Open Marriage

37,234 Views | 404 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by historian
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
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TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.
LIB,MR BEARS
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TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.
"how do YOU define" that's like saying you have your truth and I have mine.

You're borrowing from religion. Why would an atheist do that?

Sanctity-the state or quality of being holy, sacred, or saintly.
"the site of the tomb was a place of sanctity for the ancient Egyptians"
h
Similar:
holiness
godliness
sacredness
blessedness
saintliness
sanctitude
spirituality
piety
piousness
devoutness
devotion
righteousness
goodness
virtue
virtuousness
purity
h
Opposite:
wickedness

ultimate importance and inviolability.
"the sanctity of human life"
h
Similar:
sacrosanctity
ultimate importance
inviolability

Even by the second definition, an open marriage strikes down that "ultimate importance"

Tinfoil has it right
TexasScientist
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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TexasScientist
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.
"how do YOU define" that's like saying you have your truth and I have mine.

You're borrowing from religion. Why would an atheist do that?

Sanctity-the state or quality of being holy, sacred, or saintly.
"the site of the tomb was a place of sanctity for the ancient Egyptians"
h
Similar:
holiness
godliness
sacredness
blessedness
saintliness
sanctitude
spirituality
piety
piousness
devoutness
devotion
righteousness
goodness
virtue
virtuousness
purity
h
Opposite:
wickedness

ultimate importance and inviolability.
"the sanctity of human life"
h
Similar:
sacrosanctity
ultimate importance
inviolability

Even by the second definition, an open marriage strikes down that "ultimate importance"

Tinfoil has it right
No it doesn't. They can still find ultimate importance and intimacy in their relationship. They may simply enjoy sharing in intimacy that comes from variety, or sharing with others they find attractive. It may even enhance the sanctity of their relationship. That seems to be a common finding by them.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
TexasScientist
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
shaking the dust from your feet may appear to be shunning, but it is not.

They spread the gospel (planted the seed) and moved on. They didn't wait on it to grow. One sows, another waters but it is God who gives the increase.

Jesus told the rich young ruler what he should do and then moved on after the guy left dejected.
LIB,MR BEARS
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TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.
"how do YOU define" that's like saying you have your truth and I have mine.

You're borrowing from religion. Why would an atheist do that?

Sanctity-the state or quality of being holy, sacred, or saintly.
"the site of the tomb was a place of sanctity for the ancient Egyptians"
h
Similar:
holiness
godliness
sacredness
blessedness
saintliness
sanctitude
spirituality
piety
piousness
devoutness
devotion
righteousness
goodness
virtue
virtuousness
purity
h
Opposite:
wickedness

ultimate importance and inviolability.
"the sanctity of human life"
h
Similar:
sacrosanctity
ultimate importance
inviolability

Even by the second definition, an open marriage strikes down that "ultimate importance"

Tinfoil has it right
No it doesn't. They can still find ultimate importance and intimacy in their relationship. They may simply enjoy sharing in intimacy that comes from variety, or sharing with others they find attractive. It may even enhance the sanctity of their relationship. That seems to be a common finding by them.
redefining words seems to be more common
LIB,MR BEARS
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TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.
show me the contradiction. I don't think you can.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.
But it's in the NT, and it does teach to shun. Can't get around those facts.

Just take the "L" gracefully, learn from it, and move on.
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.

No it doesn't. Jesus Himself often called out the Pharisees and others who violated God's commandments because they were hypocrites and evil. He also forgave those who repented such as tax collectors, some Pharisees, & the adulteress. It depends on who is being shunned & why.

Christ primarily commanded us to love one another. That's what differentiates Christianity from all other religions & philosophies. Shunning done as a form of discipleship & correction can be loving.
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
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TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.


My argument stands firm, you're playing make believe with definitions. You argued exactly how I said you would. Perverts don't think that they're perverts. But guess what they're still perverts.
Swingers by definition always try to bring others into their circles. Sexual perversions will always try to bring in new conquests.

Absolutely, Christians are to shun sexual perversions. It's a cancer for believers. Outside of telling them about the truth of Christ, they should stay far away from their practices. One can both love people while condemning practices.
Also, it affects others, Society is lessened by perversions. Don't care what Swingers think, they're living a depraved lifestyle. They know this. You know this. You just don't care. Pretend all you want, doesn't change reality.

You're not a serious poster. Weak arguments.
Waco1947
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

historian said:

Or just read the writings of Paul himself. I have but good scholarship means studying the historical- critical of Paul.


Paul loved egg roll and although not a big fan of everything in columns 1 and 2, he didn't ask for substitutions. So, are you unable to make a coherent argument?

You've repeatedly shown that you treat the Bible like a Chinese menu, picking and choosing as you please. I really don't feel the need to point this out. Again, I am a biblical scholar and in the main stream of historical - cultural criticism..

