Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Premise #1. I have never believed Jesus died FOR my sin...as a sacrifice that God required in order to forgive me.



Premise #2 Pure love always forgives, even when the person doing the harm doesn't/can't recognize how wrong their act is. And God is Pure Love. Or as I say the overwhelming witness of scripture is God is love.


Premise #3 I do, however, believe Jesus died because of sin. The same sin that exists today: lust for power and control, the inability to see people who are different than me as humans who have just as much right to think and love and believe as I do, the prioritization of some over others based on societal constructs that are completely arbitrary, the proliferation of hate and anger and fear...the list could go on and on.

So today, I will be reflecting upon my role in perpetuating the systems that continue to crucify my fellow human beings. Not as a way to wallow in guilt or shame, but to think about alternative ways of seeing and being that are more in line with the love Christ had and continues to have through us.

Conclusion: pure love never dies.

Which Premise is wrong.

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Premise 1 is wrong because it is directly refuted by Scripture. No, from the perspective of God's love and grace the reconciliation has already taken place. Has God not already forgiven us before we even ask?


the only way to God is through Jesus.. you discount the faith requirement, it is there as He planned it.



Premise 2 is misleading because it implies that God will forgive all sins of all people (universalism), while the Bible says that the sins of those who believe will be forgiven. Point out to me where Jesus said "I will forgive you but only if you are believer and before I heal you?

you must have the faith of a mustard seed and Jesus only healed those that believed



Premise 3 doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say that Jesus died for sin, but not my sin? Are we back to universalism? Maybe so. Again, from God's perspective we are already forgiven. Grace , a gift, has no requirements. You must address that theological and philosophical principle first.

again, it has basic requirements.. nobody comes to the father except through Jesus



The final statement (reflecting) is most likely wrong because Christ showed His love for people by seeking their repentance and turning back to God (their ultimate good), No Jesus never sought repentance as a condition for His love. Jesus simply loves us but the repentance of our sins means we have life more abundantly. Gratitude and turning around and works are our response to that love. In Latin a priori means "what comes first." Love comes first.

while I suspect the author of this piece believes that Christ's love means affirming people's sins (the road which seems right to a man, but the end of which is death, as set out in Proverbs 14:12). Proverbs is OT thought but Jesus teaches love is the first commandment. No one is affirming sin that's your straw man and it is wrong

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Heaven help any flock you sheparded.. Your sermans must rank up there with Joel Osteens..

4th and Inches said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Premise #1. I have never believed Jesus died FOR my sin...as a sacrifice that God required in order to forgive me.



Premise #2 Pure love always forgives, even when the person doing the harm doesn't/can't recognize how wrong their act is. And God is Pure Love. Or as I say the overwhelming witness of scripture is God is love.


Premise #3 I do, however, believe Jesus died because of sin. The same sin that exists today: lust for power and control, the inability to see people who are different than me as humans who have just as much right to think and love and believe as I do, the prioritization of some over others based on societal constructs that are completely arbitrary, the proliferation of hate and anger and fear...the list could go on and on.

So today, I will be reflecting upon my role in perpetuating the systems that continue to crucify my fellow human beings. Not as a way to wallow in guilt or shame, but to think about alternative ways of seeing and being that are more in line with the love Christ had and continues to have through us.

Conclusion: pure love never dies.

Which Premise is wrong.

---

Premise 1 is wrong because it is directly refuted by Scripture. No, from the perspective of God's love and grace the reconciliation has already taken place. Has God not already forgiven us before we even ask?


the only way to God is through Jesus.. you discount the faith requirement, it is there as He planned it.



