nein51 said:

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RMF5630 said:

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nein51 said:

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Offer a buyout. I would happily take 75% of the funds I've paid in and would pay in vs expected payout if those funds could be rolled tax free into a 401k or investment account, for instance.

No different than when companies buy out pensions. You would be shocked how many people will take ten cents on a dollar.

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It is very different from private companies. Getting people to take $0.10 on the dollar is not a sound governmental practice. Government is supposed to look after the well being of it citizens, not see if it can bilk them out of $0.90 on the dollar!

Sorry, it is not as simple as rolling into a 401k. Who is going to do the rolling? Who is going to manage the funds and payouts? It is not saving, it is transferring cost. I way for Financial Planners to join the Government payout while screaming they are "Financially Conservative..."

The other part of the equation is that the majority of Americans may want a SS program, it is not a given that everyone thinks like this board and wants it done away. The majority of the people that want it killed seem to be those that don't need it, same with Medicare. I have yet to hear one person that relies on Medicare to say they would prefer to go find and pay for health insurance at 67 and self pay.

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You just give people the option. The amount of money I would have right now for retirement vs what SS will pay out (if anything) is staggering.

I'm not saying you force people off of SS. I'm saying you offer the option.

You have to treat SS like the pension plan at a large scale manufacturer because that's EXACTLY how it was designed. Well 90 years later we know that doesn't work and the longer people live the less you can provide it as the costs outweighs the pay in.

At some point there will be a default on SS and I would damn sure take $.50 on the dollar than $.00 which is the reality. It's my money. I paid it in. All I'm asking is an opportunity to use my money (even if at a discounted rate) to grow my personal wealth rather than continue to toss it into the ocean which is what is happening now.

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I don't see SS defaulting, there is a tough 5 year or so period that opens up after when the youger generations enter the job market. The only way to really get to a default is to do what you are saying, making it optional or a choice. Enough opt out, yeah. It looks like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me.

Personally, I do not have a problem with the I have taken out for the Fed. I don't think that SS, Medicare are an issue as I know what they go for and I understand it is not a Cadilac program but one that can accommodate at scale. I will get some benefit from my paying in and the years I paid in supported other. I am good with a cash flow model.

Income tax and other taxes being used to support things I have no idea about, that bothers me more. I would rather see a Defense Tax that goes all for Defense and a dedicated breakdown.

If I know what it goes for and I get a benefit, I am good. The cost of living in US and the opportunities that allow. Just my view.

"At some point there will be a default on SS"

In 1998 all Republicans and many Democrats would have agreed with you. But nothing was done to change SSI.

By 2009 many Republicans and some Democrats would have agreed with you. But nothing was done to change SSI.

By 2020 some Republicans but almost no Democrats would have agreed with you. But nothing was done to change SSI.

By now, very few elected officials will admit a default is possible. Just look at how they all 'handled' the debt crisis last week ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2023/senate-debt-ceiling-vote-count-result/

Senate votes to raise the debt ceiling....17 Republicans vote with the Democrats

RMF5630 said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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In caucus and conference meetings since, conservative members of the GOP have made their frustrations known. While it appears that the legislation will likely get through the House, sail through the Senate, and receive the president's signature, round the clock work continues to strip as much Republican support as possible from McCarthy's deal.

"McCarthy gave away the farm and folded like a cheap suit," one GOP aide familiar with the matter told The American Conservative. Biden and the Democrats got, "everything they wanted. It's stunning how bad he was at negotiating this," the aide continued. "No one expected it to be this bad."

"Even McConnell would have done a better job," the aide claimed.
"Calling it a 'deal' would infer that we got something valuable in exchange for being strapped with $4 trillion in new debt. This wasn't a deal. It was a shakedown, and the American people are the ones who suffer," Rep. Eli Crane of Arizona told TAC. "This is a slap in the face to every hardworking American."