You do you. The fact that your church failed and was absorbed by another that does a better job with scripture, I see as a good thing.
My church failed?
Waco1947 ,la
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?

I am not a biblical Chinese menu scholar.
Here is the way I study scripture.
Textual criticism examines biblical manuscripts and their content to identify what the original text probably said. Source criticism searches the text for evidence of their original sources. Form criticism identifies short units of text seeking the setting of their origination.
Historical Criticism
Historical criticism, sometimes called the historical critical method, is concerned with establishing historical realities that might affect our understanding of what a text means. It grew out of the development of interest in classical history and archaeology in the eighteenth and nineteenth century and as part of a quest for more 'objectivity' in biblical interpretation. So, for example, we might be interested in the social make-up of the population of Corinth, and its reputation for (what we would now call) entrepreneurial initiative, in trying to find a context for Paul's discussion of group rivalries in 1 Cor 1 to 4.
Form Criticism
This approach, more commonly used in study of the gospels, is concerned with the form that passages take, and what this might tell us about their use prior to inclusion within the written texts as we have them. So it is commonly held that both Phil 2.611 and Col 1.1520 consist of pre-Pauline hymns that Paul has incorporated into his letterspurely on the basis of their written form.
Source Criticism
Again, this discipline is most concerned with the source documents of the gospels, but also is used in the study of letters. We have seen that most scholars believe that what we call 2 Corinthians is composed of two or more earlier documents which have been brought together (see pp 9295). There are also several theories about the composition of the Book of Revelation, either as originating as a series of visions over a long period of time, or as a text which has been editing once, twice or even three times!
Redaction Criticism
This focuses on the way an author has made use of his (or her) sources and shapes the material to offer a distinctive perspective, so again has been made use of in relation to the synoptic gospels. But there continues to be considerable debate about the relation between Paul's portrayal of himself in his letters and the way Luke edits his sources to depict Paul in Acts, highlighting some of Luke's particular concerns already evident from his gospel.
Textual Criticism
We have literally thousands of manuscripts and manuscript fragments from the early centuries, and these have some variations in them. Textual criticism is the discipline of deciding which is the most likely original text. For the vast majority, there is little significance in the variations, and these do not affect any key doctrinal issues. But on some occasions the variations contribute to discussion of an important issue. For example, we have already noted (p 87) that some early manuscripts do not include Paul's injunction for women to be silent in 1 Cor 14.3435, and this is a continuing subject of debate.
Canonical Criticism
'Canon' is the Greek word for reed or measuring rod, and the 'canon' of Scripture refers both to the rule of life that Scripture invites us into, but also the 'rule' governing what we include in what we call Scripture. Canonical criticism is concerned with reading one part of the New Testament in the context of what else the New Testament (and, ultimately, the whole Bible) says. Thus we need to read what James says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (James 2.1426) in the light of what Paul says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (Romans 4) and vice versa.
Literary Criticism
This is the name given to a range of approaches which have become important in the last 40 years and derive from more general approaches to literature. They are concerned with understanding the shape and effect of the text as we have it. Narrative criticism looks at the key features of stories and how they work. Of particular importance to the NT letters, rhetorical criticism is concerned with the shape and effect of texts as arguing a case. For example, in 1 Cor 15 we can find either three categories of rhetoric according to Greek thinking, or four categories according to Latin thinking, and this gives important insights into the way Paul is making his case.
Waco1947 ,la
Waco1947
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Response to your Chinese Menu comment.
Here is my approach to the Bible
Textual criticism examines biblical manuscripts and their content to identify what the original text probably said. Source criticism searches the text for evidence of their original sources. Form criticism identifies short units of text seeking the setting of their origination.
Historical Criticism
Historical criticism, sometimes called the historical critical method, is concerned with establishing historical realities that might affect our understanding of what a text means. It grew out of the development of interest in classical history and archaeology in the eighteenth and nineteenth century and as part of a quest for more 'objectivity' in biblical interpretation. So, for example, we might be interested in the social make-up of the population of Corinth, and its reputation for (what we would now call) entrepreneurial initiative, in trying to find a context for Paul's discussion of group rivalries in 1 Cor 1 to 4.
Form Criticism
This approach, more commonly used in study of the gospels, is concerned with the form that passages take, and what this might tell us about their use prior to inclusion within the written texts as we have them. So it is commonly held that both Phil 2.611 and Col 1.1520 consist of pre-Pauline hymns that Paul has incorporated into his letterspurely on the basis of their written form.
Source Criticism
Again, this discipline is most concerned with the source documents of the gospels, but also is used in the study of letters. We have seen that most scholars believe that what we call 2 Corinthians is composed of two or more earlier documents which have been brought together (see pp 9295). There are also several theories about the composition of the Book of Revelation, either as originating as a series of visions over a long period of time, or as a text which has been editing once, twice or even three times!
Redaction Criticism
This focuses on the way an author has made use of his (or her) sources and shapes the material to offer a distinctive perspective, so again has been made use of in relation to the synoptic gospels. But there continues to be considerable debate about the relation between Paul's portrayal of himself in his letters and the way Luke edits his sources to depict Paul in Acts, highlighting some of Luke's particular concerns already evident from his gospel.
Textual Criticism
We have literally thousands of manuscripts and manuscript fragments from the early centuries, and these have some variations in them. Textual criticism is the discipline of deciding which is the most likely original text. For the vast majority, there is little significance in the variations, and these do not affect any key doctrinal issues. But on some occasions the variations contribute to discussion of an important issue. For example, we have already noted (p 87) that some early manuscripts do not include Paul's injunction for women to be silent in 1 Cor 14.3435, and this is a continuing subject of debate.
Canonical Criticism
'Canon' is the Greek word for reed or measuring rod, and the 'canon' of Scripture refers both to the rule of life that Scripture invites us into, but also the 'rule' governing what we include in what we call Scripture. Canonical criticism is concerned with reading one part of the New Testament in the context of what else the New Testament (and, ultimately, the whole Bible) says. Thus we need to read what James says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (James 2.1426) in the light of what Paul says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (Romans 4) and vice versa.
Literary Criticism
This is the name given to a range of approaches which have become important in the last 40 years and derive from more general approaches to literature. They are concerned with understanding the shape and effect of the text as we have it. Narrative criticism looks at the key features of stories and how they work. Of particular importance to the NT letters, rhetorical criticism is concerned with the shape and effect of texts as arguing a case. For example, in 1 Cor 15 we can find either three categories of rhetoric according to Greek thinking, or four categories according to Latin thinking, and this gives important insights into the way Paul is making his case.
Waco1947 ,la
KaiBear
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The cut and paste ' minister ' returns still again.



