BellCountyBear said:

---

So you're saying God changes with the times?

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

Waco1947 said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

So you're saying God changes with the times?

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

Welp. Bound to happen. You left the passage to include culture's disputed ideas of "sexuality" as opposed to Paul's sex distinctions. Blew a perfectly reasonable approach to your OP. We Baptists' set enough Claymores for you to play with without trying to bring another in to buttress your personal interpretations.

Waco1947 said:

---

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) Southern Baptists narrowly rejected a proposal Wednesday to enshrine a ban on churches with women pastors in their constitution after opponents argued it was unnecessary because the denomination already has a way of ousting such churches.
The measure received support from 61% of the delegates, but it failed to get the required two-thirds supermajority.

---

I'm confused

They rejected a conservative ban and yet you are still attacking the Southern Baptists?

I mean leaving aside the theological discussion around female pastors....the proposal itself failed....isn't that what you wanted?

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

No, you are putting your eisegesis into the passage.

Paul is stating that ALL have access to God and his kingdom thru Jesus. Their status in life is of no concern to God. We are all children of God if we are male/female, slave/free, blue/brown eyed, redhead/brunette, etc.

You are reading into the passage.

---

Prove me wrong -- why is your interpretation or eisegesis right and my is wrong?

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

Love how an ancient cult leader probably just had a fight with one of his wives and decided to throw that one in there

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

/cut and dried? No
Matthew 28 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."

8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

These women are the first to witness the Jesus death and the resurrection, they were by the spirit of God to share the good news.
God entrusted these who not defect Jesus like the male disciples. The women are first at the tomb in all the gospels and given the power to share the good news. God gave them the power.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

Love how an ancient cult leader probably just had a fight with one of his wives and decided to throw that one in there

---

lol another classic conservative take from the "principled conservative" Ron

The revealed and Holy word of God was probably just created by some ancient bronze age cult leader with a grudge against the old ball and chain.

You're a fascinating specimen

---

In what world does being a conservative have anything to do with Christianity?

Waco1947 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

No, you are putting your eisegesis into the passage.

Paul is stating that ALL have access to God and his kingdom thru Jesus. Their status in life is of no concern to God. We are all children of God if we are male/female, slave/free, blue/brown eyed, redhead/brunette, etc.

You are reading into the passage.

---

Prove me wrong -- why is your interpretation or eisegesis right and my is wrong?

---

You are adding sexuality into this passage. Paul is not. In Chapter 3 he is discussing faith, redemption, and the law. The passage you quoted ONLY discusses that ALL are children of God.

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

Paul here is talking about marriage conflict in context. The words for man and woman he uses here are synonymous with wife and husband. Extrapolating two sentences on interpersonal marital relations between two people into a full ban on women leaders among an entire church body has always been asinine and cultural, not biblical.

He's pointing all this back to the man's headship over the home, not church polity.

ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

Love how an ancient cult leader probably just had a fight with one of his wives and decided to throw that one in there

---

lol another classic conservative take from the "principled conservative" Ron

The revealed and Holy word of God was probably just created by some ancient bronze age cult leader with a grudge against the old ball and chain.

You're a fascinating specimen

---

In what world does being a conservative have anything to do with Christianity?

---

Where do you think Western Conservativism as a political movement got its moral views?

Waco1947 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

/cut and dried? No
Matthew 28 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."

8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

These women are the first to witness the Jesus death and the resurrection, they were by the spirit of God to share the good news.
God entrusted these who not defect Jesus like the male disciples. The women are first at the tomb in all the gospels and given the power to share the good news. God gave them the power.

---

What you failed to notice is that Jesus had to tell them word for word EXACTLY what to say because he didn't trust them to not screw it up and make up their own nonsense, like you do.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

Love how an ancient cult leader probably just had a fight with one of his wives and decided to throw that one in there

---

lol another classic conservative take from the "principled conservative" Ron

The revealed and Holy word of God was probably just created by some ancient bronze age cult leader with a grudge against the old ball and chain.

