Wowser, how did you conflate "right wing" into extreme emphasis on race. They have the least emphasis on race or cultural identity politics. Whereas the left and people who listen to The View basically have their entire identity involved around their race or what culture of people they belong to.Sam Lowry said:They hated each other because the Nazis were nationalists and the communists were internationalists. They were both "leftist" in the sense that they were anti-liberal and both were inspired by Marx. But the Nazis were also "right-wing" in their extreme emphasis on race and nationality, among other things.Johnny Bear said:
OP is spot on. The popularly taught notion that if you go as far to the right as possible on the political spectrum you end up with fascism is completely false. What you actually end up with is a staunch libertarian. Fascism is just another brand or form of leftist totalitarianism and there was good reason the formal name of Hitler's party was the National SOCIALIST Party. And the Nazis didn't hate the Communists (and vice versa) because they were on opposite ends of the political spectrum - they hated them because they were the major rivals for power back in the day. Nazis and true conservatives have or had virtually nothing in common other than perhaps a strong love of country.
Terms like "right" and "left" have different meanings in different contexts. That should not obscure the many commonalities between fascists and the present-day American right.
understanding socialism, communism, fascism, etc
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Last: 1 day ago by historian
historian said:Redbrickbear said:historian said:Sam Lowry said:They hated each other because the Nazis were nationalists and the communists were internationalists. They were both "leftist" in the sense that they were anti-liberal and both were inspired by Marx. But the Nazis were also "right-wing" in their extreme emphasis on race and nationality, among other things.Johnny Bear said:
OP is spot on. The popularly taught notion that if you go as far to the right as possible on the political spectrum you end up with fascism is completely false. What you actually end up with is a staunch libertarian. Fascism is just another brand or form of leftist totalitarianism and there was good reason the formal name of Hitler's party was the National SOCIALIST Party. And the Nazis didn't hate the Communists (and vice versa) because they were on opposite ends of the political spectrum - they hated them because they were the major rivals for power back in the day. Nazis and true conservatives have or had virtually nothing in common other than perhaps a strong love of country.
Terms like "right" and "left" have different meanings in different contexts. That should not obscure the many commonalities between fascists and the present-day American right.
America's founding principles including equality. It's no accident that Abraham Lincoln, the Great Emancipator who freed the slaves,
Lincoln was plenty racist
And he only freed the slaves as a military necessity to crush the Southern States
He was not some kind of anti-racist social justice activists
He wanted the Black population expelled out of the USA
Not true. Lincoln was far more advanced on such issues for the time and he was vehemently anti slavery years before he was elected president. Freeing the slaves satisfied a moral imperative above all else, although the timing was because of the war..
No
He apparently was in gloomy about issuing the emancipation proclamation….but felt it was necessary as a military matter
[Eric Foner, one of the nation's preeminent historians on Lincoln and the Civil War.
"He shared some of the prejudices of his time. Was Lincoln an anti-racist? No not really. Was he an egalitarian in the modern sense? No. Race was not a major concern of Lincoln. He didn't think about race about very much….
Lincoln used the N-word and told racist jokes. He once said that Black people were inferior to Whites and he liked minstrel shows. He proposed ending slavery by shipping willing Black people back to Africa.
Lincoln also once floated an offer to the Confederates that would allow them to keep slaves until 1900 if they surrendered, according to a PBS film called "The Abolitionists." And at one White House meeting with Black ministers, Lincoln virtually blamed slaves for starting the Civil War.
If some of Lincoln's public utterances about Blacks were retweeted today, he would have been canceled on social media and likely run out of office.]
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/14/us/abraham-lincoln-racism-blake
Eric Foner is a prominent historian but he's also a Leftist ideologue. I don't agree with all of his interpretations of history.
I don't think Lincoln was much of anything by modern standards. When he was younger, he believed blacks should be evacuated to Africa. This was common for people in the antebellum era who wanted slavery to end. They did not see how whites and blacks could live together in harmony after centuries of slavery. They didn't give enough thought to the practical aspects of the idea. It was serious, though, the American Colonization Society was real and had significant support and led to the establishment of Liberia, the only country with a capital named for an American president (Monrovia).
