White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

contrario said:

---

White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

You're pretending WE started this "you can't play that role, you're not (insert race/gender/sexual preference here)!!!!!" stuff? That's hilarious. Yeah, you know those crazy conservatives always whining about white washing and cultural appropriation...

Wangchung said:

---

contrario said:

---

White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

You're pretending WE started this "you can't play that role, you're not (insert race/gender/sexual preference here)!!!!!" stuff? That's hilarious. Yeah, you know those crazy conservatives always whining about white washing and cultural appropriation...

---

I'm not claiming anything, I just find it hilarious that a conservative is criticizing changing the race of a fictional character when Christianity literally changed the race of a real person to tell a better story and many conservatives think Jesus actually looked like a white European. You just can't make this up.

contrario said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

contrario said:

---

White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

You're pretending WE started this "you can't play that role, you're not (insert race/gender/sexual preference here)!!!!!" stuff? That's hilarious. Yeah, you know those crazy conservatives always whining about white washing and cultural appropriation...

---

I'm not claiming anything, I just find it hilarious that a conservative is criticizing changing the race of a fictional character when Christianity literally changed the race of a real person to tell a better story and many conservatives think Jesus actually looked like a white European. You just can't make this up.

---

"Christianity" changed the race? Nope. Changed the skin tone centuries ago? Sure looks that way.
Hardly the same as the conversation we are having concerning the difference between leftists pissing themselves over whitewashing and cultural appropriation then turning around and acting like conservatives are crazy for pointing out their own similar actions. But sure, keep pretending this conversation isn't all based on the behavior of victimhood pimps aka democrats.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

---

While I appreciate the rich literary history of Tolkien, I am not sure it's fair to point to unpublished manuscripts edited by Christopher Tolkien to make your point, nor am I sure that either of those two passages, on their face, dispute the position stated by Golem.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

---

While I appreciate the rich literary history of Tolkien, I am not sure it's fair to point to unpublished manuscripts edited by Christopher Tolkien to make your point, nor am I sure that either of those two passages, on their face, dispute the position stated by Golem.

---

Well, the TV show is mostly based on Tolkien's posthumous works, so I'm not sure how they wouldn't be fair game. Golem said that Tolkien never described an elf as anything but white, pale, or fair. These descriptions are in fact the opposite -- "swart" is from the German word meaning black.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

---

While I appreciate the rich literary history of Tolkien, I am not sure it's fair to point to unpublished manuscripts edited by Christopher Tolkien to make your point, nor am I sure that either of those two passages, on their face, dispute the position stated by Golem.

---

Well, the TV show is mostly based on Tolkien's posthumous works, so I'm not sure how they wouldn't be fair game. Golem said that Tolkien never described an elf as anything but white, pale, or fair. These descriptions are in fact the opposite -- "swart" is from the German word meaning black.

---

Not sure I would describe manuscripts that were edited and co-authored by Christopher Tolkien as JR Tolkien's post-humous works. But again, "less fair than most" and "swart" could simply mean he wasn't as pale as other elves, who are generally described as white angelic creatures. Not sure it supports the theory that there were black elves.

Again, I take no issue with the black elves. I just don't think your find supports your position.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

---

While I appreciate the rich literary history of Tolkien, I am not sure it's fair to point to unpublished manuscripts edited by Christopher Tolkien to make your point, nor am I sure that either of those two passages, on their face, dispute the position stated by Golem.

---

Well, the TV show is mostly based on Tolkien's posthumous works, so I'm not sure how they wouldn't be fair game. Golem said that Tolkien never described an elf as anything but white, pale, or fair. These descriptions are in fact the opposite -- "swart" is from the German word meaning black.

---

Not sure I would describe manuscripts that were edited and co-authored by Christopher Tolkien as JR Tolkien's post-humous works. But again, "less fair than most" and "swart" could simply mean he wasn't as pale as other elves, who are generally described as white angelic creatures. Not sure it supports the theory that there were black elves.

Again, I take no issue with the black elves. I just don't think your find supports your position.

---

Depending on how you define "black," there aren't necessarily any black elves in the show. The actor who plays Arondir is Puerto Rican.

I can't wait for the Hogan's Hero's redo and they cast a POC for Sargent Shultz, Col. Klink and the various Gestapo agents.

I don't like the recasting of classics and casting of historical dramas with conflicting race and gender actors. For example, I watched some Viking historical drama recently and they cast a woman POC as a Viking king. She was an OK actor but the impossibility of the situation interfered with my journey.

As far as new fantasy movies or drama, production should hire the best actor available for the job, regardless of r,c or c.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

---

While I appreciate the rich literary history of Tolkien, I am not sure it's fair to point to unpublished manuscripts edited by Christopher Tolkien to make your point, nor am I sure that either of those two passages, on their face, dispute the position stated by Golem.

