Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

---

Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

---

Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

---

Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

At least we know what an actual attempt at an insurrection looks like.

---

Well, some of us do.

---

What you meant to say was some of y'all do.

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

---

Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

---

Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

---

Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

---

I'm arguing that the rhetoric surrounding this is bs.

Peter Zeihan reported that Russia is going to shut down every military base it has around the world and that Russia's global footprint will 'disintegrate'. He also said Russia would pull out of Ukraine to defend Moscow from Wagener.

That kind of talk is absurd and was widespread

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

---

Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

---

Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

---

Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

---

I'm arguing that the rhetoric surrounding this is bs.

Peter Zeihan reported that Russia is going to shut down every military base it has around the world and that Russia's global footprint will 'disintegrate'. He also said Russia would pull out of Ukraine to defend Moscow from Wagener.

That kind of talk is absurd and was widespread

---

Wagner sent a column against an outpost defended by a small contingent of regular US military in Syria several years ago. Wagner was decimated. I think there is a Wagner account of the Wipeout on YouTube.

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

---

Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

---

Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

---

Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

---

I'm arguing that the rhetoric surrounding this is bs.

Peter Zeihan reported that Russia is going to shut down every military base it has around the world and that Russia's global footprint will 'disintegrate'. He also said Russia would pull out of Ukraine to defend Moscow from Wagener.

That kind of talk is absurd and was widespread

---

Peter freaking Zeihan . . . that's your beef? How many have heard of the guy? I had not before your post.

Some of these twitter keyboard warriors pick fights with drywall then claim victory. It's absurd.

What did Jack Poso or Sachs predict in the middle of it? I'll take a wild guess and say nothing except perhaps that it would somehow hurt Ukraine and the U.S. and help Putin.

Fri and Sat were big freaking deals. Putin and his top generals had to go on world tv. The insurgency killed Russian troops, turned others, and marched well into Russia.

I'm certainly not in a position to make predictions, but I can pretty much guarantee that Putin would rather this not have happened . . . .

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

You come at the king....you best not miss.

Omar #thewire

Another Predictive Tweet: I look forward to Pregozhin's unfortunate death by air crash by birds that caused it to explode while he was stabbed after being shot and dying from Polonium poisoning. And pour one out for he untimely aerial decompression of the many IL-76 transports…

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) June 24, 2023

---

I've got to see the wire. I hear it's fantastic.

---

Incredible. In my Top 3 with Sopranos and Breaking Bad.

The first 3 episodes are a little slow....then it Just takes off.

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Disagree

Doc and Sam have clear visions regarding this needless blood fest in Ukraine.

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Disagree

Doc and Sam have clear visions regarding this needless blood fest in Ukraine.

---

Yeah, the Clayton Williams vision

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Disagree

Doc and Sam have clear visions regarding this needless blood fest in Ukraine.

---

Yeah, the Clayton Williams vision

---

Hardly

Doubt either would have supported Clayton Williams.

Your contributions to this forum seem to be limited to random attacks.

Do you possess a college degee ?

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Disagree

Doc and Sam have clear visions regarding this needless blood fest in Ukraine.

---

Yeah, the Clayton Williams vision

---

Hardly

Doubt either would have supported Clayton Williams.

Your contributions to this forum seem to be limited to random attacks.

Do you possess a college degee ?

---

No, where would one get a degee?

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

At least we know what an actual attempt at an insurrection looks like.

---

Well, some of us do.

---

You can't tell the difference between insurrection and insolence.

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Disagree

Doc and Sam have clear visions regarding this needless blood fest in Ukraine.

---

Yeah, the Clayton Williams vision

---

Hardly

Doubt either would have supported Clayton Williams.

Your contributions to this forum seem to be limited to random attacks.

Do you possess a college degee ?

---

No, where would one get a degee?

---

It shows.

Ask your cat.

over under on the number of days left for mr. prigozhin??

defenestration - incident #44.

- KKM

PA.

{ sipping coffee }

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

---

Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

---

Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

---

Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

---

I'm arguing that the rhetoric surrounding this is bs.

Peter Zeihan reported that Russia is going to shut down every military base it has around the world and that Russia's global footprint will 'disintegrate'. He also said Russia would pull out of Ukraine to defend Moscow from Wagener.

That kind of talk is absurd and was widespread

---

Peter freaking Zeihan . . . that's your beef? How many have heard of the guy? I had not before your post.

Some of these twitter keyboard warriors pick fights with drywall then claim victory. It's absurd.