To modern Americans that would be racist but that's because we have trouble looking at their world from their perspective. Opposition to slavery was a minority view in America, even in the north. Racism was widespread, although not universal. So to call Lincoln racist is misguided. He was quite advanced for his day and his views improved over time.
The mainstream media, like Hollywood, has a poor record with history and they tend to look at it from a Marxist perspective. Unfortunately, like other Leftists, many historians make similar mistakes. Also, modern sensibilities often take things to ridiculous extremes. Using the N word does not automatically indicate racism although many people define "racism" so broadly that far lesser things are included. These differences are as much an indictment of our modern culture as they are of America 170 years when slavery was very real.
I don't think Lincoln was much of anything by modern standards. When he was younger, he believed blacks should be evacuated to Africa. This was common for people in the antebellum era who wanted slavery to end. They did not see how whites and blacks could live together in harmony after centuries of slavery. They didn't give enough thought to the practical aspects of the idea. It was serious, though, the American Colonization Society was real and had significant support and led to the establishment of Liberia, the only country with a capital named for an American president (Monrovia).
To modern Americans that would be racist but that's because we have trouble looking at their world from their perspective. Opposition to slavery was a minority view in America, even in the north. Racism was widespread, although not universal. So to call Lincoln racist is misguided. He was quite advanced for his day and his views improved over time.
The mainstream media, like Hollywood, has a poor record with history and they tend to look at it from a Marxist perspective. Unfortunately, like other Leftists, many historians make similar mistakes. Also, modern sensibilities often take things to ridiculous extremes. Using the N word does not automatically indicate racism although many people define "racism" so broadly that far lesser things are included. These differences are as much an indictment of our modern culture as they are of America 170 years when slavery was very real.
historian said:
Eric Foner is a prominent historian but he's also a Leftist ideologue. I don't agree with all of his interpretations of history.
I don't think Lincoln was much of anything by modern standards. When he was younger, he believed blacks should be evacuated to Africa. This was common for people in the antebellum era who wanted slavery to end. They did not see how whites and blacks could live together in harmony after centuries of slavery. They didn't give enough thought to the practical aspects of the idea. It was serious, though, the American Colonization Society was real and had significant support and led to the establishment of Liberia, the only country with a capital named for an American president (Monrovia).
To modern Americans that would be racist but that's because we have trouble looking at their world from their perspective. Opposition to slavery was a minority view in America, even in the north. Racism was widespread, although not universal. So to call Lincoln racist is misguided. He was quite advanced for his day and his views improved over time.
The mainstream media, like Hollywood, has a poor record with history and they tend to look at it from a Marxist perspective. Unfortunately, like other Leftists, many historians make similar mistakes.
Leftists and Marxists love Lincoln
Hell Marx himself loved Lincoln
[In 1864, Karl Marx and his International Working Men's Association (the "First International") sent an address to Abraham Lincoln, congratulating "the American people upon your re-election by a large majority." As historian Robin Blackburn writes, "The US ambassador in London conveyed a friendly but brief response from the president. However, the antecedents and implications of this little exchange are rarely considered." It was not the first time Marx and Lincoln had encountered each other. They never met personally, but their affinities led to what Blackburn calls an "unfinished revolution"…
Lincoln and Marx became mutual admirers in the early 1860s due to the latter's work as a foreign correspondent for The New York Daily Tribune. From 1852 until the start of the Civil War, Marx, sometimes with Engels, wrote "over five hundred articles for the Tribune," Blackburn notes….Marx compared Southern planters to the European aristocracy]
Marxists like Lincoln and other similar historical figures because it's easy for them to interpret them and their actions in a Marxist way. But it's still a distortion. Marxists lie about everything because their entire world gies is based upon lies: lies about economics, politics, history, culture, & everything else. It's evil and insidious.
