J.B.Katz said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

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J.B.Katz said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That on had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

Lowe's resignation, which occurred yesterday, is just now being reported: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100958437/pastor-quits-adultery-woman-says-age-16-abuse

"Committing adultery" is not an entirely accurate definition of what Lowe did in preying on a teenage girl in his congregation.

I believe in forgiveness. But this man should be held criminally liable for what he did. Prosecutors are looking into it: https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/pastor-john-lowe-adultery-teen-alleged-sex-abuse

One thing that helped Catholic priests avoid criminal prosecution was that the statute of limitation had run out by the time the victims reported their abuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/06/26/catholic-priests-sex-sexual-abuse-children-minors-new-iowa-law-statue-limitations-attorney-general/7780408002/

Roman Catholic priests who victimized Iowa children decades ago cannot be prosecuted despite a new law eliminating the statute of limitations for child sex abuse, the state attorney general says.


The law, signed by Gov. Kim Reynolds last month, does not apply to cases in which the statute of limitations has already expired, Attorney General Tom Miller's office said in its report Wednesday that found the amount of abuse in the Catholic Church "overwhelming."

That means victims of childhood abuse who are currently 33 and over will not be able to have their abusers prosecuted because they missed the deadline to report. They also can't sue perpetrators and officials who concealed the abuse because the law didn't change the civil statute of limitations.

---

Rape is what he did to prey on a teenage girl. He should have been castrated. Unfortunately the age of consent in Indiana is 16, he started groom her at age 15. I'm sure he was fully aware of the age of consent.

---

Her only recourse is likely a civil suit. I doubt he would be convicted of rape; he would say the sex was consensual.

What mystifies me is why this woman would still be a member of Lowe's congregation.

---

For 27 more years. I really feel for her, I'm sure this hung over her like an anchor for all these years, and the preacher was 100% the fault and should have been in prison.

He will never get what he deserves.

Canada2017 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Right. Learned a long time ago to put my faith in God. Not Pastors, Priests, Politicians, Judges, Teachers, best friends, etc. Humans always find a way to let us down.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That on had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

Lowe's resignation, which occurred yesterday, is just now being reported: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100958437/pastor-quits-adultery-woman-says-age-16-abuse

"Committing adultery" is not an entirely accurate definition of what Lowe did in preying on a teenage girl in his congregation.

I believe in forgiveness. But this man should be held criminally liable for what he did. Prosecutors are looking into it: https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/pastor-john-lowe-adultery-teen-alleged-sex-abuse

One thing that helped Catholic priests avoid criminal prosecution was that the statute of limitation had run out by the time the victims reported their abuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/06/26/catholic-priests-sex-sexual-abuse-children-minors-new-iowa-law-statue-limitations-attorney-general/7780408002/

Roman Catholic priests who victimized Iowa children decades ago cannot be prosecuted despite a new law eliminating the statute of limitations for child sex abuse, the state attorney general says.


The law, signed by Gov. Kim Reynolds last month, does not apply to cases in which the statute of limitations has already expired, Attorney General Tom Miller's office said in its report Wednesday that found the amount of abuse in the Catholic Church "overwhelming."

That means victims of childhood abuse who are currently 33 and over will not be able to have their abusers prosecuted because they missed the deadline to report. They also can't sue perpetrators and officials who concealed the abuse because the law didn't change the civil statute of limitations.

---

Rape is what he did to prey on a teenage girl. He should have been castrated. Unfortunately the age of consent in Indiana is 16, he started groom her at age 15. I'm sure he was fully aware of the age of consent.

---

Her only recourse is likely a civil suit. I doubt he would be convicted of rape; he would say the sex was consensual.

What mystifies me is why this woman would still be a member of Lowe's congregation.

---

For 27 more years. I really feel for her, I'm sure this hung over her like an anchor for all these years, and the preacher was 100% the fault and should have been in prison.

He will never get what he deserves.

---

Years ago I would have said something similar . The John Wayne response.....' Hang the SOB '.
These days...would be curious what the girl friends of the former 16 year old have to relay about the entire situation . Suspect it was an open secret with several of them .

