Duh, sorry guys , I got interrupted as I was typing my response and just messed it. Yes I was referring to the first commandment.

Holy Martyrs Agricola and Vitalis of Bologna (304 A.D.)

Saint Ambrose of Milan informs us that Agricola was a man of Bologna, whose behavior in the world had engaged the affection of the idolaters amongst whom he lived. Vitalis, his slave, learned from him the Christian faith, and first received the crown; for the servant and the freeman are one and the same thing in Christ, nor is there any difference from their condition in their reward.

They were both seized during the reign of Diocletian, and Vitalis first put to the torture. He ceased not to praise God so long as he had the use of his tongue; and seeing no part of his body left which was not covered with wounds and blood, he prayed Jesus Christ to receive his soul, and to bestow on him that crown which his angel had shown him. His prayer was no sooner ended than he delivered his soul to God.

Agricola's execution was deferred out of a cruel compassion, that time and the sight of the sufferings of his faithful servant might daunt his resolution. But he was animated and encouraged by such an example. Whereupon the affection of the judges and people was converted into fury; and the martyr was hung on a cross, and his body pierced with so many huge nails that the number of his wounds surpassed that of his limbs.

The bodies of the martyrs were laid in the burial place of the Jews.

Saints Agricola and Vitalis, pray for us.

To be saved we must believe that God is our creator and has the ultimate plan for the universe.
In addition one must believe that God sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to earth as a gift to mankind to die on the Cross for our sins. And we must believe he arose from the dead on the third day and ascended to His Father's side.
Therefore we must ask for forgiveness for our many sins from our Heavenly Father and profess our belief that Jesus is our Lord and Savior.

I recently lost my wife of many years. Believe me when I say the adjustment and loneliness involved in being in a house we shared together for years without her is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. But through the grieving process and a Grief/Share Class at our Church, I have become closer to God. I Pray every night where I did not before. And quite honestly, I believe the hardest thing for me is to completely turn my life over to Christ. That folks is not as easy as it may appear. But that is what we all should do. God will provide the comfort, the way forward, even in the most difficult of circumstances. All of us will still experience difficulties in life, but through faith and belief, the love and understanding from God and Jesus Christ is always there for all of us.

I know God has given me strength when I needed it the most.

And He will be there for all of you also.

God Bless,

Lovic

MICHAEL W SMITH THERE IS NONE LIKE YOU:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

If you have Jesus and his literal words, then why do you reject his literal words when he says "Whoever eats my flesh HAS eternal life"??

---

I don't reject it. I say a resounding "AMEN!" to it. As a matter of fact, when the priest presents each person with the Eucharist at communion he says to him, "Body of Christ." Each communicate response with "Amen."

Jesus never says that one couldn't lose enteral life.

"See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" Rom 11:22

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

I have clearly shown how the literal interpretation is biblically and logically untenable. I have also shown how it contradicts even your own Catholic beliefs. Neither you, nor Realitybites have argued anything valid to rebut this. You can't, it's impossible. The only way for you to do it is either employ a pick-and-choose method of interpretation, or to employ a level of intellectually honesty that approaches the level of ridiculousness like Realitybites did when he was forced to argue that "THIS IS my body" is NOT referring to the bread that Jesus was holding at that very moment. I know you saw that, and I know you know that was ridiculous. And I know that you know you'll run the risk of arguing something just as ridiculous if you try to justify your interpretation. So why not just concede the logic of my argument? THINK FOR YOURSELF. Why let "tradition" override your own sense of reason and rationality? Talking to you truly is like talking to someone whose mind is brainwashed in a cult.

---

Your argument is NOT logical. You have disregarded what Jesus say for your very loose interpretation of the words of Jesus which completely reject what the whole chapter is about. You reject what has been taught and documented by apostles (Paul) and their disciples (Ignatius).

I will agree with you that Jesus DID hold himself in his hands at the Last Supper.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

You don't stand confidently with Jesus' words, you stand confidently with your tradition's interpretation of them, and you'll shun your own sense of logic and reason to do so. And you're putting all your trust in 2000 years of human fallibility.

---

No, I stand confidently with exactly what Jesus said and its exactly what he meant. I put all my trust into 2000 years of infallibility in His teaching. If not, then you are saying that Jesus is a liar when he promised the "Gates of hell would not prevail against it."