Sam Lowry said:I'm not arguing that Democrat policies are good for blacks, but very little of what you're ranting about has anything to do with actual racism. Talk about voter suppression by the GOP, and you'd be closer to the ballpark.historian said:Sam Lowry said:It's not 1856 any more. Racists tend Republican and anti-racists tend Democrat now. There are plenty of exceptions, but in general this is obvious.historian said:Sam Lowry said:They hated each other because the Nazis were nationalists and the communists were internationalists. They were both "leftist" in the sense that they were anti-liberal and both were inspired by Marx. But the Nazis were also "right-wing" in their extreme emphasis on race and nationality, among other things.Johnny Bear said:
OP is spot on. The popularly taught notion that if you go as far to the right as possible on the political spectrum you end up with fascism is completely false. What you actually end up with is a staunch libertarian. Fascism is just another brand or form of leftist totalitarianism and there was good reason the formal name of Hitler's party was the National SOCIALIST Party. And the Nazis didn't hate the Communists (and vice versa) because they were on opposite ends of the political spectrum - they hated them because they were the major rivals for power back in the day. Nazis and true conservatives have or had virtually nothing in common other than perhaps a strong love of country.
Terms like "right" and "left" have different meanings in different contexts. That should not obscure the many commonalities between fascists and the present-day American right.
Racism is not "right wing". That's a common myth by Dems to cover up the fact that they are the party of slavery, Jim Crow, & the KKK. They still are: to the extent the US still has institutional racism, it's most often found among Dems & Leftists in general.
Conservatism, properly defined, embraced America's founding principles including equality. It's no accident that Abraham Lincoln, the Great Emancipator who freed the slaves, was a Republican. The GOP was established in 1856 partly on the belief that slavery was evil and the determination to stop its growth and eventual disappearance in the US.
No, they don't. Like all of American history, the Dems are the party of modern racism although it often looks different than it did 100 years ago.
Democrats like to use misleading phrases like "anti racist" as a propaganda technique to fool people into thinking they actually care about minorities. The problem is it's based primarily on them labeling everyone they disagree with as "racist" without any evidence of actual racism and readily ignore genuine racism from their own side.
Historically, it's the Dems who had KKK members (or former) in office: FDR nominated an ex-Klansman to the Supreme Court, Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia was a former Klan leader, and the more notorious white supremacists opposing civil rights were Dems & Klansmen (such as Bull Connor & George Wallace).
Today, Dems have little record in actually helping minorities or protecting their rights. In recent years, Dems have done more to harm blacks, for example, by going soft on criminals (even violent ones) ignoring the fact that their victims tend to be blacks & other minorities. Dems' radicalism in support of murdering babies and mutilating or poisoning children is an insult to the family values of Hispanics. Adding to the stupid insults, Dems prefer a genderless label, Latinx, which Hispanics hate. The other major group that Dems have alienated are Asian-Americans who Dems support discriminating against in college admissions & hiring. Both are illegal, unconstitutional, & blatantly racist. DEI is another example: the promote promoting obviously incompetent blacks to important positions (Kamala & KJP are obvious examples) who then fail miserably. This makes blacks in general look bad in the eyes of people who don't know better. Republicans, on the other hand, choose competent blacks (& other minorities) such as Clarence Thomas & Dr Ben Carson. These are some of the reasons why each group voted for Trump in record numbers. There are many other examples.
Dems brag about their civil rights record in recent years except it's all a bunch of lies, just like most of their rhetoric.
Would that be like the voter suppression laws in Georgia that resulted in vastly increased turnout in the first election after they went into effect?