---

Well, the TV show is mostly based on Tolkien's posthumous works, so I'm not sure how they wouldn't be fair game. Golem said that Tolkien never described an elf as anything but white, pale, or fair. These descriptions are in fact the opposite -- "swart" is from the German word meaning black.

---

Not sure I would describe manuscripts that were edited and co-authored by Christopher Tolkien as JR Tolkien's post-humous works. But again, "less fair than most" and "swart" could simply mean he wasn't as pale as other elves, who are generally described as white angelic creatures. Not sure it supports the theory that there were black elves.

Again, I take no issue with the black elves. I just don't think your find supports your position.

---

Depending on how you define "black," there aren't necessarily any black elves in the show. The actor who plays Arondir is Puerto Rican.

---

Everyone knows that the left distinguishes between Latinos of African and non-African descent. Arondir is definitely the former, and not one of those gringo-Latinos.

Hamilton is something that my kids watch a lot. I think one of the main girls and the British King are white. Everyone else is Black/Minority. It's pretty accurate (from what I can tell). I love that the minorities want to play the heroic roles of the founders of our nation and be a part of it. I said to my kids, this is so much better than multi-millionaire 'oppressed' half white football players acting like they're victims all the time.

The Rings of Power adding black elves and dwarves bothers me none - and I'm a Tolkein purist. His work is the judaeo-christian mythology of Europe. And I still dont care.

The only annoying part is where they make a white man make a racial attack on the black elf early on. Sigh. Stop projecting racism. Made me want to turn it off right there. But I didnt.

The parts of this show that are bad are:
1. Galadriel. She is supposed to be the coolest, most revered, powerful, married, wisest being in Middle Earth. They make her a revenge seeking possessed GRUNT that has no decent feelings for any other person at all. They make her this ultimate warrior due to feminism and have completely ruined the best female character.

2. Miriel - no

3. The timeline is all messed up and they basically dont get anything right. So you have the father of Fantasy and you think you can improve on his writing? So now not only do Tolkien purists hate you...the work is now not nearly as good.

4. And finally...IT IS BORING BORING BORING. The writers were more concerned with adding woke elements than they were making an interesting show. So many characters and scenes are stupid and/worthless and so much is just trying to copy off of Peter Jackson's work.

I'll keep watching until I see a transcontinentialnny elf. But you shouldnt. Its terrible.

And - check out what Amazon is doing to hide its ratings bomb. And if you criticize it you are labeled toxic. The show sucks...get over it.

'Because vagina'



This review of The Rings of Power made me laugh a lot!

contrario said:

---

White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

Jesus most likely looked "Mediterranean" in appearance.

So like modern day Greeks, Lebanese, and Italians.

But it's also possible he was far lighter skinned being that two of the most unchanged groups in Israel today (Samaritans and Druze) can have very pale skin. And some are even known to have red and blond looking hair.







Certainly the traditional Greek artistic depictions of Christ can not be far off from his actual appearance.








[Caucasoid is a word used for a person from Europe, West Asia, Central Asia, North Africa, or even sometimes the Horn of Africa. The group of these persons is often called the "Caucasoid race" or Caucasian race.]

North African berbers.

They have been in North Africa since before the Roman Empire.






And even modern day Arab Palestinians can have red and blond hair.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

---

Funny. In the Silmarillion Maeglin was described as follows:

"(Of Maeglin) ''He was tall and black-haired; his eyes were dark, yet bright and keen as the eyes of the Noldor, and his skin was white. Often he went with Eöl to the cities of the Dwarves in the east of Ered Lindon, and there he learned eagerly what they would teach, and above all the craft of finding the ores of metals in the mountains.''

Page: 158

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Golem said:

---

But Tolkien only ever described Elves as white, pale, fair.

---

Incorrect.

---

Half way through the Two Towers with my youngest son. Began the year with The Hobbit and then The Fellowship. Haven't yet encountered a black elf. And of course having read the books years ago, I don't remember any of them in my past readings. My impression of LOTR is that Tolkien envisioned them as fair and angelic like in their look. That's the way they have been described up until now.

Not that I care whether there are black elves. We've watched the first two episodes of The Rings of Power. Don't have an issue with the characters looks. My main issue is that the characters aren't written very well.

---

The passages aren't in LOTR but in The History of Middle Earth. Maeglin or Meglin, who betrayed Gondolin during the First Age, is described this way:

Quote:

---

Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true.

---

Quote:

---

With her came her son Meglin, and he was there received by Turgon his mother's brother, and though he was half of Dark-elfin blood he was treated as a prince of Fingolfin's line. He was swart but comely, wise and eloquent, and cunning to win men's hearts and minds.