PS. I see that you failed to address the Eucharistic Miracles that have happened. Do you believe that miracles still happen?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

The bible says we believers are also seeds; but never as THE seed of the Church. You keep avoiding my question - do you agree that it's better and more fitting to say that JESUS is the seed of the Church, rather than martyrs? You and Realitybites have continually avoided answering this question, and it is very curious. It is very curious as to why you and him are so resistant to exalt Jesus above the saints in this way. No true Christian should have any problem with that whatsoever, in fact, they'd likely agree wholeheartedly with a resounding "Amen!".

---

The Church is the body of Christ. Jesus is the head and we are the body. So if we, the church, are the body, then it's OK to say that the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

I will keep beating that drum until it is adequately answered. You only explained your deification of saints by simply denying that you're doing it. That isn't an explanation. If I were to show adoration of another woman other than my wife, throw festivals for her, call her often, give her gifts, have pictures of her all around the house, kiss her, and go through her to ask you things instead of ask you directly myself - my wife would rightfully be jealous and be correct in saying I am elevating that other woman up to her level, that I'm even being unfaithful as a husband. If my "explanation" is simply "no, I keep telling you, I'm not doing that - quit beating that drum!" then it's quite obvious to any rational person that my defense is insanely inadequate. You ARE dong that, whether you realize it or not, or whether you want to admit it or not. This is what you're dong with Mary and the saints.

---

I would say that your wife is very insecure and (like you) doesn't understand theology.

Mary is the greatest of all God's creatures. No one is deifying saints except for you in your mind.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Question for you: do you agree with King Solomon when he declared in I Kings 8:39 "then hear in heaven your dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to all his ways (for you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind)," ??

---

I agree with all 73 books of scripture.

Do you agree that only God was in heaven when Solomon wrote this? (which the possible execption of Enoch)

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

You obviously have a sore spot about The Glories of Mary. I don't blame you. You should. It remains as the most egregious example of the errors of the Roman Catholic Church. It is obvious to any honest rational person that the contents of those prayers equal idolatry and blatant heresy. Any person who claims to be a Christian who does not have a BIG problem with those prayers, I seriously question that they are truly a Christian. Your response to my bringing it up was to mock that I even brought it up. I think this shows you KNOW how wrong those prayers are, but you have to fight against me in a way without actually admitting it.

---

No, actually I find it extremely funny that you believe The Glories of Mary is your "gotcha" against Catholicism. I've presented an outstanding article on defense of the prayer. I've also stated that even JPII, who had an intense devotion to our Blessed Mother, stated that he understands how today's man can have trouble with the language of the prayer, but still stands in defense of it. You don't like the language because you don't understand the context in which it is written.

St. Alphonsus Liguori unequivocally affirms Catholic Church teaching that Jesus is uncreated God and that his Blessed Mother is one of his creatures.

Your magic bullet is nothing more than a blank.

Still love seeing you Catholics and Baptists (non dem) going at over doctrine that has nothing to do with how one live a life of faith in Jesus Christ.
One has to suspend reason and science to a Catholic or Baptist.
For Coke and Busy D. Doctrine trumps a scientific reality that we all live in. Existentialism is the remembrance we live now in a scientific world and we dropped a belief in the supernatural whether Catholic or Evangelical. To claim to believe in the supernatural when physics says otherwise and you personally rely on it every time you walk out the door or start your car. You live in a physics world and believe in a fantasy faith that gives you parking spaces. God is real in love and in our relationships with God, our neighbor and ourselves. But "Mary" who has a history made up by the Catholic Church and "Harmonizing the Scriptures" which is a made up understanding of scriptures. Mary's history of perpetual virginity although it maybe helpful spiritually to Catholics is not. scriptural witness. Harmonizing the scripture is simply a fantasy doctrine that ignores history, cultural context, and the messy transmission of scripture from oral to written. history to re-copying of texts.
My apologies for my bluntness but a evangelical/Catholic faith is doomed. As Jesus says, "You are blind guys." He was talking to really, really doctrinaire Pharisees who were out of touch with the reality of God's love.
Certainly, I do not belittle the faith of my Catholic and evangelical brothers here on this board. I see your faith in Jesus Christ lived out in a real world. You motivated by your love for Christ; hence, neighbor. I wish you extend that same grace to me as a faithful follower of Jesus.
If you lay aside doctrine and affirm each other real world faith you would do well by me and those who differ with you. There is too much holier than thou.
i repeat I don't doubt your real faith in Jesus Christ just your dogmatic thinking.
With our real world faith I think we can live in harmony.
I am belittling your doctrines but not your faith. There is a difference.
Now, as our founder said, "But it is sure, there is a special love that we owe to those who love God. So David: "All my delight is upon the saints that are in the earth, and upon such as excel in virtue." And so a greater than he: "A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another: as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love one to another" (John 13:34, 35)."
This is you Coke and Dusty "All my delight is upon the saints that are in the earth, and upon such as excel in virtue." I delight in your genuine real world faith.