What did Jack Poso or Sachs predict in the middle of it? I'll take a wild guess and say nothing except perhaps that it would somehow hurt Ukraine and the U.S. and help Putin.

Fri and Sat were big freaking deals. Putin and his top generals had to go on world tv. The insurgency killed Russian troops, turned others, and marched well into Russia.

I'm certainly not in a position to make predictions, but I can pretty much guarantee that Putin would rather this not have happened . . . .

---

Zeihan is a well-known (and well-paid) analyst with a credible background and track record. His skill is in laying out scenarios. The issue with scenarios is that one can never be sure which will come to pass and which will not, and really the laying out of the scenarios to determine "which one" is not necessarily the point. LIke all "war gaming" the real intent is to spot key factors, trends, strengths/weaknesses of yourself and your adversaries. The one he cited above is the appropriate one to focus on. When you have a coup, it causes everyone to question everything. Wagner has operated all over the world. His troops have served all over the Russian military, as with Wagner served along side the Russian military all over the world. It is the nature of such things.....use TDY contractors to get ad hoc missions done. I managed a standing team of 3 at my post (exact same program as the guys who saved the day in Benghazi). So how deep do the Wagner connections run? Are there other networks which could be players going forward?

This will freeze Russian decision making for days/weeks until the Kremlin sorts out who is loyal or not. And it will bring to a complete standstill any initiative from bases at home and abroad - nobody will stick their neck out to do anything for fear it will invite suspicions which are impossible to dispel. branch chiefs in stations will let opportunities pass. captains and colonels on bases will wait for explicit orders to act. The Russian system tends to be like that anyway, but now it will seize up like an oil-starved engine.

So in a specific sense, no, Russia is not going to pack up tartus and go home. But in a general sense, there's going to be big changes in context of less stuff getting done over the next month or three. A lot less. And what does happen will be protective of regime rather than projection of power. And there definitely will be a transfer of resources away from the periphery to shore up the core. That's the only way you can really be sure you're improving your situation = shore up your base. The Tudors could never be sure they'd rooted out the last Catholics from places that mattered, but they could richly reward their best allies and circle them closer to the keep.

The Prigozhin Coup ultimately highlights what the Ukraine war is all about = a clash of centuries. One cannot analyze Russia thru the lens of modernity. Russia is, literally, a feudal enterprise , a nearly polar opposite of European parliamentary democracy. We just watched a head-strong warlord engage in a titanic power struggle against a Russian Ministry of Defense full of corrupt competing interests. Prigozhin is a modern-day Henry Hotspur.

Russia is an inherently unstable state, and will remain so until it joins modernity. And referring to Hospur is appropriate - Putin has just been revealed to be a modern day Henry the IV. Facing questions about his health and succession, he will increasingly be distracted by struggles to hold onto power for the foreseeable future.

Prigo made a play for the throne. He realized he was not going to snatch it without a battle. Putin realized his own victory was not assured. So he made a cash offer. Prigo took the profit rather than the long odds of not just seizing power but RETAINING what he seized. Very old dynamics. Straight back to the days of Henry the IV - not strong enough to vanquish all threats, having then no option but to balance them against one another with carrots & sticks. Prigo can take the cash and retire in relative ease. Putin does not have that option. For him, the game of thrones goes on to the end.

Does supporting Ukraine as a way to pressure for Russian regime change make more sense to anyone now?

great graphic of what unfolded:

Wagner is turning its forces away from Moscow and returning to field camps, Prigozhin said in an audio file posted in his Telegram channel. It is unclear if this is a full withdrawal or a temporary move https://t.co/UYqj1x56ES pic.twitter.com/QF8nVkL7sy

— Bloomberg (@business) June 24, 2023

whiterock said:

---

The Prigozhin Coup ultimately highlights what the Ukraine war is all about = a clash of centuries. One cannot analyze Russia thru the lens of modernity. Russia is, literally, a feudal enterprise , a nearly polar opposite of European parliamentary democracy. We just watched a head-strong warlord engage in a titanic power struggle against a Russian Ministry of Defense full of corrupt competing interests. Prigozhin is a modern-day Henry Hotspur.

Russia is an inherently unstable state, and will remain so until it joins modernity. And referring to Hospur is appropriate - Putin has just been revealed to be a modern day Henry the IV. Facing questions about his health and succession, he will increasingly be distracted by struggles to hold onto power for the foreseeable future.

