Link

"Rishi Sunak, the British Prime Minister, recently shocked the nation with a proposal reminiscent of social credit systems for the United Kingdom. The plan suggested restricting access to essential modern conveniences, like cars and financial services, for young individuals refusing to participate in National Service. During a Thursday night national television forum, electoral party heads fielded audience questions on a BBC-hosted program.
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Sunak found himself defending a novel electoral promise the introduction of mandatory national service for British youths if he could retain his seat. Despite bleak poll evaluations and mounting public pressure, Sunak refused to accept the possibility of defeat.

The Prime Minister utilized the case of a volunteer ambulance service to illustrate potential forms of obligated volunteering. Nonetheless, the public's worry and debates have predominantly revolved around the compulsory military aspect of National Service.

Sunak, however, sidestepped elaborating on how the government plans to coerce young individuals into the service, seemingly caught off guard when questioned directly about the compulsory factor. He hinted at the possibility of curtailing rights to essential modern living components, while conveniently passing the buck onto an unspecified "independent body."

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

Realitybites said:

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The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

These are the people who sacked Churchill two months after VE Day. They like to be serviced, not serve.

It will only apply to native born citizens.

They dare not tell immigrants, especially from radical countries, what is required for basic social services.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years. Would serve a whole bunch of people well.

nein51 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years. Would serve a whole bunch of people well.

---

There is some merit. I just do not have confidence we could execute a two-year "national service" that would not turn into a political tool for the radical left. "National Service" would be building centers for gay kids but not homes for mom's that do not want to have abortions. The left politicizes everything, so have zero confidence we could create a "neutral" National Service.

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

---

The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

---

What about pre-med students? Are we willing to lengthen their already very long payouts by two years and decrease the supply of doctors?

Engineering students? Finance?

I know there's some merit to military service, but I don't think it would outweigh the cost of delaying the careers of every single American by two years.

Bestweekeverr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

---

What about pre-med students? Are we willing to lengthen their already very long payouts by two years and decrease the supply of doctors?

Engineering students? Finance?

I know there's some merit to military service, but I don't think it would outweigh the cost of delaying the careers of every single American by two years.

---

You don't think a doctor would be well served to train as a medic by before being a doctor? Or an engineer working in an engineering MOS for two years? I would put out that you get better more useful doctors and engineers. You could also work it into training.

IMO, everyone should be lower enlisted once in their life, it gives you a different perspective than only being at the top of the food chain.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years. Would serve a whole bunch of people well.

---

There is some merit. I just do not have confidence we could execute a two-year "national service" that would not turn into a political tool for the radical left. "National Service" would be building centers for gay kids but not homes for mom's that do not want to have abortions. The left politicizes everything, so have zero confidence we could create a "neutral" National Service.

---

Yeah no I don't mean volunteer at a shelter. I mean full on military service.

My Baylor roommate joined the Air Force to pay for his med school rather than borrowing money.

After finishing med school, he served a few years at an Air Force base making $85k per year. That was decent pay on a base in the early 90s. Plus, he had zero debt.

Bestweekeverr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

---

What about pre-med students? Are we willing to lengthen their already very long payouts by two years and decrease the supply of doctors?

Engineering students? Finance?

I know there's some merit to military service, but I don't think it would outweigh the cost of delaying the careers of every single American by two years.

---

I think you have to weigh the overall size of the population and additional market dynamics. The larger the population, the more critical mass and multiplier effect you have. Britain is a small population.. I don't know if we currently have shortages on anything other than possibly teachers (low pay, but mostly due to zero discipline allowed, and out-of-control children with horrible parents) And police - thanks to BLM and now Palestinian terror supporters.

nein51 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years.

---

OK then let's start with retired old white guys.

Otherwise there will be more burning, looting and then the inevitable court cases over turning the entire program.

nein51 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years. Would serve a whole bunch of people well.

---

There is some merit. I just do not have confidence we could execute a two-year "national service" that would not turn into a political tool for the radical left. "National Service" would be building centers for gay kids but not homes for mom's that do not want to have abortions. The left politicizes everything, so have zero confidence we could create a "neutral" National Service.

---

Yeah no I don't mean volunteer at a shelter. I mean full on military service.

---

As you are aware I'm sure, this is the way we many many Americans did it in this country for generations. Massive social upheavals in the 60's changed all that.

Also, Medical students should really consider the Joel Fleischman method of paying for the high cost of medical school.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

They are socialist already. A couple years of public service will be good for them. It will build character, and lord knows the little ****s of today need more character.

KaiBear said:

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nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years.

---

OK then let's start with retired old white guys.

Otherwise there will be more burning, looting and then the inevitable court cases over turning the entire program.

---

Any self respecting retired old white guy wouldn't bat an eye. At least all the ones I know. Hell, most of them are volunteering somewhere already.