Waco1947 said:

---

Still love seeing you Catholics and Baptists (non dem) going at over doctrine that has nothing to do with how one live a life of faith in Jesus Christ.
One has to suspend reason and science to a Catholic or Baptist.
For Coke and Busy D. Doctrine trumps a scientific reality that we all live in. Existentialism is the remembrance we live now in a scientific world and we dropped a belief in the supernatural whether Catholic or Evangelical. To claim to believe in the supernatural when physics says otherwise and you personally rely on it every time you walk out the door or start your car. You live in a physics world and believe in a fantasy faith that gives you parking spaces. God is real in love and in our relationships with God, our neighbor and ourselves. But "Mary" who has a history made up by the Catholic Church and "Harmonizing the Scriptures" which is a made up understanding of scriptures. Mary's history of perpetual virginity although it maybe helpful spiritually to Catholics is not. scriptural witness. Harmonizing the scripture is simply a fantasy doctrine that ignores history, cultural context, and the messy transmission of scripture from oral to written. history to re-copying of texts.
My apologies for my bluntness but a evangelical/Catholic faith is doomed. As Jesus says, "You are blind guys." He was talking to really, really doctrinaire Pharisees who were out of touch with the reality of God's love.
Certainly, I do not belittle the faith of my Catholic and evangelical brothers here on this board. I see your faith in Jesus Christ lived out in a real world. You motivated by your love for Christ; hence, neighbor. I wish you extend that same grace to me as a faithful follower of Jesus.
If you lay aside doctrine and affirm each other real world faith you would do well by me and those who differ with you. There is too much holier than thou.
i repeat I don't doubt your real faith in Jesus Christ just your dogmatic thinking.
With our real world faith I think we can live in harmony.
I am belittling your doctrines but not your faith. There is a difference.
Now, as our founder said, "But it is sure, there is a special love that we owe to those who love God. So David: "All my delight is upon the saints that are in the earth, and upon such as excel in virtue." And so a greater than he: "A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another: as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love one to another" (John 13:34, 35)."
This is you Coke and Dusty "All my delight is upon the saints that are in the earth, and upon such as excel in virtue." I delight in your genuine real world faith.

---

you want us to use science of nature to explain our supernatural God?

LoL

Questions that deal with supernatural explanations are, by definition, beyond the realm of nature and hence, also beyond the realm of what can be studied by science.

Your real world faith is not in God but in mans understanding of the world around him.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
If you have Jesus and his literal words, then why do you reject his literal words when he says "Whoever eats my flesh HAS eternal life"??

---

I don't reject it. I say a resounding "AMEN!" to it. As a matter of fact, when the priest presents each person with the Eucharist at communion he says to him, "Body of Christ." Each communicate response with "Amen."

Jesus never says that one couldn't lose enteral life.

---

But you DO reject it. You reject it when you believe that a non-believer is NOT saved by eating that bread. Because you're saying that Jesus is wrong when he says "whoever" and "HAS".

You're also denying it when you say that you can still lose your salvation after eating that bread. You're contradicting Jesus' direct claim that the person "HAS" eternal life. If they HAVE eternal life when eating that bread, then it's eternal from that point - if you're saying you can lose it after that point, then you're saying Jesus' declaration is false, that it is NOT eternal from that point.

You can't argue around this. It's inescapable. I know you think you can, and you'll most certainly try. But logically, your argument is untenable. It fails. Whether you accept it or not.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
I have clearly shown how the literal interpretation is biblically and logically untenable. I have also shown how it contradicts even your own Catholic beliefs. Neither you, nor Realitybites have argued anything valid to rebut this. You can't, it's impossible. The only way for you to do it is either employ a pick-and-choose method of interpretation, or to employ a level of intellectually honesty that approaches the level of ridiculousness like Realitybites did when he was forced to argue that "THIS IS my body" is NOT referring to the bread that Jesus was holding at that very moment. I know you saw that, and I know you know that was ridiculous. And I know that you know you'll run the risk of arguing something just as ridiculous if you try to justify your interpretation. So why not just concede the logic of my argument? THINK FOR YOURSELF. Why let "tradition" override your own sense of reason and rationality? Talking to you truly is like talking to someone whose mind is brainwashed in a cult.

