Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

---

I prefer a candidate without experience. No more swamp.

A little sleight of hand going on here.

I’d award partial credit for Vivek here, but he should understand that it’s impossible to win a battle with the left over civic religion. If you’re playing the “America is abstract ideas” game, you’ve already lost. https://t.co/mG5F0FLDwM

— Blair Nathan (@Blair_A_Nathan) July 13, 2023

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

---

I prefer a candidate without experience. No more swamp.

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

---

I prefer a candidate without experience. No more swamp.

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

---

Sometimes bureaucratic systems need to be broken up to make them more responsive in a republic. We don't want a de facto nobility.

The problem we see, ironically, is the same one our Founders faced when abandoning the Monarchy.

Monarchies depended heavily on Aristocracy. The claim was basically that farmers and tradesman would not know how to run governments, so they 'needed' a professional class to govern the masses.

That is the same argument the Establishment is making - that ordinary, inexperienced common people cannot do the job of running the government.

That was and is a lie.

Candidates should run on the issues, and offer plans to address repair, revision, replacement of existing conditions.

No staffer with more than eight years in office should be kept on. That leads to nothing but bad outcomes.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

---

I prefer a candidate without experience. No more swamp.

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

---

This really highlights the corruption and problem with DC.

Career politicians fulfill the wishes of their donors and build their cabinet with the likes of Goldman Sachs. It leads to policies that screw the middle class.

At this point we're better off having an outsider president who doesn't get anything done than we are with a career politician selling us out.

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

---

I prefer a candidate without experience. No more swamp.

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

---

This really highlights the corruption and problem with DC.

Career politicians fulfill the wishes of their donors and build their cabinet with the likes of Goldman Sachs. It leads to policies that screw the middle class.

At this point we're better off having an outsider president who doesn't get anything done than we are with a career politician selling us out.

---

There is an infrastructure that is necessary and you have to know how to use it to get things done. Alienating people doesn't do it. If you did what you say, we would be going back to step 1 every new Administration. You cannot run a company that way, never mind a Nation.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

---

I prefer a candidate without experience. No more swamp.

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

---

This really highlights the corruption and problem with DC.

Career politicians fulfill the wishes of their donors and build their cabinet with the likes of Goldman Sachs. It leads to policies that screw the middle class.

At this point we're better off having an outsider president who doesn't get anything done than we are with a career politician selling us out.

---

There is an infrastructure that is necessary and you have to know how to use it to get things done. Alienating people doesn't do it. If you did what you say, we would be going back to step 1 every new Administration. You cannot run a company that way, never mind a Nation.

---

Can't run the swamp unless you're a swamp creature, eh? That's sure to end well.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RamaSwamy is a smart guy.

I prefer him over Desantis

---

yes, he is very good choice. Hope he can pull an Obama and come from nowhere to win

---

Obama came from the US Senate, so not actually nowhere, unlike Vivek.

---

sure.. he was a nobody, empty suit for a handful of months where he literally did nothing as a senator and ran for president. Mostly nowhere

---

I think 46 months counts as more than a handful. Of course that didn't stop y'all from excoriating him as woefully unqualified. What's stopping you now?

---

please cite a single post by me
Where I did that..

I found Obama to be very average like W.. The GOP has been throwing up the absolute worst low energy canidates for several elections before Trump.. easy to see why a young high energy guy offering hope and change won.

---

Dubya was the governor of Texas. I like Ramaswamy, but how does he have comparable experience?

---

I prefer a candidate without experience. No more swamp.

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

---

This really highlights the corruption and problem with DC.

Career politicians fulfill the wishes of their donors and build their cabinet with the likes of Goldman Sachs. It leads to policies that screw the middle class.

At this point we're better off having an outsider president who doesn't get anything done than we are with a career politician selling us out.

---

There is an infrastructure that is necessary and you have to know how to use it to get things done. Alienating people doesn't do it. If you did what you say, we would be going back to step 1 every new Administration. You cannot run a company that way, never mind a Nation.

---

Joe Biden is evidence that bought and paid for Presidents aren't really running anything.

He's surrounded by handlers because of his accelerating dementia. His investors are running the show.

Oldbear83 said:

---

The problem we see, ironically, is the same one our Founders faced when abandoning the Monarchy.

