Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

If God has no power over the physical world then there is no God. One cannot be a secular Christian. If you are then God is mythos.

The basic tenets of faith require believing in that which you cannot see, feel, touch, hear…that's why it's called faith.

I don't have to have faith a rock hurts when you get hit with it.

I'm no hardcore Christian. In this crowd I'm probably closer to an atheist or agnostic. But I'm quite comfortable that anyone preaching secular Christianity is a heretic.

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

Secular: denoting attitudes, activities or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. Whatever more might be required to be classified as a "Christian," attitudes and activities with a religious or spiritual basis are required. One cannot be a "secular Christian" any more than one can keep Kosher dietary laws while dining on a pulled pork sandwich.

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. The fact that he has "poured out his spirit on all flesh" does not negate that fact that God also "became flesh and dwelt among us." The fact that "God is love" does not negate that fact that "even the winds and waves obey him." There is no tension between these two.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

Secular: denoting attitudes, activities or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. Whatever more might be required to be classified as a "Christian," attitudes and activities with a religious or spiritual basis are required. One cannot be a "secular Christian" any more than one can keep Kosher dietary laws while dining on a pulled pork sandwich.

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. The fact that he has "poured out his spirit on all flesh" does not negate that fact that God also "became flesh and dwelt among us." The fact that "God is love" does not negate that fact that "even the winds and waves obey him." There is no tension between these two.

---

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. An assertion without proof

" An assertion without proof"

A phrase which, oddly enough, applies to pretty much every claim made by Waco1947.

Congratulations Waco, you have logically invalidated your opening post in this thread.

I believe the applicable phrase is "self-owned"?

It's pretty normal for Christians to over time have trouble believing that God either can or just in fact does exercise any dominion in the physical world (at least currently, then the question is maybe ever). E.g. "Where was God in the tsunami?" I think most thinking Christians wrestle with that. There are all kinds of interesting answers/approaches, but I don't think that struggling with that breaks you from relationship with God. So, while I don't endorse that approach (I think God can exercise dominion on earth and occasionally does), I don't think the discussion is out of bounds. I have to admit my reasons for believing so are faith-based, but the reasons for thinking the opposite are also just assumptions.

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

Secular: denoting attitudes, activities or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. Whatever more might be required to be classified as a "Christian," attitudes and activities with a religious or spiritual basis are required. One cannot be a "secular Christian" any more than one can keep Kosher dietary laws while dining on a pulled pork sandwich.

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. The fact that he has "poured out his spirit on all flesh" does not negate that fact that God also "became flesh and dwelt among us." The fact that "God is love" does not negate that fact that "even the winds and waves obey him." There is no tension between these two.

---

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. An assertion without proof

---

What is "proof?" It seems that something "without proof" is best defined as "something that you don't want to believe is true."

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

First , dialogue about my original post.Or Start with your assumptions and promises no questions, unless you have questions specific specifically do what I wrote.

Robert Wilson said:

---

It's pretty normal for Christians to over time have trouble believing that God either can or just in fact does exercise any dominion in the physical world (at least currently, then the question is maybe ever). E.g. "Where was God in the tsunami?" I think most thinking Christians wrestle with that. There are all kinds of interesting answers/approaches, but I don't think that struggling with that breaks you from relationship with God. So, while I don't endorse that approach (I think God can exercise dominion on earth and occasionally does), I don't think the discussion is out of bounds. I have to admit my reasons for believing so are faith-based, but the reasons for thinking the opposite are also just assumptions.

---

Thank you for a reasonable discussion . " Believing the opposite is just assumptions."
My premises are based in knowledge, fact, proof or reality.with regards to the World actually live in and how as I faithful Christian I move, act, believe, and have my being.
To say, God, occasionally intervenes is the rub for secular people, wishing to be and hoping to be Christians.

The guy who refuses to answer basic questions about the Gospel accounts, the existence of Heaven/Hell and the power of God claims he is only rejected by "secular" people.

Dude, you are not fooling anyone, just admit you are a Gnostic, maybe even a Druid, not a Christian.

Waco1947 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

It's pretty normal for Christians to over time have trouble believing that God either can or just in fact does exercise any dominion in the physical world (at least currently, then the question is maybe ever). E.g. "Where was God in the tsunami?" I think most thinking Christians wrestle with that. There are all kinds of interesting answers/approaches, but I don't think that struggling with that breaks you from relationship with God. So, while I don't endorse that approach (I think God can exercise dominion on earth and occasionally does), I don't think the discussion is out of bounds. I have to admit my reasons for believing so are faith-based, but the reasons for thinking the opposite are also just assumptions.