Prigo made a play for the throne. He realized he was not going to snatch it without a battle. Putin realized his own victory was not assured. So he made a cash offer. Prigo took the profit rather than the long odds of not just seizing power but RETAINING what he seized. Very old dynamics. Straight back to the days of Henry the IV - not strong enough to vanquish all threats, having then no option but to balance them against one another with carrots & sticks. Prigo can take the cash and retire in relative ease. Putin does not have that option. For him, the game of thrones goes on to the end.

Does supporting Ukraine as a way to pressure for Russian regime change make more sense to anyone now?

---

Begs the question about the devil you know vs the devil you don't. I'm not excited about a nuclear power in chaos and disarray. It sounds like a Tom Clancy novel.

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Disagree

Doc and Sam have clear visions regarding this needless blood fest in Ukraine.

---

Yeah, the Clayton Williams vision

---

Hardly

Doubt either would have supported Clayton Williams.

Your contributions to this forum seem to be limited to random attacks.

Do you possess a college degee ?

---

No, where would one get a degee?

---

It shows.

Ask your cat.

---

You aren't being fair. Before I started college I was a lot more articulate than you. What you are missing is called aptitude.

BearFan33 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The Prigozhin Coup ultimately highlights what the Ukraine war is all about = a clash of centuries. One cannot analyze Russia thru the lens of modernity. Russia is, literally, a feudal enterprise , a nearly polar opposite of European parliamentary democracy. We just watched a head-strong warlord engage in a titanic power struggle against a Russian Ministry of Defense full of corrupt competing interests. Prigozhin is a modern-day Henry Hotspur.

Russia is an inherently unstable state, and will remain so until it joins modernity. And referring to Hospur is appropriate - Putin has just been revealed to be a modern day Henry the IV. Facing questions about his health and succession, he will increasingly be distracted by struggles to hold onto power for the foreseeable future.

Prigo made a play for the throne. He realized he was not going to snatch it without a battle. Putin realized his own victory was not assured. So he made a cash offer. Prigo took the profit rather than the long odds of not just seizing power but RETAINING what he seized. Very old dynamics. Straight back to the days of Henry the IV - not strong enough to vanquish all threats, having then no option but to balance them against one another with carrots & sticks. Prigo can take the cash and retire in relative ease. Putin does not have that option. For him, the game of thrones goes on to the end.

Does supporting Ukraine as a way to pressure for Russian regime change make more sense to anyone now?

---

Begs the question about the devil you know vs the devil you don't. I'm not excited about a nuclear power in chaos and disarray. It sounds like a Tom Clancy novel.

---

Its terrifying how many people in the D.C. establishment and on this very forum are rooting on just such an outcome.

BearFan33 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The Prigozhin Coup ultimately highlights what the Ukraine war is all about = a clash of centuries. One cannot analyze Russia thru the lens of modernity. Russia is, literally, a feudal enterprise , a nearly polar opposite of European parliamentary democracy. We just watched a head-strong warlord engage in a titanic power struggle against a Russian Ministry of Defense full of corrupt competing interests. Prigozhin is a modern-day Henry Hotspur.

Russia is an inherently unstable state, and will remain so until it joins modernity. And referring to Hospur is appropriate - Putin has just been revealed to be a modern day Henry the IV. Facing questions about his health and succession, he will increasingly be distracted by struggles to hold onto power for the foreseeable future.

Prigo made a play for the throne. He realized he was not going to snatch it without a battle. Putin realized his own victory was not assured. So he made a cash offer. Prigo took the profit rather than the long odds of not just seizing power but RETAINING what he seized. Very old dynamics. Straight back to the days of Henry the IV - not strong enough to vanquish all threats, having then no option but to balance them against one another with carrots & sticks. Prigo can take the cash and retire in relative ease. Putin does not have that option. For him, the game of thrones goes on to the end.

Does supporting Ukraine as a way to pressure for Russian regime change make more sense to anyone now?

---

Begs the question about the devil you know vs the devil you don't. I'm not excited about a nuclear power in chaos and disarray. It sounds like a Tom Clancy novel.

---

It would actually limit our options. We've ignored Putin's saber rattling and acted relatively freely in Ukraine because, all pro-war propaganda aside, we know Putin is a rational actor. We won't have that luxury if someone like Prigozhin takes over. In the past we've at least been smart enough to try to replace the targeted regime with a puppet of our choosing.

whiterock said:

---

Russia is an inherently unstable state, and will remain so until it joins modernity.