Thus far, more than 30 members of the House GOP have come out to publicly oppose the deal, but sources on Capitol Hill suggest that there are many more Republicans who have privately expressed their intention to vote against it.
"McCarthy will have to rely on Dems to pass the rule," another GOP aide told TAC. Sources, however, could not confirm if the 'nay' contingent was a majority of the Republican conference. One GOP source with knowledge of the matter said that the deal will likely pass with more Democratic support than Republican support.



https://www.theamericanconservative.com/sources-speaker-chair-could-be-vacated/

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Twice as many Republicans voted "Yay" than "Nay". I have very little sympathy for the GOP and these people. When the GOP had the House, the Senate and the Presidency they couldn't get anything done due to in-fighting. Paul Ryan did everything he could to not accomplish Trump's agenda. McConnell at least tried.

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Uh no...they increased defense spending and passed some tax cuts for the rich.

They did exactly what the Republican leadership wanted them to do.

Because at the end of the day that is all the GOP donor class cares about (tax cuts and more "defense" spending)

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Can't argue.

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Me either. The idiot GOP never cut spending when it had controlled both branches of government.

The brutal reality is just a tiny fraction of total spending really is discretionary these days. The priority should be re-working entitlements, but no one has the politcal will to do that. It would require leadership, which clearly 'Murica lacks.

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Social Insecurity just needs to be phased out over 10 years.

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Gonna take longer than that.

First, you have too many that paid in and are counting on it with not enough time to change.

Second, you have to develop and implement a system that is better for the Nation. And deploy it at scale, a huge task.

Third, you need to shift those in the new system over, while maintaining the remaining SS. So you will have redundant systems and costs for a while maybe 20 years.

This move will not be money saver in the short or medium term. It will cost a lot to do what people want. A shift to private sector will cost more, always does. Medicare would be similar. If you want to save money, reform is the most cost effective. These moves are not as quick and cheap as people think.

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You're going to have to give me some examples and more details ... not sure I can think of anything the government does more efficiently than the private sector. To your comment, compare Medicare Advantage with Traditional Medicare - cheaper, better benefits, better run.

nein51 said:

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RMF5630 said:

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nein51 said:

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Offer a buyout. I would happily take 75% of the funds I've paid in and would pay in vs expected payout if those funds could be rolled tax free into a 401k or investment account, for instance.

No different than when companies buy out pensions. You would be shocked how many people will take ten cents on a dollar.

---

It is very different from private companies. Getting people to take $0.10 on the dollar is not a sound governmental practice. Government is supposed to look after the well being of it citizens, not see if it can bilk them out of $0.90 on the dollar!

Sorry, it is not as simple as rolling into a 401k. Who is going to do the rolling? Who is going to manage the funds and payouts? It is not saving, it is transferring cost. I way for Financial Planners to join the Government payout while screaming they are "Financially Conservative..."

The other part of the equation is that the majority of Americans may want a SS program, it is not a given that everyone thinks like this board and wants it done away. The majority of the people that want it killed seem to be those that don't need it, same with Medicare. I have yet to hear one person that relies on Medicare to say they would prefer to go find and pay for health insurance at 67 and self pay.

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You just give people the option. The amount of money I would have right now for retirement vs what SS will pay out (if anything) is staggering.

I'm not saying you force people off of SS. I'm saying you offer the option.

You have to treat SS like the pension plan at a large scale manufacturer because that's EXACTLY how it was designed. Well 90 years later we know that doesn't work and the longer people live the less you can provide it as the costs outweighs the pay in.

At some point there will be a default on SS and I would damn sure take $.50 on the dollar than $.00 which is the reality. It's my money. I paid it in. All I'm asking is an opportunity to use my money (even if at a discounted rate) to grow my personal wealth rather than continue to toss it into the ocean which is what is happening now.

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I agree with you in theory, but it will always end up being the worst of both worlds.
- 10% of the people will take the buyout and do amazing
- 80% of the people will keep SS
- Here is the problem - 10% of the people will take the buyout and lose all their money and and the government will end up paying them SS just like it always does bailing out union pension funds, city and state mismangement, and now student loans and billionaire Silicon Valley investors

The government has lost the desire for tough love. It believes - as long as you're part of the Klanocrat Coalition - all downside should be public and all upside is private

Breaking:

Joe Biden has signed the debt ceiling bill into law. It extends the debt limit to 2025, ensuring Biden doesn’t have to campaign against the threat of default.

This is the first major bill with Republicans having control of the House, and it had more democrat votes… pic.twitter.com/imRo6vwgtp

— 🇺🇸Travis🇺🇸 (@Travis_in_Flint) June 3, 2023