---

Thank you for a reasonable discussion . " Believing the opposite is just assumptions."
My premises are based in knowledge, fact, proof or reality.with regards to the World actually live in and how as I faithful Christian I move, act, believe, and have my being.
To say, God, occasionally intervenes is the rub for secular people, wishing to be and hoping to be Christians.

---

If you are a "secular person," you cannot, by definition, be a Christian because secular literally means "attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis" and being a Christian requires that reality have a spiritual basis. You cannot be a Kosher-practicing bacon eater.

Waco1947 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

First , dialogue about my original post.Or Start with your assumptions and promises no questions, unless you have questions specific specifically do what I wrote.

---

You certainly don't owe me anything. I just thought that you answering my questions might shed light on your thinking about God/Christ. As for secular cosmology, it makes no sense to me.

Your God is too small. You are clearly continually fighting a personal battle with respect to God - but you don't have to also continually impose that upon others.

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

Waco1947 said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

It's pretty normal for Christians to over time have trouble believing that God either can or just in fact does exercise any dominion in the physical world (at least currently, then the question is maybe ever). E.g. "Where was God in the tsunami?" I think most thinking Christians wrestle with that. There are all kinds of interesting answers/approaches, but I don't think that struggling with that breaks you from relationship with God. So, while I don't endorse that approach (I think God can exercise dominion on earth and occasionally does), I don't think the discussion is out of bounds. I have to admit my reasons for believing so are faith-based, but the reasons for thinking the opposite are also just assumptions.

---

Thank you for a reasonable discussion . " Believing the opposite is just assumptions."
My premises are based in knowledge, fact, proof or reality.with regards to the World actually live in and how as I faithful Christian I move, act, believe, and have my being.
To say, God, occasionally intervenes is the rub for secular people, wishing to be and hoping to be Christians.

---

But your explicit belief is that God "sent" Jesus, who you believe to be an actual, physical person. How could God have done this, if he doesn't have the power to "intervene" in the physical world we live in?

This is what you ran away from in the other thread. Now answer it here.

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

Secular: denoting attitudes, activities or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. Whatever more might be required to be classified as a "Christian," attitudes and activities with a religious or spiritual basis are required. One cannot be a "secular Christian" any more than one can keep Kosher dietary laws while dining on a pulled pork sandwich.

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. The fact that he has "poured out his spirit on all flesh" does not negate that fact that God also "became flesh and dwelt among us." The fact that "God is love" does not negate that fact that "even the winds and waves obey him." There is no tension between these two.

---

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. An assertion without proof

---

Did the Jesus of the Bible exist?

If so, then you have proof. If not, then what's the point?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

Simply stop: Stop telling me what you I think. Use my actual words not your made up conjectures about me. Now try again. Be dialogical.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

Secular: denoting attitudes, activities or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. Whatever more might be required to be classified as a "Christian," attitudes and activities with a religious or spiritual basis are required. One cannot be a "secular Christian" any more than one can keep Kosher dietary laws while dining on a pulled pork sandwich.

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. The fact that he has "poured out his spirit on all flesh" does not negate that fact that God also "became flesh and dwelt among us." The fact that "God is love" does not negate that fact that "even the winds and waves obey him." There is no tension between these two.

---

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. An assertion without proof

---

Did the Jesus of the Bible exist? Of course, he is historical. Although historical the writings about Jesus by Mt, Mk, Lk, and Jn are their interpretations of his life. Each of them stood at distance from Jesus and only heard stories or saw some writings but the key part is that the writers shaped their gospels around a theological perspective in the churches in which they were writing. They are marvelous narrative theologians

If so, then you have proof. If not, then what's the point? Not getting what your saving.

---

you are dragging the same tired arguments about the meaning of "sent'. It was asked and answered but disagree with that answer.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

I'll answer 1992

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

Simply stop: Stop telling me what you I think. Use my actual words not your made up conjectures about me. Now try again. Be dialogical.

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. These are what YOU YOURSELF told us in all your past comments. Am I wrong? Which of these are incorrect?

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

I'll answer 1992

---

But will you answer me? That's the real question. Still waiting for you.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

Simply stop: Stop telling me what you I think. Use my actual words not your made up conjectures about me. Now try again. Be dialogical.

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. These are what YOU YOURSELF told us in all your past comments. Am I wrong? Which of these are incorrect?

---

Are you wrong? I don't think you are. These are all points I recall being made at one time or another.