---

You think Russia is not being effected by modernity? "Modernity: the quality or condition of being modern"

98% of Russians have a tv in their home...and half the population has smart phones.

Russia (and China) are most certainly both experiencing modernity...both its positive and negative effects.

Russia is not Afghanistan....I think what you mean is that Russia (and China) have not adopted Western style social-cultural-political liberalism.

There is no escaping modernity and no way to really reject it. (Unless you are a very small religious minority like the Amish or Hasidic jews...or you are willing to keep your country at a middle ages development level by force like the Taliban)

https://russiapost.info/society/death_of_liberal_russia_p3

whiterock said:

---

The Prigozhin Coup ultimately highlights what the Ukraine war is all about = a clash of centuries. One cannot analyze Russia thru the lens of modernity. Russia is, literally, a feudal enterprise , a nearly polar opposite of European parliamentary democracy. We just watched a head-strong warlord engage in a titanic power struggle against a Russian Ministry of Defense full of corrupt competing interests. Prigozhin is a modern-day Henry Hotspur.

Russia is an inherently unstable state, and will remain so until it joins modernity. And referring to Hospur is appropriate - Putin has just been revealed to be a modern day Henry the IV. Facing questions about his health and succession, he will increasingly be distracted by struggles to hold onto power for the foreseeable future.

Prigo made a play for the throne. He realized he was not going to snatch it without a battle. Putin realized his own victory was not assured. So he made a cash offer. Prigo took the profit rather than the long odds of not just seizing power but RETAINING what he seized. Very old dynamics. Straight back to the days of Henry the IV - not strong enough to vanquish all threats, having then no option but to balance them against one another with carrots & sticks. Prigo can take the cash and retire in relative ease. Putin does not have that option. For him, the game of thrones goes on to the end.

Does supporting Ukraine as a way to pressure for Russian regime change make more sense to anyone now?

---

hmmm

ICYMI: Obama acknowledges the overwhelming pro-Russian stance of the population in Crimea before it rejoined Russia🇷🇺 in 2014

H/t: @Sprinter99880 pic.twitter.com/ipoIc69cid

— Going Underground (@GUnderground_TV) June 23, 2023

Doc Holliday said:

---

hmmm

ICYMI: Obama acknowledges the overwhelming pro-Russian stance of the population in Crimea before it rejoined Russia🇷🇺 in 2014

H/t: @Sprinter99880 pic.twitter.com/ipoIc69cid

— Going Underground (@GUnderground_TV) June 23, 2023

---

Never mind that. Our brave bureaucrats are on an epic crusade against...[checks notes]..."feudalism."

Doc Holliday said:

---

hmmm

ICYMI: Obama acknowledges the overwhelming pro-Russian stance of the population in Crimea before it rejoined Russia🇷🇺 in 2014

H/t: @Sprinter99880 pic.twitter.com/ipoIc69cid

— Going Underground (@GUnderground_TV) June 23, 2023

---

Doc pulls up happy wedding photos of couples to disprove spousal abuse 10 years into the marriage.

[It started as one would expect events to start in Russia, with one Yevgeny Prigozhinan ex-convict thief who became by turns Vladimir Putin's cook, the Russian army's meat supplier, a warlord and militia leader of one of the largest private armies, almost entirely now manned by former convicts and led by ex-Russian armed forcesmarching on Moscow after a bizarre and violent outburst that made him look like a soyjak meme.

Prigozhin looks like a character out of Death of Stalin anyway, and the entire episode of his day-long march and revolt seemed to be like a movie directed by Armando Iannucci.
We found our protagonist marching his troops (around 25,000 of them, by his count) and circling back to Rostov, home of the southern military district, the tenth largest city; he captured its military headquarters, had tea with the locals, shot down a few Russian air force helicopters and jets, and demanded the heads of Sergei Shoigu and Valery Gerasimov, the Russian minister of defense and chief of general staff respectively.
He then made an appeal to Vladimir Putin to declare martial law and fire Shoigu and Gerasimov. To his astonishment, he failed to see any defection in the Russian army and eventually turned back after a negotiated settlement and headed to Belarus.

To add more layers to this already absurd plot, Putin at first declared him traitor. Rosgvardiya, the heavily armed Russian National Guards, appeared in Moscow alongside roadblocks and AFVs. Anne Applebaum wrote an article in the Atlantic claiming that this is the start of a Russian civil war.

