Ben Shapiro does a nice job breaking it down on his show:

Ben Shapiro wrongly sees fascism as a movement of the right. It is not. It is a variation of socialism but with a capitalist veneer. There is no real freedom when the state controls.

The horseshoe analogy is flawed.

historian said:

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Ben Shapiro wrongly sees fascism as a movement of the right. It is not. It is a variation of socialism but with a capitalist veneer. There is no real freedom when the state controls.

The horseshoe analogy is flawed.

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That's part of how the various groups work. The words mean what they tell their mob they mean. The actual axes involved are not discussed.

Here is an excellent article that explains further. The D'Souza video is included:

Mamdani's rent freeze makes him a fascist

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2026/07/mamdani-s-rent-freeze-makes-him-a-fascist/

Here's the entry from the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics cited in the article:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100327202619/http:/www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

historian said:

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Here is an excellent article that explains further. The D'Souza video is included:

Mamdani's rent freeze makes him a fascist

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2026/07/mamdani-s-rent-freeze-makes-him-a-fascist/

Here's the entry from the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics cited in the article:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100327202619/http:/www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

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Exactly. Any educated person knows that the foundation of fascism is the maintenance of private property while that property is effectively controlled by the government.

Yep. It doesn't matter who owns the property. What matters is who controls it. It's not a truly free market system if the govt dictates what one can do with one's business. That's the opposite of laissez faire ("hands off") which is another way to describe socialism.

10 years ago, Venezuela provided a great example of the failures of socialism:

Socialism, in the End, Is Slavery

https://insidesources.com/socialism-in-the-end-is-slavery/

historian said:

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Ben Shapiro wrongly sees fascism as a movement of the right. It is not. It is a variation of socialism but with a capitalist veneer. There is no real freedom when the state controls.

The horseshoe analogy is flawed.

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Disagreeing with Ben Shapiro is antisemitic.

I hope you are being sarcastic since no one is perfect and everyone will be wrong on occasion, including Shapiro.

There are currently zero fully socialist countries in Europe. Modern European nations operate as capitalist mixed economies with free markets, though many feature strong "social democratic" welfare states that blend private enterprise with extensive state-funded services.Some of the most prominent examples of these social-democratic welfare states include:Nordic Countries: Nations like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland, which combine free markets with high taxes, strong labor protections, and robust universal healthcare and education.Western/Central Europe: Countries like Germany, France, and the Netherlands, which also maintain strong social safety nets integrated into a capitalist framework.

Each mixed economy is a basket case, illustrating the evils of socialism. The socialist parts scam off of the capitalist parts making it far more difficult for entrepreneurs to succeed and making everyone less free. The better examples of socialism, however, are the openly socialist countries with tyrannical government, state terrorism, no individual liberty, extreme corruption, and the impoverished population living without modern essentials.

Socialism is parasitical on top of everything else.

historian said:

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Ben Shapiro wrongly sees fascism as a movement of the right. It is not. It is a variation of socialism but with a capitalist veneer. There is no real freedom when the state controls.

The horseshoe analogy is flawed.

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No energy to listen again, but I do not believe that was his point. I think he was stating fascism was more left but tinted with nationalism or internationalism - but maybe labeled the "nationalism" portion more right wing as leftists tend to be internationalists per his thesis.

Regardless, fascism is another of leftist economics.

Waco1947 said:

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There are currently zero fully socialist countries in Europe. Modern European nations operate as capitalist mixed economies with free markets, though many feature strong "social democratic" welfare states that blend private enterprise with extensive state-funded services.Some of the most prominent examples of these social-democratic welfare states include:Nordic Countries: Nations like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland, which combine free markets with high taxes, strong labor protections, and robust universal healthcare and education.Western/Central Europe: Countries like Germany, France, and the Netherlands, which also maintain strong social safety nets integrated into a capitalist framework.

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Rich Commie Cosplays As Chinese Dictator Who Killed Tens Of Millions, Impoverished Hundreds Of Millions More

https://notthebee.com/article/rich-commie-cosplays-as-chinese-dictator-who-killed-tens-of-millions-impoverished-hundreds-of-millions-more

historian said:

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Rich Commie Cosplays As Chinese Dictator Who Killed Tens Of Millions, Impoverished Hundreds Of Millions More

https://notthebee.com/article/rich-commie-cosplays-as-chinese-dictator-who-killed-tens-of-millions-impoverished-hundreds-of-millions-more

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It is funny how the left pretends Mao & Stalin, etc., never harmed anyone and really try to play up the National Socialists as "right wing."

The Left likes to pretend that socialism is fair, beneficial, or can work. The opposite is true: socialism is completely unfair and evil, is totally harmful, and never works.

In the 20th century socialism was responsible for over 100 million deaths, the enslavement of billions, millions of people sent to concentration camps or gulags (or other labels such as re-education camps), and many other barbaric forms of tyranny.

It always fails because it cannot work. The ideas behind are divorced from reality and based on childish fantasies.

Anyone who advocates socialism is either evil or a "useful idiot" (Lenin's term) being manipulated by those who are evil.

An excellent article on the realities of socialism:

Every American Needs To Know That Socialism Is Slavery

https://thefederalist.com/2026/07/23/every-american-needs-to-know-that-socialism-is-slavery/

From the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics:

Fascism

https://web.archive.org/web/20100327202619/http:/www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

"As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer."

historian said:

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An excellent article on the realities of socialism:

Every American Needs To Know That Socialism Is Slavery

https://thefederalist.com/2026/07/23/every-american-needs-to-know-that-socialism-is-slavery/

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This guy is off the rails. Lots of assertion with no evidence

Actually, the basis premise of the title should be self evident and totally logical once one examines socialism honestly.

