Global population stuff

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Redbrickbear
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[It's not just Western civilization under threat. A few months ago, the WSJ reported on the "demographic winter" overtaking the world. More:
Quote:

Donald Trump, this year's presumptive Republican presidential nominee, has called collapsing fertility a bigger threat to Western civilization than Russia. A year ago Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida declared that the collapse of the country's birthrate left it "standing on the verge of whether we can continue to function as a society." Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni has prioritized raising the country's "demographic GDP."

Governments have rolled out programs to stop the decline-but so far they've barely made a dent.
More:

Quote:

Fernndez-Villaverde estimates global fertility fell to between 2.1 and 2.2 last year, which he said would be below global replacement for the first time in human history. Dean Spears, a population economist at the University of Texas at Austin, said while the data isn't good enough to know precisely when or if fertility has fallen below replacement, "we have enough evidence to be quite confident about…the crossing point not being far off."

In 2017 the U.N. projected world population, then 7.6 billion, would keep climbing to 11.2 billion in 2100. By 2022 it had lowered and brought forward the peak to 10.4 billion in the 2080s. That, too, is likely out of date. The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington now thinks it will peak around 9.5 billion in 2061 then start declining.

It's not a matter of not having enough money. Some rich countries, like Japan, make generous financial provision for child-raising. It's not working:

Quote:

Inoguchi, now a member of parliament's upper house, said the constraint on would-be parents is no longer money, but time. She has pressed the government and businesses to adopt a four-day workweek. She said, "If you're a government official or manager of a big corporation, you should not worry over questions of salary now, but that in 20 years time you will have no customers, no clients, no applicants to the Self-Defense Forces."

So what? you might say. There are too many people on the planet anyway. That's incredibly short-sighted. Leaving aside the spiritual and moral effects, consider that a shrinking world will be a poorer world. The elderly are especially going to suffer, as there won't be enough younger people around to care for them, or to subsidize their care. The young will not be willing to be taxed into oblivion to pay pensions and Medicare. Think about that before you embrace euthanasia. Old people are going to be compelled to commit suicide to stop being a burden on a shrinking and ever-more impoverished society a society that, having abandoned Christianity, has no sense of life's sanctity.]
BylrFan
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When child care is $200 a week on average and expenses for having kids/buying a home goes up, no one is going to want to have kids despite incentives.
TinFoilHatPreacherBear
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Many reasons, both moral and economic, but Inflation, until recently is the most overlooked hidden tax that has been destroying families and our way of life. Silently chipping away at disposable income, causing both parents to work. Breaking up the traditional family. No primary caretaker during the day. Kids become an obstacle to have to plan care around. Public schools become the baby sitter and primary source of morality.

Stop the central bank from printing unlimited money and inflation can be better controlled. Sadly globalists run our central bank and government, so the printing won't stop. We'll just silently get poorer.
Redbrickbear
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Assassin
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We've lost 60 million children in the US alone since Roe vs Wade. Might that have a bit to do with it?
Facebook Groups at; Memories of... Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Memories From a Texas Window and Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
Realitybites
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BylrFan said:

When child care is $200 a week on average and expenses for having kids/buying a home goes up, no one is going to want to have kids despite incentives.



If moms stay at home and raise kids, you don't need childcare. Feminist matriachy is the issue, not childcare.
Redbrickbear
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[John Burn-Murdoch, writing in the Financial Times (paywalled), says that depopulation is coming much faster than the United Nations has projected. For example, look at Latin America:





Stats are similar in the Middle East and North Africa. Correlation is not causation, but it's impossible not to notice that the near-global collapse ("near," because it doesn't affect sub-Saharan Africa) came shortly after the smartphone debuted in 2007. If there is a connection, what do you think it is?]
boognish_bear
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whiterock
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Redbrickbear said:

[It's not just Western civilization under threat. A few months ago, the WSJ reported on the "demographic winter" overtaking the world. More:
Quote:

Donald Trump, this year's presumptive Republican presidential nominee, has called collapsing fertility a bigger threat to Western civilization than Russia. A year ago Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida declared that the collapse of the country's birthrate left it "standing on the verge of whether we can continue to function as a society." Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni has prioritized raising the country's "demographic GDP."

