muddybrazos said:

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historian said:

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That kind of false moral equivalency is stupid & evil. They are most definitely not the same. The Israelis go to great lengths to avoid killing civilians, even at risk to themselves. Hamas uses their civilians as human shields and prevents them from fleeing a battlefield. Hamas also steals supplies from them to make them more destitute & desperate.

Quite literally, Hamas wants them dead. All they care about is the propaganda value & many fascists in the west are more than willing to promote their lies.

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Youre doing the hasbara for them. If that were remotely true the buildings in Gaza would still be standing and not completely leveled.

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yeah, i guess you don't understand how wars work... or bombs.

ShooterTX said:

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muddybrazos said:

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historian said:

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That kind of false moral equivalency is stupid & evil. They are most definitely not the same. The Israelis go to great lengths to avoid killing civilians, even at risk to themselves. Hamas uses their civilians as human shields and prevents them from fleeing a battlefield. Hamas also steals supplies from them to make them more destitute & desperate.

Quite literally, Hamas wants them dead. All they care about is the propaganda value & many fascists in the west are more than willing to promote their lies.

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Youre doing the hasbara for them. If that were remotely true the buildings in Gaza would still be standing and not completely leveled.

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yeah, i guess you don't understand how wars work... or bombs.

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Look up Fallujah. It will give you a better understanding of what the IDC is dealing with in Gaza. I guarantee nobody is laughing.

I cannot imagine the frustration and levels of anger that Gaza or Iraq would cause. NOBODY should question the decisions made on the ground. Those guys are doing the best they can with imperfect information.

Fallujah, Gaza would be hell on earth. Corridor after corridor of no right choices.


Into the Hot Zone: The Battle for Fallujah | Military.com

That's right. It's real easy to question from your air conditioned couch. Urban warfare is brutal and awful. Most Americans are clueless when it comes to war, in general.

FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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muddybrazos said:

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historian said:

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That kind of false moral equivalency is stupid & evil. They are most definitely not the same. The Israelis go to great lengths to avoid killing civilians, even at risk to themselves. Hamas uses their civilians as human shields and prevents them from fleeing a battlefield. Hamas also steals supplies from them to make them more destitute & desperate.

Quite literally, Hamas wants them dead. All they care about is the propaganda value & many fascists in the west are more than willing to promote their lies.

---

Youre doing the hasbara for them. If that were remotely true the buildings in Gaza would still be standing and not completely leveled.

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yeah, i guess you don't understand how wars work... or bombs.

---

Look up Fallujah. It will give you a better understanding of what the IDC is dealing with in Gaza. I guarantee nobody is laughing.

I cannot imagine the frustration and levels of anger that Gaza or Iraq would cause. NOBODY should question the decisions made on the ground. Those guys are doing the best they can with imperfect information.

Fallujah, Gaza would be hell on earth. Corridor after corridor of no right choices.


Into the Hot Zone: The Battle for Fallujah | Military.com

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At least in Fallujah the non combatants could leave the city. Rafah is basically at the border and the people are stiuck.

muddybrazos said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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muddybrazos said:

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historian said:

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That kind of false moral equivalency is stupid & evil. They are most definitely not the same. The Israelis go to great lengths to avoid killing civilians, even at risk to themselves. Hamas uses their civilians as human shields and prevents them from fleeing a battlefield. Hamas also steals supplies from them to make them more destitute & desperate.

Quite literally, Hamas wants them dead. All they care about is the propaganda value & many fascists in the west are more than willing to promote their lies.

---

Youre doing the hasbara for them. If that were remotely true the buildings in Gaza would still be standing and not completely leveled.

---

yeah, i guess you don't understand how wars work... or bombs.

---

Look up Fallujah. It will give you a better understanding of what the IDC is dealing with in Gaza. I guarantee nobody is laughing.

I cannot imagine the frustration and levels of anger that Gaza or Iraq would cause. NOBODY should question the decisions made on the ground. Those guys are doing the best they can with imperfect information.

Fallujah, Gaza would be hell on earth. Corridor after corridor of no right choices.


Into the Hot Zone: The Battle for Fallujah | Military.com

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At least in Fallujah the non combatants could leave the city. Rafah is basically at the border and the people are stiuck.

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. Talk to hhannas

FLBear5630 said:

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muddybrazos said:

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nein51 said:

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You may be right but way back in Desert Storm we leveled a hospital. At least that what Iraq and Al Jazeera said. They neglected the part where it was also a SAM radar/missile site.

Sometimes things are done out of vengeance. Sometimes necessity. I would say most people commenting have no idea which is which (nor do I in this particular conflict). You can safely assume that both Hamas and the IDF are telling half truths at best because there is a PR war both desperately want to win.

I wouldn't believe either side with any real confidence.

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I totally agree with this. The pictures ive seen though just look like total devastation and many of the videos i've seen of what the IDF is doing doesnt say "most moral army" etc. At least in Iraq our army went in and tried not to kill every single person and raze the towns. The IDF seem to be going scorched earth and in some cases laughing about it.

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I think a lot of that has to do with the type of fighting and type of fortifications they are dealing with. Urban fighting is brutal, destructive and there is no way to sanitize it. They are dealing with elevation, tunnels, urban corridors and civilians. There are no easy or clean answers, combined forces street by street. Not sure anyone laughs about this...

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War is hell.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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muddybrazos said:

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nein51 said:

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You may be right but way back in Desert Storm we leveled a hospital. At least that what Iraq and Al Jazeera said. They neglected the part where it was also a SAM radar/missile site.

Sometimes things are done out of vengeance. Sometimes necessity. I would say most people commenting have no idea which is which (nor do I in this particular conflict). You can safely assume that both Hamas and the IDF are telling half truths at best because there is a PR war both desperately want to win.

I wouldn't believe either side with any real confidence.

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I totally agree with this. The pictures ive seen though just look like total devastation and many of the videos i've seen of what the IDF is doing doesnt say "most moral army" etc. At least in Iraq our army went in and tried not to kill every single person and raze the towns. The IDF seem to be going scorched earth and in some cases laughing about it.

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I think a lot of that has to do with the type of fighting and type of fortifications they are dealing with. Urban fighting is brutal, destructive and there is no way to sanitize it. They are dealing with elevation, tunnels, urban corridors and civilians. There are no easy or clean answers, combined forces street by street. Not sure anyone laughs about this...

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War is hell.

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Interesting quote from William T. Sherman

Hamas propagandists believing a joke is fact: a "Mossad agent" was behind the death of the Iranian president, foreign minister, etc. The assassin's name: Eli Copter!

https://notthebee.com/article/trolls-said-irans-president-was-killed-by-mossad-agent-eli-copter-and-iranian-state-tv-reported-it-

EatMoreSalmon said:

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[

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Miami after spring break?

muddybrazos said:

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nein51 said:

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You may be right but way back in Desert Storm we leveled a hospital. At least that what Iraq and Al Jazeera said. They neglected the part where it was also a SAM radar/missile site.

Sometimes things are done out of vengeance. Sometimes necessity. I would say most people commenting have no idea which is which (nor do I in this particular conflict). You can safely assume that both Hamas and the IDF are telling half truths at best because there is a PR war both desperately want to win.

I wouldn't believe either side with any real confidence.

---

I totally agree with this. The pictures ive seen though just look like total devastation and many of the videos i've seen of what the IDF is doing doesnt say "most moral army" etc. At least in Iraq our army went in and tried not to kill every single person and raze the towns. The IDF seem to be going scorched earth and in some cases laughing about it.

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very shoddy analysis work. you are looking at battle damage to buildings and imputing that Israel is killing everyone in them.

In fact, they are announcing their attacks well in advance for the express purpose of allowing the citizenry to escape, KNOWING that lots of Hamas members will exploit it for E&E.

And any mature adult should know to take claimed Palestinian casualties with a huge grain of salt. Like at least 50% on the first cut.
https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-killed-gaza

muddybrazos said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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muddybrazos said:

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historian said:

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That kind of false moral equivalency is stupid & evil. They are most definitely not the same. The Israelis go to great lengths to avoid killing civilians, even at risk to themselves. Hamas uses their civilians as human shields and prevents them from fleeing a battlefield. Hamas also steals supplies from them to make them more destitute & desperate.

Quite literally, Hamas wants them dead. All they care about is the propaganda value & many fascists in the west are more than willing to promote their lies.

---

Youre doing the hasbara for them. If that were remotely true the buildings in Gaza would still be standing and not completely leveled.

---

yeah, i guess you don't understand how wars work... or bombs.

---

Look up Fallujah. It will give you a better understanding of what the IDC is dealing with in Gaza. I guarantee nobody is laughing.

I cannot imagine the frustration and levels of anger that Gaza or Iraq would cause. NOBODY should question the decisions made on the ground. Those guys are doing the best they can with imperfect information.

Fallujah, Gaza would be hell on earth. Corridor after corridor of no right choices.


Into the Hot Zone: The Battle for Fallujah | Military.com

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At least in Fallujah the non combatants could leave the city. Rafah is basically at the border and the people are stiuck.

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LOL that is literally not true. IDF allowed all who wanted to leave to do so.

Realitybites said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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[

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Miami after spring break?

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UCLA after riots

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/food-aid-to-gaza-is-getting-stolen-as-fast-as-it-can-be-delivered/
Food Aid to Gaza Is Getting Stolen as Fast as It Can Be Delivered
… the food aid is getting stolen before it can reach the World Food Program warehouse . . . just eight miles away. Once the food aid leaves the pier, the United Nations, international partners, and the "humanitarian community" oversee getting the aid to those who need it most. And they're getting robbed, hijacked, and mugged.

whiterock said:

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muddybrazos said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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muddybrazos said:

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historian said:

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That kind of false moral equivalency is stupid & evil. They are most definitely not the same. The Israelis go to great lengths to avoid killing civilians, even at risk to themselves. Hamas uses their civilians as human shields and prevents them from fleeing a battlefield. Hamas also steals supplies from them to make them more destitute & desperate.

Quite literally, Hamas wants them dead. All they care about is the propaganda value & many fascists in the west are more than willing to promote their lies.

---

Youre doing the hasbara for them. If that were remotely true the buildings in Gaza would still be standing and not completely leveled.

---

yeah, i guess you don't understand how wars work... or bombs.

---

Look up Fallujah. It will give you a better understanding of what the IDC is dealing with in Gaza. I guarantee nobody is laughing.

I cannot imagine the frustration and levels of anger that Gaza or Iraq would cause. NOBODY should question the decisions made on the ground. Those guys are doing the best they can with imperfect information.

Fallujah, Gaza would be hell on earth. Corridor after corridor of no right choices.


Into the Hot Zone: The Battle for Fallujah | Military.com

---

At least in Fallujah the non combatants could leave the city. Rafah is basically at the border and the people are stiuck.

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LOL that is literally not true. IDF allowed all who wanted to leave to do so.

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Fact check true.
Hamas is doing everything they can to keep the civilians in the war zone, while Israel is dropping leaflets, broadcasting warnings, and even calling civilians on the phone to warn them.
Also, Egypt is not allowing Palestinians to leave Gaza because they know how worthless, violent and terroristic those people are.
The only people who are trying to protect Palestinians, are the Israelis.