Dude ... stop letting facts get in the way of disinformation.JXL said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not arguing that Democrat policies are good for blacks, but very little of what you're ranting about has anything to do with actual racism. Talk about voter suppression by the GOP, and you'd be closer to the ballpark.historian said:Sam Lowry said:It's not 1856 any more. Racists tend Republican and anti-racists tend Democrat now. There are plenty of exceptions, but in general this is obvious.historian said:Sam Lowry said:They hated each other because the Nazis were nationalists and the communists were internationalists. They were both "leftist" in the sense that they were anti-liberal and both were inspired by Marx. But the Nazis were also "right-wing" in their extreme emphasis on race and nationality, among other things.Johnny Bear said:
OP is spot on. The popularly taught notion that if you go as far to the right as possible on the political spectrum you end up with fascism is completely false. What you actually end up with is a staunch libertarian. Fascism is just another brand or form of leftist totalitarianism and there was good reason the formal name of Hitler's party was the National SOCIALIST Party. And the Nazis didn't hate the Communists (and vice versa) because they were on opposite ends of the political spectrum - they hated them because they were the major rivals for power back in the day. Nazis and true conservatives have or had virtually nothing in common other than perhaps a strong love of country.
Terms like "right" and "left" have different meanings in different contexts. That should not obscure the many commonalities between fascists and the present-day American right.
Racism is not "right wing". That's a common myth by Dems to cover up the fact that they are the party of slavery, Jim Crow, & the KKK. They still are: to the extent the US still has institutional racism, it's most often found among Dems & Leftists in general.
Conservatism, properly defined, embraced America's founding principles including equality. It's no accident that Abraham Lincoln, the Great Emancipator who freed the slaves, was a Republican. The GOP was established in 1856 partly on the belief that slavery was evil and the determination to stop its growth and eventual disappearance in the US.
No, they don't. Like all of American history, the Dems are the party of modern racism although it often looks different than it did 100 years ago.
Democrats like to use misleading phrases like "anti racist" as a propaganda technique to fool people into thinking they actually care about minorities. The problem is it's based primarily on them labeling everyone they disagree with as "racist" without any evidence of actual racism and readily ignore genuine racism from their own side.
Historically, it's the Dems who had KKK members (or former) in office: FDR nominated an ex-Klansman to the Supreme Court, Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia was a former Klan leader, and the more notorious white supremacists opposing civil rights were Dems & Klansmen (such as Bull Connor & George Wallace).
Today, Dems have little record in actually helping minorities or protecting their rights. In recent years, Dems have done more to harm blacks, for example, by going soft on criminals (even violent ones) ignoring the fact that their victims tend to be blacks & other minorities. Dems' radicalism in support of murdering babies and mutilating or poisoning children is an insult to the family values of Hispanics. Adding to the stupid insults, Dems prefer a genderless label, Latinx, which Hispanics hate. The other major group that Dems have alienated are Asian-Americans who Dems support discriminating against in college admissions & hiring. Both are illegal, unconstitutional, & blatantly racist. DEI is another example: the promote promoting obviously incompetent blacks to important positions (Kamala & KJP are obvious examples) who then fail miserably. This makes blacks in general look bad in the eyes of people who don't know better. Republicans, on the other hand, choose competent blacks (& other minorities) such as Clarence Thomas & Dr Ben Carson. These are some of the reasons why each group voted for Trump in record numbers. There are many other examples.
Dems brag about their civil rights record in recent years except it's all a bunch of lies, just like most of their rhetoric.
Would that be like the voter suppression laws in Georgia that resulted in vastly increased turnout in the first election after they went into effect?
Woah! Somebody got debunked!
Facts tend to do that!
historian said:
Marxists like Lincoln and other similar historical figures because it's easy for them to interpret them and their actions in a Marxist way. But it's still a distortion. Marxists lie about everything because their entire world gies is based upon lies: lies about economics, politics, history, culture, & everything else. It's evil and insidious.
100% agree with that
Lincoln was more of a American Nationalist than a proto-Marxist
Marx & Engels published the Communist Manifesto in 1848. They were contemporaries.
historian said:
Marx & Engels published the Communist Manifesto in 1848. They were contemporaries.
Washington Post trying to imply Lincoln shared some of Marx views
But seems a stretch
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/07/27/you-know-who-was-into-karl-marx-no-not-aoc-abraham-lincoln/
Lincoln was pro-business and pro-nationalism
"Lincoln had always been a national Whig. His policies were those in favor of a central banking system, which he championed during his first term in the Illinois legislature. The Bank of the United States which Andrew Jackson opposed was similar to our present day Federal Reserve System. Lincoln opposed resolutions in the Illinois legislature supporting President Andrew Jackson, who had vetoed the National Bank. Lincoln also favored high tariffs, a strongly centralized government and internal improvements. Lincoln himself had a direct personal reason to support such policies, since he derived a significant portion of his income from serving as attorney for the railroad interests."
