Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

None of that is true. Hilarious you think so.

24-25. East of Robotyne.
3.9km east of Robotyne, 82nd Air Assault Bde advance south past a damaged🇷🇺T-72B3M at 47.433049, 35.897905 (h/t @blinzka) towards a destroyed T-72. Both are earlier losses see tweet 25. To the east Russian 'dragons teeth' are visible. At 00:29 he says… pic.twitter.com/9drQs5CtFx

— Dan (@Danspiun) September 1, 2023

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

ETA: Except for Bear8084.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

---

LOL not even close.

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

---

LOL not even close.

---

Sorry...fixed.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

---

LOL not even close.

---

Sorry...fixed.

---

Still wrong, vatnik.

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

---

LOL not even close.

---

Sorry...fixed.

---

Still wrong, vatnik.

---

So the offensive has met your expectations to this point?

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

---

LOL not even close.

---

Sorry...fixed.

---

Still wrong, vatnik.

---

So the offensive has met your expectations to this point?

---

Of course not, but it isn't failing either.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

ETA: Except for Bear8084.

---

We can certainly debate whether Ukraine's counter has met expectations. I say no, but I also say some expectations were unrealistic. However, Russia has consistently lost ground since the initial invasion, so I truly do not see how anyone can argue Russia success. I mean, based on his actions and statements, not even Putin believes that.

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

---

LOL not even close.

---

Sorry...fixed.

---

Still wrong, vatnik.

---

So the offensive has met your expectations to this point?

---

Of course not, but it isn't failing either.

---

Who is spreading propaganda now you NPR loving tote bag wearer?

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Spring/summer winding down with the Ukes stalled in Zaporizhzhia, approximately where they'd hoped to be in early June but without the reserves. Robotyne is still not fully secured and is still taking fire from forward Russian positions in the south. Roads north of Robotyne are under Russian fire control due to Ukraine not maintaining its flank, putting supplies and reinforcements under constant attack. Ukrainians are evidently being herded toward a weak spot at Verbove, but even there they've yet to break through.

---

Just so we're clear, is your position that Russia is kicking a _ _?

---

They can't help it. Ukraine has failed to meet even the lowest expectations. It's so obvious that even the American public is starting to figure it out.

---

LOL not even close.

---

Sorry...fixed.

---

Still wrong, vatnik.

---

So the offensive has met your expectations to this point?

---

Of course not, but it isn't failing either.

---

Who is spreading propaganda now you NPR loving tote bag wearer?

---

Cool outdated articles vatnik.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/25/politics/us-intel-russia-propaganda/index.html

Sounds like you and some on here, vatnik.

Bear8084 said:

---

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/25/politics/us-intel-russia-propaganda/index.html

Sounds like you and some on here, vatnik.

---

You are deep in the propaganda/Zelensky cultism when even CNN is Russian news to you….

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

And not need to be jealous of my tote bag. It is quite nice. Sturdy. Reliable. Clean. Unlike the RU propaganda you push.

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?


[August 13th article. "With Kyiv offensive stalling, eyes turn to next years fight"

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukraines-slog-prompts-focus-on-next-years-fight-d638cdf7]

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?

---

I also said it isn't making expectations, but it isn't failing, no matter what the outdated articles say.

And like I told Sam, maybe get Putin's bellybutton out of your eyes and you might see and understand something. But I highly doubt that judging from the useful idiots you also keep boosting.

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?

---

I also said it isn't making expectations, but it isn't failing, no matter what the outdated articles say.

---

Lines have barely moved since Spring….world war I style with both sides losing men and equipment for minimal gains.

Tell us Supreme General goofball what is the definition of success?

Bear8084 said:

---

And like I told Sam, maybe get Putin's bellybutton out of your eyes and you might see and understand something. But I highly doubt that judging from the useful idiots you also keep boosting.

---

Maybe Zelensky could win this spring offensive if you got off your fat butt and off your computer screen in DFW and went over and joined the fight?


Besides the very really probability you would get your balls blown off in the first 15 mins….you could then report back to us on the accuracy of the spring offensive not in fact being a massive let down and failure.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?

---

I also said it isn't making expectations, but it isn't failing, no matter what the outdated articles say.

---

Lines have barely moved since Spring….world war I style with both sides losing men and equipment for minimal gains.

Tell us Supreme General goofball what is the definition of success?