You're a fascinating specimen

---

In what world does being a conservative have anything to do with Christianity?

---

Where do you think Western Conservativism as a political movement got its moral views?

---

Contrary to popular belief slavery wasn't invented here. I'm not sure about witch burning. What moral views were you referring to?

BellCountyBear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12


New International Version



11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

seems pretty cut and dry

---

Love how an ancient cult leader probably just had a fight with one of his wives and decided to throw that one in there

---

lol another classic conservative take from the "principled conservative" Ron

The revealed and Holy word of God was probably just created by some ancient bronze age cult leader with a grudge against the old ball and chain.

You're a fascinating specimen

---

In what world does being a conservative have anything to do with Christianity?

---

Are you accidentally or intentionally moronic?

---

Coming from the crowd that never grew out of **** their mother told them to stop from masturbating

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

No, you are putting your eisegesis into the passage.

Paul is stating that ALL have access to God and his kingdom thru Jesus. Their status in life is of no concern to God. We are all children of God if we are male/female, slave/free, blue/brown eyed, redhead/brunette, etc.

You are reading into the passage.

---

Prove me wrong -- why is your interpretation or eisegesis right and my is wrong?

---

You are adding sexuality into this passage. Paul is not. In Chapter 3 he is discussing faith, redemption, and the law. The passage you quoted ONLY discusses that ALL are children of God. I agree with your exegesis but our sexuality has nothing to do with our faith, redemption, or the law.

---

Paul says, Galatians 3: 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. The "YOU" who are baptized or clothed in Christ means the church at Galatia. In that fellowship of believers in Christ means their sexuality is a "no-never mind." When Paul said neither male or female he implicitly and explicit he means one's sexuality; otherwise, why bring up our gender?

TWD 1974 said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

So you're saying God changes with the times?

---

Our human understanding of the form and function of a pastor has changed. Otherwise, we would require them to all be tent makers.

---

"Our human understanding of the form and function of God has changed." As one examines the love commandment of Jesus and I John 3 "God is love" one is confronted with a whole hosts of idea about the form and function of God The consequences of this radical idea understanding means ALL scripture must conform to these two passages. These two passages together are the overwhelming foundational witness of SCRIPTURE and our faith.

Prove me wrong that God is love and we are to love this God of love and love our neighbor and that any theological and philosophical of any understanding of God must meet meet meet this standard.
If our understanding of God does not deal seriously and honestly with these principles then we are to be pitied.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BellCountyBear said:

---

So you're saying God changes with the times?

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

Can you even ballpark the number of people you have led to hell?

---

#bodycount

Waco1947 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

No, you are putting your eisegesis into the passage.

Paul is stating that ALL have access to God and his kingdom thru Jesus. Their status in life is of no concern to God. We are all children of God if we are male/female, slave/free, blue/brown eyed, redhead/brunette, etc.

You are reading into the passage.

---

Prove me wrong -- why is your interpretation or eisegesis right and my is wrong?

---

because it doesnt fit the global context of the words in the book. Much like when people take six to 10 words out of one passage in the whole book to claim they are right on a topic, this fits that scenario.

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Ephesians 5:2225 speaks of the relationship between husband and wife and includes the teaching of Jesus as head of the church:

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."

1 Timothy 2:12 ESV

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:34-38ESV

34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

No, you are putting your eisegesis into the passage.

Paul is stating that ALL have access to God and his kingdom thru Jesus. Their status in life is of no concern to God. We are all children of God if we are male/female, slave/free, blue/brown eyed, redhead/brunette, etc.

You are reading into the passage.

---

Prove me wrong -- why is your interpretation or eisegesis right and my is wrong?

---

because it doesnt fit the global context of the words in the book. Much like when people take six to 10 words out of one passage in the whole book to claim they are right on a topic, this fits that scenario.