FLBear5630 said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

---

What about pre-med students? Are we willing to lengthen their already very long payouts by two years and decrease the supply of doctors?

Engineering students? Finance?

I know there's some merit to military service, but I don't think it would outweigh the cost of delaying the careers of every single American by two years.

---

You don't think a doctor would be well served to train as a medic by before being a doctor? Or an engineer working in an engineering MOS for two years? I would put out that you get better more useful doctors and engineers. You could also work it into training.

IMO, everyone should be lower enlisted once in their life, it gives you a different perspective than only being at the top of the food chain.

---

This. Watch 5 minutes of these 20 something girls who are broadcasting live video of them having a mental breakdown in their car because they thought they should already be making $150K and aren't able to afford rent for a their luxury apartment with no roommate, a brand new car payment, gym memberships, and new iphones on their entry level marketing assistant salary. Then tell us these little brats don't need to do a little extra

FLBear5630 said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

---

What about pre-med students? Are we willing to lengthen their already very long payouts by two years and decrease the supply of doctors?

Engineering students? Finance?

I know there's some merit to military service, but I don't think it would outweigh the cost of delaying the careers of every single American by two years.

---

You don't think a doctor would be well served to train as a medic by before being a doctor? Or an engineer working in an engineering MOS for two years? I would put out that you get better more useful doctors and engineers. You could also work it into training.

IMO, everyone should be lower enlisted once in their life, it gives you a different perspective than only being at the top of the food chain.

---

A triage surgeon? Maybe. A pediatrician, dermatologist, oncologist? No. I think the vast majority of doctors would be better off learning Organic Chemistry, biology, and anatomy or actual service experience in their desired field than 2 years of being a medic mainly treating dehydration of other soldier. I think most engineers would be better off learning physics, architecture, and calculus than 2 years of fixing trucks.

I feel like most professionals get the perspective you are talking about once they graduate and are at the bottom of the food chain as interns, entry level positions, residents, etc.

KaiBear said:

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nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years.

---

OK then let's start with retired old white guys.

Otherwise there will be more burning, looting and then the inevitable court cases over turning the entire program.

---

I'm an old white guy (though not that old) and I'm too fat to be of value in combat but if that's what was required of me, as long as I could physically do it, I would.

FTR there's a 0% chance we will ever have conscription on that level but we should. It's very common outside the U.S.

Bestweekeverr said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Bestweekeverr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

---

The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

---

What about pre-med students? Are we willing to lengthen their already very long payouts by two years and decrease the supply of doctors?

Engineering students? Finance?

I know there's some merit to military service, but I don't think it would outweigh the cost of delaying the careers of every single American by two years.

---

You don't think a doctor would be well served to train as a medic by before being a doctor? Or an engineer working in an engineering MOS for two years? I would put out that you get better more useful doctors and engineers. You could also work it into training.

IMO, everyone should be lower enlisted once in their life, it gives you a different perspective than only being at the top of the food chain.

---

A triage surgeon? Maybe. A pediatrician, dermatologist, oncologist? No. I think the vast majority of doctors would be better off learning Organic Chemistry, biology, and anatomy or actual service experience in their desired field than 2 years of being a medic mainly treating dehydration of other soldier. I think most engineers would be better off learning physics, architecture, and calculus than 2 years of fixing trucks.

I feel like most professionals get the perspective you are talking about once they graduate and are at the bottom of the food chain as interns, entry level positions, residents, etc.

---

You do know COE is not motorpool, right??

KaiBear said:

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nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years.

---

OK then let's start with retired old white guys.

Otherwise there will be more burning, looting and then the inevitable court cases over turning the entire program.

---

When you signing up Kai? Expect u to be at the front of the line.

BearN said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

They are socialist already. A couple years of public service will be good for them. It will build character, and lord knows the little ****s of today need more character.

---

Interesting you say that. Sunak is Prime Minister representing the Conservative Party In England. His former Hedge Fund associates and Goldman Sachs associates would be surprised at your claims of socialism for him.

FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

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nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years.

---

OK then let's start with retired old white guys.

Otherwise there will be more burning, looting and then the inevitable court cases over turning the entire program.

---

When you signing up Kai? Expect u to be at the front of the line.

---

If dragged into this pipe dream 2 year service program, I could physically cut it. As in this minute.

Unlike the majority of our hopelessly fat, bunch of video game heroes

Cobretti said:

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---

If I recall correctly....... In some cases service
does bring citizenship

KaiBear said:

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Cobretti said:

---

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If I recall correctly....... In some cases service
does bring citizenship

---

BearN said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Bestweekeverr said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The course of human events has certainly taken us a long way from "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

---

Quick question, what is the citizen responsibility for living in a Nation and taking advantage of the market, educational opportunities and security? Is there a level?

I believe everyone should serve 2 years, enlisted, in the military. If for no other reason to have a trained citizenry in case needed.

Thoughts? Nothing? Be able to pay out of it?

