market has NO interests.

fredbear said:

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Market already spoken about these silly contests. Practically empty arena unless you bring school children to scream ). Market has NO interests.

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that game is sheduled at 11am on a week day so school kids can go. Otherwise it wouldn't be an 11am midweek game and more fans would attend as proven by all our other non con games which arent empty

Glad they have that game for the kids. Fun

Update. LSU did play a real opponent in Kentucky yesterday and lost. I do not care for the Kentucky coach at all. But maybe this is exactly why the rest of the nonconf schedule was cupcakes. You win. LSU no longer undefeated.

That coach has done the same thing for 20 years. Playing cupcakes or not isn't why they lost. They got crushed on the boards by like 20. Kentucky I believe is either the tallest or 2nd tallest team in the country. And yet it still took a 3 with 1 second for them to beat LSu. If LSu loses Sunday at Vandy then maybe you could argue they should have played a better non conference schedule. But 20 years of data shows it hasn't mattered as far as said coaches post season success.
You have a weird infatuation with bringing the coach we dare not speak of up so often

My apologies. I don't care for Louisville coach. Walz. Never mean to offend you, Iowabear, just talking wbb and cupcake non conference schedules. I just happen to follow top teams, and their schedules, and
LSU fits that category of top team with cupcake schedule. Texas does not fit, they played SC. SC does not fit they played Texas. UConn has and will play highly ranked non conference schedule in part, (Several ranked teams among cupcakes). Which examples would you have preferred I used? BU and LSU both fit the category of ranked teams avoiding worthy opponents. So they seemed to fit. Where did I miss it? I started this thread to discuss exactly that topic. You could have avoided or ignored it if you found easy offense. Or show me where my logic is off? It was never my intent to upset you or make it personal or about any coach. Both the BU coach And LSU coach seem to avoid significant games. Duke is our one exception.

You're not offending me whatsoever.
I do however want to point out the sheer hypocrisy. You were without a shadow of a doubt one of a handful who cried foul every time Mulkey was brought up the first 3 ish years after she left. Ironically you're one of several who continue to bring her up (when it can be used as a negative)
But rest assured if she's brought up in a positive light you will complain about it. I just for the life of me can't understand why so many still feel the need to complain about her. Baylor woman's basketball hasn't exactly been lighting things on fire since her departure
Also there's plenty of other examples. Iowa st? Vanderbilt? Kentucky? TCU?

LSU coach was not the topic of the thread. BU was equally discussed. Just dont see why you sre trying to derail the thread. Maybe you misunderstood or put your on agenda on the thread. If you want a KM thread please start elsewhere. This is not the topic. LSU and BU were best examples. Would love for you to share others. No offense intended.

I didn't misunderstand anything. Just pointing out how hypocritical you are when it comes what can/cannot be posted on here regarding Mulkey. And I just gave you 4 really good examples. Furthers my point that you're just obsessed with using Mulkey in any negative light possible . I fint start it bring Mulkey into threads. That'd done by those who constantly ***** about her. Don't worry you aren't alone there

Thank you for the other examples. That was our
Only topic. Might add Texas Texh to the list since they are now ranked. Have agood evening

TT is another example. Nebraska is another example. Oklahoma St as well. Georgia. I could go on and on. Playing cupcakes in the non con is a huge part of what most programs do.
UConn has to schedule a tough non con because their entire conference is a cupcake

Fredbear, you know UK and Louisville are different schools, right? UK coach came from Va. Tech I think last year. His name is not Walz. And BU played Duke, Iowa AND Texas THIS year. Cupcakes????

Yes I know they are two different schools. I just
had Walz at Kentucky in my mind. But he is a cardinal

Texas is not cupcake. And it is not our fault Duke turned into a dud. Iowa solid of course.

LSU's tough week may, in part, be related to their cupcake schedule. Duke was their only real opponent , and also not their fault Duke was a dud. Lsu lost both real games this week. Hard to gear up to top twenty length and speed when you been playing Missouri Bible College

Duke just beat Notre Dame, so there's still signs of life.