As it doesn't make any kind of sense that the gal stayed in the congregation all these years.

Was the preacher incredibly stupid ? Of course....and he will pay a price for his stupidity .
Always amazes me how these idiots think they can get away with such behavior.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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C. Jordan said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

---

The disease is the same, but the way it's addressed is quite different.

Show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the SBC by a group on the left.

Better yet, show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the Roman Catholic Church by a group on the left.

Two conservative groups with massive, horrible coverups.

---

ABORTION

---

How is abortion a cover-up?

This is a desperate reach!

J.B.Katz said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

Now the #@$% is going to start hitting the fan.

Here's a story about a pastor at a big nondenominational church who makes a self-aggrandizing confession of adultery, which is followed by his victim's confronting him in front of the entire congregation with the fact that she was 16 when the abuse started in his office at the church and that the abuse continued for 9 years. She was driven to bring forward her allegations because her brother could not forget seeing her in bed with the minister.

Some congregants will readily forgive this man and villify his victim. But this incident will crack open the congregation and reveals that for longer than 9 years, this pastor preached about adultery and sin while victimizing a young woman in his congregation.

---

That on had a paywall. Here is the story with the video without a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10849281/Indiana-woman-forces-married-pastor-admit-affair-16-church.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2tkoBsWiqvcvBKHpZ8FCJPPFr9IOEvdSyHGxYXcM_-yZVECsRVIRWhvNc



You are wrong about this congregation villifying the victim here. The congregation was very angry at him, the day had started as a confession of adultery and he got a standing ovation for being "honest". Then the congregation found out he had violated a teenage girl, who was the same age as the pastors children.

He and his wife were kicked out of the church almost immediately, and there were a bunch of folks very angry with him, once it was found this was abuse and not just adultery.

---

Lowe's resignation, which occurred yesterday, is just now being reported: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/24/1100958437/pastor-quits-adultery-woman-says-age-16-abuse

"Committing adultery" is not an entirely accurate definition of what Lowe did in preying on a teenage girl in his congregation.

I believe in forgiveness. But this man should be held criminally liable for what he did. Prosecutors are looking into it: https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/pastor-john-lowe-adultery-teen-alleged-sex-abuse

One thing that helped Catholic priests avoid criminal prosecution was that the statute of limitation had run out by the time the victims reported their abuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2021/06/26/catholic-priests-sex-sexual-abuse-children-minors-new-iowa-law-statue-limitations-attorney-general/7780408002/

Roman Catholic priests who victimized Iowa children decades ago cannot be prosecuted despite a new law eliminating the statute of limitations for child sex abuse, the state attorney general says.


The law, signed by Gov. Kim Reynolds last month, does not apply to cases in which the statute of limitations has already expired, Attorney General Tom Miller's office said in its report Wednesday that found the amount of abuse in the Catholic Church "overwhelming."

That means victims of childhood abuse who are currently 33 and over will not be able to have their abusers prosecuted because they missed the deadline to report. They also can't sue perpetrators and officials who concealed the abuse because the law didn't change the civil statute of limitations.

---

Rape is what he did to prey on a teenage girl. He should have been castrated. Unfortunately the age of consent in Indiana is 16, he started groom her at age 15. I'm sure he was fully aware of the age of consent.

---

Her only recourse is likely a civil suit. I doubt he would be convicted of rape; he would say the sex was consensual.

What mystifies me is why this woman would still be a member of Lowe's congregation.

---

Here is a list of East Texas pastors caught up in the scandal. Note that virtually all of them were sentenced to prison (as they deserved).

https://www.kltv.com/2022/05/27/southern-baptist-convention-releases-list-accused-sexual-abusers/

The church I grew up in was a SBC church, and had one of the scandals surely in the database. The minister, who was the Children's minister, was moved to a new role in the church, the same one, and everything kept quiet, until his son came of age and told everyone he had been abused.

I am not surprised, and yet I think it's important to recognize that for the most part, this is the work of a small cadre of elites within the church, working to keep these secrets so that they can remain in power, make their money.

