BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
You are not to determine someone's heart when they pray, sure....but what if they're praying not to God, but to someone else? Can you not discern the idolatry in that?
At this point, I and others have stated many times that praying does NOT equal worshiping. To pray means to ask. Please substitute "pray" for "ask for intercession." After this many times of being told the same thing, this is disrespectful and rude. Quite frankly, there may be no need to continue the conversation if you are not willing to meet us on this point, I'm done with this discussion.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
When a Catholic prays the rosary, they are praying to Mary, not God. For every one praise of God in the rosary, there are TEN praises to Mary. Even the beads they use have pagan roots. They are used to keep track of the number of prayer repetitions. Jesus himself told us to not use vain repetitions when we pray, as the pagans do (Matthew 6:7). They are directly disobeying Jesus. They are also calling Mary "our life" and "our hope", and refer to her as "holy queen". There is a "Queen of Heaven" in the bible, and it's a pagan goddess. If someone does these things, how can their "heart" be anything else but idolatrous? If it's not at least your tenth thought, then there is truly something wrong with your discernment, if you are a believer.
Quite frankly, I expected better from you on this. You possess a great deal of knowledge and to resort to this sophomoric claims that I would expect from a small town Baptist preacher that doesn't know any better. These statements of "beads of pagan roots" and "repetition of prayers" are almost embarrassing for you.
I'll address Matthew 6:7 to help
others better understand. Jesus, in Matthew 26:44:
So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again. Whoa, Jesus is repeating prayers. He must not have read what he said in Matt 6:7
In Thessalonians 5:17 - St. Paul urges us to
"Pray without ceasing."Same thing, maybe Paul was still blind and couldn't read Matt 6:7.
In Rev 4:8,
Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,'The angels here have no excuses. They have eyes all around, they should have most certainly read Matthew 6;7.
Maybe there's a logical explanation. In Matthew 6:7, Jesus is addressing the pagans that believed that they could wear down there gods like in 1 Kings 18 when the worshipers of Baal tried to call down fire when their babbling of prayers.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
There is so much about praying the rosary that is at the very least unscriptural, if not outright pagan idolatry. You aren't "judging" them by discerning this. If you are a believer in Jesus, then you should tell these people the truth, not out of "judgement" but to warn them.
Do you even know what the rosary is? Seriously. Once again, I would have expected you to at least understand what the rosary is comprised of if you were going to comment about it so authoritatively.
The rosary stated around the 12th century. The monks and other religious would memorize and pray all 150 of the Psalms. Of course, most lay people could not read, some pious people would repeat the Our Father "Pater Nostra" 150 times like the monks prayed the Psalms.
Traditions states that sometime around the 14th century, our Blessed Mother appeared to St. Dominic and gave him the structure of the rosary. The beginning of each rosary starts with the Apostle's Creed, an Our Father, 3 Hail Mary's (for an increase for the virtues of Faith, Hope, and Love), and a Glory Be prayer. Next 5 decades of Hail Mary's are prayed.
Now each rosary covers a specific mystery. The three original mysteries are the Glorious, Joyful, and the Sorrowful mysteries. Today is Friday. Most Catholic pray the Sorrowful mysteries on Fridays. (It's my favorite mystery.)
The Sorrowful first decade is the Agony in the Garden. We say an Our Father followed by 10 Hail Mary's. While saying these prayers, we contemplate on Jesus' suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane.
The Sorrowful second decade is the Scourging at the pillar, preceded by the Our Father followed by another decade. We dwell upon his brutal scouring which according to the the Shroud of Turin, 120 lashes with a Roman flagellum.
Third Sorrowful mystery is the Crowning of Thorns: Our Father, decade, and the contemplation of the spitting, punching, mocking, and pressing or beating the CAP of thorns onto Christ's head.
4th Sorrowful mystery is the Carrying of the Cross on the Via De La Rosa. Another Our Father, decade with the imagining of what it was like to carry a nearly 100 lb beam of wood for nearly a mile up hill to Golgatha. He fell three times. It's possible the third fall dislocated his shoulder, nearly paralyzing necessitating Simon of Cyrene carrying his cross.
5th Sorrowful mystery - Our Father, final decade while praying about the excruciating pain of having a nail driven thru the median nerve of the wrist and feet. The cruciform position of the body making exhaling extremely painful to the point where the lungs fill up with fluid and the heart gives out.
Finally we finish the rosary with a Glory Be.
When the monks and others replaced the 150 Psalms with 153 Hail Mary's (50 from each mystery (Sorrowful, Joyful, and Glorious). This allowed them to contemplate on the life of Jesus rather than just the Psalms.
The rosary is "scripture (Jesus's life) on a rope".
Anyone can pray the rosary. Not just Catholics. It's a universal prayer dwelling on the life of Jesus.
Our Easter Rite Catholics implore the Jesus prayer. "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." They repeat this with their breathing. {inhale]"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God," {exhale} "have mercy on me, a sinner." I do this every day for a bit. It's very peaceful. I try to remember to do this when I approach the altar for the Eucharist every Sunday and Friday.