Gotta luv the internet.
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
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Waco1947 said:


I am not a biblical Chinese menu scholar.
Here is the way I study scripture.
Textual criticism examines biblical manuscripts and their content to identify what the original text probably said. Source criticism searches the text for evidence of their original sources. Form criticism identifies short units of text seeking the setting of their origination.
Historical Criticism
Historical criticism, sometimes called the historical critical method, is concerned with establishing historical realities that might affect our understanding of what a text means. It grew out of the development of interest in classical history and archaeology in the eighteenth and nineteenth century and as part of a quest for more 'objectivity' in biblical interpretation. So, for example, we might be interested in the social make-up of the population of Corinth, and its reputation for (what we would now call) entrepreneurial initiative, in trying to find a context for Paul's discussion of group rivalries in 1 Cor 1 to 4.
Form Criticism
This approach, more commonly used in study of the gospels, is concerned with the form that passages take, and what this might tell us about their use prior to inclusion within the written texts as we have them. So it is commonly held that both Phil 2.611 and Col 1.1520 consist of pre-Pauline hymns that Paul has incorporated into his letterspurely on the basis of their written form.
Source Criticism
Again, this discipline is most concerned with the source documents of the gospels, but also is used in the study of letters. We have seen that most scholars believe that what we call 2 Corinthians is composed of two or more earlier documents which have been brought together (see pp 9295). There are also several theories about the composition of the Book of Revelation, either as originating as a series of visions over a long period of time, or as a text which has been editing once, twice or even three times!
Redaction Criticism
This focuses on the way an author has made use of his (or her) sources and shapes the material to offer a distinctive perspective, so again has been made use of in relation to the synoptic gospels. But there continues to be considerable debate about the relation between Paul's portrayal of himself in his letters and the way Luke edits his sources to depict Paul in Acts, highlighting some of Luke's particular concerns already evident from his gospel.
Textual Criticism
We have literally thousands of manuscripts and manuscript fragments from the early centuries, and these have some variations in them. Textual criticism is the discipline of deciding which is the most likely original text. For the vast majority, there is little significance in the variations, and these do not affect any key doctrinal issues. But on some occasions the variations contribute to discussion of an important issue. For example, we have already noted (p 87) that some early manuscripts do not include Paul's injunction for women to be silent in 1 Cor 14.3435, and this is a continuing subject of debate.
Canonical Criticism
'Canon' is the Greek word for reed or measuring rod, and the 'canon' of Scripture refers both to the rule of life that Scripture invites us into, but also the 'rule' governing what we include in what we call Scripture. Canonical criticism is concerned with reading one part of the New Testament in the context of what else the New Testament (and, ultimately, the whole Bible) says. Thus we need to read what James says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (James 2.1426) in the light of what Paul says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (Romans 4) and vice versa.
Literary Criticism
This is the name given to a range of approaches which have become important in the last 40 years and derive from more general approaches to literature. They are concerned with understanding the shape and effect of the text as we have it. Narrative criticism looks at the key features of stories and how they work. Of particular importance to the NT letters, rhetorical criticism is concerned with the shape and effect of texts as arguing a case. For example, in 1 Cor 15 we can find either three categories of rhetoric according to Greek thinking, or four categories according to Latin thinking, and this gives important insights into the way Paul is making his case.