Monarchies depended heavily on Aristocracy. The claim was basically that farmers and tradesman would not know how to run governments, so they 'needed' a professional class to govern the masses.

That is the same argument the Establishment is making - that ordinary, inexperienced common people cannot do the job of running the government.

That was and is a lie.

Candidates should run on the issues, and offer plans to address repair, revision, replacement of existing conditions.

No staffer with more than eight years in office should be kept on. That leads to nothing but bad outcomes.

---

Yep,

We traded a ancient landed aristocracy for new one built on money (finance) and credentialism (Ivy league degrees).

"The tragedy of all revolutions is that they merely replace one group of ruling elites with another. The wars fought in the name of replacing the old landed nobility only allowed politicians, bankers, academics, and media owners to assume the station of the ruling class."

FLBear5630 said:

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

---

I disagree. To operate in DC you need to be the most powerful or hold all or a majority of the cards. The swamp creatures will be tripping over their pencil d!cks to work with Vivek.

Competent cabinet prospects likewise will be lining up to work with a real outsider who won't let his alligator mouth overload his hummingbird @ss. Vivek knows what to do and if he can get on the debate stage I think he will turn this thing around.

I'm tired of broke d!ck politicians from Socialist Party A and Socialist Party B. If these losers continue to choke the life out of our country we are doomed.

Thee University said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

I understand the sentiment. But the reality is that if you don't know how to operate in DC, it is almost a waste as the learning curve is steep. DC is more than good ideas and desire to get things done, it is knowing how and who to work with to get them done. Business CEOs and Generals have a tough time realizing they are one part of the equation and can't just "do it". We saw that with Trump in 17-18, he had good ideas but could not work with the establishment and ended up being shut down by the end of his term.

Who knows he seems reasonable, maybe he can work with the 100 different factions that he will have to in DC. First question will be can he even put together an effective Cabinet? Trump struggled with that. I like the messages the outsiders bring, but ultimately I prefer former Governors, they get the process.

Clean out the swamp, yeah right.

---

I disagree. To operate in DC you need to be the most powerful or hold all or a majority of the cards. The swamp creatures will be tripping over their pencil d!cks to work with Vivek.

Competent cabinet prospects likewise will be lining up to work with a real outsider who won't let his alligator mouth overload his hummingbird @ss. Vivek knows what to do and if he can get on the debate stage I think he will turn this thing around.

I'm tired of broke d!ck politicians from Socialist Party A and Socialist Party B. If these losers continue to choke the life out of our country we are doomed.

---

Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

---

Yes. I've seen the demographics, the "party" affiliation and the last 2 elections. The past several elections have truly exposed how far down the US has sunk. Since I've been able to vote:

1. Peanut farmer
2. B actor
3. Passive, limp-wristed, purse carrying insider
4. Governor of one of the poorest and backwards states in America
5. Daddy's lil boy
6. Token appeasement
7. Billionaire egomaniacal idiot loser
8. ******ed, world class liar & career politician

All of these Presidents reflect poorly on what America has become. We keep digging a deeper hole.

You simply get elected. People fawn over important or famous people. Shallow America.

Thee University said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

---

Yes. I've seen the demographics, the "party" affiliation and the last 2 elections. The past several elections have truly exposed how far down the US has sunk. Since I've been able to vote:

1. Peanut farmer
2. B actor
3. Passive, limp-wristed, purse carrying insider
4. Governor of one of the poorest and backwards states in America
5. Daddy's lil boy
6. Token appeasement
7. Billionaire egomaniacal idiot loser
8. ******ed, world class liar & career politician

All of these Presidents reflect poorly on what America has become. We keep digging a deeper hole.

You simply get elected. People fawn over important or famous people. Shallow America.

---

4 is a bit of a stretch..

4th and Inches said:

---

Thee University said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

---

Yes. I've seen the demographics, the "party" affiliation and the last 2 elections. The past several elections have truly exposed how far down the US has sunk. Since I've been able to vote:

1. Peanut farmer
2. B actor
3. Passive, limp-wristed, purse carrying insider
4. Governor of one of the poorest and backwards states in America
5. Daddy's lil boy
6. Token appeasement
7. Billionaire egomaniacal idiot loser
8. ******ed, world class liar & career politician

All of these Presidents reflect poorly on what America has become. We keep digging a deeper hole.

