drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

Ah yes, you're the guy who claims to own banks that don't bother with due diligence before lending, right? Another halfwit who thinks unarmed people walking around the capital for a few hours is an insurrection but armed BLM riots that saw multiple innocent people murdered and private and federal buildings destroyed for 8 months is just peaceful protesting. You do realize words means things, right, dip***** Claiming Jan 6th was an insurrection doesn't make it so. Claiming that mean tweets are worse than world war 3 and open borders doesn't make it so. Can't lie your way out of this one, junior.

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

No, it most certainly didn't.

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." (Direct quote).

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th (yes and no)

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.(yes)

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification(yes)

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police (no)

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .(no)

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs.(pipe bombs were planted as were the bricks and other items to use for destructive purposes) But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. (irrational fear) Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm? (Nonsense)

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

you have a lot of things to work out..

---

Not really, I know a "bad" action from a "good" action.

I watched that mess, including Trump's show. Anyone that can watch that and say that it was peaceful, nothing happened or it was any semblance of normal has needs to take a long look in the mirror.

Same as watching Putin roll his tanks across the border. Wrong is wrong.

---

so you dont agree that protesting is a constitutionally protected right? You equated it to invading a foriegn country..

You sure you dont need a counseling referral?

---

All for protesting. Breaking in through windows, rushing doors where Capital Police said not to go and forcing Congress to evacuate. Wearing military gear and communicating by radio to take the building? No, Jan 6th went way beyond protesting. Just like the riots in the Summer, no different. That is not protesting. If they stayed outside and didn't go in, chant to your hearts delight. Send emails by the thousands.

---

Civil disobedience, even acts that are illegal, do not constitute insurrection or overthrow.

---

Attacking the Capitol is civil disobedience?

---

This particular type of "attack" is.

---

Respectfully disagree

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

Ah yes, you're the guy who claims to own banks that don't bother with due diligence before lending, right? Another halfwit who thinks unarmed people walking around the capital for a few hours is an insurrection but armed BLM riots that saw multiple innocent people murdered and private and federal buildings destroyed for 8 months is just peaceful protesting. You do realize words means things, right, dip***** Claiming Jan 6th was an insurrection doesn't make it so. Claiming that mean tweets are worse than world war 3 and open borders doesn't make it so. Can't lie your way out of this one, junior.

---

Again, you are not smart. I never said we didn't underwrite loans. What I said was there are many times when banks will just re-up. I the bank doest get honest information from borrower, then there can be problems. You want to tell me that what Trump did wasn't bank fraud? Need an answer . So, just to clarify...you think Jan 6 was just a protest. need an answer. You have proven yourself to be the dumbest clown on this forum . Keep worshiping Trump. You and your refusal to call a spade a spade is disturbing. Answer my qestion, you inexperienced MAGA clown. You need to get out more. Maybe do a little international travel, cuz Trump lives in your head. Enjoy!

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

Ah yes, you're the guy who claims to own banks that don't bother with due diligence before lending, right? Another halfwit who thinks unarmed people walking around the capital for a few hours is an insurrection but armed BLM riots that saw multiple innocent people murdered and private and federal buildings destroyed for 8 months is just peaceful protesting. You do realize words means things, right, dip***** Claiming Jan 6th was an insurrection doesn't make it so. Claiming that mean tweets are worse than world war 3 and open borders doesn't make it so. Can't lie your way out of this one, junior.

---

Again, you are not smart. I never said we didn't underwrite loans. What I said was there are many times when banks will just re-up. I the bank doest get honest information from borrower, then there can be problems. You want to tell me that what Trump did wasn't bank fraud? Need an answer . So, just to clarify...you think Jan 6 was just a protest. need an answer. You have proven yourself to be the dumbest clown on this forum . Keep worshiping Trump. You and your refusal to call a spade a spade is disturbing. Answer my qestion, you inexperienced MAGA clown. You need to get out more. Maybe do a little international travel, cuz Trump lives in your head. Enjoy!

---

So now you've moved the bar from "it was an insurrection!" to "it wasn't just a little protest!" Did you think that moving of the goalposts wouldn't be noticed? AS far as the bank fraud claims, an actual bank that does actual lending and exists in reality didn't think what Trump did was bank fraud, so your opinion means nothing.

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

Osodecentx said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th (yes and no)

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.(yes)

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification(yes)

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police (no)

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .(no)

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs.(pipe bombs were planted as were the bricks and other items to use for destructive purposes) But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. (irrational fear) Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm? (Nonsense)

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

you have a lot of things to work out..