---

Your argument is NOT logical. You have disregarded what Jesus say for your very loose interpretation of the words of Jesus which completely reject what the whole chapter is about. You reject what has been taught and documented by apostles (Paul) and their disciples (Ignatius).

I will agree with you that Jesus DID hold himself in his hands at the Last Supper.

---

It is logical. If Jesus' body is that bread, and eating that bread is eating Jesus' literal flesh, then the moment the disciples at that bread they were saved if Jesus' literal words ("whoever eats my flesh HAS eternal life") are to be believed. It would mean they were saved at the Last Supper, not after Jesus' death and resurrection.

Moreover, it would mean that anyone could eat that bread and be saved, regardless of their belief. If you disagree with this, then you're disagreeing with Jesus' literal and direct words "WHOEVER eats my flesh..." You're putting a condition on it. Jesus did not.

Also, it would mean that Jesus' body was sacrificed during the Last Supper, not on the cross.

It would also mean that Jesus could just save the whole world by making more of this bread, and having everyone eat it. It would mean that his torture and crucifixion could have been completely unnecessary.

So, obviously these things can't be true. Therefore you're literal interpretation can't be true.

Sir, if you can't understand this, then you're just not a logical person, or you're just in denial.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
You don't stand confidently with Jesus' words, you stand confidently with your tradition's interpretation of them, and you'll shun your own sense of logic and reason to do so. And you're putting all your trust in 2000 years of human fallibility.

---

No, I stand confidently with exactly what Jesus said and its exactly what he meant. I put all my trust into 2000 years of infallibility in His teaching. If not, then you are saying that Jesus is a liar when he promised the "Gates of hell would not prevail against it."

PS. I see that you failed to address the Eucharistic Miracles that have happened. Do you believe that miracles still happen?

---

Your mistake is believing that the failure of the Catholic tradition is a defeat of Jesus' Church.

And there is no need to address a "miracle" that isn't verifiable. Other religions claim miracles, with their "proof" as well, that requires faith. We should only have faith in Jesus, and in his Word.

Coke Bear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

The bible says we believers are also seeds; but never as THE seed of the Church. You keep avoiding my question - do you agree that it's better and more fitting to say that JESUS is the seed of the Church, rather than martyrs? You and Realitybites have continually avoided answering this question, and it is very curious. It is very curious as to why you and him are so resistant to exalt Jesus above the saints in this way. No true Christian should have any problem with that whatsoever, in fact, they'd likely agree wholeheartedly with a resounding "Amen!".

---

The Church is the body of Christ. Jesus is the head and we are the body. So if we, the church, are the body, then it's OK to say that the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

I will keep beating that drum until it is adequately answered. You only explained your deification of saints by simply denying that you're doing it. That isn't an explanation. If I were to show adoration of another woman other than my wife, throw festivals for her, call her often, give her gifts, have pictures of her all around the house, kiss her, and go through her to ask you things instead of ask you directly myself - my wife would rightfully be jealous and be correct in saying I am elevating that other woman up to her level, that I'm even being unfaithful as a husband. If my "explanation" is simply "no, I keep telling you, I'm not doing that - quit beating that drum!" then it's quite obvious to any rational person that my defense is insanely inadequate. You ARE dong that, whether you realize it or not, or whether you want to admit it or not. This is what you're dong with Mary and the saints.

---

I would say that your wife is very insecure and (like you) doesn't understand theology.

Mary is the greatest of all God's creatures. No one is deifying saints except for you in your mind.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Question for you: do you agree with King Solomon when he declared in I Kings 8:39 "then hear in heaven your dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to all his ways (for you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind)," ??

---

I agree with all 73 books of scripture.