Governments have rolled out programs to stop the decline-but so far they've barely made a dent.
More:

Quote:

Fernndez-Villaverde estimates global fertility fell to between 2.1 and 2.2 last year, which he said would be below global replacement for the first time in human history. Dean Spears, a population economist at the University of Texas at Austin, said while the data isn't good enough to know precisely when or if fertility has fallen below replacement, "we have enough evidence to be quite confident about…the crossing point not being far off."

In 2017 the U.N. projected world population, then 7.6 billion, would keep climbing to 11.2 billion in 2100. By 2022 it had lowered and brought forward the peak to 10.4 billion in the 2080s. That, too, is likely out of date. The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington now thinks it will peak around 9.5 billion in 2061 then start declining.

It's not a matter of not having enough money. Some rich countries, like Japan, make generous financial provision for child-raising. It's not working:

Quote:

Inoguchi, now a member of parliament's upper house, said the constraint on would-be parents is no longer money, but time. She has pressed the government and businesses to adopt a four-day workweek. She said, "If you're a government official or manager of a big corporation, you should not worry over questions of salary now, but that in 20 years time you will have no customers, no clients, no applicants to the Self-Defense Forces."

So what? you might say. There are too many people on the planet anyway. That's incredibly short-sighted. Leaving aside the spiritual and moral effects, consider that a shrinking world will be a poorer world. The elderly are especially going to suffer, as there won't be enough younger people around to care for them, or to subsidize their care. The young will not be willing to be taxed into oblivion to pay pensions and Medicare. Think about that before you embrace euthanasia. Old people are going to be compelled to commit suicide to stop being a burden on a shrinking and ever-more impoverished society a society that, having abandoned Christianity, has no sense of life's sanctity.]
the situation you highlighted cuts thru so many issues of the day.

Climate: If human-generated emission of carbon is causing global warming, then won't population decline make that a self-correcting problem?

War: if one is facing demographic decline, then one should perhaps make war to seize what one wants while one still can (Russia attacking Ukraine, China potentially taking back Taiwan). With new territory comes new resources, to include PEOPLE. It's the oldest business model in history - grow your economy by taking someone else's.

Infrastructure: Roads, bridges, dams, sewer systems, etc......all require maintenance to continue to function, and eventually replacement. How does a nation of 100m people maintain infrastructure built to handle 200m people. Look at places like Cahokia, Angkorwat, Chichenitza, Deringkuyu, Great Zimbabwe, Abu Simel, Petra, etc...... It's not hard to imagine what happened. We are living our own version of it right now. We're just not at the end of the cycle yet.

But, somehow, humans survive.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Trump and I have done our share. How many men are so limp wristed and concave chested they have only thrown, provided for and raised 2 or less children? 3 kids and 7 gks here.


Whiterock,

"Look at places like Cahokia, Angkorwat, Chichenitza, Deringkuyu, Great Zimbabwe, Abu Simel, Petra, etc...... It's not hard to imagine what happened."

I know a little about some of these but have been to Angkor Wat several times. Siem Reap is one of my fav places in the world. Scientist and historians have studied for lifetimes and claim no one knows what happened to the thriving temple/city.\,civilization. Maybe mosquitos, maybe droughts and floods, maybe friction between Buddhism and creeping swell of Hinduism, maybe a swelling of population which ironically led to social collapse, maybe political struggle between two kingdoms, maybe inbreeding that occured in the Khemer Empire.

Anyway, I know its off topic but can you tell me what really happened? I plan on going back to Phnom Penh soon and could probably enlighten lots of Cambodians. They are still wondering. Help me out.
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
whiterock
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Trump and I have done our share. How many men are so limp wristed and concave chested they have only thrown, provided for and raised 2 or less children? 3 kids and 7 gks here.


Whiterock,

"Look at places like Cahokia, Angkorwat, Chichenitza, Deringkuyu, Great Zimbabwe, Abu Simel, Petra, etc...... It's not hard to imagine what happened."

I know a little about some of these but have been to Angkor Wat several times. Siem Reap is one of my fav places in the world. Scientist and historians have studied for lifetimes and claim no one knows what happened to the thriving temple/city.\,civilization. Maybe mosquitos, maybe droughts and floods, maybe friction between Buddhism and creeping swell of Hinduism, maybe a swelling of population which ironically led to social collapse, maybe political struggle between two kingdoms, maybe inbreeding that occured in the Khemer Empire.