---

Not really, I know a "bad" action from a "good" action.

I watched that mess, including Trump's show. Anyone that can watch that and say that it was peaceful, nothing happened or it was any semblance of normal has needs to take a long look in the mirror.

Same as watching Putin roll his tanks across the border. Wrong is wrong.

---

so you dont agree that protesting is a constitutionally protected right? You equated it to invading a foriegn country..

You sure you dont need a counseling referral?

---

All for protesting. Breaking in through windows, rushing doors where Capital Police said not to go and forcing Congress to evacuate. Wearing military gear and communicating by radio to take the building? No, Jan 6th went way beyond protesting. Just like the riots in the Summer, no different. That is not protesting. If they stayed outside and didn't go in, chant to your hearts delight. Send emails by the thousands.

---

Civil disobedience, even acts that are illegal, do not constitute insurrection or overthrow.

---

Attacking the Capitol is civil disobedience?

---

This particular type of "attack" is.

---

Respectfully disagree

---

Understand. The world is allowed to have multiple opinions to debate. Although some of the zealots on both sides don't seem to agree with that.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th (yes and no)

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.(yes)

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification(yes)

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police (no)

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .(no)

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs.(pipe bombs were planted as were the bricks and other items to use for destructive purposes) But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. (irrational fear) Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm? (Nonsense)

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

you have a lot of things to work out..

---

Not really, I know a "bad" action from a "good" action.

I watched that mess, including Trump's show. Anyone that can watch that and say that it was peaceful, nothing happened or it was any semblance of normal has needs to take a long look in the mirror.

Same as watching Putin roll his tanks across the border. Wrong is wrong.

---

so you dont agree that protesting is a constitutionally protected right? You equated it to invading a foriegn country..

You sure you dont need a counseling referral?

---

All for protesting. Breaking in through windows, rushing doors where Capital Police said not to go and forcing Congress to evacuate. Wearing military gear and communicating by radio to take the building? No, Jan 6th went way beyond protesting. Just like the riots in the Summer, no different. That is not protesting. If they stayed outside and didn't go in, chant to your hearts delight. Send emails by the thousands.

---

Civil disobedience, even acts that are illegal, do not constitute insurrection or overthrow.

---

Attacking the Capitol is civil disobedience?

---

This particular type of "attack" is.

---

Respectfully disagree

---

Understand. The world is allowed to have multiple opinions to debate. Although some of the zealots on both sides don't seem to agree with that.

---

Blasphemy!

Guy Noir said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

---

No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

---

No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

---

I was under the impression that the plan was to not certify the state results and get alternate results submitted with different electors?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

---

Real terrorists place bombs that go off. False flag agents plant inoperable bombs meant to be discovered and used as propaganda against their political foes.

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

---

Real terrorists place bombs that go off. False flag agents plant inoperable bombs meant to be discovered and used as propaganda against their political foes.

---

So viable pipe bombs were there? Not a lie?

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

What? Maybe you mistyped. The people that broke in to stop the peaceful transfer of power stated that was what they were doing. The only difference it would make had Trump also said it, would be that he would also be complicit in the insurrection.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

---

Real terrorists place bombs that go off. False flag agents plant inoperable bombs meant to be discovered and used as propaganda against their political foes.

---

So viable pipe bombs were there? Not a lie?

---

Not what I said at all. Read it again and give replying another go.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

---

No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

---

Its only insurrection if there is a clear path to success? Can you find that for me in the dictionary?

Quote:

---

Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?

---

The same folks that tried to push Russian collusion hoax complete with a fabricated dossier created out of thin air?

No, they'd never do that.

Porteroso said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

What? Maybe you mistyped. The people that broke in to stop the peaceful transfer of power stated that was what they were doing. The only difference it would make had Trump also said it, would be that he would also be complicit in the insurrection.

---

An insurrection is a plan to attack and run a coup. Not a spontaneous thing.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

What? Maybe you mistyped. The people that broke in to stop the peaceful transfer of power stated that was what they were doing. The only difference it would make had Trump also said it, would be that he would also be complicit in the insurrection.

---

An insurrection is a plan to attack and run a coup. Not a spontaneous thing.

---

There is nothing in the definition of insurrection stating it cannot be spontaneous, however there was evidence presented, that there were plans in place, to do the protests, and get Pence to throw out the results.