The vast majority of church goers, and SBC ministers, did not know of this, and never would have supported it.

The core fundamentalist teachings of the church will undoubtedly be scrutinized in the coming decade. As they should be.

Fundamentalism allows those with a lesser conscience to prance about as if they are the golden rule followers, a true example to humanity. They preach from the pulpit about the fall of man, and yet I always got the feeling it was directed outwards. 0 inwards reflection.

It is no surprise to me that a significant percentage of these lesser conscience fundamentalists not only lorded power over others from the pulpit, but also in other ways.

What I've seen is that leaders don't want to deal with this kind of thing. The scenario that I've heard play out (and that seems to be a recurrent theme in the report) is that (1) someone makes an accusation against a minister or church insider, (2) the church insider denies it strenuously, (3) church senior leadership does not want to deal with it, so they don't investigate and hope that the accused is either innocent or will be smart enough to never do it again after being accused, (4) other victims inevitably start coming out with similar stories, often after the minister has been "reshuffled" elsewhere. I don't know if it is a money thing, an embarrassment thing, or if they really don't know if the stories are true, but they generally don't try to find out. Then the lawyers get involved and counsel everyone to cover liability rather than doing what's right.

C. Jordan said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

The outrage in the case of Southern Baptists is not simply that sexual abuse occurred, it is that those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue. It is all the more outrageous because this was in character for these men.

The fundamentalist takeover of the SBC (let us call it what it was) was a series of evil acts from the beginning. It was not led by the Spirit of God as evidenced by the actions of those carrying it out. From the beginning this was clear to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, and it left a chilling question hanging in the air: if these men would carry out the kind of pro-Satan, power-grabbing actions they were doing publicly and without shame, what would they be willing to do to protect their power and privilege when they believed no one was watching? What they did in these cases of sexual abuse, therefore, comes as a devastating, stomach-turning shock but not a great surprise.

In a broader view, however, these particular men are not unique and their particular brand of wrong-headed theology is not a unique cause of their evil. This drive to protect power and image over people infects every every human power structure, whether they are schools, government agencies, political parties or churches, and when churches substitute human principles for Christian principles, no matter their presumed motivations, disaster follows as surely as the sun rises in the East.

---

"those who could and should have done something about helping victims of that abuse and reducing its incidence going forward instead took actions to damage the victims themselves and to make such abuses more likely to continue."

This happened in the Catholic Church, too. I would argue that those who covered up the abuses meted out by pedophile priests assigned to parishes and sexually abusive or sadistic priests and nuns working at religious institutions for children are no better, but no worse, than those who covered up for the abuses that occurred within evangelical congregations and children's camps.

---

It happens virtually everywhere there is abuse with the potential that the revelation of that abuse will lead to negative impact on the institution involved. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, public schools, private schools, movie studios, and so on.

Your assertion that "nothing will be done" is somewhat misinformed. At the church we attend, those of us who work with children undergo state background checks and we have a robust child protection policy in place. While a crime could happen, it is much less likely with those safeguards for children (and adults) in place. This has been the case there for a couple of decades or more. We also don't hire ministers who mistake themselves for God when they look in the mirror. That makes a difference.

You decided to bring abortion in to the thread, but this topic is about the victims of abuse that have already been born. Those who haven't been born you have no care for because, like the leaders of these churches you despise, you place a higher value on something other than the good of the weak and helpless in the face of those who would destroy them in body or spirit or both.

---

Very well said.

The left and the right have the same disease, but they take the greatest pride in how different their symptoms are.

---

The disease is the same, but the way it's addressed is quite different.

Show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the SBC by a group on the left.

Better yet, show me a coverup of similar scope and size to that of the Roman Catholic Church by a group on the left.

Two conservative groups with massive, horrible coverups.

---

ABORTION

---

How is abortion a cover-up?

This is a desperate reach!

---

it's not a coverup, at all. Heck no! There are 60,000,000 dead babies that liberals love to hang their hat on.

But you're right. Not a coverup

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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I don't believe for a minute that you folks didn't know this was happening.