More like the Florida law that the Republican governor and the party chairman admitted was designed to suppress votes.JXL said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not arguing that Democrat policies are good for blacks, but very little of what you're ranting about has anything to do with actual racism. Talk about voter suppression by the GOP, and you'd be closer to the ballpark.historian said:Sam Lowry said:It's not 1856 any more. Racists tend Republican and anti-racists tend Democrat now. There are plenty of exceptions, but in general this is obvious.historian said:Sam Lowry said:They hated each other because the Nazis were nationalists and the communists were internationalists. They were both "leftist" in the sense that they were anti-liberal and both were inspired by Marx. But the Nazis were also "right-wing" in their extreme emphasis on race and nationality, among other things.Johnny Bear said:
OP is spot on. The popularly taught notion that if you go as far to the right as possible on the political spectrum you end up with fascism is completely false. What you actually end up with is a staunch libertarian. Fascism is just another brand or form of leftist totalitarianism and there was good reason the formal name of Hitler's party was the National SOCIALIST Party. And the Nazis didn't hate the Communists (and vice versa) because they were on opposite ends of the political spectrum - they hated them because they were the major rivals for power back in the day. Nazis and true conservatives have or had virtually nothing in common other than perhaps a strong love of country.
Terms like "right" and "left" have different meanings in different contexts. That should not obscure the many commonalities between fascists and the present-day American right.
Racism is not "right wing". That's a common myth by Dems to cover up the fact that they are the party of slavery, Jim Crow, & the KKK. They still are: to the extent the US still has institutional racism, it's most often found among Dems & Leftists in general.
Conservatism, properly defined, embraced America's founding principles including equality. It's no accident that Abraham Lincoln, the Great Emancipator who freed the slaves, was a Republican. The GOP was established in 1856 partly on the belief that slavery was evil and the determination to stop its growth and eventual disappearance in the US.
No, they don't. Like all of American history, the Dems are the party of modern racism although it often looks different than it did 100 years ago.
Democrats like to use misleading phrases like "anti racist" as a propaganda technique to fool people into thinking they actually care about minorities. The problem is it's based primarily on them labeling everyone they disagree with as "racist" without any evidence of actual racism and readily ignore genuine racism from their own side.
Historically, it's the Dems who had KKK members (or former) in office: FDR nominated an ex-Klansman to the Supreme Court, Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia was a former Klan leader, and the more notorious white supremacists opposing civil rights were Dems & Klansmen (such as Bull Connor & George Wallace).
Today, Dems have little record in actually helping minorities or protecting their rights. In recent years, Dems have done more to harm blacks, for example, by going soft on criminals (even violent ones) ignoring the fact that their victims tend to be blacks & other minorities. Dems' radicalism in support of murdering babies and mutilating or poisoning children is an insult to the family values of Hispanics. Adding to the stupid insults, Dems prefer a genderless label, Latinx, which Hispanics hate. The other major group that Dems have alienated are Asian-Americans who Dems support discriminating against in college admissions & hiring. Both are illegal, unconstitutional, & blatantly racist. DEI is another example: the promote promoting obviously incompetent blacks to important positions (Kamala & KJP are obvious examples) who then fail miserably. This makes blacks in general look bad in the eyes of people who don't know better. Republicans, on the other hand, choose competent blacks (& other minorities) such as Clarence Thomas & Dr Ben Carson. These are some of the reasons why each group voted for Trump in record numbers. There are many other examples.
Dems brag about their civil rights record in recent years except it's all a bunch of lies, just like most of their rhetoric.
Would that be like the voter suppression laws in Georgia that resulted in vastly increased turnout in the first election after they went into effect?
