muddybrazos said:

---

I like Elons idea of a consumption tax. Make basics like food and medicine non taxable. That way the rich buying all their fancy things pay their "fair share" and poors buying nothing wont have to pay anything.

---

this is my wish as well. Companies only file tax returns.

My point is that it should not be any business of the government's how much you or I or anyone else makes. Social Security and Medicare can be privatized so that people have more control over their own fates, more freedom, & better returns on the investment. The government messes up or destroys everything they touch. By definition, they are parasitic. No one should trust their health, safety, or anything else to such high levels of corruption and incompetence.

No one suggests the states should have their own militaries. That's a silly idea and, frankly, a red herring. And national defense is one of the few primary responsibilities of the federal government. It's even in the constitution.

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it, the 3 new tax brackets would be 39%, 41%, 43%.

---

Those numbers would make every greedy politician & greedy socialist very happy. They also would be destructive.

You are doing a great job demonstrating how terrible the progressive income tax system is!

Porteroso said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Your proposal removes a lot of money from capitalization for more jobs. Low income is much better than no income and dependency upon the state.

---

The national debt reaching a point where our currency becomes devalued will remove a lot of money for jobs. What I have proposed is manageable.

Asking our children to repay 35 trillion is something I consider a non starter, but it does seem exactly what you and the rest of the country are expecting.

---

It will likely take decades to pay off $35 trillion in doubt (now $36 trillion) just like it took decades to accumulate. There is no option other than to have the population to pay it down, including future generations. But this need not be a huge burden on the country if it's done intelligently.

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it, the 3 new tax brackets would be 39%, 41%, 43%.

---

Those numbers would make every greedy politician & greedy socialist very happy. They also would be destructive.

You are doing a great job demonstrating how terrible the progressive income tax system is!

---

Do you have any argument for what you just said, like a rational or logical way to argue against a progressive tax system, or what you think is fairer? Just smoke?

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

https://www.fairtax.org/

This has been figured out some time ago and actually had a bit of momentum but then died in congress.

There is a flat tax on everything one consumes but all american citizens are given a prebate to offset the tax payed on basic food. People here illegally would not get the prebate. Nothing is excluded from the tax. No loopholes. If you spend more, you pay more tax. It would encourage better spending habits as a country. Congress would get to debate on how much to give people as a prebate and it would be adjusted for inflation.

historian said:

---

Except with our progressive income tax system the rich pay a higher percentage of their income. Recently, Elon Musk paid billions in taxes, the highest anyone has ever paid. (Curiously, I saw a headline a couple weeks ago reporting that someone had just paid more.)

The tax code is deliberately complicated & confusing so that sometimes rich corporations can use "loopholes" to pay little if no taxes. They all try to limit their tax burden, naturally, but I don't know how much success they actually have.

---

Depends on what they do. Tax benefits are not there just to be there. They are to get a certain behavior...Trump was king of using tax credits, but he had to develop blighted areas to get them. I am sure Musk pays a lot, but he also gets a lot of breaks doing what the Govt wants done. If someone uses those, more power to them. As long as they follow through on the condition. I view it similar to Student Loans, if you do the Public Service forgiveness you get a break because you are doing what the Nation asked. But you have to do it.

Another reason why income taxes need to go. The government has far too much control over how people live their lives.

historian said:

---

Another reason why income taxes need to go. The government has far too much control over how people live their lives.

---

Sorry if disrespectful, but what world do you guys live in? You all have expectations that are downright unrealistic. You really think they are going to get rid of income tax? The government is not going to have control over your life? You really think there will be an appreciable difference between Trump and Biden or Obama?

We may get a sacrificial lamb at DOJ. Inflation may come down, but will prices? Trump, Musk and Vivek will do well. Buy you guys really think there will be a big shift in levels of Govt? No, it will be about where it is now.

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Your proposal removes a lot of money from capitalization for more jobs. Low income is much better than no income and dependency upon the state.

---

The national debt reaching a point where our currency becomes devalued will remove a lot of money for jobs. What I have proposed is manageable.

Asking our children to repay 35 trillion is something I consider a non starter, but it does seem exactly what you and the rest of the country are expecting.

---

It will likely take decades to pay off $35 trillion in doubt (now $36 trillion) just like it took decades to accumulate. There is no option other than to have the population to pay it down, including future generations. But this need not be a huge burden on the country if it's done intelligently.