Anyway, I know its off topic but can you tell me what really happened? I plan on going back to Phnom Penh soon and could probably enlighten lots of Cambodians. They are still wondering. Help me out.
I don't think the historians have thought hard enough about those questions. Sure, cataclysms happen. Plenty of evidence of events like that - Pompei and Santorini come immediately to mind (although Santorini was a true existential civilizational event where Pompey was more of a local event). Sure war and disease have felled civilizations, although not usually in the cataclysmic sense. Europe did survive fairly thorough insult from the Mongols and the Black Death without much but graveyards for ruins. Seems to me that scholars have not looked more thoughtfully at the modern age for (less sexy) lessons. Cataclysm is not necessary for a civilization to fail. It is incredibly well documented what happens when a civilization grows and becomes wealthy & powerful = economic specialization and demographic decline. Specialized systems are more vulnerable; and demographic decline drains the bucket of a society's most valuable resource.

What does America look like in 20yrs if we stop immigration and continue a sub-replacement birth rate?
Easy. See Japan 2000-today. Society maintains itself with productivity gains. Existing infrastructure can be maintained, but over time the social programs continue to grow and crowd out budgets for improvements in infrastructure. If nothing changes demographically in a century, the tax base starts to decline to the point that it is no longer possible to even maintain truncated infrastructure. We can see this in small towns all across America right now. without federal assistance for infrastructure, many would deteriorate rapidly. And what happens when the canals no longer flow water, the roads are not much better (or even worse) than bare ground, the sewer pipes start to clog up from lack of flow.....when it's no longer economical to repair the electrical grid in its entire footprint.... Initially, people start to leave the cities because the taxes are too onerous. But eventually, they leave because there isn't a good reason to stay. A campfire in the bush with family made more sense than "civilization."

War, famine, drought, earthquake, pandemic, etc.....for sure can hasten the end of civilizations, but they are not always the root cause. Civilizations can fail on their own for factors we can see at play right now in our own neighborhoods.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Thank you for the thought provoking answer sir. Damn lazy historians if you ask me. I will straighten them out next summer. I have always thought it was a combination of 2 or 3 things happening at the same time becoming overwhelming. I think scientists and historians come up with new theories to give them excuses to publish.
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Trump and I have done our share. How many men are so limp wristed and concave chested they have only thrown, provided for and raised 2 or less children? 3 kids and 7 gks here.


Whiterock,

"Look at places like Cahokia, Angkorwat, Chichenitza, Deringkuyu, Great Zimbabwe, Abu Simel, Petra, etc...... It's not hard to imagine what happened."

I know a little about some of these but have been to Angkor Wat several times. Siem Reap is one of my fav places in the world. Scientist and historians have studied for lifetimes and claim no one knows what happened to the thriving temple/city.\,civilization. Maybe mosquitos, maybe droughts and floods, maybe friction between Buddhism and creeping swell of Hinduism, maybe a swelling of population which ironically led to social collapse, maybe political struggle between two kingdoms, maybe inbreeding that occured in the Khemer Empire.

Anyway, I know its off topic but can you tell me what really happened? I plan on going back to Phnom Penh soon and could probably enlighten lots of Cambodians. They are still wondering. Help me out.
I don't think the historians have thought hard enough about those questions. Sure, cataclysms happen. Plenty of evidence of events like that - Pompei and Santorini come immediately to mind (although Santorini was a true existential civilizational event where Pompey was more of a local event). Sure war and disease have felled civilizations, although not usually in the cataclysmic sense. Europe did survive fairly thorough insult from the Mongols and the Black Death without much but graveyards for ruins. Seems to me that scholars have not looked more thoughtfully at the modern age for (less sexy) lessons. Cataclysm is not necessary for a civilization to fail. It is incredibly well documented what happens when a civilization grows and becomes wealthy & powerful = economic specialization and demographic decline. Specialized systems are more vulnerable; and demographic decline drains the bucket of a society's most valuable resource.

What does America look like in 20yrs if we stop immigration and continue a sub-replacement birth rate?
Easy. See Japan 2000-today. Society maintains itself with productivity gains. Existing infrastructure can be maintained, but over time the social programs continue to grow and crowd out budgets for improvements in infrastructure. If nothing changes demographically in a century, the tax base starts to decline to the point that it is no longer possible to even maintain truncated infrastructure. We can see this in small towns all across America right now. without federal assistance for infrastructure, many would deteriorate rapidly. And what happens when the canals no longer flow water, the roads are not much better (or even worse) than bare ground, the sewer pipes start to clog up from lack of flow.....when it's no longer economical to repair the electrical grid in its entire footprint.... Initially, people start to leave the cities because the taxes are too onerous. But eventually, they leave because there isn't a good reason to stay. A campfire in the bush with family made more sense than "civilization."