Throughout church history and long before, as confirmed in the Bible, marriage is between man and woman, homosexuality was considered wrong.

Two Thousand years later, you're trying to bend words and history to fit your progressive world view. Your progressive beliefs rule your Christian beliefs, so you scour the internet for ways to piece your secular religions together. Doesn't change that your views are contrary to scripture, church history, and tradition.
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Waco1947 said:


I am not a biblical Chinese menu scholar.
Here is the way I study scripture.
Textual criticism examines biblical manuscripts and their content to identify what the original text probably said. Source criticism searches the text for evidence of their original sources. Form criticism identifies short units of text seeking the setting of their origination.
Historical Criticism
Historical criticism, sometimes called the historical critical method, is concerned with establishing historical realities that might affect our understanding of what a text means. It grew out of the development of interest in classical history and archaeology in the eighteenth and nineteenth century and as part of a quest for more 'objectivity' in biblical interpretation. So, for example, we might be interested in the social make-up of the population of Corinth, and its reputation for (what we would now call) entrepreneurial initiative, in trying to find a context for Paul's discussion of group rivalries in 1 Cor 1 to 4.
Form Criticism
This approach, more commonly used in study of the gospels, is concerned with the form that passages take, and what this might tell us about their use prior to inclusion within the written texts as we have them. So it is commonly held that both Phil 2.611 and Col 1.1520 consist of pre-Pauline hymns that Paul has incorporated into his letterspurely on the basis of their written form.
Source Criticism
Again, this discipline is most concerned with the source documents of the gospels, but also is used in the study of letters. We have seen that most scholars believe that what we call 2 Corinthians is composed of two or more earlier documents which have been brought together (see pp 9295). There are also several theories about the composition of the Book of Revelation, either as originating as a series of visions over a long period of time, or as a text which has been editing once, twice or even three times!
Redaction Criticism
This focuses on the way an author has made use of his (or her) sources and shapes the material to offer a distinctive perspective, so again has been made use of in relation to the synoptic gospels. But there continues to be considerable debate about the relation between Paul's portrayal of himself in his letters and the way Luke edits his sources to depict Paul in Acts, highlighting some of Luke's particular concerns already evident from his gospel.
Textual Criticism
We have literally thousands of manuscripts and manuscript fragments from the early centuries, and these have some variations in them. Textual criticism is the discipline of deciding which is the most likely original text. For the vast majority, there is little significance in the variations, and these do not affect any key doctrinal issues. But on some occasions the variations contribute to discussion of an important issue. For example, we have already noted (p 87) that some early manuscripts do not include Paul's injunction for women to be silent in 1 Cor 14.3435, and this is a continuing subject of debate.
Canonical Criticism
'Canon' is the Greek word for reed or measuring rod, and the 'canon' of Scripture refers both to the rule of life that Scripture invites us into, but also the 'rule' governing what we include in what we call Scripture. Canonical criticism is concerned with reading one part of the New Testament in the context of what else the New Testament (and, ultimately, the whole Bible) says. Thus we need to read what James says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (James 2.1426) in the light of what Paul says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (Romans 4) and vice versa.
Literary Criticism
This is the name given to a range of approaches which have become important in the last 40 years and derive from more general approaches to literature. They are concerned with understanding the shape and effect of the text as we have it. Narrative criticism looks at the key features of stories and how they work. Of particular importance to the NT letters, rhetorical criticism is concerned with the shape and effect of texts as arguing a case. For example, in 1 Cor 15 we can find either three categories of rhetoric according to Greek thinking, or four categories according to Latin thinking, and this gives important insights into the way Paul is making his case.


Throughout church history and long before, as confirmed in the Bible, marriage is between man and woman, homosexuality was considered wrong.

Two Thousand years later, you're trying to bend words and history to fit your progressive world view. Your progressive beliefs rule your Christian beliefs, so you scour the internet for ways to piece your secular religions together. Doesn't change that your views are contrary to scripture, church history, and tradition.


Many posters have provided old 47 detailed links to the appropriate scripture verses.

But ( for reasons only he knows ) the old fella has always been supportive of deviant behavior .

And at this late stage in his life ; he is not about to change course.


LIB,MR BEARS
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Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

historian said:

Or just read the writings of Paul himself. I have but good scholarship means studying the historical- critical of Paul.