Redbrickbear said:historian said:
Marx & Engels published the Communist Manifesto in 1848. They were contemporaries.
Washington Post trying to imply Lincoln shared some of Marx views
But seems a stretch
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/07/27/you-know-who-was-into-karl-marx-no-not-aoc-abraham-lincoln/
Lincoln was pro-business and pro-nationalism
"Lincoln had always been a national Whig. His policies were those in favor of a central banking system, which he championed during his first term in the Illinois legislature. The Bank of the United States which Andrew Jackson opposed was similar to our present day Federal Reserve System. Lincoln opposed resolutions in the Illinois legislature supporting President Andrew Jackson, who had vetoed the National Bank. Lincoln also favored high tariffs, a strongly centralized government and internal improvements. Lincoln himself had a direct personal reason to support such policies, since he derived a significant portion of his income from serving as attorney for the railroad interests."
It's not just a stretch but an absurdity. Their views on most subjects were probably pretty much opposite.
historian said:Redbrickbear said:historian said:
Marx & Engels published the Communist Manifesto in 1848. They were contemporaries.
Washington Post trying to imply Lincoln shared some of Marx views
But seems a stretch
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/07/27/you-know-who-was-into-karl-marx-no-not-aoc-abraham-lincoln/
Lincoln was pro-business and pro-nationalism
"Lincoln had always been a national Whig. His policies were those in favor of a central banking system, which he championed during his first term in the Illinois legislature. The Bank of the United States which Andrew Jackson opposed was similar to our present day Federal Reserve System. Lincoln opposed resolutions in the Illinois legislature supporting President Andrew Jackson, who had vetoed the National Bank. Lincoln also favored high tariffs, a strongly centralized government and internal improvements. Lincoln himself had a direct personal reason to support such policies, since he derived a significant portion of his income from serving as attorney for the railroad interests."
It's not just a stretch but an absurdity. Their views on most subjects were probably pretty much opposite.
Yep,
But does tell you a lot that Marxists see a hero in Lincoln
Only to the extent it is convenient for them. Marxists have always distorted history starting with Marx himself.
When I sat down a couple years ago and explained to @glennbeck how Communism and Fascism (20th c. programs) blend to give us the "Neo-Communism" of today.
— James Lindsay, anti-Communist (@ConceptualJames) July 9, 2024
Video clip courtesy of @Ne_pas_couvrir.pic.twitter.com/HHWlhYTusr
Racism simply changed its team name from Democrat to Republican.
Waco1947 ,la
Says the worst racist on this or any other message board.Waco1947 said:
Racism simply changed its team name from Democrat to Republican.
Completely wrong.Waco1947 said:
Racism simply changed its team name from Democrat to Republican.
Biden's Administration alone demonstrates that Democrats are every bit as racist as their past.
And it's still a fact that a higher percentage of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats.
Are you a Communist, a Fascist, or just a deluded fool Waco?
Another lie. That did not happen. The Dems are as racist as ever but they are a bit smarter about it, expressed through socialism instead of chattel slavery. Since socialism is slavery it's not enough of a difference. The results are still pretty bad for blacks & other minorities.
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
Porteroso said:
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
I didnt read your post, but have you told your boyfriend to get out of my daughter's locker room yet? Obama said.
Semantics means the meaning and interpretation of words. Semantics largely determine our reading comprehension, how we understand others, and even what decisions we make as a result of our interpretations.KaiBear said:Says the worst racist on this or any other message board.Waco1947 said:
Racism simply changed its team name from Democrat to Republican.
So what's your definition of racist?
Waco1947 ,la
Truth. I would say that Totalitarian is the culprit here. Communism, fascism, socialism can all lead to totalitarian regimes.Porteroso said:
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
Totalitarianism is extreme authoritarianism. There's no democracy, no opposition, no free speech you just do exactly what the authorities tell you to do, or else they'll break your legs.
So then, freedom is gone.