---

Whiterock has actually had excellent breakdowns and explanations. Start there.

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?

---

I also said it isn't making expectations, but it isn't failing, no matter what the outdated articles say.

---

Lines have barely moved since Spring….world war I style with both sides losing men and equipment for minimal gains.

Tell us Supreme General goofball what is the definition of success?

---

Whiterock has actually had excellent breakdowns and explanations. Start there.

---

Every one of which has proven to be wrong. He hyped the assault on Melitopol a dozen times in this thread alone before turning on a dime when US intel admitted it was out of reach.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?

---

I also said it isn't making expectations, but it isn't failing, no matter what the outdated articles say.

---

Lines have barely moved since Spring….world war I style with both sides losing men and equipment for minimal gains.

Tell us Supreme General goofball what is the definition of success?

---

Whiterock has actually had excellent breakdowns and explanations. Start there.

---

Every one of which has proven to be wrong. He's hyped the assault on Melitopol a dozen times in this thread alone before turning on a dime when US intel admitted it was out of reach.

---

He's been a lot more accurate than you. By quite a bit.

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?

---

I also said it isn't making expectations, but it isn't failing, no matter what the outdated articles say.

---

Lines have barely moved since Spring….world war I style with both sides losing men and equipment for minimal gains.

Tell us Supreme General goofball what is the definition of success?

---

Whiterock has actually had excellent breakdowns and explanations. Start there.

---

I will give you that whiterock knows a lot and is a knowledgeable guy.

Unlike you NPR gal….

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

I said it was a cool outdated article, vatnik. No need to show it again.

---

Look NPR tote bag girl….the offense is stalling/failing to meet expectations and all major western news sources are reporting that.

Do you have some super secret info about Ukrainian war strategy that was shared with you at the last NPR pledge drive?

---

I also said it isn't making expectations, but it isn't failing, no matter what the outdated articles say.

---

Lines have barely moved since Spring….world war I style with both sides losing men and equipment for minimal gains.

Tell us Supreme General goofball what is the definition of success?

---

Whiterock has actually had excellent breakdowns and explanations. Start there.

---

I will give you that whiterock knows a lot and is a knowledgeable guy.

Unlike you NPR gal….

---

LOL Sure vatnik. Can't wait to read the next Tweets you share.

I enjoy Whiterock's posts. They are valuable if only for what they reveal about the War Party's way of thinking. The same kind of thing was going on with Iraq, but we didn't have the privilege of a front row seat. To see this kind of blind arrogance operating in real time is fascinating.

Bear8084 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I enjoy Whiterock's posts. They are valuable if only for what they reveal about the War Party's way of thinking. The same kind of thing was going on with Iraq, but we didn't have the privilege of a front row seat. To see this kind of blind arrogance operating in real time is fascinating.

---

It's also fascinating to read the "I want Russia to win" side and their blind arrogance too.

---

Duly noted.

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Zelensky promising better results from the domestic defense industry and telling Ukrainians they need to "learn to live with" the war. Translation: we're out of troops and the Americans are out of ammo, but please don't run me out on a rail just yet.

---

I didn't realize we were out of ammo and the Ukrainians are being forced to surrender today.

---

Ukraine will never run out of ammo or equipment because the USA & EU ruling classes are determine to fund this war out into eternity….no matter if average American and European taxpayers and voters oppose it or not.

But what Ukraine is gonna run out of is young fighting age men at some point.

Ask the Southerners in 1865

Ask the French in 1917
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_French_Army_mutinies#:~:text=The%201917%20French%20Army%20mutinies,Nivelle%20Offensive%20in%20April%201917.

Ask the Germans in 1945

Ask the Iraqis in 1988
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War


Eventually the smaller nation runs out of fighting men before the larger populated nation.

---

This war ends when the Nation being invaded decides to settle. It is their Nation at stake. You keep interjecting your political believes into this situation. Ukraine is asking for support to survive, NATO is providing tools.

It ends 1 of 2 ways, Ukraine says "No Mas" or Putin pulls his troops out. That is it. You may want to ask the average Ukrainian if they want to capitulate to Putin.

---

Red's keen interest on demographics has negatively affected his perception of dynamics in Ukraine. None of the situations listed above ended because the parties involved ran out of men to put in uniform. Iran/Iraq in particular does not fit. The smaller nation finished the war stronger, thanks in no small part to massive international assistance.

