How To Get To Heaven When You Die

565,227 Views | 5933 Replies | Last: 10 hrs ago by Realitybites
Sam Lowry
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Oldbear83 said:

Funny, history suggests otherwise and I noticed you ducked the parts about earthly power and influence, which popes have always enjoyed and flexed.

Again, I can only laugh at the idea that the pope has any power in earthly affairs. I pray that he has some moral influence, but that would make him no different from any other religious leader.
Coke Bear
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Oldbear83 said:

Coke Bear said:

Oldbear83 said:


Jesus would tell the Pope the same thing He said to the Rich Young Ruler.

Likely with the same result.

OK, let's say they sell everything: the buildings, the art, the archives, etc.

Now the world is deprived of all of that forever. It ALL belongs to private collectors we generations will never get to enjoy it. I suppose one could argue that "it's only material possessions so, who cares?!"

Let's say all of the art, buildings, achieves generate 100 billion dollars. Is that going to eradicate world poverty, war, famine, corruption, greed? If so for how long?

I believe Jesus once said in Matthew (26:11), Mark (14:7), and John (12:8):

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me".

Now that you've sold everything, how will you manage your 1.2 billion followers?

Finally, please provide ONE organization that has done more for the poor than the Catholic Church has done for the last two millennia.


I recall a verse about giving from abundance, versus giving when it's all you have.

But go ahead and keep bragging about all that money.

What should they sell and to whom should it go?

PS. You never replied to the questions/statements in BOLD.
Coke Bear
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Oldbear83 said:

Coke Bear said:

Oldbear83 said:


Jesus would tell the Pope the same thing He said to the Rich Young Ruler.

Likely with the same result.

OK, let's say they sell everything: the buildings, the art, the archives, etc.

Now the world is deprived of all of that forever. It ALL belongs to private collectors we generations will never get to enjoy it. I suppose one could argue that "it's only material possessions so, who cares?!"

Let's say all of the art, buildings, achieves generate 100 billion dollars. Is that going to eradicate world poverty, war, famine, corruption, greed? If so for how long?

I believe Jesus once said in Matthew (26:11), Mark (14:7), and John (12:8):

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me".

Now that you've sold everything, how will you manage your 1.2 billion followers?

Finally, please provide ONE organization that has done more for the poor than the Catholic Church has done for the last two millennia.


I recall a verse about giving from abundance, versus giving when it's all you have.

But go ahead and keep bragging about all that money.

Where have I bragged about money? Are you reading too many BDT17 posts?

I have no idea how much the art, etc. is worth. I don't care. People donated these items for almost 2000 years to God so that the world could enjoy them.

The Vatican is broke, no thanks to corrupt men who failed to serve the Church. But like you said, this happens in many churches.
Oldbear83
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You're getting angry again.

We can talk again when you are calmer.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83
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Yes I did. Go back and read my response again.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Coke Bear
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Oldbear83 said:

You're getting angry again.

We can talk again when you are calmer.



I'm not angry at all. You made a false claim or misunderstood my post as bring braggadocious.

I'll restate my point.

The Church doesn't have an abundance. If it does, please cite specifically what you think is TOO much. Specifically. I will research those items and see where they came from.

How do you know what the Catholic Church has that's considered abundant?

If the Church DID sell land holding, etc., where would I go to mass on Sunday? Where would 1.2 billion Catholics go to mass? Our church buildings are part of the "abundance" that you have labeled it.

What about the millions of people who the Church helps with charity or medical aid? What happens to those people? What about the extreme poor in India that Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity serve? What about Caritas Africa or Catholic Relief Service serving over 30 countries in Africa? What happens to them when the Catholic church has to sell everything off? Literal societies would collapse.

Why doesn't your church sell everything and give it to the poor?

MANY, MANY people make this complaint about the "wealth" of the Church. It's ridiculous and not very well-founded.

If the Church was to sell everything and give it to the poor, we would struggle at first to find places to worship, but in time, it's members would start to donate again so that they could build new churches and continue to serve the poor and the sick.

Finally, post never laid out a plan, you just stated that you would give of your abundance.

You also never presented an organization that has done more for the world's poor than the Catholic Church.
Realitybites
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To be fair, I don't think that anyone within the protestant/evangelical world - the movement that brought pentecostalism and prosperity preaching into the world - should be criticizing Roman Catholicism about resource management. E.W. Kenyon, the founder of the Word of Faith movement, was a Baptist minister.



And Joel Osteen is the Gavin Newsom of Kenneth Copelands.
xfrodobagginsx
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Maybe they are BOTH wrong?
xfrodobagginsx
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Sam Lowry said:

Oldbear83 said:

Funny, history suggests otherwise and I noticed you ducked the parts about earthly power and influence, which popes have always enjoyed and flexed.

Again, I can only laugh at the idea that the pope has any power in earthly affairs. I pray that he has some moral influence, but that would make him no different from any other religious leader.


The Pope has no authority over Scripture. Scripture is God's Word.
Oldbear83
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good evening, folks;

Just popping in with an observation which is obvious, yet many of us sometimes forget.

Not giving details, but my wife had to go to the ER yesterday and will be discharged tomorrow. The problem turns out to be something we can address, but it came up sudden and was pretty serious for a while.

We all care about our opinion. But let's not let the internet distract us from making sure our loved ones know they are loved, and we are focused on them far more than our online games.

Because you never know when things may change.

Thanks for reading, God bless all, and good night.


That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Coke Bear
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I'll certainly (& I'm sure everyone else will be too) be praying for her.