Premise 2 is misleading because it implies that God will forgive all sins of all people (universalism), while the Bible says that the sins of those who believe will be forgiven. Point out to me where Jesus said "I will forgive you but only if you are believer and before I heal you?

you must have the faith of a mustard seed and Jesus only healed those that believed



Premise 3 doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say that Jesus died for sin, but not my sin? Are we back to universalism? Maybe so. Again, from God's perspective we are already forgiven. Grace , a gift, has no requirements. You must address that theological and philosophical principle first.

again, it has basic requirements.. nobody comes to the father except through Jesus



The final statement (reflecting) is most likely wrong because Christ showed His love for people by seeking their repentance and turning back to God (their ultimate good), No Jesus never sought repentance as a condition for His love. Jesus simply loves us but the repentance of our sins means we have life more abundantly. Gratitude and turning around and works are our response to that love. In Latin a priori means "what comes first." Love comes first.

while I suspect the author of this piece believes that Christ's love means affirming people's sins (the road which seems right to a man, but the end of which is death, as set out in Proverbs 14:12). Proverbs is OT thought but Jesus teaches love is the first commandment. No one is affirming sin that's your straw man and it is wrong

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Heaven help any flock you shepherded Your sermons must rank up there with Joel Osteens..

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An accusation without proof.

Waco1947 said:

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Proud 1992 Alum said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Proud 1992 Alum said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Jesus never sought repentance as a condition for His love.

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Wrong.

Matthew 4:17 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near"

Matthew 11:20 "Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent."

Matthew 12:41 "The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here."

Matthew 21:32 "For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."

Mark 1:14-15 "After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!""

Luke 3:8 "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."

Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Luke 13:3 "But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Waco1947 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Premise #1. I have never believed Jesus died FOR my sin...as a sacrifice that God required in order to forgive me.



Premise #2 Pure love always forgives, even when the person doing the harm doesn't/can't recognize how wrong their act is. And God is Pure Love. Or as I say the overwhelming witness of scripture is God is love.


Premise #3 I do, however, believe Jesus died because of sin. The same sin that exists today: lust for power and control, the inability to see people who are different than me as humans who have just as much right to think and love and believe as I do, the prioritization of some over others based on societal constructs that are completely arbitrary, the proliferation of hate and anger and fear...the list could go on and on.

So today, I will be reflecting upon my role in perpetuating the systems that continue to crucify my fellow human beings. Not as a way to wallow in guilt or shame, but to think about alternative ways of seeing and being that are more in line with the love Christ had and continues to have through us.

Conclusion: pure love never dies.

Which Premise is wrong.

---

Premise 1 is wrong because it is directly refuted by Scripture. No, from the perspective of God's love and grace the reconciliation has already taken place. Has God not already forgiven us before we even ask?


the only way to God is through Jesus.. you discount the faith requirement, it is there as He planned it.



Premise 2 is misleading because it implies that God will forgive all sins of all people (universalism), while the Bible says that the sins of those who believe will be forgiven. Point out to me where Jesus said "I will forgive you but only if you are believer and before I heal you?

you must have the faith of a mustard seed and Jesus only healed those that believed



Premise 3 doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say that Jesus died for sin, but not my sin? Are we back to universalism? Maybe so. Again, from God's perspective we are already forgiven. Grace , a gift, has no requirements. You must address that theological and philosophical principle first.

again, it has basic requirements.. nobody comes to the father except through Jesus



The final statement (reflecting) is most likely wrong because Christ showed His love for people by seeking their repentance and turning back to God (their ultimate good), No Jesus never sought repentance as a condition for His love. Jesus simply loves us but the repentance of our sins means we have life more abundantly. Gratitude and turning around and works are our response to that love. In Latin a priori means "what comes first." Love comes first.

while I suspect the author of this piece believes that Christ's love means affirming people's sins (the road which seems right to a man, but the end of which is death, as set out in Proverbs 14:12). Proverbs is OT thought but Jesus teaches love is the first commandment. No one is affirming sin that's your straw man and it is wrong

---

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Heaven help any flock you shepherded Your sermons must rank up there with Joel Osteens..

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An accusation without proof.

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proof?

You are posting proof after proof.

Your "sin all you want because you are redeemed by grace" is no different than Osteens "ask for riches and God will give it because the Bible said so"

Its just another version of feel good Relgion instead of the truth.