---

An interesting question is can the debt ever really be paid off? Our entire monetary system is based on debt issuance creating "money".
The reality with our current system is that we will always be in an endless cycle of revolving debt, and by that, ever increasing at this point. The government finds it easier for their taxpayers to pay the debt obligations to via inflation rather than reign in spending or increased taxes. Effectively, increasing the money supply aka inflation is its own form of tax.

Any "dent" we put in the national debt will be temporary, the forces of debt and for debt are too strong without a drastic change in the system.

Ours debt based on system is truly intriguing. Very difficult to fully grasp for most.

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

Another reason why income taxes need to go. The government has far too much control over how people live their lives.

---

Sorry if disrespectful, but what world do you guys live in? You all have expectations that are downright unrealistic. You really think they are going to get rid of income tax? The government is not going to have control over your life? You really think there will be an appreciable difference between Trump and Biden or Obama?

We may get a sacrificial lamb at DOJ. Inflation may come down, but will prices? Trump, Musk and Vivek will do well. Buy you guys really think there will be a big shift in levels of Govt? No, it will be about where it is now.

---

No I don't expect the income tax to go away. It would require a constitutional amendment and most states have a state income tax. Those legislatures don't be voting to ratify an amendment even if congress passed it overwhelmingly.

My focus was on the ideal: what would work better and be better for the people instead of gif the politicians & bureaucrats.

However, reducing government is definitely possible and a lot easier. It's still very difficult but Trump has a huge mandate. The American people support those efforts & they won't necessarily believe the MSM lies. Let's see how long it lasts.

historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

Another reason why income taxes need to go. The government has far too much control over how people live their lives.

---

Sorry if disrespectful, but what world do you guys live in? You all have expectations that are downright unrealistic. You really think they are going to get rid of income tax? The government is not going to have control over your life? You really think there will be an appreciable difference between Trump and Biden or Obama?

We may get a sacrificial lamb at DOJ. Inflation may come down, but will prices? Trump, Musk and Vivek will do well. Buy you guys really think there will be a big shift in levels of Govt? No, it will be about where it is now.

---

No I don't expect the income tax to go away. It would require a constitutional amendment and most states have a state income tax. Those legislatures don't be voting to ratify an amendment even if congress passed it overwhelmingly.

My focus was on the ideal: what would work better and be better for the people instead of gif the politicians & bureaucrats.

However, reducing government is definitely possible and a lot easier. It's still very difficult but Trump has a huge mandate. The American people support those efforts & they won't necessarily believe the MSM lies. Let's see how long it lasts.

---

He will be able to get some stuff done, temporarily if he spends his time doing Executive Order, restructuring.

The border, fentanyl, inflation, energy, all areas he can get Congress to make long term changes that will be difficult to change. Use the Congress now, do t get caught up in Exec Branch ***** He can do that if they lose Congress in 2 years.

Reducing SSA will do nothing. They will rehire as soon as he is done.

The public is beginning to expect four years of intentional destruction by the Biden administration to be remedied by Trump in a matter of days.

Legacy media will demand perfection within a matter of a few hours.

historian said:

---

---

So... nothing.

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Gonna take more than that to pay this debt off. Need revenue beyond income tax.

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

---

You asked for my solution.

I provided it.

Now you want guarantees.

Go away, once and for all.

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

---

Your tax plan to gain revenue would lose steam in short order as the economy would not sustain it lfor long. As the economy falls, so would revenue. It's just not sustainable as a solution.

Actually, tax cuts done properly are the greatest stimulus to economic growth. When people are allowed to keep more of the money (& are robbed less by govt), they do all kinds of productive things with it that benefit everyone. It has worked multiple times in the past century in the US: 1920s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, & Trump's first term. It's one of many benefits of the free market system. No doubt there are many other examples throughout history in other countries.

historian said:

---

Actually, tax cuts done properly are the greatest stimulus to economic growth. When people are allowed to keep more of the money (& are robbed less by govt), they do all kinds of productive things with it that benefit everyone. It has worked multiple times in the past century in the US: 1920s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, & Trump's first term. It's one of many benefits of the free market system. No doubt there are many other examples throughout history in other countries.

---

Was responding to Porteroso's tax bracket plan. Should have made that clearer.

My bad. I should have realized that.

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

---

You asked for my solution.

I provided it.