Every time socialism is attempted it involves the heavy hands of government. It can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom. Hence socialism is slavery.

historian said:

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Actually, the basis premise of the title should be self evident and totally logical once one examines socialism honestly.

Every time socialism is attempted it involves the heavy hands of government. It can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom. Hence socialism is slavery.

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Trump's rule can only happen with a lot of executive power, and every failure will result in corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is.
I believe the Trump administration is corrupt, and concentrating more authority in the executive branch only increases the potential for abuses of power rather than protecting the liberties of the American people.

Hasan Piker Declares Socialism the 'Real America First' Movement at El-Sayed Victory Party
Leftist streamer Hasan Piker told National Review that he thinks socialism is the "real America first" movement as he attended a primary victory party for Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed who has strictly denied any ties to socialism.
NR asked Piker on Wednesday if he is concerned that his negative comments about America will have an effect on far-left candidates and the socialist movement at large.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/hasan-piker-declares-socialism-the-real-america-first-movement-at-el-sayed-victory-party/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=related&utm_term=first

Well, you believe men can be women if they want to, so that kind of spoils your cred on other topics.

Waco1947 said:

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historian said:

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Actually, the basis premise of the title should be self evident and totally logical once one examines socialism honestly.

Every time socialism is attempted it involves the heavy hands of government. It can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom. Hence socialism is slavery.

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Trump's rule can only happen with a lot of executive power, and every failure will result in corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is.
I believe the Trump administration is corrupt, and concentrating more authority in the executive branch only increases the potential for abuses of power rather than protecting the liberties of the American people.

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The problem is your point is easily defeated when we ask you whether or not you support health care fully controlled by the government or if you supported Roe. The reason you radical leftists constantly are exposed as hypocrites is that you do not believe what you type: you have no problem with government control you just have a problem with which government is controlling.

Yes I support. Medicare works.

Did I miss a post that said 1947 believed in transgender equality? Or did he blast you or someone else for putrid vitriol?

BTW I am also for Medicare, although I do think the rates should be based on your income and that the income tax ceiling should be eliminated.

BUDOS said:

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Did I miss a post that said 1947 believed in transgender equality? Or did he blast you or someone else for putrid vitriol?

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Not in this thread, but Sam's made statements in line with that comment.

BUDOS said:

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Did I miss a post that said 1947 believed in transgender equality? Or did he blast you or someone else for putrid vitriol?

BTW I am also for Medicare, although I do think the rates should be based on your income and that the income tax ceiling should be eliminated.

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Interesting comment on Medicare, I also agree the rate should depend on income, but actual income - you should not be penalized for closing an IRA on both your taxes and Medicare, because the money you saved is now deemed "income".

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Waco1947 said:

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historian said:

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Actually, the basis premise of the title should be self evident and totally logical once one examines socialism honestly.

Every time socialism is attempted it involves the heavy hands of government. It can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom. Hence socialism is slavery.

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Trump's rule can only happen with a lot of executive power, and every failure will result in corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is.
I believe the Trump administration is corrupt, and concentrating more authority in the executive branch only increases the potential for abuses of power rather than protecting the liberties of the American people.

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The problem is your point is easily defeated when we ask you whether or not you support health care fully controlled by the government or if you supported Roe. The reason you radical leftists constantly are exposed as hypocrites is that you do not believe what you type: you have no problem with government control you just have a problem with which government is controlling.

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insurance companies are making a killing off the government. We need to get personal insurance out of the marketplace. Businesses don't want to be messing with insurance.

Insurance is in the marketplace because there is a demand for it. It will remain as long as there is demand. ECON 101.

However, there is plenty of room for tort reform. Texas did that several years ago.

Oldbear
No argument on either point, especially the second one. I like the idea.

historian said:

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Insurance is in the marketplace because there is a demand for it. It will remain as long as there is demand. ECON 101.

However, there is plenty of room for tort reform. Texas did that several years ago.

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A demand driven by the interests of the ultra-wealthy, fueled by enormous campaign contributions to Republican politicians who are more invested in protecting shareholders than serving stakeholdersthe actual people who pay exorbitant prices in the marketplace.

Waco1947 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Waco1947 said:

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historian said:

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Actually, the basis premise of the title should be self evident and totally logical once one examines socialism honestly.

Every time socialism is attempted it involves the heavy hands of government. It can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom. Hence socialism is slavery.

---

Trump's rule can only happen with a lot of executive power, and every failure will result in corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is.
I believe the Trump administration is corrupt, and concentrating more authority in the executive branch only increases the potential for abuses of power rather than protecting the liberties of the American people.

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The problem is your point is easily defeated when we ask you whether or not you support health care fully controlled by the government or if you supported Roe. The reason you radical leftists constantly are exposed as hypocrites is that you do not believe what you type: you have no problem with government control you just have a problem with which government is controlling.

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insurance companies are making a killing off the government. We need to get personal insurance out of the marketplace. Businesses don't want to be messing with insurance.

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You're problem is that you're a moron and you're too stupid to realize it. The discussion is not about insurance or Medicare. The discussion is you post:
The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is. Slavery is the opposite of freedom can only happen with lots of government power and every failure will result in the corrupt politicians and bureaucrats doubling down to increase their power (they certainly won't willingly give it up). The more powerful govt becomes, the less freedom the people have and the more oppressive it is.

Then you argue that the government should assume more power. Are you actually this stupid? Seriously - how do you function in daily life being this big or a moron? It's not a value judgment on your position it's observing what a moron argues against himself and does not realize it. When I wonder how leftists can act so idiotically, I read your posts and you make it clear why.