War, famine, drought, earthquake, pandemic, etc.....for sure can hasten the end of civilizations, but they are not always the root cause. Civilizations can fail on their own for factors we can see at play right now in our own neighborhoods.
And on our own message board.

"Be careful of the myths you ride up on because at a certain point they will take you down." (Richard Wolff)
Redbrickbear
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Realitybites
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Quote:

What does America look like in 20yrs if we stop immigration and continue a sub-replacement birth rate


Mass immigration is not a solution for a sub-replacement birth rate, and what you see occuring in America, the UK, and western Europe is proof of that. People are not widgets, and an attempt to use them as widgets will destroy a civilization as surely as a sub-replacement birth rate.

The only correct solution is to eliminate feminism and dismantle the matriarchy, the two social driving forces that led to a sub-replacement birth rate. Every society that suffers from these two social ills suffers from a sub-replacement birth rate.

Set aside the gays, trannies, and childless cat ladies for a moment. Even every "normal" American family you see with a husband, wife, and 2 kids on a Sunday morning is contributing to the math problem.

Score more than 2.1 and you win. Score less, and you lose.

whiterock
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Realitybites said:

Quote:

What does America look like in 20yrs if we stop immigration and continue a sub-replacement birth rate


Mass immigration is not a solution for a sub-replacement birth rate, and what you see occuring in America, the UK, and western Europe is proof of that. People are not widgets, and an attempt to use them as widgets will destroy a civilization as surely as a sub-replacement birth rate.

The only correct solution is to eliminate feminism and dismantle the matriarchy, the two social driving forces that led to a sub-replacement birth rate. Every society that suffers from these two social ills suffers from a sub-replacement birth rate.

Set aside the gays, trannies, and childless cat ladies for a moment. Even every "normal" American family you see with a husband, wife, and 2 kids on a Sunday morning is contributing to the math problem.

Score more than 2.1 and you win. Score less, and you lose.


sorta. Properly done, immigration can make a big positive impact, several 10ths of a percentage point. But properly done means "at modest levels," not open borders to all comers.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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I scored three but it looks like I may be finished. You younger guys need to step it up. Get off the computer and get to work.
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
BearFan33
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I think with enough incentives the USA could increase the birthrate without needing immigration. I'm thinking more tax breaks, childcare services, maternity and paternity leave. Give employers incentives as well to make workplaces more family friendly.
Assassin
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whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

Quote:

What does America look like in 20yrs if we stop immigration and continue a sub-replacement birth rate


Mass immigration is not a solution for a sub-replacement birth rate, and what you see occuring in America, the UK, and western Europe is proof of that. People are not widgets, and an attempt to use them as widgets will destroy a civilization as surely as a sub-replacement birth rate.

The only correct solution is to eliminate feminism and dismantle the matriarchy, the two social driving forces that led to a sub-replacement birth rate. Every society that suffers from these two social ills suffers from a sub-replacement birth rate.

Set aside the gays, trannies, and childless cat ladies for a moment. Even every "normal" American family you see with a husband, wife, and 2 kids on a Sunday morning is contributing to the math problem.

Score more than 2.1 and you win. Score less, and you lose.


sorta. Properly done, immigration can make a big positive impact, several 10ths of a percentage point. But properly done means "at modest levels," not open borders to all comers.
aka 'Legal Immigration'.
Facebook Groups at; Memories of... Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Memories From a Texas Window and Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
Assassin
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

I scored three but it looks like I may be finished. You younger guys need to step it up. Get off the computer and get to work.
Unfortunately the father has no say on if his child should be born. That is one of the silliest things this country has ever done and may be an essential part of the demise of the USA...
Facebook Groups at; Memories of... Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Memories From a Texas Window and Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Of course they do. Be careful about where you plant your seed. Throw down with floozies and you may not have a say. Did you have a problem?
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Realitybites
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BearFan33 said:

I think with enough incentives the USA could increase the birthrate without needing immigration. I'm thinking more tax breaks, childcare services, maternity and paternity leave. Give employers incentives as well to make workplaces more family friendly.
Financial incentives can motivate human behavior, but only to a point.