Now you want guarantees.

Go away, once and for all.

---

So dumb. I'm asking you if you think your solution has a chance in hell. Of course it doesn't, it us no solution at all, but a dumb idea nobody would take seriously. And even if hell froze over and you got your flat tax, what % would it be?

You can't contribute anything other than telling us how rich you are, and insults.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

---

Your tax plan to gain revenue would lose steam in short order as the economy would not sustain it lfor long. As the economy falls, so would revenue. It's just not sustainable as a solution.

---

My proposed taxes would cause the economy to fail? How do you figure that? Specifically what part?

historian said:

---

Actually, tax cuts done properly are the greatest stimulus to economic growth. When people are allowed to keep more of the money (& are robbed less by govt), they do all kinds of productive things with it that benefit everyone. It has worked multiple times in the past century in the US: 1920s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, & Trump's first term. It's one of many benefits of the free market system. No doubt there are many other examples throughout history in other countries.

---

We are the world's richest country, we do pretty well economically. What would tank that is a devaluation of the dollar in some way or shape.

If you had a plan to tackle the debt, you'd post it, but instead your plan for paying off a debt is to cut taxes and hope the economy booms faster than Congress can spend money. It is just total la la land over here.

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

jbbear said:

---

ScottS said:

---

For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

---

You asked for my solution.

I provided it.

Now you want guarantees.

Go away, once and for all.

---

So dumb. I'm asking you if you think your solution has a chance in hell. Of course it doesn't, it is no solution at all, but a dumb idea nobody would take seriously. And even if hell froze over and you got your flat tax, what % would it be?

---

You ask a question of me; yet answer it yourself to the negative.

Then move on to ask what % the flat tax would be despite previously rejecting the proposal as 'dumb'.

Either you are under the age of 17 or intellectually deficient.

Still wonder who pays your bills as you have made it transparently clear you are incapable of providing for yourself.

In the end, the problems I see are these:

Democrats and Republicans pull between 40 and 55% of the vote every Congressional election. That means any tax or spending plan is going to be a compromise to some degree, although the Democrats vote in unison far more often than the GOP. That alone makes it hard to create a budget that means any kind of fiscal discipline, and the tax code just gets more and more obscure.

Also, don't forget we are living in the says when our own tax money is used to pay lobbyists, who in turn pressure Congress critters to keep the budget porky. Given how those lobbyists promise cushy jobs as lobbyists to the CC's when they leave office, and it's a fool's dream to imagine even half the politicians will put duty to the nation ahead of their bank accounts.

And then there is the media, which hasn't been an honest reporter of news since my father was reading the papers and complaining about the crap that passes for 'journalism'. The one thing you can count on from mass media is that they will shill for more government and more spending.

So to actually address the problem, it's going to take four stages, all of which depend on a leadership making the case to the American people to enough support to keep the corrective going:

Stage One: Flamethrower
I like the DOGE concept, especially the idea of making clear to the bureaucrats that there will be sharp deep cuts to the budget. Put everything on the table, and force everyone to defend their budget. Then you gain support by letting departments keep what they need most, while making clear that if you cannot explain how you will be lean and effective, you will at least cost less to be useless idiots.

Stage Two: No Non-Essential Functions
Companies are backing off DEI because they are learning it does not make a company more diverse or inclusive, but the opposite, and it does nothing at all to help a business succeed. A smart company stays on mission and never forgets its core function. Government needs to do the same, stick to the primary job and stop trying to do more than it's core.

Stage Three: Redesign

Through more than four decades of work, I have often taken assumptions and forced groups to learn new, better ways to do the job, including finding ways to be more effective rather than just throw money at a problem. In three places I was able to significantly improve financial results and in one I had an important role in keeping the company from having to file for bankruptcy. Far too many people in government have no interest in innovation, efficiency, or changing anything from the way they did things forty years ago. Change may need to be forced, but once the team understands how the corrections will help, you can build a nucleus for success, even in government offices.

Stage Four: Commit to Duty
Some people think government employees only care about money and finding ways to spend as much time avoiding work as possible, but there are examples of excellence in various places. Despite the current crap for leadership now, the FBI had a strong and well-deserved reputation for Integrity and commitment to Duty for many years. Law Enforcement and First Responders are well known for their devotion to duty, and we haven't even touched the military. With proper leaders, almost any government office can be reformed to dedicate itself to core principles and serving the public. Make the government actually helpful and everyone wins. What we have now is more than a million Bidens soiling what good might otherwise come from government.