It is not your way but His way.. it is not my way but His way. There is no other way but thru Him alone.

John 16 should help

Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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CammoTX said:

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Waco1947 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Peter 2:24 disagrees with your first sentence

Old testiment God required blood sacrifice..

New testiment - God sacrifices Jesus and Jesus gave us communion with the blood and body of Christ

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God requiring anything is the opposite of grace

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I wonder if you might underestimate God's holiness and/or man's evil.

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Grace has no requirement. Grace is a gift.

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Grace certainly does have a requirement. Are you familiar with John 3:16? It doesn't say "everyone shall not perish," it says "whoever believes in Him" will not perish.

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If God is grace then God is full of grace, always forgiving and loving. If God is which is the scriptures are overwhelming witness. How can a requirement slip in?
To live fully in Christ one surely needs repentance but repentance is not a requirement of God. We are ill free will humans who sin but God's grace will abound all the more.

But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man's trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many. 16 And the gift is not like the effect of the one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the gift following many trespasses brings justification. 17 If, because of the one man's trespass, death reigned through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore just as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man's act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. 19 For just as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so through the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 But law came in, so that the trespass might increase, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so grace might also reign through justification leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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Forgiving of those who believe in Christ, not those who choose not to.

Do you honestly think every human being is going to heaven?

4th and Inches said:

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Waco1947 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Premise #1. I have never believed Jesus died FOR my sin...as a sacrifice that God required in order to forgive me.



Premise #2 Pure love always forgives, even when the person doing the harm doesn't/can't recognize how wrong their act is. And God is Pure Love. Or as I say the overwhelming witness of scripture is God is love.


Premise #3 I do, however, believe Jesus died because of sin. The same sin that exists today: lust for power and control, the inability to see people who are different than me as humans who have just as much right to think and love and believe as I do, the prioritization of some over others based on societal constructs that are completely arbitrary, the proliferation of hate and anger and fear...the list could go on and on.

So today, I will be reflecting upon my role in perpetuating the systems that continue to crucify my fellow human beings. Not as a way to wallow in guilt or shame, but to think about alternative ways of seeing and being that are more in line with the love Christ had and continues to have through us.

Conclusion: pure love never dies.

Which Premise is wrong.

---

Premise 1 is wrong because it is directly refuted by Scripture. No, from the perspective of God's love and grace the reconciliation has already taken place. Has God not already forgiven us before we even ask?


the only way to God is through Jesus.. you discount the faith requirement, it is there as He planned it.



Premise 2 is misleading because it implies that God will forgive all sins of all people (universalism), while the Bible says that the sins of those who believe will be forgiven. Point out to me where Jesus said "I will forgive you but only if you are believer and before I heal you?

you must have the faith of a mustard seed and Jesus only healed those that believed



Premise 3 doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say that Jesus died for sin, but not my sin? Are we back to universalism? Maybe so. Again, from God's perspective we are already forgiven. Grace , a gift, has no requirements. You must address that theological and philosophical principle first.

again, it has basic requirements.. nobody comes to the father except through Jesus



The final statement (reflecting) is most likely wrong because Christ showed His love for people by seeking their repentance and turning back to God (their ultimate good), No Jesus never sought repentance as a condition for His love. Jesus simply loves us but the repentance of our sins means we have life more abundantly. Gratitude and turning around and works are our response to that love. In Latin a priori means "what comes first." Love comes first.

while I suspect the author of this piece believes that Christ's love means affirming people's sins (the road which seems right to a man, but the end of which is death, as set out in Proverbs 14:12). Proverbs is OT thought but Jesus teaches love is the first commandment. No one is affirming sin that's your straw man and it is wrong

---

---

Heaven help any flock you shepherded Your sermons must rank up there with Joel Osteens..

---

An accusation without proof.

---

proof?

You are posting proof after proof.

Your "sin all you want because you are redeemed by grace" is no different than Osteens "ask for riches and God will give it because the Bible said so" Don't lie about me. I did not say this. You twist my posting of Romans Paul said, not me, "But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,"

Its just another version of feel good Religion instead of the truth.