Paul loved egg roll and although not a big fan of everything in columns 1 and 2, he didn't ask for substitutions. So, are you unable to make a coherent argument?

You've repeatedly shown that you treat the Bible like a Chinese menu, picking and choosing as you please. I really don't feel the need to point this out. Again, I am a biblical scholar and in the main stream of historical - cultural criticism..

You do you. The fact that your church failed and was absorbed by another that does a better job with scripture, I see as a good thing.
My church failed?
did you not ruin, I mean run, Austin Ave Methodist?
Waco1947
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

historian said:

Or just read the writings of Paul himself. I have but good scholarship means studying the historical- critical of Paul.


Paul loved egg roll and although not a big fan of everything in columns 1 and 2, he didn't ask for substitutions. So, are you unable to make a coherent argument?

You've repeatedly shown that you treat the Bible like a Chinese menu, picking and choosing as you please. I really don't feel the need to point this out. Again, I am a biblical scholar and in the main stream of historical - cultural criticism..

You do you. The fact that your church failed and was absorbed by another that does a better job with scripture, I see as a good thing.
My church failed?
did you not ruin, I mean run, Austin Ave Methodist?
That's doxing me. Shut the hell up. I was the st pastor
Waco1947 ,la
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

historian said:

Or just read the writings of Paul himself. I have but good scholarship means studying the historical- critical of Paul.


Paul loved egg roll and although not a big fan of everything in columns 1 and 2, he didn't ask for substitutions. So, are you unable to make a coherent argument?

You've repeatedly shown that you treat the Bible like a Chinese menu, picking and choosing as you please. I really don't feel the need to point this out. Again, I am a biblical scholar and in the main stream of historical - cultural criticism..

You do you. The fact that your church failed and was absorbed by another that does a better job with scripture, I see as a good thing.
My church failed?
did you not ruin, I mean run, Austin Ave Methodist?
That's doxing me. Shut the hell up. I was the st pastor
Shut up yourself, fake minister. You dance around boasting (pride is a sin) about your claim to be an ordained minister, yet you have never confirmed just where you are such a minister.

Given your poor choice of words, common use of spite, and utter lack of Christian spirit here in this forum, Waco, it is very much appropriate to doubt your claim that you are actually an ordained minister.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

Waco1947 said:


I am not a biblical Chinese menu scholar.
Here is the way I study scripture.
Textual criticism examines biblical manuscripts and their content to identify what the original text probably said. Source criticism searches the text for evidence of their original sources. Form criticism identifies short units of text seeking the setting of their origination.
Historical Criticism
Historical criticism, sometimes called the historical critical method, is concerned with establishing historical realities that might affect our understanding of what a text means. It grew out of the development of interest in classical history and archaeology in the eighteenth and nineteenth century and as part of a quest for more 'objectivity' in biblical interpretation. So, for example, we might be interested in the social make-up of the population of Corinth, and its reputation for (what we would now call) entrepreneurial initiative, in trying to find a context for Paul's discussion of group rivalries in 1 Cor 1 to 4.
Form Criticism
This approach, more commonly used in study of the gospels, is concerned with the form that passages take, and what this might tell us about their use prior to inclusion within the written texts as we have them. So it is commonly held that both Phil 2.611 and Col 1.1520 consist of pre-Pauline hymns that Paul has incorporated into his letterspurely on the basis of their written form.
Source Criticism
Again, this discipline is most concerned with the source documents of the gospels, but also is used in the study of letters. We have seen that most scholars believe that what we call 2 Corinthians is composed of two or more earlier documents which have been brought together (see pp 9295). There are also several theories about the composition of the Book of Revelation, either as originating as a series of visions over a long period of time, or as a text which has been editing once, twice or even three times!
Redaction Criticism
This focuses on the way an author has made use of his (or her) sources and shapes the material to offer a distinctive perspective, so again has been made use of in relation to the synoptic gospels. But there continues to be considerable debate about the relation between Paul's portrayal of himself in his letters and the way Luke edits his sources to depict Paul in Acts, highlighting some of Luke's particular concerns already evident from his gospel.
Textual Criticism
We have literally thousands of manuscripts and manuscript fragments from the early centuries, and these have some variations in them. Textual criticism is the discipline of deciding which is the most likely original text. For the vast majority, there is little significance in the variations, and these do not affect any key doctrinal issues. But on some occasions the variations contribute to discussion of an important issue. For example, we have already noted (p 87) that some early manuscripts do not include Paul's injunction for women to be silent in 1 Cor 14.3435, and this is a continuing subject of debate.
Canonical Criticism
'Canon' is the Greek word for reed or measuring rod, and the 'canon' of Scripture refers both to the rule of life that Scripture invites us into, but also the 'rule' governing what we include in what we call Scripture. Canonical criticism is concerned with reading one part of the New Testament in the context of what else the New Testament (and, ultimately, the whole Bible) says. Thus we need to read what James says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (James 2.1426) in the light of what Paul says about faith, works and the example of Abraham (Romans 4) and vice versa.
Literary Criticism
This is the name given to a range of approaches which have become important in the last 40 years and derive from more general approaches to literature. They are concerned with understanding the shape and effect of the text as we have it. Narrative criticism looks at the key features of stories and how they work. Of particular importance to the NT letters, rhetorical criticism is concerned with the shape and effect of texts as arguing a case. For example, in 1 Cor 15 we can find either three categories of rhetoric according to Greek thinking, or four categories according to Latin thinking, and this gives important insights into the way Paul is making his case.