Do you agree that only God was in heaven when Solomon wrote this? (which the possible execption of Enoch)

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

You obviously have a sore spot about The Glories of Mary. I don't blame you. You should. It remains as the most egregious example of the errors of the Roman Catholic Church. It is obvious to any honest rational person that the contents of those prayers equal idolatry and blatant heresy. Any person who claims to be a Christian who does not have a BIG problem with those prayers, I seriously question that they are truly a Christian. Your response to my bringing it up was to mock that I even brought it up. I think this shows you KNOW how wrong those prayers are, but you have to fight against me in a way without actually admitting it.

---

No, actually I find it extremely funny that you believe The Glories of Mary is your "gotcha" against Catholicism. I've presented an outstanding article on defense of the prayer. I've also stated that even JPII, who had an intense devotion to our Blessed Mother, stated that he understands how today's man can have trouble with the language of the prayer, but still stands in defense of it. You don't like the language because you don't understand the context in which it is written.

St. Alphonsus Liguori unequivocally affirms Catholic Church teaching that Jesus is uncreated God and that his Blessed Mother is one of his creatures.

Your magic bullet is nothing more than a blank.

---

- you're still avoiding the question. I find it strange, yet I'm not surprised, that you are so resistant to give glory to Jesus over that to the saints. See the last sentence of this post.

- if you think that from that example, that the WIFE is the one with the problem, then it explains everything about you and your beliefs. Again, see last sentence.

- if you agree with King Solomon that only God knows the heart of man, then why do you believe Mary and the saints know your heart when you pray?

- There is NO defense of those prayers. NO true Christian with the Holy Spirit would think those prayers are ok, or defend them. That includes JPII. There are no outstanding articles defending such blatant idolatry and heresy. You are stuck in a circular logic of error. It's so sad how this is so obvious but you don't see it. I'm sorry if I offend you, but in my mind it is quite clear that you are not a Christian.

Whether you believe in him or not, the Lord showed up yesterday and help Donald j Trump be elected. Give thanks unto the Lord for He is good.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Whether you believe in him or not, the Lord showed up yesterday and help Donald j Trump be elected. Give thanks unto the Lord for he is good.

---

That is something that we can all agree on. Deserving judgement, we have been granted a repreieve. We should all make good use of that.

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Still love seeing you Catholics and Baptists (non dem) going at over doctrine that has nothing to do with how one live a life of faith in Jesus Christ.
One has to suspend reason and science to a Catholic or Baptist.
For Coke and Busy D. Doctrine trumps a scientific reality that we all live in. Existentialism is the remembrance we live now in a scientific world and we dropped a belief in the supernatural whether Catholic or Evangelical. To claim to believe in the supernatural when physics says otherwise and you personally rely on it every time you walk out the door or start your car. You live in a physics world and believe in a fantasy faith that gives you parking spaces. God is real in love and in our relationships with God, our neighbor and ourselves. But "Mary" who has a history made up by the Catholic Church and "Harmonizing the Scriptures" which is a made up understanding of scriptures. Mary's history of perpetual virginity although it maybe helpful spiritually to Catholics is not. scriptural witness. Harmonizing the scripture is simply a fantasy doctrine that ignores history, cultural context, and the messy transmission of scripture from oral to written. history to re-copying of texts.
My apologies for my bluntness but a evangelical/Catholic faith is doomed. As Jesus says, "You are blind guys." He was talking to really, really doctrinaire Pharisees who were out of touch with the reality of God's love.
Certainly, I do not belittle the faith of my Catholic and evangelical brothers here on this board. I see your faith in Jesus Christ lived out in a real world. You motivated by your love for Christ; hence, neighbor. I wish you extend that same grace to me as a faithful follower of Jesus.
If you lay aside doctrine and affirm each other real world faith you would do well by me and those who differ with you. There is too much holier than thou.
i repeat I don't doubt your real faith in Jesus Christ just your dogmatic thinking.
With our real world faith I think we can live in harmony.
I am belittling your doctrines but not your faith. There is a difference.
Now, as our founder said, "But it is sure, there is a special love that we owe to those who love God. So David: "All my delight is upon the saints that are in the earth, and upon such as excel in virtue." And so a greater than he: "A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another: as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love one to another" (John 13:34, 35)."
This is you Coke and Dusty "All my delight is upon the saints that are in the earth, and upon such as excel in virtue." I delight in your genuine real world faith.

---

you want us to use science of nature to explain our supernatural God? Yes, yes I do because as I made clear you are losing a generation of potential disciples bc of your insistence that is tied to correct doctrine.