Porteroso said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

What? Maybe you mistyped. The people that broke in to stop the peaceful transfer of power stated that was what they were doing. The only difference it would make had Trump also said it, would be that he would also be complicit in the insurrection.

---

The transfer of power was happening regardless. What did you think was going to be the outcome?

Guy Noir said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

What? Maybe you mistyped. The people that broke in to stop the peaceful transfer of power stated that was what they were doing. The only difference it would make had Trump also said it, would be that he would also be complicit in the insurrection.

---

An insurrection is a plan to attack and run a coup. Not a spontaneous thing.

---

There is nothing in the definition of insurrection stating it cannot be spontaneous, however there was evidence presented, that there were plans in place to do the protests and get Pence to throw out the results.

---

There's also nothing in the dictionary about interrupting procedures, or procedural moves to change outcomes. The reality people forget is that President isn't a democratically elected position in the first place.

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

---

Real terrorists place bombs that go off. False flag agents plant inoperable bombs meant to be discovered and used as propaganda against their political foes.

---

So viable pipe bombs were there? Not a lie?

---

Not what I said at all. Read it again and give replying another go.

---

You - "Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh?"

Were there pipe bombs there? Yes or No?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

---

Real terrorists place bombs that go off. False flag agents plant inoperable bombs meant to be discovered and used as propaganda against their political foes.

---

So viable pipe bombs were there? Not a lie?

---

Not what I said at all. Read it again and give replying another go.

---

You - "Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh?"

Were there pipe bombs there? Yes or No?

---

Real pipe bombs? No.

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

---

No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

---

Its only insurrection if there is a clear path to success? Can you find that for me in the dictionary?

---

Sure, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

Not a single person was charged with insurrection. Can there be an insurrection when nobody was alleged to have committed one?

GrowlTowel said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

---

No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

---

Its only insurrection if there is a clear path to success? Can you find that for me in the dictionary?

---

Sure, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

Not a single person was charged with insurrection. Can there be an insurrection when nobody was alleged to have committed one?

---

Of course there was no insurrection.

To apply that label on what actually occurred Jan 6th is ludicrous.

Wangchung said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

---

Real terrorists place bombs that go off. False flag agents plant inoperable bombs meant to be discovered and used as propaganda against their political foes.

---

So viable pipe bombs were there? Not a lie?

---

Not what I said at all. Read it again and give replying another go.

---

You - "Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh?"

Were there pipe bombs there? Yes or No?

---

Real pipe bombs? No.

---

From GOP Congressional Inquiry:

"Mr. D'Antuono referenced a report from the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia, that the pipe bombs were viable, and 'they could explode, and they could cause harm or death,' Mr. D'Antuono also acknowledged that the timer used on the pipe bomb could not have detonated the pipe bomb given the time already elapsed between placement and discovery."

They ****ed up the timer, so everything is fine. Would you say the same if the pipebombs were in Portland or Minneapolis in 2020? That they don't count?

Do you really believe the stuff you say?

ATL Bear said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th (yes and no)

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.(yes)

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification(yes)

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police (no)

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .(no)

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs.(pipe bombs were planted as were the bricks and other items to use for destructive purposes) But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. (irrational fear) Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm? (Nonsense)

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

you have a lot of things to work out..

---

Not really, I know a "bad" action from a "good" action.

I watched that mess, including Trump's show. Anyone that can watch that and say that it was peaceful, nothing happened or it was any semblance of normal has needs to take a long look in the mirror.

Same as watching Putin roll his tanks across the border. Wrong is wrong.

---

so you dont agree that protesting is a constitutionally protected right? You equated it to invading a foriegn country..

You sure you dont need a counseling referral?

---

All for protesting. Breaking in through windows, rushing doors where Capital Police said not to go and forcing Congress to evacuate. Wearing military gear and communicating by radio to take the building? No, Jan 6th went way beyond protesting. Just like the riots in the Summer, no different. That is not protesting. If they stayed outside and didn't go in, chant to your hearts delight. Send emails by the thousands.

---

Civil disobedience, even acts that are illegal, do not constitute insurrection or overthrow.

---

Attacking the Capitol is civil disobedience?

---

This particular type of "attack" is.

---

Respectfully disagree

---

Understand. The world is allowed to have multiple opinions to debate. Although some of the zealots on both sides don't seem to agree with that.

---

Yep

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

sombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Last week I spent some time on a long flight reviewing the decision and related documents in this case.

Qualifier: Of all the areas of business, finance, etc., I know less about CE than all others.