---

What about pre-med students? Are we willing to lengthen their already very long payouts by two years and decrease the supply of doctors?

Engineering students? Finance?

I know there's some merit to military service, but I don't think it would outweigh the cost of delaying the careers of every single American by two years.

---

You don't think a doctor would be well served to train as a medic by before being a doctor? Or an engineer working in an engineering MOS for two years? I would put out that you get better more useful doctors and engineers. You could also work it into training.

IMO, everyone should be lower enlisted once in their life, it gives you a different perspective than only being at the top of the food chain.

---

This. Watch 5 minutes of these 20 something girls who are broadcasting live video of them having a mental breakdown in their car because they thought they should already be making $150K and aren't able to afford rent for a their luxury apartment with no roommate, a brand new car payment, gym memberships, and new iphones on their entry level marketing assistant salary. Then tell us these little brats don't need to do a little extra

---

most of those lessons were taught in kindergarten if not pre-k.

It's difficult to raise kids correctly when your too busy with instagram and tick-tock to pay attention to your own child. It's much easier to hand them a tablet so they leave the folks alone.

We don't have the young citizenry capable of serving two mandatory years in much of anything.

This idea strikes me as one of those things that start well but can easily go very wrong.

People like to remind us that the 1950s are long gone. I look further back, to the America of the early 19th Century, which did not have a draft but did have a robust volunteer culture and serious attitude about working if you wanted to eat.

KaiBear said:

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Cobretti said:

---

---

If I recall correctly....... In some cases service
does bring citizenship

---

It does or did. My mom's dad was Belgian. He joined the US Army in Europe in order to become a U.S. citizen.

Having worn the uniform for the better part of a decade following 9-11, I'm glad I didn't serve alongside conscripts, and most everyone shares that view.

"among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,"

Mandatory national service as envisioned in the modern world is antithetical to the pursuit of happiness, with the possible exception of local militia in which able bodied men are enrolled.

...and it certainly is no cure for an entitlement mentality created by the malformation of our youth through poor parenting and maleducation.

KaiBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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KaiBear said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years.

---

OK then let's start with retired old white guys.

Otherwise there will be more burning, looting and then the inevitable court cases over turning the entire program.

---

When you signing up Kai? Expect u to be at the front of the line.

---

If dragged into this pipe dream 2 year service program, I could physically cut it. As in this minute.

Unlike the majority of our hopelessly fat, bunch of video game heroes

---

You know nothing of most people on here. Don't get how someone can speak with such certainty about what they do not know. First signal to not take seriously.

You do know that most 2 year service is for 18-20, right,? Nobody wants our old asses, no matter how supremely fit you are. Get it, supremely fit, rich businessman, rugged individual, perfect family, every bit the international man of mystery. What all aspire to be ...

Now if we can get over the ***** measuring, would you like to discuss policy or continue bragging and insulting?

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Amazing how the West is adopting authoritarianism before our eyes.

---

It won't be popular but I would be all for mandatory service for 2 years.

---

OK then let's start with retired old white guys.

Otherwise there will be more burning, looting and then the inevitable court cases over turning the entire program.

---

When you signing up Kai? Expect u to be at the front of the line.

---

If dragged into this pipe dream 2 year service program, I could physically cut it. As in this minute.

Unlike the majority of our hopelessly fat, bunch of video game heroes

---

You know nothing of most people on here. Don't get how someone can speak with such certainty about what they do not know. First signal to not take seriously.

You do know that most 2 year service is for 18-20, right,? Nobody wants our old asses, no matter how supremely fit you are. Get it, supremely fit, rich businessman, rugged individual, perfect family, every bit the international man of mystery. What all aspire to be ...

Now if we can get over the ***** measuring, would you like to discuss policy or continue bragging and insulting?

---

A. The whole point is that a mandatory 2 year 'service' program is doomed to failure. Very few are even remotely interested in serving the country and even fewer would willingly be drafted into such a program.

B. The only people with the time and possibly the resources to serve would be the older Americans. But the DATA shows that approximately 70% of adult Americans are FAT or OBESE. So it's a safe bet 70% of this bunch of internet geniuses are in the same condition.

C. Yes, I am fit. Work out 5 days a week and watch what I eat.
5'10" 175 lbs. Travel whenever my grandsons let me.

D. Not rich by my standards. In my world 'rich' begins at 20 million and I'm not there. However am very comfortable and lucky. Our family is strong due to my financial generosity and the unending emotional support of everyone by my wife of 43 years.


E. Not an international traveler any longer. Have seen much of the world and most of it is filthy and horribly overcrowded. Unfortunately the filth is now coming to our border so looking at other options. Possibly Spain or Portugal.

F. Really wish you would simply put me on ' ignore' as I can't fix what ails you. Don't have the time or patience and God knows you don't have the intellect in any case.




Have a wonderful day.

I'm sorry. To point A, who was planning to ask?