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

Secular: denoting attitudes, activities or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. Whatever more might be required to be classified as a "Christian," attitudes and activities with a religious or spiritual basis are required. One cannot be a "secular Christian" any more than one can keep Kosher dietary laws while dining on a pulled pork sandwich.

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. The fact that he has "poured out his spirit on all flesh" does not negate that fact that God also "became flesh and dwelt among us." The fact that "God is love" does not negate that fact that "even the winds and waves obey him." There is no tension between these two.

---

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. An assertion without proof

---

Did the Jesus of the Bible exist? Of course, he is historical. Although historical the writings about Jesus by Mt, Mk, Lk, and Jn are their interpretations of his life. Each of them stood at distance from Jesus and only heard stories or saw some writings but the key part is that the writers shaped their gospels around a theological perspective in the churches in which they were writing. They are marvelous narrative theologians

If so, then you have proof. If not, then what's the point? Not getting what your saving.

---

---

You said that God intervening in the physical world is "an assertion without proof." If God sent Jesus to earth, then God intervened in the physical world, and this fact is the proof you said you wanted.

If God didn't send Jesus to earth, then all of Christianity would be fundamentally wrong, so what would be the point in discussing it?

D. C. Bear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

Simply stop: Stop telling me what you I think. Use my actual words not your made up conjectures about me. Now try again. Be dialogical.

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. These are what YOU YOURSELF told us in all your past comments. Am I wrong? Which of these are incorrect?

---

Are you wrong? I don't think you are. These are all points I recall being made at one time or another.

---

They are all accurate statements of his beliefs, all on record in this forum. They're not made up "conjectures". If I have to, I can go back and find where he stated them. If Waco47 wants to deny any of these, then he can go ahead and answer those questions himself right here, and we'll see if I'm wrong.

Waco47?? You want to show me where I'm wrong?

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

This construct basically is one where he has an imaginary friend that he has named God. It is a recycling of the old Gnosticism with a twist.

To be God, God must have power in the physical world - not the least if which is the power to create it.

Waco1947 said:

---

you are dragging the same tired arguments about the meaning of "sent'. It was asked and answered but disagree with that answer.

---

Your so-called "answer" was a completely vague and confusing reference to a "connection" between God and Jesus. This completely fails to explain how a spirit (God) could achieve something physical like "sending" a physical person (Jesus) to the earth without supernatural power being involved.

Your "answer" was the typical Waco47 strategy of answering without answering. This happens when you have been trapped in a failed argument, and you know it.

You are making a physical claim about a spiritual God, but you eliminate the supernatural. Unless you can resolve this fatal dilemma in your theology, your theology has failed.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

Simply stop: Stop telling me what you I think. Use my actual words not your made up conjectures about me. Now try again. Be dialogical.

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. These are what YOU YOURSELF told us in all your past comments. Am I wrong? Which of these are incorrect?

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. No, you are telling me what you think I think.

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

This construct basically is one where he has an imaginary friend that he has named God. It is a recycling of the old Gnosticism with a twist.

To be God, God must have power in the physical world - not the least if which is the power to create it.

---

Again, what is your proof that "God must have power in the physical world."

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

Simply stop: Stop telling me what you I think. Use my actual words not your made up conjectures about me. Now try again. Be dialogical.

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. These are what YOU YOURSELF told us in all your past comments. Am I wrong? Which of these are incorrect?

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. No, you are telling me what you think I think.

---

He's telling you what you said you think.

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

He is on record in this forum for these:

1. No, he does not believe that God created the universe, earth, or man. He doesn't believe the very first verse of the bible, yet he calls himself a "Christian". That's got to be some kind of a world record - the earliest point in the bible where a self-professed Christian has trouble believing.

2. No, he does not believe the miracles in the bible were literal occurrences - he believes they're just "stories" about God's love. He expressly does NOT believe in the literal and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. No, he doesn't believe in Hell, he believes that everyone goes to Heaven - all non-believers, even Satanists.

4 (my addition) - he does not believe in the supernatural. Yet he believes that God is spirit. Which by definition is supernatural. I know what you're thinking.....


I am not lying about any of these. These beliefs are well established in this forum as being his.

---

Simply stop: Stop telling me what you I think. Use my actual words not your made up conjectures about me. Now try again. Be dialogical.

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. These are what YOU YOURSELF told us in all your past comments. Am I wrong? Which of these are incorrect?

---

I'm NOT telling you what you think. No, you are telling me what you think I think.

---

Then tell us - what did I get wrong?

Waco1947 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

This construct basically is one where he has an imaginary friend that he has named God. It is a recycling of the old Gnosticism with a twist.