Fascism is totalitarianism applied to ultra conservative nationalism. Those in charge want to force the country to return to a time when men were men and the country belonged to "the right people". The elite in charge have a thing for dressing in military uniforms, and they encourage all good patriots to take out their frustrations on immigrants, minorities, liberals and communists with extreme prejudice. )Looking at you Trump)
Nazism is genocidally racist fascism. Nazis don't just blame minorities, liberals, etc.; they specifically set out to exterminate them all. The state become totalitarian as freedom is wiped out.
Communism embraces egalitarianism "we're all equal, so let's all work together for the common good", as Animal Farm says, "Some animals are more equal than others."
Communist revolutionaries t(Think Stalin) throughout the 20 century resorted to totalitarianism as a way to impose the communist ideal by force "Everyone must happily work for the common good … or else we'll break your legs or exterminate." Again, freedom is gone. For more, see the attempted take over of Ukraine.
"We must commit ourselves with all our vigor in all its dimensions: the struggle in the world against Communism and fascism (and totalitarianism); the struggle within our country against oppression and stagnation; within ourselves against pride and corruption nor can our engagement in one dimension exclude our responsibility for the other. If democracy cannot produce the large resolute breed of people capable of this climatic effort, it will founder. Out of the effort, out of the struggle alone, can come the high courage and faith that will preserve freedom." Arthur Schlesinger The Vital Center
Our freedom is at stake
Waco1947 ,la
Waco1947 ,la
Waco1947 said:Semantics means the meaning and interpretation of words. Semantics largely determine our reading comprehension, how we understand others, and even what decisions we make as a result of our interpretations.KaiBear said:Says the worst racist on this or any other message board.Waco1947 said:
Racism simply changed its team name from Democrat to Republican.
So what's your definition of racist?
An undereducated individual who continually focuses only on ONE ethnic group for all the evils in the world.
Often due to his massive feelings of inadequacy ; usually in regards to one's past and / or current circumstances.
It's not that hard, really.
We should be able to agree that three solid examples of Fascism would be WW2-era Italy, Germany and Japan. And so we can judge modern political movements by how much they act in the same way as those powers.
Starting wars, for example, something Trump never did but Biden, Obama, Bush and Clinton did.
Using mass media to support propaganda, again something common to Democrats over our lifetimes.
Using government offices to persecute political opponents, again as Biden and Obama were both notorious for doing.
Bottom line is that there is abundant evidence that Trump was and is no Fascist, but Biden, Obama and many on the Left have been very much in line with Fascist precedent.
People are figuring it out, more each day.
We should be able to agree that three solid examples of Fascism would be WW2-era Italy, Germany and Japan. And so we can judge modern political movements by how much they act in the same way as those powers.
Starting wars, for example, something Trump never did but Biden, Obama, Bush and Clinton did.
Using mass media to support propaganda, again something common to Democrats over our lifetimes.
Using government offices to persecute political opponents, again as Biden and Obama were both notorious for doing.
Bottom line is that there is abundant evidence that Trump was and is no Fascist, but Biden, Obama and many on the Left have been very much in line with Fascist precedent.
People are figuring it out, more each day.
Add to the list: intolerance & bigotry, antisemitism (not a feature of Italian fascism), state capitalism (economic fascism), censorship, etc. A lot of totalitarian tendencies too.
Married A Horn said:Porteroso said:
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
I didnt read your post, but have you told your boyfriend to get out of my daughter's locker room yet? Obama said.
I didn't read is a calling card of the zealot.
Porteroso said:Married A Horn said:Porteroso said:
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
I didnt read your post, but have you told your boyfriend to get out of my daughter's locker room yet? Obama said.
I didn't read is a calling card of the zealot.
Or someone who knows not to bother with you: 'Dont cast your pearls before swine.'
Porteroso said:
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
Fascism and communism are just two different manifestations of socialism = collectivism. collectivism is always done FOR some oppressed class.
Communism is socialism by class - to benefit the worker.
Fascism is socialism by race - to benefit the German/Italian people.
That difference also explains the national vs international dynamic mentioned by others.