Throughout church history and long before, as confirmed in the Bible, marriage is between man and woman, homosexuality was considered wrong.

Two Thousand years later, you're trying to bend words and history to fit your progressive world view. Your progressive beliefs rule your Christian beliefs, so you scour the internet for ways to piece your secular religions together. Doesn't change that your views are contrary to scripture, church history, and tradition.

Most important, such distortions of Scripture are contrary to God. We don't change God. He changes us. That is what becoming a Christian means. Likewise, repentance means turning away from sin not embracing it & allowing it to define oneself. Any church or doctrine that tries to reconcile sin with Christ is a false doctrine or false church.
LIB,MR BEARS
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Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

historian said:

Or just read the writings of Paul himself. I have but good scholarship means studying the historical- critical of Paul.


Paul loved egg roll and although not a big fan of everything in columns 1 and 2, he didn't ask for substitutions. So, are you unable to make a coherent argument?

You've repeatedly shown that you treat the Bible like a Chinese menu, picking and choosing as you please. I really don't feel the need to point this out. Again, I am a biblical scholar and in the main stream of historical - cultural criticism..

You do you. The fact that your church failed and was absorbed by another that does a better job with scripture, I see as a good thing.
My church failed?
did you not ruin, I mean run, Austin Ave Methodist?
That's doxing me. Shut the hell up. I was the st pastor

LIB: D7
Waco47: Oh! You sunk my battleship
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Waco1947 said:

historian said:

Or just read the writings of Paul himself. I have but good scholarship means studying the historical- critical of Paul.


Paul loved egg roll and although not a big fan of everything in columns 1 and 2, he didn't ask for substitutions. So, are you unable to make a coherent argument?

You've repeatedly shown that you treat the Bible like a Chinese menu, picking and choosing as you please. I really don't feel the need to point this out. Again, I am a biblical scholar and in the main stream of historical - cultural criticism..

You do you. The fact that your church failed and was absorbed by another that does a better job with scripture, I see as a good thing.
My church failed?
did you not ruin, I mean run, Austin Ave Methodist?
That's doxing me. Shut the hell up. I was the st pastor
Where did you obtain your theology degree ' minister ' ?
TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.
show me the contradiction. I don't think you can.
Jesus of the Gospels reached out to people (love thy neighbor), was inclusive, including prostitutes. He didn't shun anyone. You show me where he shunned anyone in the Gospels. I don't think you can.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TexasScientist
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.
But it's in the NT, and it does teach to shun. Can't get around those facts.

Just take the "L" gracefully, learn from it, and move on.
It's only in there by the action of men who pushed for its acceptance.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TexasScientist
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historian said:

TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.

No it doesn't. Jesus Himself often called out the Pharisees and others who violated God's commandments because they were hypocrites and evil. He also forgave those who repented such as tax collectors, some Pharisees, & the adulteress. It depends on who is being shunned & why.

Christ primarily commanded us to love one another. That's what differentiates Christianity from all other religions & philosophies. Shunning done as a form of discipleship & correction can be loving.
He called them out, but he didn't shun them. He even pointed out that the Good Samaritan didn't shun the Jewish traveler who had been beaten and robbed. I don't see how shunning is loving. That would be more of a contradiction. Jesus supposedly ate with sinners.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
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TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.
show me the contradiction. I don't think you can.
Jesus of the Gospels reached out to people (love thy neighbor), was inclusive, including prostitutes. He didn't shun anyone. You show me where he shunned anyone in the Gospels. I don't think you can.


You're not an Christian and your arguments show typical Reddit like shallowness. I get it, that's all you know but you are off. Your premise is that Christ continually and inclusively hung out with "practicing" prostitutes. Truth is he called for repentance from the sinful, and hung out with followers of His way. He talked and witnessed to sinners, loved them, but did not "accept" their sinful lifestyle. The lifestyle is what is to be shunned.

The church is absolutely not to accept sinful lifestyles into the body.
TexasScientist
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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.


My argument stands firm, you're playing make believe with definitions. You argued exactly how I said you would. Perverts don't think that they're perverts. But guess what they're still perverts.
Swingers by definition always try to bring others into their circles. Sexual perversions will always try to bring in new conquests.