You simply get elected. People fawn over important or famous people. Shallow America.

---

4 is a bit of a stretch..

---

2 was also Governor of California

Thee University said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

---

Yes. I've seen the demographics, the "party" affiliation and the last 2 elections. The past several elections have truly exposed how far down the US has sunk. Since I've been able to vote:

1. Peanut farmer
2. B actor
3. Passive, limp-wristed, purse carrying insider
4. Governor of one of the poorest and backwards states in America
5. Daddy's lil boy
6. Token appeasement
7. Billionaire egomaniacal idiot loser
8. ******ed, world class liar & career politician

All of these Presidents reflect poorly on what America has become. We keep digging a deeper hole.

You simply get elected. People fawn over important or famous people. Shallow America.

---

https://twitter.com/mask_*******/status/1679688417519497222?s=46&t=M0bDAyo9sOCd-LdXt_rpmA

Thee University said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

---

Yes. I've seen the demographics, the "party" affiliation and the last 2 elections. The past several elections have truly exposed how far down the US has sunk. Since I've been able to vote:

1. Peanut farmer
2. B actor
3. Passive, limp-wristed, purse carrying insider
4. Governor of one of the poorest and backwards states in America
5. Daddy's lil boy
6. Token appeasement
7. Billionaire egomaniacal idiot loser
8. ******ed, world class liar & career politician

All of these Presidents reflect poorly on what America has become. We keep digging a deeper hole.

You simply get elected. People fawn over important or famous people. Shallow America.

---

Yeah, American does nothing right and hasn't since???? Why start with Carter.

Ford - Speaker of the House that pardoned Nixon
Nixon - enough said.
LBJ - Viet Nam
JFK - Cuba, almost got us in a nuclear war
Eisenhower - Korea, Russia, China. For someone warning of the Industrial Military Complex he sure made alot of enemies
Truman - Nuclear bomb and Marshall Plan (big overseas spending)
FDR - need we say more, got us in WW2, New Deal
Hoover - Depression
Coolidge - Depression
Harding - SWAMP
Wilson - Won't even comment.
Taft
TEDDY! A good one right?

So really we haven't had a good President since Teddy?????? Or would his Trust busting, regulations, white cruise, development of a professional bureaucracy (the swamp...) make him bad too???


SO, let's ask. Who, if anybody, was up to your standard????

You are old! Taft? Wilson? Harding? Roosevelt?

I just listed those Presidents I was old enough to vote for or against. I was 18 in 1976 so I started there. These I actually watched and formed opinions on.

Thee University said:

---

You are old! Taft? Wilson? Harding? Roosevelt?

I just listed those Presidents I was old enough to vote for or against. I was 18 in 1976 so I started there. These I actually watched and formed opinions on.

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Yea...everyone but FLbear understood what you where saying.

FLbear also does not realized that by showing that list he has also reminded us how crap our leadership has been in the USA for the 20th century...and for a long time before that.

Going back even to the days of the old Republic we have had a lot of incompetent or lackluster leaders.

You can barely pick out a few good ones from over 150 years of Presidential elections.

Its been 70% mediocre, 20% bad, 10% good.

And even then most Americans would fight over the definition of "good"

Redbrickbear said:

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Thee University said:

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You are old! Taft? Wilson? Harding? Roosevelt?

I just listed those Presidents I was old enough to vote for or against. I was 18 in 1976 so I started there. These I actually watched and formed opinions on.

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Yea...everyone but FLbear understood what you where saying.

FLbear also does not realized that by showing that list he has also reminded us how crap our leadership has been in the USA for the 20th century...and for a long time before that.

Going back even to the days of the old Republic we have had a lot of incompetent or lackluster leaders.

You can barely pick out a few good ones from over 150 years of Presidential elections.

Its been 70% mediocre, 20% bad, 10% good.

And even then most Americans would fight over the definition of "good"

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It's pretty amazing. I honestly would not hire Kamala Harris or Joe Biden to work on my team much less be my president. We do not exactly have an all-star roster of Mensa presidents running for office.