To be God, God must have power in the physical world - not the least if which is the power to create it.

---

Again, what is your proof that "God must have power in the physical world."

---

What is YOUR proof? You made the claim that God did something physical by sending Jesus.

How could he do that....without the power to do it?

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Reflections on Richard Rohr's Sacred Cosmology:
Sacred Cosmology and Physical Cosmology

1. "I live in both cosmologies as you and all of us do. It's not a dualism where I switch back and forth. There is a basic unity. As I live in the physical cosmology my heart and soul and interior life, live in a Sacred Cosmology of love and grace and forgiveness and justice.

2. The problem for us secular (physical Cosmology) /sacred Christians is blending the two as if the sacred acts on the physical forces of our shared Cosmology.

3. But in reality God is powerless over the physical cosmology. So my faith is that God is active in love, grace, etc. in the Sacred Cosmology.

4. We have come to believe that physical forces - weather, wind, rain, earthquakes, etc. are beyond ours and God's control.

5. And if they are beyond our control then how do I "respond" as a Christian with a sacred Cosmology? It was a difficult task given my orthodox and fundamentalist background which taught God is all powerful in a physics way but I came to believe in an all powerful God of love as in I John "God is love." It's sounds foolish to the orthodox/fundamentalist/evangelical but to those of my faith it is the power of the cross. In the weakness of the cross is the power of God for love and new life in Christ. Surely I sound foolish to my more conservative brothers and sisters but God's saving power in the weakness of the cross is my my faith in an all powerful God of love (I Corinthians 1).

6. My God's love and presence go with me through this physical Cosmology. The cross reassures me. My task is to hold fast in faith to this God. That faith is wavering but God forgives and I launch myself again into this world. I believe my Sacred Cosmology wins the day for love, grace, etc. The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."

This statement is as if I wrote. It captures my beliefs and faith.
Don't tear down Rohr with silliness.
Respond to the statement as is.
Let's dialog.
The haters will appear soon and try to crash dialogue. Rise above their silliness and ad hominen attacks.

"The Sacred God of my faith is my final hope. Faith, hope, love abide in this physical Cosmology but the greatest of these is love."
In your responses live out that love in good faith dialogue and discussion.

---

Secular: denoting attitudes, activities or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. Whatever more might be required to be classified as a "Christian," attitudes and activities with a religious or spiritual basis are required. One cannot be a "secular Christian" any more than one can keep Kosher dietary laws while dining on a pulled pork sandwich.

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. The fact that he has "poured out his spirit on all flesh" does not negate that fact that God also "became flesh and dwelt among us." The fact that "God is love" does not negate that fact that "even the winds and waves obey him." There is no tension between these two.

---

In reality, God can, and does, intervene in the physical world. He is all powerful in all realms. An assertion without proof

---

Did the Jesus of the Bible exist? Of course, he is historical. Although historical the writings about Jesus by Mt, Mk, Lk, and Jn are their interpretations of his life. Each of them stood at distance from Jesus and only heard stories or saw some writings but the key part is that the writers shaped their gospels around a theological perspective in the churches in which they were writing. They are marvelous narrative theologians

If so, then you have proof. If not, then what's the point? Not getting what your saving.

---

---

47, I am going to try and reset our conversations, because I am generally interested in this perspective.

If you're willing to answer, I would love to know your perspective on this: If God doesn't intervene in the physical world, and indeed does not even have the capacity to intervene in the physical world, and if Christ is God, then how was Christ (God who became man) born into the physical world? Help me understand what appears to me to be two contradictory set of beliefs.

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Proud 1992 Alum said:

---

Waco1947,

I am curious.

1. Do you believe that God created the universe?
2. Do you believe the various miracles in the Bible? For example, parting the waters/exodus from Egypt; Jesus healing people; the physical resurrection of Jesus?
3. Do you believe in a Heaven and Hell?

---

First , dialogue about my original post.Or Start with your assumptions and promises no questions, unless you have questions specific specifically do what I wrote.

---

You certainly don't owe me anything. I just thought that you answering my questions might shed light on your thinking about God/Christ. As for secular cosmology, it makes no sense to me.

---

You said, "As for secular cosmology, it makes no sense to me." You live in a secular cosmology. You defy the laws of physics, or chemistry, or biology. You experience tornadoes, you count on medications to work, You know lifting weights changes your muscle mass. That is a secular cosmology.

Galileo and Copernicus laws about astronomy put a huge ***** in the armor of theology. The church declared them heretics. These were a part of the proof that theology cannot determine science.