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Actually, tax cuts done properly are the greatest stimulus to economic growth. When people are allowed to keep more of the money (& are robbed less by govt), they do all kinds of productive things with it that benefit everyone. It has worked multiple times in the past century in the US: 1920s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, & Trump's first term. It's one of many benefits of the free market system. No doubt there are many other examples throughout history in other countries.

---

We are the world's richest country, we do pretty well economically. What would tank that is a devaluation of the dollar in some way or shape.

If you had a plan to tackle the debt, you'd post it, but instead your plan for paying off a debt is to cut taxes and hope the economy booms faster than Congress can spend money. It is just total la la land over here.

---

You obviously have not paid attention to what I posted. I gave all kinds of suggestions above and my post on tax cuts was in direct response to someone else's post on taxes. I never suggested that tax cuts alone would solve our problems. Also, expecting economic growth from tax cuts is not just a hope, it's a fact. I cited several specific periods in American history in which it happened.

Like Leftists in politics and the media, your statements are the opposite of correct.

Try reading Milton Friedman, Ludwig von Mises, & Friedrich von Hayek instead of modern Marxists. You will understand economics and reality a lot more and be less likely to post such foolish drivel.

historian said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

historian said:

---

Actually, tax cuts done properly are the greatest stimulus to economic growth. When people are allowed to keep more of the money (& are robbed less by govt), they do all kinds of productive things with it that benefit everyone. It has worked multiple times in the past century in the US: 1920s, 1960s, 1980s, 2000s, & Trump's first term. It's one of many benefits of the free market system. No doubt there are many other examples throughout history in other countries.

---

We are the world's richest country, we do pretty well economically. What would tank that is a devaluation of the dollar in some way or shape.

If you had a plan to tackle the debt, you'd post it, but instead your plan for paying off a debt is to cut taxes and hope the economy booms faster than Congress can spend money. It is just total la la land over here.

---

You obviously have not paid attention to what I posted. I gave all kinds of suggestions above and my post on tax cuts was in direct response to someone else's post on taxes. I never suggested that tax cuts alone would solve our problems. Also, expecting economic growth from tax cuts is not just a hope, it's a fact. I cited several specific periods in American history in which it happened.

Like Leftists in politics and the media, your statements are the opposite of correct.

Try reading Milton Friedman, Ludwig von Mises, & Friedrich von Hayek instead of modern Marxists. You will understand economics and reality a lot more and be less likely to post such foolish drivel.

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I am a Friedman fan and love many of his principles. But to use them as the basis of the National economic system? Especially now after the debt is blown up and the social safety net is so well established? I wonder if he would even recommend going forward with them today? Or if Viveks cut 50% of Govt is valid? After all, according to the Friedman Doctrine, business is to make money, not social. Leave social to Government. Now we are saying cut social from Govt.

I'm talking about capitalism in general.

Government needs to be out of the economy as possible. Ideally social would also be in private hands, mainly through charities. Before the explosion of the federal government (& the states) that was the norm and it worked reasonably well. Obviously, that's a long term goal & not short term. The same with radical tax reform. The focus now needs to be to stop the growth of government and work towards balancing the federal budget ASAP. Reducing the federal bureaucracy to constitutional levels, including the 10th amendment, would ho a long way.

Adding $1 trillion in debt every 100 days is clearly unsustainable. That Congress allowed it to get this bad is the strongest argument for term limits.

Porteroso said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Porteroso said:

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KaiBear said:

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Porteroso said:

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KaiBear said:

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Porteroso said:

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nein51 said:

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Porteroso said:

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historian said:

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Porteroso said:

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jbbear said:

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ScottS said:

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For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

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The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

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They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

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That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

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It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

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So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

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In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

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This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

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Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

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The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

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Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

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Your tax plan to gain revenue would lose steam in short order as the economy would not sustain it lfor long. As the economy falls, so would revenue. It's just not sustainable as a solution.

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My proposed taxes would cause the economy to fail? How do you figure that? Specifically what part?

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Economy fail? Where did you get that?
The economy would not be able to increase revenues to the government for long with high tax rates. High tax rates pull capital from the economy and slow economic growth. Higher taxes would only work short term sapping recent growth, and not long enough to get the debt substantially down. Revenues would stall.
Growth is needed along with spending freeze/cuts. Also, a simpler tax system costs much less to oversee and comply with - fewer accountant and lawyer costs to the public and the government.