Absolutely, Christians are to shun sexual perversions. It's a cancer for believers. Outside of telling them about the truth of Christ, they should stay far away from their practices. One can both love people while condemning practices.
Also, it affects others, Society is lessened by perversions. Don't care what Swingers think, they're living a depraved lifestyle. They know this. You know this. You just don't care. Pretend all you want, doesn't change reality.

You're not a serious poster. Weak arguments.
It's a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your particular version of Christianity that you have been reinforced to believe. For example, having more than one wife has been acceptable over time in Judaism, and in Christianity. It depends upon the flavor of the times, and who is advocating it, or condemning it. Organized societies determine what is right or wrong based upon whatever beliefs they collectively determine to be of value.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

historian said:

TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.

No it doesn't. Jesus Himself often called out the Pharisees and others who violated God's commandments because they were hypocrites and evil. He also forgave those who repented such as tax collectors, some Pharisees, & the adulteress. It depends on who is being shunned & why.

Christ primarily commanded us to love one another. That's what differentiates Christianity from all other religions & philosophies. Shunning done as a form of discipleship & correction can be loving.
He called them out, but he didn't shun them. He even pointed out that the Good Samaritan didn't shun the Jewish traveler who had been beaten and robbed. I don't see how shunning is loving. That would be more of a contradiction. Jesus supposedly ate with sinners.

I gave examples above. Here's a repeat:

Jesus Himself often called out the Pharisees and others who violated God's commandments because they were hypocrites and evil. He also forgave those who repented such as tax collectors, some Pharisees, & the adulteress. It depends on who is being shunned & why.

Christ primarily commanded us to love one another. That's what differentiates Christianity from all other religions & philosophies. Shunning done as a form of discipleship & correction can be loving.
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.


My argument stands firm, you're playing make believe with definitions. You argued exactly how I said you would. Perverts don't think that they're perverts. But guess what they're still perverts.
Swingers by definition always try to bring others into their circles. Sexual perversions will always try to bring in new conquests.

Absolutely, Christians are to shun sexual perversions. It's a cancer for believers. Outside of telling them about the truth of Christ, they should stay far away from their practices. One can both love people while condemning practices.
Also, it affects others, Society is lessened by perversions. Don't care what Swingers think, they're living a depraved lifestyle. They know this. You know this. You just don't care. Pretend all you want, doesn't change reality.

You're not a serious poster. Weak arguments.
It's a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your particular version of Christianity that you have been reinforced to believe. For example, having more than one wife has been acceptable over time in Judaism, and in Christianity. It depends upon the flavor of the times, and who is advocating it, or condemning it. Organized societies determine what is right or wrong based upon whatever beliefs they collectively determine to be of value.

It's a perversion if it doesn't conform to Christ's version of Christianity. That's the only one that matters because that's the only that's genuine.

When organized start creating their own morality based upon what some find convenient, they start to break down and become more chaotic, violent, and disorganized. It happened to Rome before the fall, ancien regime France before the Revolution (the big one), tsarist Russia before WWI, Weimar Germany before Hitler, and it's happening now in parts of Europe, Canada, & the U.S. all under the leadership of radical Leftists who don't even know what a woman is.
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.


My argument stands firm, you're playing make believe with definitions. You argued exactly how I said you would. Perverts don't think that they're perverts. But guess what they're still perverts.
Swingers by definition always try to bring others into their circles. Sexual perversions will always try to bring in new conquests.

Absolutely, Christians are to shun sexual perversions. It's a cancer for believers. Outside of telling them about the truth of Christ, they should stay far away from their practices. One can both love people while condemning practices.
Also, it affects others, Society is lessened by perversions. Don't care what Swingers think, they're living a depraved lifestyle. They know this. You know this. You just don't care. Pretend all you want, doesn't change reality.

You're not a serious poster. Weak arguments.
It's a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your particular version of Christianity that you have been reinforced to believe. For example, having more than one wife has been acceptable over time in Judaism, and in Christianity. It depends upon the flavor of the times, and who is advocating it, or condemning it. Organized societies determine what is right or wrong based upon whatever beliefs they collectively determine to be of value.


Wow, pretty sure out of the two of us, I understand the definitions and arguments here. So everything you just tried to add to your weak argument isn't proving anything or adding any meat to the conversation.

But thank you for reinforcing that swingers are a perversion. Clearly they are a perversion by Christian standards, and are still a perversion by societal standards. If teen kids were describing them, they'd say that they are gross and creepy. Adults on the other hand just laugh and look the other way, but they are gross and creepy.

In conclusion, swingers are "icky". They will always hunger for new conquests and new meat. As they age, the will be sad and pathetic paying dollars to fill the void when youthful attractiveness can no longer pay the sex bills. I pray they repent and lead a more faithful lifestyle through Christ.