Then once this was all over, Putin pardoned Prigozhin in a backchannel deal, apparently negotiated by none other than Belarus's autocrat, Aleksandr Lukashenko. In 2023, we have Lukashenko as a peacemaker. Truth is indeed implausible. ]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/pugachevs-ghost/

Redbrickbear said:

---

[It started as one would expect events to start in Russia, with one Yevgeny Prigozhinan ex-convict thief who became by turns Vladimir Putin's cook, the Russian army's meat supplier, a warlord and militia leader of one of the largest private armies, almost entirely now manned by former convicts and led by ex-Russian armed forcesmarching on Moscow after a bizarre and violent outburst that made him look like a soyjak meme.

Prigozhin looks like a character out of Death of Stalin anyway, and the entire episode of his day-long march and revolt seemed to be like a movie directed by Armando Iannucci.
We found our protagonist marching his troops (around 25,000 of them, by his count) and circling back to Rostov, home of the southern military district, the tenth largest city; he captured its military headquarters, had tea with the locals, shot down a few Russian air force helicopters and jets, and demanded the heads of Sergei Shoigu and Valery Gerasimov, the Russian minister of defense and chief of general staff respectively.
He then made an appeal to Vladimir Putin to declare martial law and fire Shoigu and Gerasimov. To his astonishment, he failed to see any defection in the Russian army and eventually turned back after a negotiated settlement and headed to Belarus.

To add more layers to this already absurd plot, Putin at first declared him traitor. Rosgvardiya, the heavily armed Russian National Guards, appeared in Moscow alongside roadblocks and AFVs. Anne Applebaum wrote an article in the Atlantic claiming that this is the start of a Russian civil war.

Then once this was all over, Putin pardoned Prigozhin in a backchannel deal, apparently negotiated by none other than Belarus's autocrat, Aleksandr Lukashenko. In 2023, we have Lukashenko as a peacemaker. Truth is indeed implausible. ]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/pugachevs-ghost/

---

You almost feel sorry for the wannabe emperors in Washington. Ten years and tens of billions of dollars spent enabling waste, corruption, and bloodshed to achieve this moment...and they barely had time to finish masturbating before it was over.

The media (NYT's, WaPa, Bloomberg,WSJ) all appeared to be overjoyed that Putin's grip was shaky. I believe that was wishful thinking.

The dude in Belarus Luckashinko pulled a fast one getting Prigozhin to lead the advance on the Ukraine north front with Belarus.

What a mess.

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

---

Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

---

Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

---

Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

---

I'm arguing that the rhetoric surrounding this is bs.

Peter Zeihan reported that Russia is going to shut down every military base it has around the world and that Russia's global footprint will 'disintegrate'. He also said Russia would pull out of Ukraine to defend Moscow from Wagener.

That kind of talk is absurd and was widespread

---

Peter freaking Zeihan . . . that's your beef? How many have heard of the guy? I had not before your post.

Some of these twitter keyboard warriors pick fights with drywall then claim victory. It's absurd.

What did Jack Poso or Sachs predict in the middle of it? I'll take a wild guess and say nothing except perhaps that it would somehow hurt Ukraine and the U.S. and help Putin.

Fri and Sat were big freaking deals. Putin and his top generals had to go on world tv. The insurgency killed Russian troops, turned others, and marched well into Russia.

I'm certainly not in a position to make predictions, but I can pretty much guarantee that Putin would rather this not have happened . . . .

---

Zeihan is a well-known (and well-paid) analyst with a credible background and track record.

---

Probably a good place to remind us that for average Russians the 1990s were Hell....deaths of despair reached epidemic levels...drinking deaths spiked...birth rate totally collapsed.

It soured an entire generation on the idea of Western liberalism (rightly or wrongly)

This is an extremely tough pill for Americans to swallow. 40 years of USSR rule was much less damaging to the church or community than was ten years of American merchant administered “shock therapy.”

— Deep South SR 🌲 (@AJiazhang) June 26, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

---

Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

---

Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

---

Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

---

Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

---

I'm arguing that the rhetoric surrounding this is bs.

Peter Zeihan reported that Russia is going to shut down every military base it has around the world and that Russia's global footprint will 'disintegrate'. He also said Russia would pull out of Ukraine to defend Moscow from Wagener.

That kind of talk is absurd and was widespread

---

Peter freaking Zeihan . . . that's your beef? How many have heard of the guy? I had not before your post.

Some of these twitter keyboard warriors pick fights with drywall then claim victory. It's absurd.

