ShooterTX said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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No convictions.

I have a sweet Harley Heritage. Its my 3rd and last Harley. My wrench invited me to ride with some his buddies a few times. Good times.

Twin Peaks was a set up. The police were shooting fish in a barrel.

PS Shooter I can hook you up with a few of the local Boozefighters if you really want to run them out of town

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I doubt your local Boozefighters are on the same level as the Banditos and Cossacks.

I was talking about real motorcycle gangs, not wannabe clubs.

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Boozefighters align with Banditos. Cossacks are related to Hells Angels.

You are pretty easily impressed. Police were outside shooting in. They used semiautomatic weapons on largely unarmed innocent American citizens. A few bikers had pistols. Ohers had chains, knives etc. No bikers were convicted. 9 bikers killed in the ambush and no policemen were injured. So I guess it was a 9-0 victory for the ambushers. Go team.

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First shot by a biker. Next weapon drawn by a biker. This doesn't sound like an ambush.

Waco PD knew for weeks and weeks that trouble was brewing on Biker Nights and had tried to get TP to cancel those events. TP management thought the heavy police presence was bad for business on biker nights and wanted Waco PD off the premises for those events.

When the Sunday event occurred the situation was ripe for violence. When the violence happened, Waco PD ended it.

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But did they need to end it by killing 9 men?

Along with wounding 18 others and arresting 177 individuals?

That seems excessive as hell.

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Pretty sure the Waco PD killed 7 and the bikers killed the other 2. If memory serves, one guy had his throat cut and another had stab wounds to the chest and neck.

Most of the injuries were from bikers, not cops. Lots of stab wounds... and cops don't use knives.

But hey... there was no need for deadly force, right?

Go watch the videos from the security cameras. I've seen them. It was a massive brawl that turned into a shootout. Very lucky that the cops stopped it with only a few dead, and no innocent people injured.

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I've watched some of the videos, probably all but can't say for sure, and innocent people were injured. Also injured were presumed innocent people.

Today a Peace Officer Memorial service was held in Waco. Lots of legit comments about protecting the public, defending the defenseless. At TP that simply did not happen. What happened was that some lives were devalued because some bikers have engaged in criminal activity. That was wrong.

cowboycwr said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

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Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

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I don't see anyone calling them squad automatic weapons... just you calling them semiautomatic so I thought I would point out the fact that most guns are, including the ones you probably use.

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https://www.gq.com/story/untold-story-texas-biker-gang-shoot-out

https://brobible.com/life/article/texas-biker-brawl-waco-story/

There are other links. Others have said they were M 16's which have automatic capabilities but the chief of police assured the reporter none of them were set on automatic.

ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

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Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

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Again, watch the video.
What you described here did NOT happen.
You can clearly see on the video that they were shooting at each other... not into the ground or ceiling. You can also clearly see that multiple shots were fired before the cops started shooting.
The cops that shot the bikers were using rifles with scopes, and shot from a distance.
The cops that eventually approached on foot did not shoot. The shooting was over before the cops moved in... the snipers took out all of the bikers that were shooting.
Also in the video, you can clearly see a biker walk over to a few of the bikers on the ground, and shoot them on the ground... and then a sniper round hits him in the head.

Again, watch the security footage before you make crazy claims about police ambush or mis use of lethal force.

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This is generally correct from my viewing of the videos. Did some innocent people get shot? Probably. By cops? Entirely possible. But once a fight like that erupts in a public place, if you think cops are going to be able to perfectly mete out justice while ending the fracas, you're just naive. The public firefight will be stopped, bodies will hit the floor, and the lawyers will sort it out later. Abel Reyne did a particularly terrible job in this regard.

Robert Wilson said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

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Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

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Again, watch the video.
What you described here did NOT happen.
You can clearly see on the video that they were shooting at each other... not into the ground or ceiling. You can also clearly see that multiple shots were fired before the cops started shooting.
The cops that shot the bikers were using rifles with scopes, and shot from a distance.
The cops that eventually approached on foot did not shoot. The shooting was over before the cops moved in... the snipers took out all of the bikers that were shooting.
Also in the video, you can clearly see a biker walk over to a few of the bikers on the ground, and shoot them on the ground... and then a sniper round hits him in the head.

Again, watch the security footage before you make crazy claims about police ambush or mis use of lethal force.

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This is generally correct from my viewing of the videos. Did some innocent people get shot? Probably. By cops? Entirely possible. But once a fight like that erupts in a public place, if you think cops are going to be able to perfectly mete out justice while ending the fracas, you're just naive. The public firefight will be stopped, bodies will hit the floor, and the lawyers will sort it out later. Abel Reyne did a particularly terrible job in this regard.

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As a follow-up...

I searched last night for those videos I saw a few years ago... and they are gone. The only thing I could find anywhere online are just a few clips of the security footage, and one complete file of the hidden surveillance footage from the parking lot view.

