Oldbear83 said:

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Funny, history suggests otherwise and I noticed you ducked the parts about earthly power and influence, which popes have always enjoyed and flexed.

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Again, I can only laugh at the idea that the pope has any power in earthly affairs. I pray that he has some moral influence, but that would make him no different from any other religious leader.

Oldbear83 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Jesus would tell the Pope the same thing He said to the Rich Young Ruler.

Likely with the same result.

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OK, let's say they sell everything: the buildings, the art, the archives, etc.

Now the world is deprived of all of that forever. It ALL belongs to private collectors we generations will never get to enjoy it. I suppose one could argue that "it's only material possessions so, who cares?!"

Let's say all of the art, buildings, achieves generate 100 billion dollars. Is that going to eradicate world poverty, war, famine, corruption, greed? If so for how long?

I believe Jesus once said in Matthew (26:11), Mark (14:7), and John (12:8):

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me".

Now that you've sold everything, how will you manage your 1.2 billion followers?

Finally, please provide ONE organization that has done more for the poor than the Catholic Church has done for the last two millennia.

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I recall a verse about giving from abundance, versus giving when it's all you have.

But go ahead and keep bragging about all that money.

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What should they sell and to whom should it go?

PS. You never replied to the questions/statements in BOLD.

Oldbear83 said:

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Coke Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Jesus would tell the Pope the same thing He said to the Rich Young Ruler.

Likely with the same result.

---

OK, let's say they sell everything: the buildings, the art, the archives, etc.

Now the world is deprived of all of that forever. It ALL belongs to private collectors we generations will never get to enjoy it. I suppose one could argue that "it's only material possessions so, who cares?!"

Let's say all of the art, buildings, achieves generate 100 billion dollars. Is that going to eradicate world poverty, war, famine, corruption, greed? If so for how long?

I believe Jesus once said in Matthew (26:11), Mark (14:7), and John (12:8):

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me".

Now that you've sold everything, how will you manage your 1.2 billion followers?

Finally, please provide ONE organization that has done more for the poor than the Catholic Church has done for the last two millennia.

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I recall a verse about giving from abundance, versus giving when it's all you have.

But go ahead and keep bragging about all that money.

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Where have I bragged about money? Are you reading too many BDT17 posts?

I have no idea how much the art, etc. is worth. I don't care. People donated these items for almost 2000 years to God so that the world could enjoy them.

The Vatican is broke, no thanks to corrupt men who failed to serve the Church. But like you said, this happens in many churches.

You're getting angry again.

We can talk again when you are calmer.

Yes I did. Go back and read my response again.

Oldbear83 said:

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You're getting angry again.

We can talk again when you are calmer.

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I'm not angry at all. You made a false claim or misunderstood my post as bring braggadocious.

I'll restate my point.

The Church doesn't have an abundance. If it does, please cite specifically what you think is TOO much. Specifically. I will research those items and see where they came from.

How do you know what the Catholic Church has that's considered abundant?

If the Church DID sell land holding, etc., where would I go to mass on Sunday? Where would 1.2 billion Catholics go to mass? Our church buildings are part of the "abundance" that you have labeled it.

What about the millions of people who the Church helps with charity or medical aid? What happens to those people? What about the extreme poor in India that Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity serve? What about Caritas Africa or Catholic Relief Service serving over 30 countries in Africa? What happens to them when the Catholic church has to sell everything off? Literal societies would collapse.

Why doesn't your church sell everything and give it to the poor?

MANY, MANY people make this complaint about the "wealth" of the Church. It's ridiculous and not very well-founded.

If the Church was to sell everything and give it to the poor, we would struggle at first to find places to worship, but in time, it's members would start to donate again so that they could build new churches and continue to serve the poor and the sick.

Finally, post never laid out a plan, you just stated that you would give of your abundance.

You also never presented an organization that has done more for the world's poor than the Catholic Church.

To be fair, I don't think that anyone within the protestant/evangelical world - the movement that brought pentecostalism and prosperity preaching into the world - should be criticizing Roman Catholicism about resource management. E.W. Kenyon, the founder of the Word of Faith movement, was a Baptist minister.



And Joel Osteen is the Gavin Newsom of Kenneth Copelands.

Maybe they are BOTH wrong?

Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Funny, history suggests otherwise and I noticed you ducked the parts about earthly power and influence, which popes have always enjoyed and flexed.

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Again, I can only laugh at the idea that the pope has any power in earthly affairs. I pray that he has some moral influence, but that would make him no different from any other religious leader.

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The Pope has no authority over Scripture. Scripture is God's Word.

good evening, folks;

Just popping in with an observation which is obvious, yet many of us sometimes forget.

Not giving details, but my wife had to go to the ER yesterday and will be discharged tomorrow. The problem turns out to be something we can address, but it came up sudden and was pretty serious for a while.

We all care about our opinion. But let's not let the internet distract us from making sure our loved ones know they are loved, and we are focused on them far more than our online games.

Because you never know when things may change.

Thanks for reading, God bless all, and good night.

I'll certainly (& I'm sure everyone else will be too) be praying for her.

God Bless!

Coke Bear said:

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I'll certainly (& I'm sure everyone else will be too) be praying for her.

God Bless!

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Thanks Coke Bear.

It was scary for a while.

Oldbear83 said:

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good evening, folks;

Just popping in with an observation which is obvious, yet many of us sometimes forget.

Not giving details, but my wife had to go to the ER yesterday and will be discharged tomorrow. The problem turns out to be something we can address, but it came up sudden and was pretty serious for a while.

We all care about our opinion. But let's not let the internet distract us from making sure our loved ones know they are loved, and we are focused on them far more than our online games.

Because you never know when things may change.

Thanks for reading, God bless all, and good night.

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Glad that it was something they could handle and she'll be coming home.

Added to the prayer list.

Thanks RB, we still have to see a specialist, but at least she's stabilized and we know what to do.

Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet