I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal. As anti-MAGA as I am I have a hard time getting beyond the intention of the DA and the Judge in this particular case.

If anything was done the banks and Trump were benefiting from a Ponzi scheme but the banks were never declared a target.

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

Any business in the state of New York that can leave should. It appears businesses there can now be sued for making a profit. No victim necessary.

I guess I don't know much about this NY law, and how often this has happened. Basically he fudged his financial statements, and the judge tried to dissolve his companies at first, take his businesses away, but was blocked from doing so by appeals court. Then the judge fines him and his associates about $450m. Has the New York ever fined someone so much for fudging statements? Lying on tv about how wealthy they are?

It is such a staggering sum, I'd only be able to quasi evaluate the justice of it if I knew what precedent was.

>>
decadence

The word decadence, which at first meant simply "decline" in an abstract sense, is now most often used to refer to a perceived decay in standards, morals, dignity, religious faith, honour, discipline, or skill at governing among the members of the elite of a very large social structure, such as an empire or nation state. By extension, it may refer to a decline in art, literature, science, technology, and work ethics, or (very loosely) to self-indulgent behavior.
<<

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Any business in the state of New York that can leave should. It appears businesses there can now be sued for making a profit. No victim necessary.

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honky.

Bank fraud is bank fraud, don't care what state. His level of fraud is just a piece of his make up. Ya, just can't inflate and defeat assets like has always done. It is criminal.

Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

...The damages would come to roughly $460 million once interest was included. That is more than the gross national product of some countries, including Micronesia. Yet the court admitted that not a single dollar was lost by the banks from these dealings.

— Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) February 17, 2024

#FreeSweetDonny

Frank Galvin said:

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Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

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Nope. I have a friend (using that term cautiously) that is Club Fed for the exact same thing and it wasn't nearly to that level of fraud by Trumps. Feds don't eff around with this stuff. I've been in the banking business for a while. I know the rules.

Turley: At some point, New Yorkers have to wonder is this what we want from a legal system pic.twitter.com/S0VLUWUKKa

— Acyn (@Acyn) February 16, 2024

BREAKING: Legal scholar Professor Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) EXPLODES After Judge Engoron Hits Trump with $364 Million Fine and 3-Year Ban in New York Civil Fraud Case, Says, "None of us could find a case like this!" Well, no one else has gone through this!!!!! WATCH pic.twitter.com/3Lk5Ef3tRl

— Simon Ateba (@simonateba) February 16, 2024

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Not only did they say they were not victims and did not complain about the alleged fraud, they said they wanted to do MORE business with Trump. They described him as a whale client. And so this is all being done in their name as victims even though no one lost any money.

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This is all a ploy to take down our former President because he’s beating our CURRENT president in the polls pic.twitter.com/iNh4erCXDJ

— Jeanine Pirro (@JudgeJeanine) February 16, 2024

J.R. said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

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Nope. I have a friend (using that term cautiously) that is Club Fed for the exact same thing and it wasn't nearly to that level of fraud by Trumps. Feds don't eff around with this stuff. I've been in the banking business for a while. I know the rules.

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Would you lend money to Trump? Apparently Deutsche Bank and others performed their due diligence and found that Trump's accounting numbers were a fair reflection of value. The loans were made, the loans were paid off on time and made millions for the lenders.

Where's the fraud?

ABC BEAR said:

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J.R. said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

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Nope. I have a friend (using that term cautiously) that is Club Fed for the exact same thing and it wasn't nearly to that level of fraud by Trumps. Feds don't eff around with this stuff. I've been in the banking business for a while. I know the rules.

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Would you lend money to Trump? Apparently Deutsche Bank and others performed their due diligence and found that Trump's accounting numbers were a fair reflection of value. The loans were made, the loans were paid off on time and made millions for the lenders.

Where's the fraud?

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Mean tweets.

Cobretti said:

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This is all a ploy to take down our former President because he’s beating our CURRENT president in the polls pic.twitter.com/iNh4erCXDJ

— Jeanine Pirro (@JudgeJeanine) February 16, 2024

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dude, really? you are posting something from Judge Twat. ***? keep on grinding on Fox News.

HuMcK said:

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"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

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What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

ABC BEAR said:

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J.R. said:

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Frank Galvin said:

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Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

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Nope. I have a friend (using that term cautiously) that is Club Fed for the exact same thing and it wasn't nearly to that level of fraud by Trumps. Feds don't eff around with this stuff. I've been in the banking business for a while. I know the rules.

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Would you lend money to Trump? Apparently Deutsche Bank and others performed their due diligence and found that Trump's accounting numbers were a fair reflection of value. The loans were made, the loans were paid off on time and made millions for the lenders.

Where's the fraud?

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bull***** DB has severed all ties with that fraud due to Fraud.

J.R. said:

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Bank fraud is bank fraud, don't care what state. His level of fraud is just a piece of his make up. Ya, just can't inflate and defeat assets like has always done. It is criminal.

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TDS has decayed your brain. A little surprising to me you see no problem with this. They may come for you next.

KaiBear said:

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HuMcK said:

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"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

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bro. fraud is effing fraud. He said his apt was 20K feet. no, about 9K and he valued it as such. this is criminal and that is just the start. I hope that effing con man rots in jail. He has earned.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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J.R. said:

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Bank fraud is bank fraud, don't care what state. His level of fraud is just a piece of his make up. Ya, just can't inflate and defeat assets like has always done. It is criminal.

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TDS has decayed your brain. A little surprising to me you see no problem with this. They may come for you next.fir

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firstly TDS is just the most dumb term ever. Secondly, as I mentioned, I used to own a fairly large bank. I know the rules, mister. Thirdly, I play by the rules. I do not and would never overvalue or undervalue assets. He is a ****ing criminal and deserves what he gets. He thinks he makes up the rules. Well, not so you ****ing Queens conman.

They literally lied about basic stuff like square footage, and did it knowingly. The Trump Org CFO committed perjury on the stand. They repeatedly picked every fight they could with the judge just to antagonize him.

Who tf cares if the banks got paid back (so did Madoff's investors...until they didn't), it's still blatant fraud that benefited Trump financially. If it was anyone else you'd be cheering that a rich person finally got held accountable for obvious fraud.

J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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HuMcK said:

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"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

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bro. fraud is effing fraud. He said his apt was 20K feet. no, about 9K and he valued it as such. this is criminal and that is just the start. I hope that effing con man rots in jail. He has earned.

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Zero damages yet millions in fines is obviously vindictive in nature.

AG ran for office on a platform to 'get Trump'.

That alone should wake anyone up to this sham.

J.R. said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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J.R. said:

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Bank fraud is bank fraud, don't care what state. His level of fraud is just a piece of his make up. Ya, just can't inflate and defeat assets like has always done. It is criminal.

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TDS has decayed your brain. A little surprising to me you see no problem with this. They may come for you next.fir

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firstly TDS is just the most dumb term ever. Secondly, as I mentioned, I used to own a fairly large bank. I know the rules, mister. Thirdly, I play by the rules. I do not and would never overvalue or undervalue assets. He is a ****ing criminal and deserves what he gets. He thinks he makes up the rules. Well, not so you ****ing Queens conman.

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I swear I could hear the theme from Dallas playing in the background as you typed this.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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J.R. said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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J.R. said:

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Bank fraud is bank fraud, don't care what state. His level of fraud is just a piece of his make up. Ya, just can't inflate and defeat assets like has always done. It is criminal.

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TDS has decayed your brain. A little surprising to me you see no problem with this. They may come for you next.fir

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firstly TDS is just the most dumb term ever. Secondly, as I mentioned, I used to own a fairly large bank. I know the rules, mister. Thirdly, I play by the rules. I do not and would never overvalue or undervalue assets. He is a ****ing criminal and deserves what he gets. He thinks he makes up the rules. Well, not so you ****ing Queens conman.

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I swear I could hear the theme from Dallas playing in the background as you typed this.

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lol. actually my real intitials are JR. (first and middle) aint made up.

J.R. said:

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Bank fraud is bank fraud, don't care what state. His level of fraud is just a piece of his make up. Ya, just can't inflate and defeat assets like has always done. It is criminal.

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it wasnt bank fraud..

HuMcK said:

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They literally lied about basic stuff like square footage, and did it knowingly. The Trump Org CFO committed perjury on the stand. They repeatedly picked every fight they could with the judge just to antagonize him.

Who tf cares if the banks got paid back (so did Madoff's investors...until they didn't), it's still blatant fraud that benefited Trump financially. If it was anyone else you'd be cheering that a rich person finally got held accountable for obvious fraud.

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The government's 18 million dollar "assessment"? is absolute nonsense and they're using that nonsense number to accuse Trump of wrong doing and then fining him $350 million.

The irony is that the wrongdoing is being perpetrated by the state of New York because the state is actually placing an obviously false value on Trump's property, for the purpose of causing real damage to Trump.

Whereas Trump caused zero damage to anyone when he took the loan.

The state of New York is deliberately guilty of what they are charging Trump with.

The effect of this ruling: Banks doing corporate loans collateralized with real estate are being financially damaged by the judges ruling. Future business is jeopardized. New York will pay dearly for this when banks see too much risk with an abusive state…so you got that going for you.

There's no reality where you destroy Trump and don't also destroy everyone else. The precedents being set will be used against democrats someday, if not, full hypocrisy will be on display and you'll be supporting tyranny.

Who is the injured party in this case?

J.R. said:

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Cobretti said:

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This is all a ploy to take down our former President because he’s beating our CURRENT president in the polls pic.twitter.com/iNh4erCXDJ

— Jeanine Pirro (@JudgeJeanine) February 16, 2024

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dude, really? you are posting something from Judge Twat. ***? keep on grinding on Fox News.

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Real estate guys are awfully quiet about this… so I’ll say it: The $350 million Trump verdict is disgusting. A viciously political attack over minor paperwork issues. They are trying to destroy the wealth and influence of a political enemy on the flimsiest of pretenses. No one…

— Pine Baron (@SpiritofPines) February 17, 2024

After this type of corporate public execution, it is hard to imagine many businesses rushing to the Big Apple. Drawing new businesses to the city is going to be about as easy as selling country estates during the French Revolution. https://t.co/W2sJ50xES0

— Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) February 17, 2024

"The precedents being set will be used against democrats someday"

Good, fraud and criminality should not be tolerated, they should be ripped out root-and-stem. See how easy that was?

You are experiencing cognitive dissonance because you buy into the false notion that all politicians and parties are equally corrupt (a common coping mechanism on the right these days for supporting an unprecedented monster), and when reality pushes back on your delusions it causes you distress.

Speaking of precedents and politcized cases, the Clintons and Hunter Biden say hello. If you don't like your guy being prosecuted, maybe don't throw your lot in with criminals and thieves next time.

Is it true that our former president lied about the value of his real estate and even gave false measurement of his property to be allowed to borrow more?

MSNBC host Katy Tur demands: ‘Is this fair’ after judge fines Trump, bans him from business in New York https://t.co/JuGMr6DBeN

— Fox News (@FoxNews) February 17, 2024

Quote:

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During a segment of "MSNBC Reports" on Friday, Tur mentioned that in the 70-year existence of the legal rule Judge Arthur Engoron used on Trump, it was never used against someone who has yet to be proven of doing harm to any individual or entity with their practices.

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Trump's penalty could cause NY biz exodus to FL, as New York State becomes 'legal banana republic': experts https://t.co/Kr1UUSNNhB

— Fox News (@FoxNews) February 17, 2024

Quote:

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"It's one of the greatest ironies of this case: In the name of protecting businesses in New York, you probably just led to hundreds of businesses looking at potential rentals in Florida because they look and they go, 'wow, if we fall on the wrong side of the politics in New York, they could sell us off for spare parts'."

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