A few years ago, I was able to find and watch the entire security camera footage, from all of the security cameras at the Twin Peaks. I also watched the complete crime scene video, which had been leaked after the case was over. Now all that footage is gone. Very, very odd.

I know that the footage was very graphic, but it was also very important to understand the situation. There were a LOT of guys with guns that day. Not all of them fired shots, but there were a ton of guns. More important than that was the use of knives and other weapons.... there were knives, brass knuckles, chains, metal clubs... it was about to become a much bigger blood bath than people realize. In the crime scene video, you could see the number of guys who had been shot vs the number of guys who had been killed with knives. You could also clearly see the dead bodies with guns in their hands or near their bodies.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that all that video evidence is now missing... but I still am.

Robert Wilson said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

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Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

---

Again, watch the video.
What you described here did NOT happen.
You can clearly see on the video that they were shooting at each other... not into the ground or ceiling. You can also clearly see that multiple shots were fired before the cops started shooting.
The cops that shot the bikers were using rifles with scopes, and shot from a distance.
The cops that eventually approached on foot did not shoot. The shooting was over before the cops moved in... the snipers took out all of the bikers that were shooting.
Also in the video, you can clearly see a biker walk over to a few of the bikers on the ground, and shoot them on the ground... and then a sniper round hits him in the head.

Again, watch the security footage before you make crazy claims about police ambush or mis use of lethal force.

---

This is generally correct from my viewing of the videos. Did some innocent people get shot? Probably. By cops? Entirely possible. But once a fight like that erupts in a public place, if you think cops are going to be able to perfectly mete out justice while ending the fracas, you're just naive. The public firefight will be stopped, bodies will hit the floor, and the lawyers will sort it out later. Abel Reyne did a particularly terrible job in this regard.

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The lawyers sorted it out. No convictions of any of the bikers or bystanders that were arrested.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/04/03/biker-shootout-texas-twin-peaks/

The county spent millions of dollars and could not get a single conviction.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

---

Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

---

Again, watch the video.
What you described here did NOT happen.
You can clearly see on the video that they were shooting at each other... not into the ground or ceiling. You can also clearly see that multiple shots were fired before the cops started shooting.
The cops that shot the bikers were using rifles with scopes, and shot from a distance.
The cops that eventually approached on foot did not shoot. The shooting was over before the cops moved in... the snipers took out all of the bikers that were shooting.
Also in the video, you can clearly see a biker walk over to a few of the bikers on the ground, and shoot them on the ground... and then a sniper round hits him in the head.

Again, watch the security footage before you make crazy claims about police ambush or mis use of lethal force.

---

This is generally correct from my viewing of the videos. Did some innocent people get shot? Probably. By cops? Entirely possible. But once a fight like that erupts in a public place, if you think cops are going to be able to perfectly mete out justice while ending the fracas, you're just naive. The public firefight will be stopped, bodies will hit the floor, and the lawyers will sort it out later. Abel Reyne did a particularly terrible job in this regard.

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The lawyers sorted it out. No convictions of any of the bikers or bystanders that were arrested.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/04/03/biker-shootout-texas-twin-peaks/

The county spent millions of dollars and could not get a single conviction.

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Indeed. Seems I lead with that way up near the top of the thread. Is that because zero crimes were committed? Or because Abel Reyna couldn't find his ass with both hands and a compass?

Robert Wilson said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

---

Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

---

Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

---

Again, watch the video.
What you described here did NOT happen.
You can clearly see on the video that they were shooting at each other... not into the ground or ceiling. You can also clearly see that multiple shots were fired before the cops started shooting.
The cops that shot the bikers were using rifles with scopes, and shot from a distance.
The cops that eventually approached on foot did not shoot. The shooting was over before the cops moved in... the snipers took out all of the bikers that were shooting.
Also in the video, you can clearly see a biker walk over to a few of the bikers on the ground, and shoot them on the ground... and then a sniper round hits him in the head.

Again, watch the security footage before you make crazy claims about police ambush or mis use of lethal force.

---

This is generally correct from my viewing of the videos. Did some innocent people get shot? Probably. By cops? Entirely possible. But once a fight like that erupts in a public place, if you think cops are going to be able to perfectly mete out justice while ending the fracas, you're just naive. The public firefight will be stopped, bodies will hit the floor, and the lawyers will sort it out later. Abel Reyne did a particularly terrible job in this regard.

---

The lawyers sorted it out. No convictions of any of the bikers or bystanders that were arrested.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/04/03/biker-shootout-texas-twin-peaks/

The county spent millions of dollars and could not get a single conviction.

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Indeed. Seems I lead with that way up near the top of the thread. Is that because zero crimes were committed? Or because Abel Reyna couldn't find his ass with both hands and a compass?