Thee University said:

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You are old! Taft? Wilson? Harding? Roosevelt?

I just listed those Presidents I was old enough to vote for or against. I was 18 in 1976 so I started there. These I actually watched and formed opinions on.

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So, when in US modern history has an administration performed well? You went to Baylor I assume you and others have read US history. Who did a good job that we should emulate? You say no one in your lifetime has done well. Has anyone ever done well enough for you? You don't think that is a relevant question?

None of the yahoos I listed have done a great job. None.

It is more than the anointed man himself. The people the President chooses to surround himself with can easily make or break a President.

I am not qualified to render a grade to any President prior to 1976.

Example: Lincoln is often placed on a pedestal and fawned over. I happen to think he was a horrific President.

Thee University said:

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None of the yahoos I listed have done a great job. None.

It is more than the anointed man himself. The people the President chooses to surround himself with can easily make or break a President.

I am not qualified to render a grade to any President prior to 1976.

Example: Lincoln is often placed on a pedestal and fawned over. I happen to think he was a horrific President.

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Fair enough.

My point is there has never been a President that would be considered "good" by everyone when you dig into everything they have to do in 4 to 8 years. They may do things well, but to get those things accomplished they may have to compromise on others.

Some things they are going to punt because they realize they can't get it done and there is only so much time and so many political chips to play. So, use them where you can affect change.

Elections are about accomplishing goals and minimizing loses, knowing that you can't have no losses. That is why I laugh at the "clean the swamp" people. There is no cleaning the swamp, Trump found that out. There is only using the swamp to get done what you want. Clean out the swamp, you get authoritarianism. Democracy is messy and not clean.

In my opinion, there are 2 types of Presidents.

Effective Presidents - effective at getting their agendas into law and policy. (I may or may not like what they are enacting but they get it done). Think FDR, Reagan, Clinton and unfortunately we are seeing that Biden for the left.

Good Presidents - had policies I like and was behind. For me, Reagan, Eisenhower, Bush Sr, and JFK (last Dem that put US before personal agenda, read about him asking advice from Eisenhower when would you see that today? )

Rarely do they overlap, for me it was Reagan. He personified America. Unfortunately, Biden for all his "ineptness" is actually doing a good job of getting what he wants done, although I do not agree with a lot of it. He is using the swamp and getting his initiatives in policy, unfortunately better than Trump was able. 40 years of being inside has helped him or his team know how to get it done. Trump could have used more of that.

Redbrickbear said:

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Thee University said:

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You are old! Taft? Wilson? Harding? Roosevelt?

I just listed those Presidents I was old enough to vote for or against. I was 18 in 1976 so I started there. These I actually watched and formed opinions on.

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Its been 70% mediocre, 20% bad, 10% good.

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And it's been bad for last 14 years, really bad

Osodecentx said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Thee University said:

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You are old! Taft? Wilson? Harding? Roosevelt?

I just listed those Presidents I was old enough to vote for or against. I was 18 in 1976 so I started there. These I actually watched and formed opinions on.

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Its been 70% mediocre, 20% bad, 10% good.

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And it's been bad for last 14 years, really bad

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Yeah. At the risk of getting pounded.

At least "W" and Bill Clinton (I put Bill and Hillary in different camps. Bill was a good Administrator and was flawed, but he seemed to know in the end we have to be together. Hillary was just bad.) seemed to have pride in the US and saw us in a positive light. When push came to shove, they at least acted like we were all on the same side. I have not had that feeling since Obama, it is now us and them (for both sides).

I have no problem not agreeing on policy, but this view that the Nation is bad at the core and the factions is what is really bothering me. No one wants to bring the Nation together..

FLBear5630 said:

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Thee University said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

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Yes. I've seen the demographics, the "party" affiliation and the last 2 elections. The past several elections have truly exposed how far down the US has sunk. Since I've been able to vote:

1. Peanut farmer
2. B actor
3. Passive, limp-wristed, purse carrying insider
4. Governor of one of the poorest and backwards states in America
5. Daddy's lil boy
6. Token appeasement
7. Billionaire egomaniacal idiot loser
8. ******ed, world class liar & career politician

All of these Presidents reflect poorly on what America has become. We keep digging a deeper hole.