LoL

Questions that deal with supernatural explanations are, by definition, beyond the realm of nature and hence, also beyond the realm of what can be studied by science. Exactly, it cannot be studied by science but you are missing the truth that the world wants to love God but the supernatural doctrine is a bridge too far. Faith in Jesus Christ is not dependent on doctrine but about the truth in Jesus life, death and resurrection. Jesus simply lived out God's will in his life. His life on earth was the truth. "In him we live, move and have our being"

Your real world faith is not in God but in man's understanding of the world around him. Yes, you are right about me but the world around Jesus is the world He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Whether you believe in him or not, the Lord showed up yesterday and help Donald j Trump be elected. Give thanks unto the Lord for He is good.

---

Idolatry "You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:4-6 (WEB)

Psalm 107:1-2 KJV
[1] O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: For his mercy endureth for ever. [2] Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, Whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;

Tomorrow is Sunday find a good Bible believing church and attend

Waco1947 said:

---

He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

The entire Christian faith rests on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The Bible states this plainly.

"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."

1st Corinthians 15.

A rump faith that edits out the supernatural is not Christianity, and is in vain.

I havent been following this thread since it's beginning, but I remember my Ten Commandments.

As I noted on another thread:

This fella dies, goes up to the Pearly Gates and meets the Lord. And the Lord asks him why he should be let in. this fella confidently tells him, "Well, I was a long time church member, I paid my tithes, I was a deacon, I raised my children in the church, I read the Bible and prayed every night."

The Lord says, "But you supported and voted to keep in power the folks that murdered 60,000,000 of my children, aborting them."

The Guy says "But they told me it was okay. They told me that life didnt begin at conception. They told me it was okay to abort a fetus. They told me that it was okay to tell young women that it was okay to terminate children."

The Lord says "But you knew better, didnt you? You knew that I said "Thou shall not kill. You knew that I gave the gift of life. That it was precious."

The Guy starts crying. The Lord also sobs uncontrollably

The screams of 60,000,000 babies echo in the background...

---

And what do you think the Lord will say to Pastors and Priests that endorse the murder of two or three generations of children in the US?

I'm thinking of Little Dicky, the pineapples and Hitler. Over and over everyday for the rest of time... And the screams as the skulls of babies were being crushed in the womb by the butcher's forceps being played perpetually.

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

The entire Christian faith rests on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The Bible states this plainly.

"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."

1st Corinthians 15.

A rump faith that edits out the supernatural is not Christianity, and is in vain.

---

Agreed!

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

The entire Christian faith rests on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The Bible states this plainly.

"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."

1st Corinthians 15.

A rump faith that edits out the supernatural is not Christianity, and is in vain.

---

You have "rump" scripture. Paul is very clear later in I Cor. 15:35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Waco1947 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

The entire Christian faith rests on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The Bible states this plainly.

"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."

1st Corinthians 15.

A rump faith that edits out the supernatural is not Christianity, and is in vain.

---

You have "rump" scripture. Paul is very clear later in I Cor. 15:35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

---

For the hundredth time, in response to the hundred times you've posted this same argument - HOW is being raised a spiritual body not supernatural? How do you explain a spiritual body in light of your belief that we only live in a physical reality defined by physics? How in the world is being raised from death to begin with not supernatural either, for that matter??

STOP running away every time this is asked of you. Stop giving completely ridiculous responses that don't even come close to answering this. Wake up, man, and stop being such a fool. Be honest with yourself and others, and really think about what you're saying and how it makes absolutely no sense.

Quote:

---

42

---

Quote:

---

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

---

You basically just shot your argument in the foot.

With the election over, we can move on and hope that the Lord blessed this new Administration...

For those of us who expect the worst, take a moment to reflect upon how things were under Roman rule, especially during the time of Christ and afterwards. Paul says it straight, and like it or not he wrote it I didn't. We are to be good citizens, which includes being actively engaged; however, I realize that is something we just don't have the time, except to gripe. Which means you're going to continue getting what we deserve.)

Realitybites said:

---

Quote:

---

42

---

Quote:

---

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

---

You basically just shot your argument in the foot. Only if you think "spiritual" equals "supernatural"

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

The entire Christian faith rests on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The Bible states this plainly.

"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."

1st Corinthians 15.

A rump faith that edits out the supernatural is not Christianity, and is in vain.