The fascists did describe themselves as socialists, ya know…..
whiterock said:Porteroso said:
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
Fascism and communism are just two different manifestations of socialism = collectivism. collectivism is always done FOR some oppressed class.
Communism is socialism by class - to benefit the worker.
Fascism is socialism by race - to benefit the German/Italian people.
That difference also explains the national vs international dynamic mentioned by others.
The fascists did describe themselves as socialists, ya know…..
Fascism is not necessarily racist. It certainly was for Hitler but not for Mussolini. It was more about nationalism taken to insane extremes and concentrating power in a few hands. Of course, it was (and still is) a lot more than that. The basics are enough to understand what it looks like in generals terms and to understand how evil it is.
Fascism is definitely a variety of socialism, one that downplayed the idea of abolishing private party. That enabled them to gain support from lots of people of all classes and from corporations who saw opportunities to rig the system in their favor with the support of powerful politicians & bureaucrats. Sound familiar?
KaiBear said:Waco1947 said:Semantics means the meaning and interpretation of words. Semantics largely determine our reading comprehension, how we understand others, and even what decisions we make as a result of our interpretations.KaiBear said:Says the worst racist on this or any other message board.Waco1947 said:
Racism simply changed its team name from Democrat to Republican.
So what's your definition of racist?
An undereducated individual who continually focuses only on ONE ethnic group for all the evils in the world.
Often due to his massive feelings of inadequacy ; usually in regards to one's past and / or current circumstances.
If I am understanding you right, you think I am focusing on white folk as the source of all evil. If that correct?
In my opinion I believe that definition racist includes should include oppressive actions and discriminatory towards marginalized or oppressed people.
White folk are not marginalized. like say Hispanics or Blacks.
P.S. I do not consider whites marginalized unless you can show me otherwise. I am open to your thoughts
Waco1947 ,la
historian said:whiterock said:Porteroso said:
This thread is a sort of smorgasbord of what Republicans wished history said. True, a long, long time ago it was Republicans who were trying to end slavery, and Democrats who wanted to keep it going. That has little relation to today though, where even in our lifetimes we see the script being completely flipped on issues like women's right, US-Russia relations, etc.
To paint fascism, communism, socialism as completely left wing ideologies is to try to impose a snapshot of modern American politics onto the history of European politics, and that is just simply not accurate. Fascism in Italy was certainly right wing, for example. There is no doubt about it.
The core reason however, that neither American party has ever been described by anyone with a brain, up until Trump, as fascist, is our limited government and Constitution. Someone earlier correctly described fascism as more closely related to absolutist government than right left up down wing.
Personally, I don't think it is Trump's intention to say fascist things, but simply his total ignorance of the Cobstitution, which he has admitted several times, that caused him to say things veering not really into any sort of right wing rhetoric, but absolutist government rhetoric.
Him having unconstitutional power over the generals of the Armed Forces for example, or asking Pence to unconstitutionally throw out the vote of the people. These are absolutely fascist tendencies. The left does this too, so that is a valid argument, but if there are fascists amongst the leftist politicians, they certainly conceal it better than Trump.
To understand all these 3 ideologies as left wing would be a huge misunderstanding of history, and guess what? Something of course you zealots love.
Fascism and communism are just two different manifestations of socialism = collectivism. collectivism is always done FOR some oppressed class.
Communism is socialism by class - to benefit the worker.
Fascism is socialism by race - to benefit the German/Italian people.
That difference also explains the national vs international dynamic mentioned by others.
The fascists did describe themselves as socialists, ya know…..
Fascism is not necessarily racist. It certainly was for Hitler but not for Mussolini. It was more about nationalism taken to insane extremes and concentrating power in a few hands. Of course, it was (and still is) a lot more than that. The basics are enough to understand what it looks like in generals terms and to understand how evil it is.
Fascism is definitely a variety of socialism, one that downplayed the idea of abolishing private party. That enabled them to gain support from lots of people of all classes and from corporations who saw opportunities to rig the system in their favor with the support of powerful politicians & bureaucrats. Sound familiar?
Yep. American regressivism is close to fascism in both economics and racism.