You simply get elected. People fawn over important or famous people. Shallow America.

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Yeah, American does nothing right and hasn't since???? Why start with Carter.

Ford - Speaker of the House that pardoned Nixon
Nixon - enough said.
LBJ - Viet Nam
JFK - Cuba, almost got us in a nuclear war
Eisenhower - Korea, Russia, China. For someone warning of the Industrial Military Complex he sure made alot of enemies
Truman - Nuclear bomb and Marshall Plan (big overseas spending)
FDR - need we say more, got us in WW2, New Deal
Hoover - Depression
Coolidge - Depression
Harding - SWAMP
Wilson - Won't even comment.
Taft
TEDDY! A good one right?

So really we haven't had a good President since Teddy?????? Or would his Trust busting, regulations, white cruise, development of a professional bureaucracy (the swamp...) make him bad too???


SO, let's ask. Who, if anybody, was up to your standard????

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Actually, JFK should be praised for preventing nuclear war with Russia. His promise to dismantle the CIA for corruption in my opinion led to is assassination. After what we are witnessing with todays CIA, FBI, and DOJ, it appears he was correct. There is a reason our government has still not released the JFK assassination documents after 60 years. And it is not national security.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Thee University said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Have you seen the demographics? Have you seen the party affiliation? Have you seen the last two elections? Conservatives can't even hold the Senate and the top GOP Candidate backed Walker in GA. So how do you get so powerful that they will be tripping over themselves?

---

Yes. I've seen the demographics, the "party" affiliation and the last 2 elections. The past several elections have truly exposed how far down the US has sunk. Since I've been able to vote:

1. Peanut farmer
2. B actor
3. Passive, limp-wristed, purse carrying insider
4. Governor of one of the poorest and backwards states in America
5. Daddy's lil boy
6. Token appeasement
7. Billionaire egomaniacal idiot loser
8. ******ed, world class liar & career politician

All of these Presidents reflect poorly on what America has become. We keep digging a deeper hole.

You simply get elected. People fawn over important or famous people. Shallow America.

---

Yeah, American does nothing right and hasn't since???? Why start with Carter.

Ford - Speaker of the House that pardoned Nixon
Nixon - enough said.
LBJ - Viet Nam
JFK - Cuba, almost got us in a nuclear war
Eisenhower - Korea, Russia, China. For someone warning of the Industrial Military Complex he sure made alot of enemies
Truman - Nuclear bomb and Marshall Plan (big overseas spending)
FDR - need we say more, got us in WW2, New Deal
Hoover - Depression
Coolidge - Depression
Harding - SWAMP
Wilson - Won't even comment.
Taft
TEDDY! A good one right?

So really we haven't had a good President since Teddy?????? Or would his Trust busting, regulations, white cruise, development of a professional bureaucracy (the swamp...) make him bad too???


SO, let's ask. Who, if anybody, was up to your standard????

---

Actually, JFK should be praised for preventing nuclear war with Russia. His promise to dismantle the CIA for corruption in my opinion led to is assassination. After what we are witnessing with todays CIA, FBI, and DOJ, it appears he was correct. There is a reason our government has still not released the JFK assassination documents after 60 years. And it is not national security.

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That WW2 generation was the last good elected officials. The last batch that understood we have to be together to withstand those that don't want freedom to suceed. Today, that is Russia and China. WW2 generation would be going crazy over China situation.

Vivek really showed up this weekend and the Turning Point Action straw poll results prove it. 51% of respondents picked this man as their 2nd choice candidate. Pretty remarkable how far he’s come in a very short amount of time. https://t.co/yJzke2HdA2

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) July 16, 2023

Vivek Ramaswamy is performing Lose Yourself at the Iowa State Fair: pic.twitter.com/mCEMIfijZM

— Dylan Wells (@dylanewells) August 12, 2023

GOP 2024 candidate Vivek Ramaswamy ‘open’ to pardon of Hunter Biden https://t.co/6qUGhTLM1O pic.twitter.com/kYShRP68Sg

— New York Post (@nypost) August 12, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

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Vivek Ramaswamy is performing Lose Yourself at the Iowa State Fair: pic.twitter.com/mCEMIfijZM

— Dylan Wells (@dylanewells) August 12, 2023

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