But I was struck by the discrepancies in Trump's valuations. For example, there were several instances where Trump sought and received legitimate 3rd-party appraisals, then shortly thereafter provided banks valuations that were double, triple, or more the appraisals - and failed to disclose the appraisals.

The case is not about Mar-a-Lago, which is a common talking point and is more complex that advertised given the building restrictions involved. It's about numerous examples of systematic eye-opening discrepancies.

Now, I have not talked to my colleagues or other CE/banking experts about their thoughts. But I'm guessing most folks on both sides have not actually reviewed the facts.

---

The biggest fact is a fine of over 260 million dollars involving a case of ZERO damages .

Clearly a violation of the 8th amendment.

These kinds of of pseudo legal persecutions need to be stopped.

Regardless how one feels about Donald Trump.

---

The amount of the fine will be reduced to a reasonable number. You are caught up on the fine, I am more interested in his guilt. Everyone keeps talking about everything around the fact that he did it and was found guilty. So far the only defenses have been:

1 - Everyone does it.
2 - Witch Hunt he shouldn't be charged, even if he did do it.
3 - Fine is too big. This has to stop

It will be the same with the classified documents. He has the documents. He didn't give them back. Watch we will hear:

1 - Witch Hunt, FBI was wrong
2 - Three years is not enough time
3 - Others haven't been prosecuted
4 - He was negotiating
5 - He mind-melded them all de-classified with a thought

Everything except the fact that he has them. Didn't turn them over when asked.

Guilt doesn't matter with Donald. Bannon has done his job well...

---

Then ask yourself this . . . had Donald Trump not run for (and won) president, would the State of New York have investigated him? Would the DA have run a campaign on getting Donlad Trump?

The honest answer to those questions is No and it should scare the hell out of any business and person in New York - step out of line, watch your back.

This is a banana republic and clearlly a two-tierd justice system.

---

Of course the answer is no. Would Clintons have been investigated for Whitewater? Hunter Biden for his business dealings? President Biden? All the Senators/House from both parties who have been investigated?

The answer to all of these is no. Politicians are targets and that has been happening since before Rome . . . .

---

The persecution of ex president Trump is unprecedented.

And should give pause to all Americans.

---

Agree, but he's done himself no favors, and some charges seem legitimate.

---

The conduct of ex President Trump is unprecedented and that gives pause to me

---

When looking at his behavior in a vacuum, sure. But when looking at his behavior through the lens of what the democrats did to him, the lies they spread and the spying and the investigations based on those lies coupled with the bull**** democrats pulled during the election under the auspices of Covid restrictions, well then his behavior seems almost rational.

---

Nope

---

Believe me, you didn't have to tell us that you refuse to look at Trump through any kind of actual context beyond "orange man bad". That's been apparent for years.

---

I voted for him twice.
That was before the insurrection...

---

Of old people walking unarmed through the capitol?

---

So you are good with went down Jan 6th

You think the sitting President is cool to go out and call into question an election he lost.

Direct a crowd to go to Congress and demonstrate during Certification

Break windows and enter. Attacking Capitol Police

Force their way into the Chambers forcing Congress to leave.
Taking over Congressional offices. .

This was all good. No guns, just 4 pipe bombs. But they didn't ignite them. So no harm, no foul. That is how Govt should work.

Trump is the cure right, maybe we should just go to martial law under Trump. Why do we need the Constitution, Donald and his gang will tell us what we should do. Just like Jan 6. How about it becomes the norm?

This is where you tell us how in summer of 2020 riots weren't dealt with like you want, so Jan 6 is ok... Right?

---

Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh? Might as well lie about the pipe bombs as long as you're ignoring the fact that a Trump explicitly stated that the crowd should demonstrate peacefully, and claiming that 8 months of deadly democrat funded and encouraged riots over a dead criminal was really just a "summer, right? In for a penny, in for a pound, apparently.

---

Ok, the one phrase in an hour of fight and take back our democracy.

I guess the House Judiciary Committee is trying to perpetrate a lie? There were 2 viable pipe bombs, confirmed by Quantico. Don't tell me, deep state trying to set up Donald? Right?


Republicans Release New Information On January 6 Pipe Bomb Investigation | House Judiciary Committee Republicans




Ok, its all good.

---

Real terrorists place bombs that go off. False flag agents plant inoperable bombs meant to be discovered and used as propaganda against their political foes.

---

So viable pipe bombs were there? Not a lie?

---

Not what I said at all. Read it again and give replying another go.

---

You - "Back to the pipe bomb lies, eh?"