To those here under the weight of the brutal task master named "sexual perversion", know that there is hope for you, first step is to seek Christ.
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

historian said:

TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.

No it doesn't. Jesus Himself often called out the Pharisees and others who violated God's commandments because they were hypocrites and evil. He also forgave those who repented such as tax collectors, some Pharisees, & the adulteress. It depends on who is being shunned & why.

Christ primarily commanded us to love one another. That's what differentiates Christianity from all other religions & philosophies. Shunning done as a form of discipleship & correction can be loving.
He called them out, but he didn't shun them. He even pointed out that the Good Samaritan didn't shun the Jewish traveler who had been beaten and robbed. I don't see how shunning is loving. That would be more of a contradiction. Jesus supposedly ate with sinners.
Shunning is used for those who claim to be part of the Church but refused to renounce their sin. It's hardly a 'contradiction' that the Christ who came to heal and reconcile, would reference the 'good neighbor' because he helped his neighbor, and the man who was robbed and beaten was not ever blamed for some sin in being attacked. That's really a big swing and a miss there, TS, and a hint that you don't understand Scripture at all.

But as for Christ's opinion of people who did not turn from sin, consider the temple merchants, Caiaphas, Herod, the Scribes and Pharisees in general. Listen, it's a touch more serious than 'calling out' someone to specifically say they will fare worse than the people from Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus made a point of not spending much time in the temples, preferring to preach and teach among the people. And while Jesus did sometimes go to the temples and synagogues, there is no record of Him ever attending a service officiated by Caiaphas or any of the hypocritical priests.

That's actually part of why they hated Jesus so much. A famous rabbi willing to visit with ordinary people, even eat with tax collectors for example, did so because they showed a desire to change, Jesus would not waste His time with hypocrites who had fine titles but no mercy or humility in their hearts.

Yes, that is an example of shunning by Christ, and it's all through the Gospel accounts if you pay attention. And Jesus did this in hopes that some of them would turn from their hypocrisy, which did happen in a few places.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
historian
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Nicodemus & Joseph of Arimathea.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

TexasScientist said:

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

From a Christian perspective, open marriages are unions based on adultery. They are sinful.

From a secular perspective, it's your right to live how you want. Truth is though, open marriages are unhealthy because it devalues intimate relationships and that sanctity between a man and a wife. It instead prioritizes hedonism over partner intimacy. I'd equate an open marriage with two "friends with benefits" living together, both seeking sexual perversion to spice their life up.

Last from a societal perspective, acceptance of this and pretending it doesn't or won't hurt anyone is wishful thinking. Sexual perversions always seek out others and the grooming of others. They will try to draw others into their perversions. Always happens.


It doesn't necessarily devalue the sanctity between a man and wife. How do you define perversion and how do you define sanctity?

I agree with the first three sentences, but after that it's really more about your religious viewpoint.


Of course it devalues the sanctity between a man and a wife.

Of course it's a perversion. I mean if you asked most any type of pervert if their "love" is a perversion, they'd say no as well. Swingers are no different in terms of deluding themselves.

As for a definition, please use a dictionary and actual societal norms.

Hedonistic and perverted people always want to play make believe and word games with definitions and norms. I don't play the make believe definition game. Really just reads like you're not a serious poster.

Last, perverts will always try to bring others in to their "sexual" world. They absolutely are bad news and should be treated as pariahs. The fact that they have not been shunned is the main reason why we have so many sick-in-the-head people in our society. Sure that shaming can go too far, but clearly the lack of shaming is worse, our society is a moral, inane, sexualized mess.

I think most swingers would say your particular views are a delusion in terms of your beliefs about relationships, and what constitutes a perversion. Your views have no more entitlement than theirs. Why shun someone for what works in the 'sanctity' of their relationship? It's only a perversion to you because it doesn't conform to your view. I haven't noticed any swingers trying to bring others into their world, but I've noticed a lot of religious people trying to bring others into their world, sometimes their sexual world. Should we shun them too. I don't remember seeing any alleged teachings of Jesus that recommended shunning people. Some might say, shunning is a perversion of Jesus' teachings. Religious piety is what's inane.
Jesus warned his churches to shun wicked people like Jezebel, who was promoting sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20)

Since you're an atheist, you probably shouldn't rely on what you "remember" about the teachings of Jesus.
Revelation. Isn't that one of the books that barely made it into the NT? Shunning contradicts the gospel teachings.
show me the contradiction. I don't think you can.
Jesus of the Gospels reached out to people (love thy neighbor), was inclusive, including prostitutes. He didn't shun anyone. You show me where he shunned anyone in the Gospels. I don't think you can.
"Depart from me. I never knew you".
 
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