It was just easier to ignore it despite reports like this:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2019/06/10/attorneys-boz-tchividjian-and-mitch-little-help-a-sex-abuse-victim-in-her-quest-to-hold-matt-chandler-and-the-village-church-accountable/

Or to blame the victim--remember Karen Root/Hinkley, who was subjected to church discipline after discovering her husband was a pedophile and requesting an annulment, which the Church not only refused to grant, but during which they also hired a lawyer...to defend her husband, Jordan Root, the pedophile.

https://baptistnews.com/article/man-confesses-to-child-porn-church-disciplines-his-wife/#.YovQYajMKUk

Or perhaps you value the lives of women so little (people who support government commandeering of women's bodies the instant an egg is fertilized, even in instances of rape or incest, clearly don't value women enough to believe they should have any personal agency or control over their own lives whatsoever) that you believed upholding the church leadership meant overlooking when leaders stumbled or covered for powerful parishioners or other church leaders who stumbled.

If this is a shocking problem, it sure has been hiding in plain sight.

Here's what I predict will happen: Nothing.

Nothing has really happened in the Catholic church other than dioceses being bankrupted by civil claims. Which Church lawyers have fought tooth and nail.

And the Trumps have proven that if you have enough support, control media that reaches your followers (even if it alienates most everyone else), gaslight enough, stall enough and deny enough, you'll pay no consequences whatsoever. That's the strategy Ginni Thomas and Clarence Thomas are currently employing to ensure Thomas can remain in his SCOTUS seat despite the fact that Ginni supported an insurrection and Clarence helped by voting to allow Trump to block the release of presidential records relating to the events of Jan. 6.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/01/court-rebuffs-trumps-bid-to-block-release-of-documents-related-to-jan-6-riot/

---

Blood in the water. Enjoy your frenzy.

---

***?

You don't think she can have a moment of "I told you so" without you taking a shot at her??

Over 700 men were both identified AND protected by the most powerful men in the denomination. Which also means they enabled the injuries to other victims.

Is there blood in the water? Absolutely.

Is frenzy an appropriate response? It sure ****ing is.

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

I don't believe for a minute that you folks didn't know this was happening.

It was just easier to ignore it despite reports like this:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2019/06/10/attorneys-boz-tchividjian-and-mitch-little-help-a-sex-abuse-victim-in-her-quest-to-hold-matt-chandler-and-the-village-church-accountable/

Or to blame the victim--remember Karen Root/Hinkley, who was subjected to church discipline after discovering her husband was a pedophile and requesting an annulment, which the Church not only refused to grant, but during which they also hired a lawyer...to defend her husband, Jordan Root, the pedophile.

https://baptistnews.com/article/man-confesses-to-child-porn-church-disciplines-his-wife/#.YovQYajMKUk

Or perhaps you value the lives of women so little (people who support government commandeering of women's bodies the instant an egg is fertilized, even in instances of rape or incest, clearly don't value women enough to believe they should have any personal agency or control over their own lives whatsoever) that you believed upholding the church leadership meant overlooking when leaders stumbled or covered for powerful parishioners or other church leaders who stumbled.

If this is a shocking problem, it sure has been hiding in plain sight.

Here's what I predict will happen: Nothing.

Nothing has really happened in the Catholic church other than dioceses being bankrupted by civil claims. Which Church lawyers have fought tooth and nail.

And the Trumps have proven that if you have enough support, control media that reaches your followers (even if it alienates most everyone else), gaslight enough, stall enough and deny enough, you'll pay no consequences whatsoever. That's the strategy Ginni Thomas and Clarence Thomas are currently employing to ensure Thomas can remain in his SCOTUS seat despite the fact that Ginni supported an insurrection and Clarence helped by voting to allow Trump to block the release of presidential records relating to the events of Jan. 6.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/01/court-rebuffs-trumps-bid-to-block-release-of-documents-related-to-jan-6-riot/

---

Blood in the water. Enjoy your frenzy.

---

***?

You don't think she can have a moment of "I told you so" without you taking a shot at her??