What did Jack Poso or Sachs predict in the middle of it? I'll take a wild guess and say nothing except perhaps that it would somehow hurt Ukraine and the U.S. and help Putin.

Fri and Sat were big freaking deals. Putin and his top generals had to go on world tv. The insurgency killed Russian troops, turned others, and marched well into Russia.

I'm certainly not in a position to make predictions, but I can pretty much guarantee that Putin would rather this not have happened . . . .

---

Zeihan is a well-known (and well-paid) analyst with a credible background and track record.

---

Probably a good place to remind us that for average Russians the 1990s were Hell....deaths of despair reached epidemic levels...drinking deaths spiked...birth rate totally collapsed.

It soured an entire generation on the idea of Western liberalism (rightly or wrongly)

This is an extremely tough pill for Americans to swallow. 40 years of USSR rule was much less damaging to the church or community than was ten years of American merchant administered “shock therapy.”

— Deep South SR 🌲 (@AJiazhang) June 26, 2023

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never go full commie

ron.reagan said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Doc Holiday never met Russian propaganda he didn't believe.

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Ukrainian shills who hate Russia and got this whole "coup" wrong is Russian propaganda?

Adam Kizinger peddles Russian propaganda?

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Cherry picking from billions of tweets to enforce a narrative constructed by the Kremlin. Some of it is seeded by troll farms and other appears organically by morons that think everything is a conspiracy and the government is constantly trying to trick them.

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Dude almost the entirety of western media held those same opinions.

This is your way of coping.

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Just so we're clear, are you arguing it was all a ruse?

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I'm arguing that the rhetoric surrounding this is bs.

Peter Zeihan reported that Russia is going to shut down every military base it has around the world and that Russia's global footprint will 'disintegrate'. He also said Russia would pull out of Ukraine to defend Moscow from Wagener.

That kind of talk is absurd and was widespread

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Peter freaking Zeihan . . . that's your beef? How many have heard of the guy? I had not before your post.

Some of these twitter keyboard warriors pick fights with drywall then claim victory. It's absurd.

What did Jack Poso or Sachs predict in the middle of it? I'll take a wild guess and say nothing except perhaps that it would somehow hurt Ukraine and the U.S. and help Putin.

Fri and Sat were big freaking deals. Putin and his top generals had to go on world tv. The insurgency killed Russian troops, turned others, and marched well into Russia.

I'm certainly not in a position to make predictions, but I can pretty much guarantee that Putin would rather this not have happened . . . .

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Zeihan is a well-known (and well-paid) analyst with a credible background and track record.

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Probably a good place to remind us that for average Russians the 1990s were Hell....deaths of despair reached epidemic levels...drinking deaths spiked...birth rate totally collapsed.

It soured an entire generation on the idea of Western liberalism (rightly or wrongly)

This is an extremely tough pill for Americans to swallow. 40 years of USSR rule was much less damaging to the church or community than was ten years of American merchant administered “shock therapy.”

— Deep South SR 🌲 (@AJiazhang) June 26, 2023

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never go full commie

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It was the transition from communism to capitalism that created the modern views of Russians born before lets say the year 2000-2001

Not to mention living through 70 years of Communist political oppression (and before that centuries of Czarist autocracy)

Russia has no meaningful history of political democracy...and the transition from state socialism to capitalism was painful for most of the population.

Would have been nice if they could have pushed through with Democracy and free market Capitalism (both lead to better national and life outcomes)...but its very possible this was a pie in the sky dream and never practical given the facts on the ground and their history.

It just seems to me like a giant leap in logic to use the life expectancy rate reported by Russia as a reason to hate on western ideals.

Wangchung said:

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It just seems to me like a giant leap in logic to use the life expectancy rate reported by Russia as a reason to hate on western ideals.

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No doubt Western ideas continue to be superior...that is not of course the main point.

A Russia with real multi-party democracy and a non-kleptocratic free market economy would be much much stronger than it is and much more successful as a nation.

The main point is that average Russians don't see it that way....or at least the older generation does not....mainly because of their life experiences and the problems of the 1990s

The generation born after 2000-2001 that has no memory of life in the old USSR or 1990s Russia is only in its 20s right now. In the decades to come they will no doubt have a big effect on Russia political-cultural life...but they are a long way off from gaining power (economic or political)

Russia (just like the USA) is ruled by 1960s baby boomers....and its gonna be a while until they give up power. (Putin for instance is 70 years old)