---

---

While I appreciate the rich literary history of Tolkien, I am not sure it's fair to point to unpublished manuscripts edited by Christopher Tolkien to make your point, nor am I sure that either of those two passages, on their face, dispute the position stated by Golem.

---

Well, the TV show is mostly based on Tolkien's posthumous works, so I'm not sure how they wouldn't be fair game. Golem said that Tolkien never described an elf as anything but white, pale, or fair. These descriptions are in fact the opposite -- "swart" is from the German word meaning black.

---

Not sure I would describe manuscripts that were edited and co-authored by Christopher Tolkien as JR Tolkien's post-humous works. But again, "less fair than most" and "swart" could simply mean he wasn't as pale as other elves, who are generally described as white angelic creatures. Not sure it supports the theory that there were black elves.

Again, I take no issue with the black elves. I just don't think your find supports your position.

---

Maeglin is described as unambiguously "white" in the Silmarillion.

http://www.istad.org/imladris/projectElves/appearance.asp

contrario said:

---

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

The Jesus picture is a red herring. There are several examples of the Church historically doing things to make the Faith more attractive to local communities. Depictions of Christ vary across the world because the intent - much like the Bible - is not to necessarily portray a historical depiction of Christ but a spiritual one. If a Christian is worried about a picture of Jesus he or she is doing it wrong.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

The Jesus picture is a red herring. There are several examples of the Church historically doing things to make the Faith more attractive to local communities. Depictions of Christ vary across the world because the intent - much like the Bible - is not to necessarily portray a historical depiction of Christ but a spiritual one. If a Christian is worried about a picture of Jesus he or she is doing it wrong.

---

Every culture produced images of Christ that look like them.

Go to Ethiopia and you find Christ portrayed as a black man. That is everyone's right to show the savior as looking similar to them.

The point of the early eastern images of Christ is the in true historic reality he probably did look similar to that.

Hebrews at that time looked like other Mediterranean peoples… Druze, Samaritans, Kurds, Lebanese, and Jews to this day still do.

And King David was said to have a "Ruddy" complexion.

Jesus was of course from the line of David.

We can not know for certain but those early images as I said are probably not far off from the reality.


Below is a picture of 3 Egyptians…they run the skin-tone line from pale to dark brown.

Wangchung said:

---

contrario said:

---

White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

You're pretending WE started this "you can't play that role, you're not (insert race/gender/sexual preference here)!!!!!" stuff? That's hilarious. Yeah, you know those crazy conservatives always whining about white washing and cultural appropriation...

---

Don't cry too hard. You've never once complained when you saw a white Jesus painting, but a black elf? STOP THE PRESS. crocodile tears.

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

contrario said:

---

White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

You're pretending WE started this "you can't play that role, you're not (insert race/gender/sexual preference here)!!!!!" stuff? That's hilarious. Yeah, you know those crazy conservatives always whining about white washing and cultural appropriation...

---

Don't cry too hard. You've never once complained when you saw a white Jesus painting, but a black elf? STOP THE PRESS. crocodile tears.

---

You probably should have read the rest of the comments before replying, Gilligan.

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

contrario said:

---

White Europeans literally changed the race of the person they thought was God to make it easier to sell Christianity to the masses and you are going to get upset about how a fictional character is portrayed?

Seriously?

Waiting for the responses that claim a man born in the Middle East actually did look like a European by some divine intervention.

---

You're pretending WE started this "you can't play that role, you're not (insert race/gender/sexual preference here)!!!!!" stuff? That's hilarious. Yeah, you know those crazy conservatives always whining about white washing and cultural appropriation...

---

Don't cry too hard. You've never once complained when you saw a white Jesus painting, but a black elf? STOP THE PRESS. crocodile tears.

---

You probably should have read the rest of the comments before replying, Gilligan.

---

Why? You actually boycotted white Jesus art?

Wangchung said:

---

Nope. But you should probably read the rest of the comments before continuing to make yourself look like a dumbass. What am I saying, that's your modus operandi.

---

Oh sure bud.

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Nope. But you should probably read the rest of the comments before continuing to make yourself look like a dumbass. What am I saying, that's your modus operandi.

---

Oh sure bud.

---

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you come by your dumbassery honestly.

---

You sure post a lot to say absolutely nothing. Anything on your mind or were you just throwing out random word salads? Inquiring minds and all.

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Nope. But you should probably read the rest of the comments before continuing to make yourself look like a dumbass. What am I saying, that's your modus operandi.

---

Oh sure bud.

---

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you come by your dumbassery honestly.

---

You sure post a lot to say absolutely nothing. Anything on your mind or were you just throwing out random word salads? Inquiring minds and all.

---

Come on, you know it was funny.