---

You have "rump" scripture. Paul is very clear later in I Cor. 15:35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

---

For the hundredth time, in response to the hundred times you've posted this same argument - HOW is being raised a spiritual body not supernatural? How do you explain a spiritual body in light of your belief that we only live in a physical reality defined by physics? How in the world is being raised from death to begin with not supernatural either, for that matter??

STOP running away every time this is asked of you. Stop giving completely ridiculous responses that don't even come close to answering this. Wake up, man, and stop being such a fool. Be honest with yourself and others, and really think about what you're saying and how it makes absolutely no sense.

---

Spiritual is not supernatural.
Supernatural refers to phenomena or entities that are beyond the laws of nature
Spiritual refers to relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
God as supernatural force above the physics; hence capable of creating, for instance, a hurricane. Yet science (physics) says the hurricane arises from organic or natural forces.
Spiritual, for the Christian, is the force of love or justice or hope or faith in our lives. The Supernatural is of an entirely different order of force in our lives over which we have no control. The spiritual is a force over which we have control, that is, it is existential, here and now and of this world not beyond.

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

The entire Christian faith rests on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The Bible states this plainly.

"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."

1st Corinthians 15.

A rump faith that edits out the supernatural is not Christianity, and is in vain.

---

You have "rump" scripture. Paul is very clear later in I Cor. 15:35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

---

For the hundredth time, in response to the hundred times you've posted this same argument - HOW is being raised a spiritual body not supernatural? How do you explain a spiritual body in light of your belief that we only live in a physical reality defined by physics? How in the world is being raised from death to begin with not supernatural either, for that matter??

STOP running away every time this is asked of you. Stop giving completely ridiculous responses that don't even come close to answering this. Wake up, man, and stop being such a fool. Be honest with yourself and others, and really think about what you're saying and how it makes absolutely no sense.

---

Spiritual is not supernatural.
Supernatural refers to phenomena or entities that are beyond the laws of nature
Spiritual refers to relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
God as supernatural force above the physics; hence capable of creating, for instance, a hurricane. Yet science (physics) says the hurricane arises from organic or natural forces.
Spiritual, for the Christian, is the force of love or justice or hope or faith in our lives. The Supernatural is of an entirely different order of force in our lives over which we have no control. The spiritual is a force over which we have control, that is, it is existential, here and now and of this world not beyond.

---

Jesus appeared after the resurrection, what form was he?

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He came to save not by supernatural means but by love.

---

The entire Christian faith rests on the historicity of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The Bible states this plainly.

"If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."

1st Corinthians 15.

A rump faith that edits out the supernatural is not Christianity, and is in vain.

---

You have "rump" scripture. Paul is very clear later in I Cor. 15:35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

---

For the hundredth time, in response to the hundred times you've posted this same argument - HOW is being raised a spiritual body not supernatural? How do you explain a spiritual body in light of your belief that we only live in a physical reality defined by physics? How in the world is being raised from death to begin with not supernatural either, for that matter??

STOP running away every time this is asked of you. Stop giving completely ridiculous responses that don't even come close to answering this. Wake up, man, and stop being such a fool. Be honest with yourself and others, and really think about what you're saying and how it makes absolutely no sense.

---

Spiritual is not supernatural.
Supernatural refers to phenomena or entities that are beyond the laws of nature
Spiritual refers to relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
God as supernatural force above the physics; hence capable of creating, for instance, a hurricane. Yet science (physics) says the hurricane arises from organic or natural forces.
Spiritual, for the Christian, is the force of love or justice or hope or faith in our lives. The Supernatural is of an entirely different order of force in our lives over which we have no control. The spiritual is a force over which we have control, that is, it is existential, here and now and of this world not beyond.

---

This is precisely the type of clueless, ridiculous response I was talking about. You're trying to define "spiritual" in supernatural terms, yet you're insisting that they're not related. YOU EVEN STATED in your own definitions that "spiritual" refers to things which are OUTSIDE OF MATERIAL OR PHYSICAL THINGS. HOW do you not realize this?? WAKE UP.

You stated that "supernatural" refers to things beyond the laws of nature. Okay then - tell us the laws of nature that govern or define the concept of the "human spirit or soul" or the "force of love or justice or hope or faith in our lives" - two things you said defines what is "spiritual".

Okay, GO. Let's hear your answer.

Gonna have to agree with BTD on this one. The Spiritual and the Supernatural are one and the same.