Were there pipe bombs there? Yes or No?

---

Real pipe bombs? No.

---

From GOP Congressional Inquiry:

"Mr. D'Antuono referenced a report from the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia, that the pipe bombs were viable, and 'they could explode, and they could cause harm or death,' Mr. D'Antuono also acknowledged that the timer used on the pipe bomb could not have detonated the pipe bomb given the time already elapsed between placement and discovery."

They ****ed up the timer, so everything is fine. Would you say the same if the pipebombs were in Portland or Minneapolis in 2020? That they don't count?

Do you really believe the stuff you say?

---

Same FBI that had over 200 assets among the crowd during jan6th, right? Do you really believe the stuff they say?

GrowlTowel said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

---

No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

---

Its only insurrection if there is a clear path to success? Can you find that for me in the dictionary?

---

Sure, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

Not a single person was charged with insurrection. Can there be an insurrection when nobody was alleged to have committed one?

---

If one person was charged with insurrection can it be an insurrection?

Osodecentx said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

drahthaar said:

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Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

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Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

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damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

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The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

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I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

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Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

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No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

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Its only insurrection if there is a clear path to success? Can you find that for me in the dictionary?

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Sure, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

Not a single person was charged with insurrection. Can there be an insurrection when nobody was alleged to have committed one?

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If one person was charged with insurrection can it be an insurrection?

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So do you sniff hair too, or are you just in it for the ice cream?

Osodecentx said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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Porteroso said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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Guy Noir said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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J.R. said:

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Wangchung said:

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drahthaar said:

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Jan 6th, which he set off, was a National disgrace on the same level as Biden's border. I think Haley would be more effective and have a better chance of righting the shop than burn it to the ground Donald. Finally, Donald is a scumbag. Has been since the 70's.


Jan 6th was a disgrace, not because of protest but because of the total disregard/disrespect for the Capitol building itself, its access guidelines, the business being conducted there and the offices within it. Those who use that building may be unworthy of it--may be the same level of "scumbag" as Trump--but the building represents the highest of the nation's ideal and those who put them in place. The real National disgrace is not only the DOJ's selective prosecution activities over the past years and the Congress' failure to serve the Nation's best and highest interests, but also the two mainstream political parties proffering the sordid slate of candidates to represent us at every level of governance. We did this to ourselves.

---

Ah yes, a 3 hour demonstration is exactly like allowing over 7,000,000 illegal aliens into our country in a 3 year span. Jesus you leftists have zero perspective. "They disrespected a building!" Lol

---

damn, you are just dumb. It was a freaking insurrection, you idiot. Do you own a TV? You seen the videos? There is a reason many of these Trump loving morons (like you) are in prison . The border is a huge problem, but the border and Ukraine are mutually exclusive.

---

The only way it could be defined as an insurrection is Trump himself told people to break into the capitol and stop the election.

That didn't happen.

---

I agree that it was NOT an insurrection. I view it the same as complaining about election "fraud", there was no fraud outside normal levels. Now, did States illegally change their voting rules? That is the avenue that should have been explored, but the idiot was too caught up on using fraud because it was easier to understand on Twitter. Insurrection sounds good on TV and to MAGA it is a Red Herring to get people off the real subject that the sitting President incited a riot after losing an election.

Just like the 2020 riots, Jan 6th was a riot that disrupted a Government function. A riot that Trump incited. The 2020 rioters, the Jan 6th rioters AND Trump should all be prosecuted. No argument.

There was NO HOPE of taking over the US Government. An insurrection has to have some way to overthrow and seize power. That band of idiots never had any capacity to do that.

---

Not so. If Pence would have thrown out the election results then Trump would have remained in power for an undetermined length of time. The were several moving parts to this event. The protesters were just applying pressure on Congress and Mike Pence. Pence was the breakdown in the plan to invalidate the election. The rioters were just participants, but they were a part of the event.

If Trump is elected in 2024, what assurance do we have that he will not try the same thing in 2028?

---

No he would not have. If Pence failed to certify then the election falls to the House to decide. Trump's term still would have ended and even if the House failed to elect the next president the power would have transferred down the line.


This is exactly why there was no insurrection and never could have been one.

---

Its only insurrection if there is a clear path to success? Can you find that for me in the dictionary?

---

Sure, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

Not a single person was charged with insurrection. Can there be an insurrection when nobody was alleged to have committed one?

---

If one person was charged with insurrection can it be an insurrection?

---

Honest question …….

Has been ever been an insurrection that involved only one person ?