Ask yourself, what would the financial incentive be for (most) of you to say you were Muslim and start attending a Mosque on Friday?

It's the same way with the feminist matriarchy. Once you spend indoctrinating a society's future women into "grrrrl power" you've doomed yourself before they finish jr. high and no amount of financial incentivization is going to get them to abandon their fundamental belief in feminism and egalitarianism.

You have to restructure society in such a way that it is normative for the women not to enter the workplace, but rather to stay at home and have more than two children.

Call it whatever names you want to call it, but math is undefeated.

The current fight over sports is trannies playing on girls' teams but I remember that not so long ago the fight was that Title IX was going to result in many mens' athletic programs shutting down, reducing scholarship opportunities for men. "Back in 2002, George Will called Title IX a "policy train wreck" because of how it has negatively impacted male sports. "Colleges have killed more than 400 men's athletic teams in order to produce precise proportionality between men's and women's enrollments and men's and women's rates of participation in athletics," wrote Will." (Link)

There is a great deal that has to be undone if the west is going to survive.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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I always thought the "grrrrl power" movement was a way to teach our daughters that the were, in fact, equal to men. Girls didnt have to stay home and learn to pick up after others . They could do well in school and have choices. I always thought females had the better lot in life. They could choose to have a career, or get married and share the workload with a husband, if they could just stay home, run the house and take care of babies.

BTW, 3 kids, 7 gks. 2.3 ave. I still beat the 2.1 needed for growth


I think the alternative is to teach your daughter they arent worth as much 0r equal to your sons and to be subservient to men.

What did you teach yours?
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Realitybites
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

I always thought the "grrrrl power" movement was a way to teach our daughters that the were, in fact, equal to men. Girls didnt have to stay home and learn to pick up after others . They could do well in school and have choices.
The problem for society is that when too many of them exercise a choice that takes them into higher education and the workforce, that society goes extinct. Like I said, the math is undefeated and wins every battle with feelings. Women are equal in worth to men, but we are in fact different, and created for different roles in society. Men actually don't get pregnant and have babies.
Quote:

BTW, 3 kids, 7 gks. 2.3 ve. I still beat the 2.1 needed for growth
Good, but this has to do with what is normative at a government and population level, not an individual level.

That's why the map shows that African and Muslim societies are propagating themselves, places like Peru, Paraguay, and India are in a goal line stand situation, and everyone else is getting blown out 42-7.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Ok. i will dust off my good clothes and get to work. Really preaching to the choir. I know that some reg posters here have not broken the 2.1 baseline. Whats your score?
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Redbrickbear
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

I always thought the "grrrrl power" movement was a way to teach our daughters that the were, in fact, equal to men. Girls didnt have to stay home and learn to pick up after others . They could do well in school and have choices. I always thought females had the better lot in life. They could choose to have a career, or get married and share the workload with a husband, if they could just stay home, run the house and take care of babies.

BTW, 3 kids, 7 gks. 2.3 ave. I still beat the 2.1 needed for growth


I think the alternative is to teach your daughter they arent worth as much 0r equal to your sons and to be subservient to men.

What did you teach yours?

Then it failed from the get go because it was based on utopian ideals.

Men and Women of course are not equal...even if we are just talking about physical strength and propensity for violence

[The only way to make men and women "equal" is to strip them of the unique qualities that make them men and women]

And good for you for being the 2.1 need for sustainability.

The point is that half the nations are earth are no longer beating or hitting that number and the rest are soon to follow.

And no one has found an answer to the problem....some still deny its even happening
Redbrickbear
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Realitybites said:

Quote:

What does America look like in 20yrs if we stop immigration and continue a sub-replacement birth rate


Mass immigration is not a solution for a sub-replacement birth rate, and what you see occuring in America, the UK, and western Europe is proof of that. People are not widgets, and an attempt to use them as widgets will destroy a civilization as surely as a sub-replacement birth rate.


Score more than 2.1 and you win. Score less, and you lose.



Yea

As was pointed out on a twitter thread about global population.

Even if you embrace mass immigration....the rest of the world is collapsing in birth rate as well...you only have about 50 years of population growth in the rest of the world (maybe less).

After that you will have to start getting immigrants from Mars or from outer space because there just wont be any more available on Earth anyway.

Mass immigration is just not a long term solution to the problem.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Redbrickbear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

I always thought the "grrrrl power" movement was a way to teach our daughters that the were, in fact, equal to men. Girls didnt have to stay home and learn to pick up after others . They could do well in school and have choices. I always thought females had the better lot in life. They could choose to have a career, or get married and share the workload with a husband, if they could just stay home, run the house and take care of babies.