Over 700 men were both identified AND protected by the most powerful men in the denomination. Which also means they enabled the injuries to other victims.

Is there blood in the water? Absolutely.

Is frenzy an appropriate response? It sure ****ing is.

---

Hey look! We agree. There is blood in the water.

Some look for solutions and some lash out at everything. That's why it is called a frenzy. In this thread she has, among other things, brought up Trump and abortion rights. Thanks for helping me illustrate my point.

Canada2017 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

quash said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Google "passing the trash."

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Another thing that protecting these "ministers" did. One particular "childrens minister" who kept getting away with it from way back in 1969 until 2006, moved from churches in 3 different states 5 or 6 locations, over the course of 5 decades, always getting a "fresh start" always molesting someone or multiple people in their new location.

This means even though there were 700+ official molesters, there were probably double that, and they all moved from church to church, affecting more than one location. So even though those protected numbered in the 100's, the churches they affected numbered in the 1000's.

What a horrible situation.

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Google "passing the trash."

---

That's not typically an institutional failing, but instead the moral failure of a singular unscrupulous district/administrator.

This is institutional rape enabling ... by people claiming God's will as their guide.

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Google "passing the trash."

---

Not the same thing.

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Google "passing the trash."

---

Not the same thing.

---

What is the difference in one institution failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against 700 individuals and a couple of hundred institutions failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against a few individuals each? I am not seeing a whole lot of qualitative difference. Both cases are intolerable, and it would be nice if prison was the outcome in both situations.

D. C. Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Google "passing the trash."

---

Not the same thing.

---

What is the difference in one institution failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against 700 individuals and a couple of hundred institutions failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against a few individuals each? I am not seeing a whole lot of qualitative difference. Both cases are intolerable, and it would be nice if prison was the outcome in both situations.

---

Well, the main difference is one institution and a couple of hundred institutions.

quash said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Google "passing the trash."

---

Not the same thing.

---

What is the difference in one institution failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against 700 individuals and a couple of hundred institutions failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against a few individuals each? I am not seeing a whole lot of qualitative difference. Both cases are intolerable, and it would be nice if prison was the outcome in both situations.

---

Well, the main difference is one institution and a couple of hundred institutions.

---

That does not seem to be a particularly substantive difference.

D. C. Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Makes Catholics look like a starter kit

---

Don't judge solely based on 'revelations' found only on the internet.

People are presumed to be innocent unless found guilty in a court of law .

Despite the intense publicity such scandals generate when found within the Christian community……….statistics suggest similar outrages are more common involving teachers and school administrators.

Yet the national media doesn't spotlight such realities with the same intensity or indignation.

---

Are you seriously trying to downplay this???

---

I don't think he is downplaying it.

Its serious and terrible...but he is right that everyone deserves the basic Constitutional right of innocent until proven guilty.

And that statistically (while again terrible) religious communities overall are less likely to be hot beds of sexual assault than schools and other places.

---

I think and Cananda are missing the larger point.

Are there more teachers who have committed sexual abuse than preachers? Sure ona straight up numbers basis, not so sure on a percentage basis.

But what is missing from the schools is the level of protection afforded by an agency that actively hid these 700+ abusers from its churches. I am not aware of any analogous educational agency that hid/enabled abuse.

---

Google "passing the trash."

---

Not the same thing.

---

What is the difference in one institution failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against 700 individuals and a couple of hundred institutions failing to reveal their knowledge of allegations against a few individuals each? I am not seeing a whole lot of qualitative difference. Both cases are intolerable, and it would be nice if prison was the outcome in both situations.

---

Well, the main difference is one institution and a couple of hundred institutions.

---

That does not seem to be a particularly substantive difference.

---

One place that should have been looking out for their flock of 18 million (or whatever the current number is) instead enabled the abusers. 705 of them.

I look at this from the standpoint of "Would it have made a difference?"

Stopping those 705 from abusing the people who trusted them, and doing so at church after church, means that, yes, that one institution participated in the abuse of a lot of people. Any one school stepping up could not have made any such difference.