KaiBear said:

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Porteroso said:

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KaiBear said:

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Porteroso said:

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KaiBear said:

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Porteroso said:

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KaiBear said:

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Porteroso said:

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nein51 said:

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Porteroso said:

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historian said:

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Porteroso said:

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jbbear said:

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ScottS said:

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For years we've heard the left politicians say the rich don't pay their fair share. Now you have Hunter not paying over $1M in taxes and pardoned so he doesn't have to pay. Wouldn't this be an example of the rich not paying their fair share??? How do the lefties on this board, who clearly voted for Biden, explain this????

---

The same way Dumbocrats fail to realize the top 10% earners pay the VAST majority of our federal taxes. Around 40% don't pay any federal taxes of any kind. But they can't spend us into oblivion unless they can convince their godless voters to increase taxes at all times.

---

They actually know, for the most part, that the upper class contributes the most. What they want is additional tax brackets, because making 5 million a year is different from making 5 billion a year, and nobody truly needs 5 billion. And it is a fair point, that someone making even 500 million a year is profiting off of many others, making much less money. Nobody making 50m is doing it with their own 2 hands.

I support a progressive tax system, and not only would I let the tax cuts expire in 2025, I'd also created 3 or 4 new tax brackets at 15m, 50m, 100m, and 250m. Conservatives seem to not understand basic accounting. Revenue needs to exceed spending in order to make a dent in 30 trillion dollars of debt.

---

That's entirely the wrong way of thinking. No one has any right to say how much someone else needs or how much is too much for someone else. It's quite literally none of my business how much money you make or how you use it. The only exceptions is that crimes must be punished & politicians should be punished didn't more if they violate the public trust & abuse their power (bribery, extortion, kickbacks, etc).

This entire discussion demonstrates the wisdom of the Founding Fathers Hefner they placed a ban on income taxes in the original constitution. All they do is make it easier for a government to rob the people, makes government richer & more powerful, and thus leads to more corruption & tyranny. Nothing good comes from it.

Anyone who truly wants freedom should prioritize the repeal of the 16th amendment.

---

It is none of your business how much I make, but it sure is the IRS's, and the government's. Of course this is just my opinion, only worth 1/330,000,000, as is yours, but you are entirely wrong. Your logic leads to the conclusion of a flat tax rate, which is absolutely, undeniably, backwards. Elon Musk should not pay the same tax rate as a single mother who has trouble feeding her children.

I am a big proponent of limiting the power of the federal government, and giving power back to the states, but there are certain obligations the federal government has now, that it did not have in the 1770s.

Anyone wanting to go back to that structure is simply ignorant of reality. There is no responsible way to end social security, end medicare/medicaid, or make all 50 states responsible for their own armed forces. And it would be dumb to try. Maybe social security could be phased out, but that is the only large expense that could be.

A progressive federal income tax is really the best solution, and conveniently, what we have. Once you accept that reality, the idea that billionaires should pay the sane rate as measly millionaires becomes silly.

---

So what is Elons fair share?

What % should he pay?

---

In my mind, with hardly any thought into it

---

This adequately describes how you live your entire life.

Regardless of the subject, regardless of the realities involved.

Still wonder who continues to provide your bubble.

---

Do you have any idea how to solve the National debt crisis? Or are you in the la la zone of let's cut taxes more!

---

The obvious answer is to cut spending and impose a flat tax.

---

Do you think that is realistic? Could you get Congress to do it? And what flat tax would you impose?

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You asked for my solution.

I provided it.

Now you want guarantees.

Go away, once and for all.

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So dumb. I'm asking you if you think your solution has a chance in hell. Of course it doesn't, it is no solution at all, but a dumb idea nobody would take seriously. And even if hell froze over and you got your flat tax, what % would it be?

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You ask a question of me; yet answer it yourself to the negative.

Then move on to ask what % the flat tax would be despite previously rejecting the proposal as 'dumb'.

Either you are under the age of 17 or intellectually deficient.

Still wonder who pays your bills as you have made it transparently clear you are incapable of providing for yourself.

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Do you have anything to contribute or not? How would you convince anyone to implement a flat tax? Forget what %. Are you able to post an answer, or just insults?