BTW, 3 kids, 7 gks. 2.3 ave. I still beat the 2.1 needed for growth


I think the alternative is to teach your daughter they arent worth as much 0r equal to your sons and to be subservient to men.

What did you teach yours?

Then it failed from the get go because it was based on utopian ideals.

Men and Women of course are not equal...even if we are just talking about physical strength and propensity for violence

[The only way to make men and women "equal" is to strip them of the unique qualities that make them men and women]

And good for you for being the 2.1 need for sustainability.

The point is that half the nations are earth are no longer beating or hitting that number and the rest are soon to follow.

And no one has found an answer to the problem....some still deny its even happening
Sorry for not being clear. Of course men and women are not the same. But i raised my daughter to believe she had the equal opportunity to make choices. She didnt have to be a homemaker or a housekeeper. but could be an doctor or a lawyer if she chose to be. I am proud of her. She left home at 18, worked her way through college and is now an admin nurse in on of the bigger hospitals in Austin. Married to the same guy for over 25 years and two healthy strong children. She has done well despite growing up with her single father in a single parent home.

World population is still climbing. It has doubled in my lifetime. Growth per year varies but it has increased in each of the last two years. Nations come and go in the course of history. I have done my share. Have you?
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Redbrickbear
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Redbrickbear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

I always thought the "grrrrl power" movement was a way to teach our daughters that the were, in fact, equal to men. Girls didnt have to stay home and learn to pick up after others . They could do well in school and have choices. I always thought females had the better lot in life. They could choose to have a career, or get married and share the workload with a husband, if they could just stay home, run the house and take care of babies.

BTW, 3 kids, 7 gks. 2.3 ave. I still beat the 2.1 needed for growth


I think the alternative is to teach your daughter they arent worth as much 0r equal to your sons and to be subservient to men.

What did you teach yours?

Then it failed from the get go because it was based on utopian ideals.

Men and Women of course are not equal...even if we are just talking about physical strength and propensity for violence

[The only way to make men and women "equal" is to strip them of the unique qualities that make them men and women]

And good for you for being the 2.1 need for sustainability.

The point is that half the nations are earth are no longer beating or hitting that number and the rest are soon to follow.

And no one has found an answer to the problem....some still deny its even happening
Sorry for not being clear. Of course men and women are not the same. But i raised my daughter to believe she had the equal opportunity to make choices. She didnt have to be a homemaker or a housekeeper. but could be an doctor or a lawyer if she chose to be.

Well interesting enough....no matter if women chose to be voluntary corporate workers or home makers....fertility keeps crashing

So it does not really matter.

Modern Western and East Asian nations with lots of opportunity for women to spend decades in formal education and working for corporations are seeing their fertility collapse.

And even developing countries that don't provided the same career/education centric approach for women are seeing their fertility crater.

Its wild to watch

No one seems able to escape the collapse
BearFan33
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Redbrickbear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Redbrickbear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

I always thought the "grrrrl power" movement was a way to teach our daughters that the were, in fact, equal to men. Girls didnt have to stay home and learn to pick up after others . They could do well in school and have choices. I always thought females had the better lot in life. They could choose to have a career, or get married and share the workload with a husband, if they could just stay home, run the house and take care of babies.

BTW, 3 kids, 7 gks. 2.3 ave. I still beat the 2.1 needed for growth


I think the alternative is to teach your daughter they arent worth as much 0r equal to your sons and to be subservient to men.

What did you teach yours?

Then it failed from the get go because it was based on utopian ideals.

Men and Women of course are not equal...even if we are just talking about physical strength and propensity for violence

[The only way to make men and women "equal" is to strip them of the unique qualities that make them men and women]

And good for you for being the 2.1 need for sustainability.

The point is that half the nations are earth are no longer beating or hitting that number and the rest are soon to follow.

And no one has found an answer to the problem....some still deny its even happening
Sorry for not being clear. Of course men and women are not the same. But i raised my daughter to believe she had the equal opportunity to make choices. She didnt have to be a homemaker or a housekeeper. but could be an doctor or a lawyer if she chose to be.

Well interesting enough....no matter if women chose to be voluntary corporate workers or home makers....fertility keeps crashing

So it does not really matter.