---

"Saddam invaded Kuwait to annul his debts accrued from the Iran-Iraq war"

Iraq ended that war with lots of weapons and a seasoned army officer corp because of Western support...but they were fought to a stand still by Iran using their superior numbers of men and human wave tactics.

Iraq failed in that war precisely because of the superior numbers of Iranians. Iraq pop. of 16.9 million in 1988 vs Iran's 53 million people.

And Iraq was so broke from the fighting that Saddam made a foolish gamble to invade Kuwait to try and stop the bleeding of cash out of the country and annul the Iraqi debt. Leading to an Iraqi disasterous war with the USA.


[The war cost both sides in lives and economic damage: about half a million Iraqi and Iranian soldiers and an equivalent number of civilians died, with many more injured; however, the war brought neither reparations nor changes in borders. The conflict has been compared to World War I in terms of the tactics used, including large-scale trench warfare with barbed wire stretched across trenches, manned machine gun posts, bayonet charges, human wave attacks across a no man's land, and extensive use of chemical weapons such as sulfur mustard by the Iraqi government against Iranian troops, civilians, and Kurds. The world powers United States and the Soviet Union, together with many Western and Arab countries, provided military, intelligence, economic, and political support for Iraq.]

Had Iraq had the 53 million population...and Iran had the 16 million pop....Iraq would have won easily

Demographics matters.


p.s.

The more you think about it the more there are serious comparison points to be made between the Iran-Iraq war and the Russo-Ukrainian war

---

of course demographics matters, but the premise of your argument is that demographics are determinative. they are not. Good strategy and execution can offset. Foreign assistance can offset, and did specifically in the case of the I/I War. It went on for 8 YEARS and ended in a draw, despite Iraq having approx 20% of the population Iran did.

Ukraine has a third of the population of Russia, and has the following advantages over Iraq:
-1) 3x more people than Iraq (more raw numbers = easier to keep multiple domestic industries going) for conflict involving fewer combatants (less than half that of the I/I War).
-2) a better educated populace with far more resources and industries
-3) orders of magnitude more foreign support, offsetting factor 1. Whether to send boys to work or to war becomes less of an internal conflict = greater percentage of available manpower poll goes to war.
-4) donors have strategic interests in loss/victory, which was not the case in I/I War

and the list is longer than that. Russia cannot win this war as long as Europe/Nato remains united in support. It can never overcome the logistical power of Europe/Nato. Even though it does have a larger manpower base, its internal inefficiencies prevent it from being able to bring that advantage to bear. It cannot recruit, train, transport, and most importantly equip enough, fast enough. And it's lack of international support means it must draw greater percentages of military aged men into the workforce rather than the army. They recently did a workplace draft roundup on the floor of the Lada plant (largest auto plant in the world).

This conflict is far more even than simple demographics would suggest.
Russia cannot win it.

trey3216 said:

---

He's already lost the war, and he knows it. Now the people know it as well. Why do you need to call up 300,000 troops for a "Special, 3 Day, Military Operation"?

---

Russia's original strategy was to take Donbass and Lugansk to stop the UAF's attacks on those two regions and make peace with guarantees of Ukraine remaining a neutral state. The reaction of NATO has made that outcome less likely. It's possible that the Russians decide that their national security interests involve rolling right up to the Dniper River. It's also possible that they decide that their national security interests involve rolling right up to the Polish border.

https://www.youtube.com/@Col.DouglasMacgregor

Realitybites said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

He's already lost the war, and he knows it. Now the people know it as well. Why do you need to call up 300,000 troops for a "Special, 3 Day, Military Operation"?

---

Russia's original strategy was to take Donbass and Lugansk to stop the UAF's attacks on those two regions and make peace with guarantees of Ukraine remaining a neutral state. The reaction of NATO has made that outcome less likely. It's possible that the Russians decide that their national security interests involve rolling right up to the Dniper River. It's also possible that they decide that their national security interests involve rolling right up to the Polish border.

https://www.youtube.com/@Col.DouglasMacgregor

---

lol at using Doug MacGregor as a source. He's a Russia/Putin fanboi

trey3216 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

https://www.youtube.com/@Col.DouglasMacgregor

---

lol at using Doug MacGregor as a source. He's a Russia/Putin fanboi

---

Shooting the messenger is not the way to win a point. The guy is a retired US Army Colonel and a veteran Iraq commander. Specifically, which of his points do you disagree with?