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Ephesians 5:2225 speaks of the relationship between husband and wife and includes the teaching of Jesus as head of the church:

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."

1 Timothy 2:12 ESV

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:34-38ESV

34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

---

Good luck with that approach !

LOL

KaiBear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

No, you are putting your eisegesis into the passage.

Paul is stating that ALL have access to God and his kingdom thru Jesus. Their status in life is of no concern to God. We are all children of God if we are male/female, slave/free, blue/brown eyed, redhead/brunette, etc.

You are reading into the passage.

---

Prove me wrong -- why is your interpretation or eisegesis right and my is wrong?

---

because it doesnt fit the global context of the words in the book. Much like when people take six to 10 words out of one passage in the whole book to claim they are right on a topic, this fits that scenario.

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Ephesians 5:2225 speaks of the relationship between husband and wife and includes the teaching of Jesus as head of the church:

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."

1 Timothy 2:12 ESV

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:34-38ESV

34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

---

Good luck with that approach !

LOL

---

debating with others who see the world different than you can help you increase your own understanding.

For instance, most of the time when quoted, it is common to stop at 1 Corinthians 14:35 when 36 to 38 are very important too, especially in this instance.

The older I have grown, the deeper into the words mean, especially when combined with individual prayer and reflection with the Holy Spirit..

I have visited churches where the spirit was strong and I have visited churches where the spirit was noticably absent. The people of each church were very nice and caring but the church didnt feel like a house of the Lord. IYKYK

4th and Inches said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

No, I am saying that understanding of God has changed. As Paul describes the role of sexuality in church, he clearly states Galatians 3: for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. 27 As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Paul is addressing the church and clearly states - In Christ there is neither male or female for we are one Christ. In my view when God calls a person to ministry God does not look at one's sexuality and when God sees churches pulpits God does not sexuality but only that they preach the good news.

---

No, you are putting your eisegesis into the passage.

Paul is stating that ALL have access to God and his kingdom thru Jesus. Their status in life is of no concern to God. We are all children of God if we are male/female, slave/free, blue/brown eyed, redhead/brunette, etc.

You are reading into the passage.

---

Prove me wrong -- why is your interpretation or eisegesis right and my is wrong?

---

because it doesnt fit the global context of the words in the book. Much like when people take six to 10 words out of one passage in the whole book to claim they are right on a topic, this fits that scenario.

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Ephesians 5:2225 speaks of the relationship between husband and wife and includes the teaching of Jesus as head of the church:

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."

1 Timothy 2:12 ESV

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:34-38ESV

34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

---

Good luck with that approach !

LOL

---

debating with others who see the world different than you can help you increase your own understanding.

For instance, most of the time when quoted, it is common to stop at 1 Corinthians 14:35 when 36 to 38 are very important too, especially in this instance.

The older I have grown, the deeper into the words mean, especially when combined with individual prayer and reflection with the Holy Spirit..

I have visited churches where the spirit was strong and I have visited churches where the spirit was noticably absent. The people of each church were very nice and caring but the church didnt feel like a house of the Lord. IYKYK

---

Debating with others usually results in nothing but bruised egos.

In this forum its just an amusing way to interact with a wide spectrum of individuals.

A handful provide beneficial information and many of whom only serve as a reminder why there are so many apartments under construction.

In this particular case was merely attempting to share a joke with you.
As most women are rarely silent in Church and never submissive.

Obviously my humor was off the mark and I apologize.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

While I support women in ministry, my concern (as someone shared on another thread) is stopping there. Every church I know that supports women pastors has moved quickly to basically putting the Gaystapo at the head of the local church. The amount of churches led by Truett graduates having huge "pride month" activities is shocking. Imagine a church celebrating Lust, Greed, Envy month.

---

Heresy isn't in the business of "stopping there.". What needs to change in the face of the evidence is your support of pastorettes.