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Sorry Mr Wilson. I know you mentioned it but it a big point i i think. Imo its a combo of both. Waco arrested around 177 based on location and appearance. Some of the bikers should have been convicted. Most were innocent

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

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Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

---

Again, watch the video.
What you described here did NOT happen.
You can clearly see on the video that they were shooting at each other... not into the ground or ceiling. You can also clearly see that multiple shots were fired before the cops started shooting.
The cops that shot the bikers were using rifles with scopes, and shot from a distance.
The cops that eventually approached on foot did not shoot. The shooting was over before the cops moved in... the snipers took out all of the bikers that were shooting.
Also in the video, you can clearly see a biker walk over to a few of the bikers on the ground, and shoot them on the ground... and then a sniper round hits him in the head.

Again, watch the security footage before you make crazy claims about police ambush or mis use of lethal force.

---

This is generally correct from my viewing of the videos. Did some innocent people get shot? Probably. By cops? Entirely possible. But once a fight like that erupts in a public place, if you think cops are going to be able to perfectly mete out justice while ending the fracas, you're just naive. The public firefight will be stopped, bodies will hit the floor, and the lawyers will sort it out later. Abel Reyne did a particularly terrible job in this regard.

---

The lawyers sorted it out. No convictions of any of the bikers or bystanders that were arrested.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/04/03/biker-shootout-texas-twin-peaks/

The county spent millions of dollars and could not get a single conviction.

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Indeed. Seems I lead with that way up near the top of the thread. Is that because zero crimes were committed? Or because Abel Reyna couldn't find his ass with both hands and a compass?

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Sorry Mr Wilson. I know you mentioned it but it a big point i i think. Imo its a combo of both. Waco arrested around 177 based on location and appearance. Some of the bikers should have been convicted. Most were innocent

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Agree with all that.

Fat Daddy said:

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At one time I knew one of the dead…. The first one killed. When I knew him (roughly 15 years ago) he didn't even own a bike. Just had a business that hauled equipment, etc.

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Kirschner? I knew his father well.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Robert Wilson said:

---

Arguably, but you get mixed up in an armed conflict in a public space, and you can't much complain when a cop shoots you. Risk of doing business.

There were also zero convictions. So maybe all in all it is a draw.

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Not really a draw Nine guys died.

I heard it started as a fist fight and one guy fired a shot into the ground (another claimed it was shot into the ceiling). After that the police opened fire into the crowd.

sorry Cwby I Someone else called them "Squad Automatic Weapons" I have several rifles and pistols but to me they are just tools like shovels or hoes that I use on the snakes and coyotes.

---

Again, watch the video.
What you described here did NOT happen.
You can clearly see on the video that they were shooting at each other... not into the ground or ceiling. You can also clearly see that multiple shots were fired before the cops started shooting.
The cops that shot the bikers were using rifles with scopes, and shot from a distance.
The cops that eventually approached on foot did not shoot. The shooting was over before the cops moved in... the snipers took out all of the bikers that were shooting.
Also in the video, you can clearly see a biker walk over to a few of the bikers on the ground, and shoot them on the ground... and then a sniper round hits him in the head.

Again, watch the security footage before you make crazy claims about police ambush or mis use of lethal force.

---

This is generally correct from my viewing of the videos. Did some innocent people get shot? Probably. By cops? Entirely possible. But once a fight like that erupts in a public place, if you think cops are going to be able to perfectly mete out justice while ending the fracas, you're just naive. The public firefight will be stopped, bodies will hit the floor, and the lawyers will sort it out later. Abel Reyne did a particularly terrible job in this regard.

---

The lawyers sorted it out. No convictions of any of the bikers or bystanders that were arrested.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/04/03/biker-shootout-texas-twin-peaks/

The county spent millions of dollars and could not get a single conviction.

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the county spent millions of dollars and couldn't overcome Reyna's ineptitude.

At one time wasn't it a felony in Texas to carry guns into any establishment selling alcohol ?

Canada2017 said:

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At one time wasn't it a felony in Texas to carry guns into any establishment selling alcohol ?

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I don't believe so, as long as over 50% of their revenue was from food. I carry inside restaurants that serve alcohol all the time.

Yes it was. Now with the concealed carry laws I think its illegal if the restaurants makes 51% of their revenue from drink. I bet Pecos knows He packs in his sleep.

SIC EM 94 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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At one time wasn't it a felony in Texas to carry guns into any establishment selling alcohol ?

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I don't believe so, as long as over 50% of their revenue was from food.

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Interesting …thank you .

Are such laws no longer on the books in Texas ?

Canada2017 said:

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SIC EM 94 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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At one time wasn't it a felony in Texas to carry guns into any establishment selling alcohol ?

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I don't believe so, as long as over 50% of their revenue was from food.

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Interesting …thank you .

Are such laws no longer on the books in Texas ?

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Yes. 51 sign present, can't carry.

SIC EM 94 said:

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Fat Daddy said:

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At one time I knew one of the dead…. The first one killed. When I knew him (roughly 15 years ago) he didn't even own a bike. Just had a business that hauled equipment, etc.

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Kirschner? I knew his father well.

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Boyett