God Bless!
Oldbear83
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Coke Bear said:

I'll certainly (& I'm sure everyone else will be too) be praying for her.

God Bless!

Thanks Coke Bear.

It was scary for a while.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Realitybites
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Oldbear83 said:

good evening, folks;

Just popping in with an observation which is obvious, yet many of us sometimes forget.

Not giving details, but my wife had to go to the ER yesterday and will be discharged tomorrow. The problem turns out to be something we can address, but it came up sudden and was pretty serious for a while.

We all care about our opinion. But let's not let the internet distract us from making sure our loved ones know they are loved, and we are focused on them far more than our online games.

Because you never know when things may change.

Thanks for reading, God bless all, and good night.





Glad that it was something they could handle and she'll be coming home.

Added to the prayer list.
Oldbear83
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Thanks RB, we still have to see a specialist, but at least she's stabilized and we know what to do.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
xfrodobagginsx
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Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet
xfrodobagginsx
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Oldbear83 said:

Thanks RB, we still have to see a specialist, but at least she's stabilized and we know what to do.


I am very sorry about your wife. I hope she will be ok
xfrodobagginsx
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Stay warm out there everyone right now it is -5, where I am and falling
xfrodobagginsx
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hope you all had a great weekend
Realitybites
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For millenia, it was a given that Christian families buried those who had fallen asleep in the Lord while pagans burned their dead through cremation. In modernity as neoplatonism and gnosticism have in turn crept back in to Christian circles, both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism have accepted cremation as an acceptable practice for Christians.

Here is why it isn't.

""The Body is Not the Soul's Garbage" ~ Cremation: the last, final illusion of modern pseudo-civilization
By Fr. Charalambos Livios Papadopoulos

If the body has no worth, then neither does the soul. The body is not the soul's garbage, to be burned in the landfills of our "pseudo-civilization." You see, we have this "modern," "rational" idea that cremation is simply a technical solution: cleaner, more efficient, more ecological, less space, less "trouble." But this is precisely where the problem lies. Because the real question is not, "What is more practical?" The real question is: what kind of civilization are we, when we consider it normal to burn a human being?

If someone were burned alive, we would call it horror, a crime, unthinkable violence. And now, suddenly, because he is dead, the very same act is presented as a "choice." A nice word: choice. This is the idolization of life. Ideology is not that we tell lies. It is that we make the lie appear natural: to appear "neutral," to appear "civilized." But the burning of human beings is precisely the opposite: it is the point at which civilization reveals its hidden barbarity.

For what does cremation say? It says: "the human being is finished." And when we say "finished," we do not simply mean that he has died. No. We mean something deeper: that now you can do whatever you want with the body, because it is nothing. It is residue. It is garbage with no value anymore. Get rid of it. And this is the modern thinking: the body as garbage.

And yet, the cremation of the dead often reveals a deep perception that the body no longer has value, that we can do whatever we want with it: make it disappear, throw it away, burn it. But the body is not garbage. The body is a temple, it is history, it is a person. It is the human being whom I loved, whom I kissed, whom I baptized, whom I communed, for whom I wept.

The body is the earth, the place and the space of my soul. Every one of its cells is my history, what I was and what I became in this life.

You know, the body was and always is a "problem." The body smells, the body decays, the body reminds us that we are mortal. And our culture hates this reminder. It cannot endure our corruptibility. It wants to make the body disappear, not simply to bury it. For nothing to remain. To become dust.

As if to say: I do not want even the memory of materiality.

And here something appears that the Orthodox and Christianity in its most radical form in general proclaim: matter is not a mistake. The body is not inferior to the soul.

We do not have here a "spirituality" of the neo-Platonic type, where the body is the prison of the soul. No. Exactly the opposite: matter is glorified. Matter is sanctified. Matter becomes the place of God. The place and space of love.

The scandal is the Incarnation. God enters into matter. Therefore, matter is not "abandonment"; it is encounter.
And here is the real scandal of Orthodox thought and experience: Christianity is not a disembodied religion, nor a philosophy that despises matter. Orthodox theology is not Neoplatonism.

It does not say that matter is evil and must be eliminated. On the contrary, Orthodoxy is the glory of Matter, the deification of Matter. For God Himself became man: He took a body, He took blood, He took flesh. Matter in the Church is sacred: water, oil, bread, wine all are sanctified, by Christ, all become bearers of Grace. And perhaps here lies the most violent aspect of cremation: it is not simply the management of a dead body. It is an act of denial, a symbolic declaration: I do not want anything material to exist that reminds me that the human being has eternal value.

That is why the relics of the Saints are so disturbing to the modern consciousness. A relic, a bone, matter that exudes fragrance this is the most irrational thing for "rational" modernity. And precisely for that reason it is so powerful: the relic is the point where matter refuses to become garbage. And here perhaps we must say the simplest thing: the human being is not a soul that merely "wears" a body. He is a body with a soul, in absolute equality and value.

A human being without a body is a ghost; a human being without a soul is a corpse.

So, yes: cremation is the last, final illusion of our pseudo-civilization that it can discard matter and keep only the "meaning." But when you discard matter, in the end you discard meaning as well."

So do not buy into the lies of modernity. As you age, make proper preparations for the day your body will fall asleep in the Lord as your soul goes to be with Him. A proper Christian funeral, not just a celebration of life, that will allow those who are left behind to reflect on their own mortality and come to follow Christ if they have not done so yet. And yes, a grave in which your body will rest until on that final day, at the sound of the last trumpet, it will rise incorruptible and restored.
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