Modern Western and East Asian nations with lots of opportunity for women to spend decades in formal education and working for corporations are seeing their fertility collapse.

And even developing countries that don't provided the same career/education centric approach for women are seeing their fertility crater.

Its wild to watch

No one seems able to escape the collapse

blame it on the plastics

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/chemicals-in-plastic-electronics-are-lowering-fertility-in-men-and-women

https://www.salon.com/2021/04/04/plastic-pollution-infertility-extinction/

https://www.earthday.org/plastics-the-kingpin-of-the-fertility-crisis/
BearFan33
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Ok. i will dust off my good clothes and get to work. Really preaching to the choir. I know that some reg posters here have not broken the 2.1 baseline. Whats your score?
I commend you on doing your part.

I added 2 (that I know of) to the population. With enough incentives it could have been more. I don't need to tell you that having and raising children properly is a sacrifice. Of course kids are a source of joy and the sacrifice becomes a labor of love.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Thank you for the kind words.
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
nein51
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BearFan33 said:

I think with enough incentives the USA could increase the birthrate without needing immigration. I'm thinking more tax breaks, childcare services, maternity and paternity leave. Give employers incentives as well to make workplaces more family friendly.

You would think that except loads of places have tried and it hasn't worked.

One could make the argument that same sex relationships are a large factor as it turns out two dudes can't produce a kid but like many complex problems this one has a lot of complex drivers.

You have a rise in same sex relationships (which en masse would inevitably result in the end of humanity as no reproduction can occur), the Industrial Revolution and subsequent move off the farm, the rise of feminism, the adoption of contraception, the dual income family, the rising cost of everything, the relatively new desire just not to have children and on and on and on.

The number of mother, father and 2 kid families is unlikely to change much so cultures that reproduce at higher rates (say Mormons or traditional Jews, Sub Saharan Africans) may, at some point, sort of take over the world by default.
Redbrickbear
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nein51 said:

BearFan33 said:

I think with enough incentives the USA could increase the birthrate without needing immigration. I'm thinking more tax breaks, childcare services, maternity and paternity leave. Give employers incentives as well to make workplaces more family friendly.

You would think that except loads of places have tried and it hasn't worked.


The number of mother, father and 2 kid families is unlikely to change much so cultures that reproduce at higher rates (say Mormons or traditional Jews, Sub Saharan Africans) may, at some point, sort of take over the world by default.

Fertility rates are even crashing among Sub-Saharan Africans and Mormons.

Both have seen serious declines in their respective fertility rates since the 1980s

[When compared with other continents, Africa's fertility rates of 4.5 children per woman in 2017 seem high. Indeed, it's the highest in the world. But that figure is low compared with Africa's birthrates of previous decades. It stood at an average of 6.6 children per woman in 1980. ]


https://www.afd.fr/en/actualites/dramatic-drop-fertility-across-africa


[In 2016, the median number of children Mormons had was 2.42, which is less than in the early 1980s]

[According to a report by the Utah Department of Health, the total fertility rate among Utah women has been steadily decreasing, dropping from 3.1 births per woman in 2010 to 2.3 births per woman in 2020. This decline is indicative of a broader shift in family size and reproductive behavior within the Mormon community.]

https://medium.com/@ddanon_37094/mormon-birth-rate-in-utah-f037466efc72#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20report%20by,behavior%20within%20the%20Mormon%20community.
Assassin
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

I always thought the "grrrrl power" movement was a way to teach our daughters that the were, in fact, equal to men. Girls didnt have to stay home and learn to pick up after others . They could do well in school and have choices. I always thought females had the better lot in life. They could choose to have a career, or get married and share the workload with a husband, if they could just stay home, run the house and take care of babies.

BTW, 3 kids, 7 gks. 2.3 ave. I still beat the 2.1 needed for growth


I think the alternative is to teach your daughter they arent worth as much 0r equal to your sons and to be subservient to men.

What did you teach yours?
Had two sons, both have died. One I gave up for adoption, just as I was adopted, when I was 17. The mother married a Navy guy and they raised him as their own. I did keep up with her, unfortunately he passed away in his 40s. I think you knew about that, we've talked about it many years ago. The other, with my fiance in 1990. Stillborn. Never got to teach either of them.
Facebook Groups at; Memories of... Dallas, Texas, Football in Texas, Texas Music, Memories From a Texas Window and Dallas History Guild. Come visit!
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