It is not your way but His way.. it is not my way but His way. There is no other way but thru Him alone.

John 16 should help

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Waco1947 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Waco1947 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Premise #1. I have never believed Jesus died FOR my sin...as a sacrifice that God required in order to forgive me.



Premise #2 Pure love always forgives, even when the person doing the harm doesn't/can't recognize how wrong their act is. And God is Pure Love. Or as I say the overwhelming witness of scripture is God is love.


Premise #3 I do, however, believe Jesus died because of sin. The same sin that exists today: lust for power and control, the inability to see people who are different than me as humans who have just as much right to think and love and believe as I do, the prioritization of some over others based on societal constructs that are completely arbitrary, the proliferation of hate and anger and fear...the list could go on and on.

So today, I will be reflecting upon my role in perpetuating the systems that continue to crucify my fellow human beings. Not as a way to wallow in guilt or shame, but to think about alternative ways of seeing and being that are more in line with the love Christ had and continues to have through us.

Conclusion: pure love never dies.

Which Premise is wrong.

---

Premise 1 is wrong because it is directly refuted by Scripture. No, from the perspective of God's love and grace the reconciliation has already taken place. Has God not already forgiven us before we even ask?


the only way to God is through Jesus.. you discount the faith requirement, it is there as He planned it.



Premise 2 is misleading because it implies that God will forgive all sins of all people (universalism), while the Bible says that the sins of those who believe will be forgiven. Point out to me where Jesus said "I will forgive you but only if you are believer and before I heal you?

you must have the faith of a mustard seed and Jesus only healed those that believed



Premise 3 doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say that Jesus died for sin, but not my sin? Are we back to universalism? Maybe so. Again, from God's perspective we are already forgiven. Grace , a gift, has no requirements. You must address that theological and philosophical principle first.

again, it has basic requirements.. nobody comes to the father except through Jesus



The final statement (reflecting) is most likely wrong because Christ showed His love for people by seeking their repentance and turning back to God (their ultimate good), No Jesus never sought repentance as a condition for His love. Jesus simply loves us but the repentance of our sins means we have life more abundantly. Gratitude and turning around and works are our response to that love. In Latin a priori means "what comes first." Love comes first.

while I suspect the author of this piece believes that Christ's love means affirming people's sins (the road which seems right to a man, but the end of which is death, as set out in Proverbs 14:12). Proverbs is OT thought but Jesus teaches love is the first commandment. No one is affirming sin that's your straw man and it is wrong

---

---

Heaven help any flock you shepherded Your sermons must rank up there with Joel Osteens..

---

An accusation without proof.

---

proof?

You are posting proof after proof.

Your "sin all you want because you are redeemed by grace" is no different than Osteens "ask for riches and God will give it because the Bible said so" Don't lie about me. I did not say this. You twist my posting of Romans Paul said, not me, "But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,"

Its just another version of feel good Religion instead of the truth.

It is not your way but His way.. it is not my way but His way. There is no other way but thru Him alone.

John 16 should help

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read Romans 6 for clarification of that statement out of Romans 5

Faith in Christ gives us a spiritual death from Sin, we are reborn spiritually connected to Christ and the natural desire to sin has been reduced/removed. This is the connection where you are used by Christ for His righteousness.

Those who claim Him, but do not know Him, struggle with sin. God's grace is freely given to all those through faith, if you are not feeling His grace and reduced desire to sin then you do not know Him. Too many fail to ask for forgiveness and have the faith of a mustard seed:.

I do not know you, but you do not speak as if you know God. I will pray for you.

This is how God moves in peoples lives when they know Him

#mytestimony

My parents divorced when I was three. My dad became a Christian and my mom wanted nothing to do with God. She ran off leaving me and my dad only to return 18 months later to kidnap me. A vicious and nearly continuous custody battle ensued over the next 10+ years.…

— Chuck (@look2Christ) April 5, 2024